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Follower of Truth

NOTHING IN QURAN OF IMAMAH

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There is no doubt that Quran is the undisputed and universally accepted source of all denominations of Islam which each resorts to as authoritative source. It is believed to Word of God Himself. A revelation to mankind through the final messenger of God. It explains and interprets what is to believed and practiced to attain the ultimate salvation. All the fundamental tenets and creeds universally accepted by all denominations of Islam is mentioned and explained in the Quran in details like Tawhid, Risalah, Akhirah etc. Belief in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers and other necessary tenets and beliefs are mentioned with underlying logic and explanation throughout the whole Quran. Moreover all necessary practice like salat, sawm, zakat, hajj, jihad are mentioned all over the scripture.

The foundation of ithna ashari shia belief is the doctrine of Imamah which separates it from other muslim denominations. This belief is not an ordinary belief. It is considered the foundation of the religion. In twelver circle it is considered as important as Tawhid and Risalah. Rejecting it is considered kufr and without believing it one not be a mumin or believer. According to some shia scholars a rejecter of imamah is a kafir and according to other shia scholars he is apparently muslim in this world but kafir in the hereafter and go to hellfire. So how important this belief in imamah is! But ironically we fail to find a single mention of this belief in the whole quran. Such an important belief but Allah failed to mention it in His final Book and Testament to mankind till judgement day! Whereas each fundamentals of religion is expounded in the whole quran quite clearly and distinctly again and again.

For argument’s sake lets assume that shia belief in imamah is true. Lets assume first three caliphs were hypocrites and usurpers and ali (as) was rightlful successor to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) immediately after his death and this successorship continued for 11 successive persons from among his descendants. But even if this is true we can not make it any fundamental aspect of religion absence of which will make faith nullified and upon which salvation depends. Because if really the matter was so then in that case it is impossible that He will not mention it in His book thus pave the way for the people to be led astray and go to hell. It never can be regarded among fundamentals of religion.

Apparently this seemed embarrassing to shia scholars from the classical era. So a significant amount of scholars ended up with the belief of tahreef, that is a portion of the quran mentioning imamah belief has been omitted away by the companions when quran was canonized during the reign of Uthman ibn Affan. However those scholars who refrained from belief in tahreef resorted to a reckless and ridiculous effort to find some stuff in the quran. Thus they claimed about some ayats to be reference to Ali (as)’s authority and successorship though no normal people knowing Arabic will think of such meaning after reading those ayats. It is impossible for a non-shia to know about a doctrine (imamah) without which his religion is bound to be doomed and nullified and without which he will enter hell even if he believes all other fundamentals of religion and stick to the whole quran. Why Allah will do such injustice?

Some will try to explain it away by arguing that from hadith of prophet we came to know about it. And prophet’s order is like Allah’s order even if it is not in the quran. This would be true if the matter, though not in the quran but found in hadith, is not fundamental aspect of religion. As I previously said it is impossible that a matter is essential for salvation but it has no place God’s final revelation thus exposing those to vulnerability to be misled whereas we all important creeds and practices are mentioned in the quran repeatedly and clearly. Hadith can be explanation and elaboration of quran. But of course a basis should be in quran for an important matter of religion. For example salat is mentioned in the quran again and again in the quran with its importance, significance and virtues. But ritual details are found in prophetic traditions. Same is true for all other matters. But in case of imamah even no mention of this belief even for once!

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On 12/13/2017 at 4:54 PM, Follower of Truth said:

As I previously said it is impossible that a matter is essential for salvation but it has no place God’s final revelation thus exposing those to vulnerability to be misled whereas we all important creeds and practices are mentioned in the quran repeatedly and clearly.

You are wrong. Salah is considered the pillar of faith, meaning if you don't do salah your entire faith will collapse. If salah is one of the most important acts in Islam to an extent where if you don't believe in it you will be a kafir, then why are the details of salah not mentioned in the Quran? The Quran tells us to pray, but it does not tell us HOW to pray. This proves that the Quran does not explain everything clearly, and that's why we use ahadith to help us. The same thing with imamah, the doctrine of imamah is mentioned countless times in the Quran but we use ahadith to strengthen the doctrine.

If you want to see where imamah is mentioned in the Quran, read this topic here: 

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@Follower of Truth

Salaam brother,

Instead of such a long post, you could have simply said, "The concept of Imamah is wrong because it does not exist in the Quran".

First off, based on your premise above, would you not agree that along with the Shia, all Hanafi, Maliki, Shafai and Hanbali Sunnis are wrong...deviant as well?

Edited by Hassan-
Removed long quote

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5 hours ago, Hassan- said:

 

You are wrong. Salah is considered the pillar of faith, meaning if you don't do salah your entire faith will collapse. If salah is one of the most important acts in Islam to an extent where if you don't believe in it you will be a kafir, then why are the details of salah not mentioned in the Quran? The Quran tells us to pray, but it does not tell us HOW to pray. This proves that the Quran does not explain everything clearly, and that's why we use ahadith to help us. The same thing with imamah, the doctrine of imamah is mentioned countless times in the Quran but we use ahadith to strengthen the doctrine.

If you want to see where imamah is mentioned in the Quran, read this topic here: 

 

 

Mention of salat is found in the quran repeatedly. It has been said how important salat is, the benefit and significance of salat, order of performing salat in its due time and manner. It is also said that it is the most important practice for a believer to be remained on Allah's guidance. Then sunnah dictates the essential explanation. This is true for almost all rulings of religion and sharia. But as for imamah no mention in the Quran for it. As per Ithna Athari understanding it is as important as Tawheed and Risalah. We find not only mere clear mention of all fundamentals but also debate, logic and evidence in support of those fundamental tenets throughout the whole quran. One can show countless ayats in reference to Tawheed, Risalat, Akhirat, Prophethood, Divine books, prayer, charity, pilgrimage etc. But no mention of imamah which is so impotant that without it you are not a believer. So it means it is divine injustice (God forbid) on part of God who did not mention a matter of belief in His final Book without which your salvation is in jeopardy.

As for the alleged Quranic ayahs, none of these are any evