Music and Why It's Haram *please read

[Husayni]

Salam Alaikum,

You know what pains me? When I hear these words from a supposedly believer of Allah, Muhammad wa Ale Muhammad: "I can listen to music that doesn't have love in it other than that it's all fine, or I can listen to music with no words but other than that it's fine! Music helps me relax and focus"

The reason music is forbidden is yes it diverts you from Allah and religion, but why? Not only because it has bad lyrics, or makes you dance etc;

I know a lot of people don't like reading articles but I'll have to say this is probably one of the most helpful short articles for modern day problems. (Written by respected scholar Sayed Mahdi Al-Modarresi) He describes music as an addictive drug, and all I can tell you is that it's a must read.

http://ahlulbayt.tv/blog/music-an-addictive-drug/

Edited December 14, 2017 by Hussaini624

[ema]

Could you tell me proofs of that Music is haram according to Quran or hadith, exactly? As matter of fact, Music and Dance are proven to prevent dementia and improve memory according to researches.

http://neuro.hms.harvard.edu/harvard-mahoney-neuroscience-institute/brain-newsletter/and-brain-series/dancing-and-brain

Whenever certain understandings from hadith or Quran harm our health or mind, I would like to examine and analyze where such teaching came from.

There is music therapy for autistic children. Music encourages many people going through difficult times. Dancing is good for health and mind. There are bad kind of music and dance but that should not be the reason to ban all of them. There are bad sites on internet, that means internet should be banned altogether?

Extremism will always backfire.

[Sumerian]

34 minutes ago, ema said:

Could you tell me proofs of that Music is haram according to Quran or hadith, exactly? As matter of fact, Music and Dance are proven to prevent dementia and improve memory according to researches.

http://neuro.hms.harvard.edu/harvard-mahoney-neuroscience-institute/brain-newsletter/and-brain-series/dancing-and-brain

Whenever certain understandings from hadith or Quran harm our health or mind, I would like to examine and analyze where such teaching came from.

There is music therapy for autistic children. Music encourages many people going through difficult times. Dancing is good for health and mind. There are bad kind of music and dance but that should not be the reason to ban all of them. There are bad sites on internet, that means internet should be banned altogether?

Extremism will always backfire.

Al-Salamu Alaykum sister.

I don't know the exact reason as to why it is prohibited, at least on a regulated level, but this link may be helpful as it includes hadiths regarding music;

https://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-1-ayatullah-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi/fifteenth-greater-sin-music

[ali_fatheroforphans]

Great article!

Call me radical or an extremist - well I know for a fact that I'm never ever ever listening to music again. 

What scares me is how so many Muslims listen to music more than the Quran. People have memorized more music lyrics than Quranic verses. There comes a point where Quran doesn't touch us anymore, it doesn't send shivers down our spine. Quran passes from one ear to another without finding a place in our heart.

On the day of judgment I won't be surprised if Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) complains to Allah as in why we turned to music when we had the Quran. 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by ali_fatheroforphans

[Husayni]

1 hour ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Great article!

Call me radical or an extremist - well I know for a fact that I'm never ever ever listening to music again. 

What scares me is how so many Muslims listen to music more than the Quran. People have memorized more music lyrics than Quranic verses. There comes a point where Quran doesn't touch us anymore, it doesn't send shivers down our spine. Quran passes from one ear to another without finding a place in our heart.

On the day of judgment I won't be surprised if Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) complains to Allah as in why we turned to music when we had the Quran. 

 

 

I completely agree with you bro. The thing about Quran is that it's a miracle in which to this day has many treasures in it that are overlooked.

I do not follow Ibn Umar ibn al-Khattab, but in a Sunni hadith he shows more adab than most Shiite Muslims today;

It was narrated that Naafi‘, the freed slave of Ibn ‘Umar, said: Ibn ‘Umar heard the sound of a flute and he put his fingers in his ears and turned  his mount away from the road and said to me: O Naafi‘, can you hear anything? I said: Yes. And he carried on until I said: No. Then he took his fingers out of his ears, brought his mount back to the road and said: I saw the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him and his progeny) when he heard the sound of a flute and did something like this.

Narrated by Abu Dawood (4924); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Tahreem Alaat at-Tarb (p. 116)

We don't necessarily need to plug our ears, but if he is telling the truth then music was certainly disliked by the prophet (s)

[Ron_Burgundy]

4 hours ago, ema said:

Could you tell me proofs of that Music is haram according to Quran or hadith, exactly? As matter of fact, Music and Dance are proven to prevent dementia and improve memory according to researches.

And yes, Marijuana isn't harmful either :D. Please

[Husayni]

Salam sister @ema,

I would like to mention that not listening to music is not extremism. Before I joined Shiachat (maybe around 10 months ago) my faith was shaking and I did listen to music occasionally, I used to think that music is helpful, all that stuff etc. Ever since I stopped it has made my love to Allah much more sincere than before, and I became more social, my prayers felt like true worship, etc. If you haven't read the link already, I suggest you do as it's an amazing read. I will post it here if the link is unavailable. You said that you will take evidence, but you prefer a rational point of view, correct? Here is a point of view from Sayed Mahdi Modaressi.

"I received a question from a woman a while ago about Music. I thought it was worth sharing the answer on this blog:

Question:

Salam,
I am addicted to music because listening to music makes me happy and takes my mind off problems in my life. I want to stop listening to music and want to concentrate on my faith and education; I want to spend my time reciting the Quran and reading books instead. What advice would you give me?

Answer:

Music may make you "happy" and "take your mind off your problems" in the short run. I agree. In fact, if a short term euphoric sensation is what you're looking for, there are many more options including drugs, alcohol, and gambling! People drink bitter spirits and tolerate the nasty acidic burn of alcohol not for the taste (it is, after all, a poison) but for their intoxicating quality in order to distract them from the daily toils and personal problems. In his book "Civilization and its Discontents" Sigmund Freud actually asserts that the best means of subduing unhappiness and the most effective style of human adaptation used to secure pleasure from the world while also trying to avoid or limit suffering, is the consumption of alcohol! Surely as Muslims, indeed as rational human beings, we can't take these options seriously given the devastating side-effects they possess.

Music is also a drug. An odorless, colorless, and thanks to the internet, largely free drug which makes you feel good (unless you're a fan of Marylin Manson), and then leaves you with nothing but more depression and a sense of emptiness. As soon as you're out of the concert hall, or you drop that iPod, you go back to the bitter reality that is your life and, because you can't deal with that, you go back to music for comfort and distraction. While you're in your little world consumed by music, Apple celebrates the 10 billionth song downloaded from iTunes at 99 cents a pop. While we feed our addiction, Steve Jobs is laughing all the way to the bank!.

So what is the first side effect of this drug; addiction. Because it creates a false euphoria, you keep going back for another fix. It completely takes over your mind and affects your judgment. The British neurologist Oliver Sacks says: "music can involve many different parts of the brain, special parts for the response to pitch, and to frequency, and to timbre, and to rhythm, and to melodic contour, and to harmonic and everything else" thus, completely occuping the brain. That is why you'll notice that those addicted to music will often also refuse Hijab. They easily socialize with people of the opposite sex and may engage in illicit relationships.

Picture this: a pious, dignified, veiled Muslim woman jumping up and down with the tunes of a pop music concert while screaming her lungs out singing the lyrics. What's wrong with this picture? It just doesn't happen! You simply cannot mix chastity and piety with music, not even conceptually as you see from this illustration. This is why Islam closes the door shut to the range of possible detrimental pandemics by banning music (with very limited exceptions).

The Holy Prophet outlines this part of his mission in the following narration:
‎‫الله عز وجل بعثني رحمة وهدى للعالمين وأمرني أن أمحق المعازف والخمور والأوثان التي كانت تعبد في الجاهلية‬

The Prophet says: "Allah the exalted sent me as a mercy to the worlds and commanded me to obliterate musical instruments as well as intoxicating drinks and idols that were worshiped in the era of ignorance"

This Hadeeth suggests that one of the main purposes for the final revelation is the banning of music, following spreading mercy to all of mankind! Notice, also, how the narration collectively refers to the "idols that were worshiped". Could this be a reference to Music? Perhaps so, in the sense that it is, indeed, an idol for the modern era of ignorance as it was a false idol in the ancient era as well.

The argument that music also has therapeutic benefits is irrelevant, because much like alcohol, it has been proven that it influences humans both in good and bad ways. However, in our view, the harms outweigh the benefits. Here's where it get a bit technical, but also quite interesting: Studies have shown that music affects the amplitude and frequency of brain waves, which can be measured by an electro-encephalogram. Music also affects breathing rate and electrical resistance of the skin. It has been observed to cause the pupils to dilate, increase blood pressure, and increase the heart rate.

Dr. Ballam states: "The human mind shuts down after three or four repetitions of a rhythm, or a melody, or a harmonic progression." (Ballam, Michael. Music and the Mind, pp 1-8.). Furthermore, excessive repetition causes people to release control of their thoughts. Rhythmic repetition is used by people who are trying to push certain ethics in their music.

An Australian physician and psychiatrist, Dr. John Diamond, found a direct link between muscle strength/weakness and music. He discovered that all of the muscles in the entire body go weak when subjected to the "stopped anapestic beat" of music from hard rock musicians, including Led Zeppelin, Alice Cooper, Queen, The Doors, Janis Joplin, Bachman – Turner Overdrive, and The Band. Dr. Diamond found another effect of the anapestic beat. He called it a "switching" of the brain. Dr. Diamond said this switching occurs when the actual symmetry between both of the cerebral hemispheres is destroyed causing alarm in the body along with lessened work performance, learning and behavior problems in children, and a "general malaise in adults." In addition to harmful, irregular beats in rock music, shrill frequencies prove to also be harmful to the body. Bob Larson, a Christian minister and former rock musician, remembers that in the 70′s teens would bring raw eggs to a rock concert and put them on the front of the stage. The eggs would be hard boiled by the music before the end of the concert and could be eaten. Dr. Earl W. Flosdorf and Dr. Leslie A. Chambers showed that proteins in a liquid medium were coagulated when subjected to piercing high-pitched sounds

I hope you can be brave enough to close that door shut by making the commitment today that music will no longer be a part of your life and that you will not be enslaved by its lure.

Wassalam

Written By: Sayed Mahdi Al-Modarresi"

Edited December 14, 2017 by Hussaini624

[ema]

Yes, It is fine with me for someone deciding never to listen music in his life, or chose to do things or avoid as he understood for his life.

However, problem comes when someone forces others his/her understanding of Quran or hadith. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam all type of music is not haram

The type of music is haram is just uses for entertainment  & cause we ignore Allah.

 

[Shkf.ma]

Salam 

Your topic is very general. And music is wide. In my opinion some are Haram and some are not Haram. 

Diagnosis Haram music and others depends on the person. 

[ali_fatheroforphans]

7 hours ago, ema said:

problem comes when someone forces others his/her understanding of Quran or hadith.

Majority of the scholars have made it clear that music is harram in general with exceptional cases. 

I don't think it is just our view or understanding of the Quran. Also, if we know for a fact that it is harram, we do  have a right to warn people of the potential dangers associated with it.

[Husayni]

2 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Majority of the scholars have made it clear that music is harram in general with exceptional cases. 

I don't think it is just our view or understanding of the Quran. Also, if we know for a fact that it is harram, we do  have a right to warn people of the potential dangers associated with it.

Correct; and according to Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (a), that "idle talks" in the quran refers to music.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Hussaini624

[ema]

Being majority is not any proof of fact or truth by itself. If majority is always right, then Sunni would be the right one from that logic.

Understandings or beliefs by the majority change over time. 

So it is individual choice to follow understanding of the majority, or the most powerful of time, or his own reasoning.

8 hours ago, Hussaini624 said:

according to Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (a), that "idle talks" in the quran refers to music.

I personally understand "Idle talks" as fighting words and gossiping other people's business.

If you put all music under "idle talks" category but not including movies, animations, novels, cartoons, comedies and chatting, you are not making sense.

Maybe he (if he was heard correctly what he meant) referred to the music of that time that he happened to heard ?

It is hard to assess the circumstances surrounding the Imam's word saying about music. 

Did he or any imams ever said that understandings derived from his words or majority of certain selected group's view must be forced on people?

It is important to respect other people's right to decide on his own, when not found in MuHkam verse.

 

 

[ali_fatheroforphans]

49 minutes ago, ema said:

So it is individual choice to follow understanding of the majority, or the most powerful of time, or his own reasoning.

I don't agree. We need to look up to marjas who have spent their whole life studying traditions. It is very clear that both Shias and Sunnis have numerous traditions regarding how music is harram. In that case we can make so many things lawful for ourselves. We have to take precaution against music and not disregard every tradition based on our limited knowledge.

Here are a couple:

Imam Ja’far As-Sadiq (a.s.) said: "Music is the nest of hypocrisy."

"Music is the worst of the sounds."

Imam Ja’far As-Sadiq (a.s.) said: The place where music is performed, Allah does not look at its participants (with mercy).

Also the Imam (a.s.) said: "Listening to music and vain (sounds) grows hypocrisy as the water grows the plants.

Hassan (a companion of Imam Ja’far As-Sadiq a.s.) said: There was a man in my neighbourhood who had singing girls and he always remained immersed in music and dance. When I went to W.C., I used to stay a bit longer (to listen to those sounds). When I went to Imam Ja’far As-Sadiq (a.s.), he told me: O Hasan, Verily the ear, and the eye and the heart, all of them will be asked. The ear and what it listened to, the eye and what it looked at and the heart and what it intended."

Hasan says: When I heard that Ayat of the Qur’an, it was as though I had never heard it before. Then I repented (from my sin of listening to music) and made a convent with Allah not to do it again.

The Imam (a.s.) said: "Stand up have bath and pray to Allah as much as you wish. How bad would have been your position if you had died with this habit. Repent before Allah and ask His forgiveness for every evil because Allah does not dislike but evil, leaves evil for evil people because for everything are its people.
In a list of major sins which he sent to Caliph Mamun Rashid, Imam Ali Ar-Ridha (a.s.) mentioned the participation in the musical gatherings.

For more info read this: https://www.al-islam.org/music-and-its-effects-a-h-sheriff/some-traditions-music

Edited December 16, 2017 by ali_fatheroforphans

[ema]

Is there any references in shia hadith so we can locate the source to examine?

[Abu Hadi]

 

 If you say music is haram, first you must define what you mean by 'music'. I will attempt to do this, but it is not easy. 

In English, the definition of the word music, as it is understood commonly, is a series of sounds that are put together in a pattern which is pleasing to the listener. 

Now going by that definition, Recitation of the Quran, Nasheed, etc, things which are clearly not haram would be 'music' by this definition. 

So when you say 'music' is haram, I am pretty sure you are not using this definition of 'music'

There are different definitions of 'music' that are used in Islam. 

At the same time, the word used for music in hadith is 'ghina', an arabic word, which has a different 

meaning than the word 'music' in English. If you're looking for a term which will reconcile the word 'music' 

in English and the word 'ghina' in Arabic, I am not aware of one. There are explanations, which are as follows. 

Here is an article put together by the Office of the Late Ayatollah Sayyid Fadlallah(ra) which defines 'music' 

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/Editorials/Shariah_Music.htm

Here is a definition, according to Ayatollah Sayyid Sistani(ha)

https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01246/

In short, I think we should recognize that definitions of music are different. As long as you stay away from music which is defined as haram by your marjaa, you are ok. This issue is a clear illustration of why we need a marjaa. Also, we need to use our own wisdom and common sense. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Abu Hadi

[monad]

Let us do some simple analysis. In Religion, anything that takes man away from God or practice of the path towards God is generally labelled as haram from an ethical perspective.

A) None of the narrations state it is haram, where and why was this word added. Perhaps due to the influx of globalisation and how music has a further reach of influence.

B) The rational condition is that does X have Value, and whether that Value has any instrinctive value.  Think of this from a daily business perspective or wanting from gardening. If you plant a seed and use polluted water, would it grow well compared to that has been nurtured properly?. Here we are looking at statistics, what are the chances of good growth. One would have to go with the clean source rather then the dirty. Music is considered vain or useless, as it distracts the mind from what is useful, and that is reason. The old saying reason is the highest form of virtue.

Narrations are outlining something very simple. The main objective is to separate the usless timewasters from the progressive ones.

said, ‘God’s Prophet (MGB) said, Do not play them.’ I asked, ‘What about listening to songs?’ He (MGB) said, ‘There is no use in it. Do not listen to them.’ I asked, ‘What about drinking date wine?’ He (MGB) replied, ‘God’s Prophet (MGB) has forbidden drinking any intoxicator. All that is intoxicating is forbidden.’

Input vs output.

Either you are a silicon valley investor making millions or billions or someone who goes into a casino.

Either you have a bath or stay dirty.

Either you read many different books to gain knowledge or read junk.

From these simple examples which one would be benefical in the long run.

Dancing isnt any different from running. It is movement that creates a healthy mind and body.

Let us understand the benefits of X vs Y.

Emotion vs Reason

Music is emotion

Social media is emotion

Religion is sold via emotion when it is based on reason.

Science is constructed via emotion but claims to be rational, but it does have reason, but it sells it via emotion.

Music benefits whom?

The maker, creator, the seller. = Profit in monetary value.

The listener = gives away time, thinking, reason, money.

What is more profitable?.

[ema]

 

15 hours ago, monad said:

The maker, creator, the seller. = Profit in monetary value.

The listener = gives away time, thinking, reason, money.

I guess monad is not aware of "growing evidence that listening to music help stimulate seemingly lost memories and even help maintain some cognitive functioning."

Please see the Harvard article I posted earlier, and more links posted below.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/music-and-health

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/music-can-boost-memory-and-mood

Music helps to prevent dementia and even helps people with Alzheimer’s Disease by enhancing memories.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2914108/

Edited December 17, 2017 by ema

[ema]

Some people reported here that they are afraid of losing faith by listening to music. 

What kind of weak faith they got? 

It is important to review and assess why they got such shaky weak faith to begin with.

[ali_fatheroforphans]

33 minutes ago, ema said:

Some people reported here that they are afraid of losing faith by listening to music

Yeah people are also afraid of going to night clubs because they will lose their faith - which doesn't mean going to night clubs is fine.

34 minutes ago, ema said:

What kind of weak faith they got?

Yeah people who don't go to night club have very weak faith and no foundation.

34 minutes ago, ema said:

It is important to review and assess why they got such shaky weak faith to begin with.

Yeah, all the scholars who refuse to go to night clubs need to reassess their faith to begin with.

[ali_fatheroforphans]

22 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

when you say 'music' is haram, 

Let me clarify what I mean by music. 

I mean majority of the songs that are on the billboard top 100 chart. All the mainstream songs that you hear at shopping malls, cafes, radio, gym etc. These songs are all nothing but harram in my opinion. 

I am not referring to songs about birds flying, nature, cats etc.. you can discuss the legal aspects of whether these songs are permissible all day long, but no one really listens to them.

I am only raising my concerns in this thread because I am genuinely concerned for the misguided youth. I am not trying to be a harram police or offend the view of anyone.

So many youth start to justify the disgusting songs they listen to, saying how it doesn't affect their faith - therefore it is halal. This comes from my own siblings.

If you refer to music with no profanity, abuse, sexual references etc. then maybe we can have a look and see if it fits the 'halal category'.

However generally,  99.99% of all mainstream music today is harram.

 

 

[hasanhh]

.

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 4:02 AM, ema said:

Yes, It is fine with me for someone deciding never to listen music in his life, or chose to do things or avoid as he understood for his life.

However, problem comes when someone forces others his/her understanding of Quran or hadith. 

Uhty, the purpose and advantage of our scholars are to have men and women around who have studied and are aware of whatever does and does not apply from Quran and hadith.

19 hours ago, monad said:

Let us do some simple analysis. In Religion, anything that takes man away from God or practice of the path towards God is generally labelled as haram from an ethical perspective.

A) None of the narrations state it is haram, where and why was this word added. Perhaps due to the influx of globalisation and how music has a further reach of influence.

B) The rational condition is that does X have Value, and whether that Value has any instrinctive value.  Think of this from a daily business perspective or wanting from gardening. If you plant a seed and use polluted water, would it grow well compared to that has been nurtured properly?. Here we are looking at statistics, what are the chances of good growth. One would have to go with the clean source rather then the dirty. Music is considered vain or useless, as it distracts the mind from what is useful, and that is reason. The old saying reason is the highest form of virtue.

"l could just scream."   ,Bro, The Prophet-Nabi s.a.w.s. did not come in the Age of Reason a millennium later. We cannot apply the secular to the din. We can apply what is revealed (tri-literal waw-ha-ya) to the secular and lay, but not the vice-versa.

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 1:43 PM, Hussaini624 said:

Correct; and according to Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (a), that "idle talks" in the quran refers to music.

Look up Ayat Luqman:6 .   The tri-literal used, ha-dal-tha , is used twice and is more properly rendered "idly converse" as in talking in ignorant and or mischievous sentences. We can include poems.  Where is the connection to music?

[hasanhh]

Oh, and this is a provocative, in a way; Today, 17Dec is Beethoven's baptismal day in 1770 (no birth date known).

  Hey, l am a little politically incorrect.

[monad]

5 hours ago, ema said:

I guess monad is not aware of "growing evidence that listening to music help stimulate seemingly lost memories and even help maintain some cognitive functioning."

Please see the Harvard article I posted earlier, and more links posted below.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/music-and-health

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/music-can-boost-memory-and-mood

Music helps to prevent dementia and even helps people with Alzheimer’s Disease by enhancing memories.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2914108/

Ema -Yes, I have read such articles, however you are mistaking music with sound or melody. These articles are regarding research on stimulating function of damaged brains, unless one considers the percentage of damaged brains in the human race to be very high.

Do re read my post without that childlike emotion. I am not taking away your toys from you. My post is about the use of X and the usage of X per day to release endorphines. Here ( the daily usage + endorphine = addiction. ). As others have explained, we are looking at the variable types of music and the impact they have, generally the larger production of music today is based at corruption or overt sexual stimulation and not professing ideology.

The main words are usage - stimulate - entertainment.

What is it stimulating and while being in that mode what are you entertaining the mind with. I am sure in hard times humans use it to relax or distract, that is fine, but consider it from the daily usage. Does one promote reason, aka thinking or promote distraction.

1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

"l could just scream."   ,Bro, The Prophet-Nabi s.a.w.s. did not come in the Age of Reason a millennium later. We cannot apply the secular to the din. We can apply what is revealed (tri-literal waw-ha-ya) to the secular and lay, but not the vice-versa.

Bro I do not follow. The concept of virtue is universal, although the west did take it from the greeks, but I am sure it is labelled as something else in Islam. Aql?

Edited December 17, 2017 by monad

[Abu Hadi]

5 hours ago, ema said:

Some people reported here that they are afraid of losing faith by listening to music. 

What kind of weak faith they got? 

It is important to review and assess why they got such shaky weak faith to begin with.

Music, and sound in general affect different people in different ways. 

There is lots of research into the subject of neuro plasticity (brain research that has to do with how the brain changes over time in response to certain stimulus)

If you grow up in an environment where music is not around much, or at least is not played often in your house, your brain will organize itself in a way where when you hear sounds associated with music or pop music, your brain will not assign those sounds as 'important' and thus it will be easy for you to ignore them. 

Many muslims grow up in such environments, I am assuming, and so their brains work that way. 

There are others (many whom won't admit it ) who grow up in environments where music is always being played, thus their brains form differently.

If a stimulus is constantly present in an environment, our brains assign it a greater importance and thus we are more affected by it. 

The greatest proof for this, which most people will understand, is language. 

If you grow up in a house where Urdu is spoken, your brain is 'tuned' to the sounds associated with Urdu, so when you hear those sounds anywhere in the environment

your brain will 'tag' those sounds as important and your brain will start processing those sounds and translating them into units of meaning, words, in your brain and will

put together those units of meaning into larger units of meaning (how someone is feeling, what they are trying to communicate to you, etc)

If you don't grow up in this type of house, your brain will not process those sounds in the same way. You will tag them as 'not important'

You will be able to hear them, just like everyone else, but your brain will not process them. 

(On a side note, it has always been so funny to me how when English speaking people encounter a non English speaking person, they will try to

talk louder to the non English speaking person, thinking that it is the volume of their speaking that is the issue, when in fact, it is the fact that the

other person's brain cannot process the sounds they are making)

That is why we need to be sensitive to the fact that people grow up in different environments, and their brains are 'tuned' in different ways. 

At the same time, it is not a 'done deal' that people who grow up in environments where music is constantly played cannot stop listening to it. 

They can, but it is a long and difficult process and requires a great deal of effort and energy to stop. 

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by Abu Hadi

[Abu Nur]

Shi'at of Al Husain (as) never listen Music that Yazid (la) enjoyed to listen everyday.

[hasanhh]

24 minutes ago, monad said:

...

Bro I do not follow. The concept of virtue is universal, although the west did take it from the greeks, but I am sure it is labelled as something else in Islam. Aql?

ln other words, we cannot use secular principles in defining what is revealed or how it is applied.  Quran reveals it is self-explaining, most things being internally defined.

[monad]

14 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Shi'at of Al Husain (as) never listen Music that Yazid (la) enjoyed to listen everyday

Guess you did not read my post. There are many tyrannts and non tyrants who listened to various types of music.

 

13 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

ln other words, we cannot use secular principles in defining what is revealed or how it is applied.  Quran reveals it is self-explaining, most things being internally defined.

Well, I'd rather think before following.

Edited December 17, 2017 by monad

[hasanhh]

20 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

Music, and sound in general affect different people in different ways. 

There is ...

That is why we need to be sensitive to the fact that people grow up in different environments, and their brains are 'tuned' in different ways. 

At the same time, it is not a 'done deal' that people who grow up in environments where music is constantly played cannot stop listening to it. 

They can, but it is a long and difficult process and requires a great deal of effort and energy to stop. 

 

Note: back in the 80s l believe it was, it was discovered that professional musicians processed music in the language centers of the brain.

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

Have people not read Edward Said's story and how he used music to attack western hypocrisy?

[hasanhh]

19 minutes ago, monad said:

Guess you did not read my post.

 

Well, I'd rather think before following.

Reflected quip:  "Well, you'd better read up on Quran." inshallah.

l am not trying to be belligerent but l cannot allow such a dismissal of what Quran reveals.

The ayn qaf lam tri-literal occurs 49 times in Quran, according to the notes l use.

l'II cite two ayats about using Reason, 2:242 and 67:10.

Nobody does themselves any good by "blind faith". We are supposed to think through Quran as we re-read through it.

[hasanhh]

3 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Have people not read Edward Said's story and how he used music to attack western hypocrisy?

l read a couple of things from this late author, but nothing about music that l remember.

[Abu Nur]

Quote

Guess you did not read my post. There are many tyrannts and non tyrants who listened to various types of music.

Sorry I did not. I derived my statement from the following hadith:

Imam `Ali ar-Rida [a] said,

“The first person for whom beer was prepared in Islam in Syria was Yazid b. Mu`awiya [l]. He was sitting at a table spread with the head of al-Husayn [a] when they brought him beer.

He drank it and had his companions drink from it, saying, ‘Drink it, for this is a blessed drink. If it were not blessed, we would not have been the first ones to drink it with the head of our enemy in front of us, eating at our table spread with quiet of mind and peace at heart.’

Whoever is a follower (Shi`a) of us should abstain from drinking beer because it is the drink of our enemies. Whoever does not abstain is not one of our followers.

My forefathers narrate from `Ali b. Abi Talib (as) that the Messenger of Allah (saws) said, ‘Do not follow what our enemies follow. Should you do so, you are one of our enemies just as they are.’”

دثنا تميم بن عبد الله بن تميم القرشي رضي الله عنه قال حدثنا أبي عن أحمد بن علي الأنصاري عن عبد السلام بن صالح الهروي قال سمعت أبا الحسن علي بن موسى الرضا (ع) يقول أول من اتخذ له الفقاع في الإسلام بالشام يزيد بن معاوية لعنه الله فأحضر و هو على المائدة و قد نصبها على رأس الحسين (ع) فجعل يشربه و يسقي أصحابه و يقول لعنه الله اشربوا فهذا شراب مبارك و لو لم يكن من بركته إلا أنا أول ما تناولناه و رأس عدونا بين أيدينا و مائدتنا منصوبة عليه و نحن نأكله و نفوسنا ساكنة و قلوبنا مطمئنة فمن كان من شيعتنا فليتورع عن شرب الفقاع فإنه من شراب أعدائنا فإن لم يفعل فليس منا و لقد حدثني أبي عن أبيه عن آبائه عن علي بن أبي طالب (ع) قال قال رسول الله (ص) لا تلبسوا لباس أعدائي و لا تطعموا مطاعم أعدائي و لا تسلكوا مسالك أعدائي فتكونوا أعدائي كما هم أعدائي .

(`Uyoon Akhbar ar-Rida)

Edited December 17, 2017 by Dhulfikar

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

l read a couple of things from this late author, but nothing about music that l remember.

Yes, a tactic done by the elites so that no one would learn from his musical methods to create a political discourse. Just like what's been done to art throughout the ages. As soon as a new art movement is established, the system finds a way to co-opt it so that it would devalue or veil what it is trying to tell people.

The elite likes of Greenberg did this to the art world so that they could suppress any political value to art. It is unfortunate that nowadays we look at modern art from a aesthetic view and say, "THIS IS NOT ART!". That is exactly what Greenberg and his buddies wanted, art forms that don't allow the public to think. If we look at the history of art during the 19th century, we begin to understand how art inspired and caused revolutions throughout Europe. It also allowed the Americans to occupy land (it was used as a propaganda method. If you study American Landscape painting you realise some horrifying methods were used by the elites to steal more land from the natives). But unfortunately, the idea of art to the layman has been misconstrued.

It is sad that we don't realise there are many weapons we could use to make people think. Music, Art, science, and so many more.

[hasanhh]

22 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Yes, a tactic done by the elites so that no one would learn from his musical methods to create a political discourse. Just like what's been done to art throughout the ages. As soon as a new art movement is established, the system finds a way to co-opt it so that it would devalue or veil what it is trying to tell people.

The elite likes of Greenberg did this to the art world so that they could suppress any political value to art. It is unfortunate that nowadays we look at modern art from a aesthetic view and say, "THIS IS NOT ART!". That is exactly what Greenberg and his buddies wanted, art forms that don't allow the public to think. If we look at the history of art during the 19th century, we begin to understand how art inspired and caused revolutions throughout Europe. It also allowed the Americans to occupy land (it was used as a propaganda method. If you study American Landscape painting you realise some horrifying methods were used by the elites to steal more land from the natives). But unfortunately, the idea of art to the layman has been misconstrued.

It is sad that we don't realise there are many weapons we could use to make people think. Music, Art, science, and so many more.

Correct.

The Berlin Concert done in the 80s created the "the Wall must go" chant in East Berlin. A couple of years later, it did. So this tactic was tried in other parts of the World by u.s. intel.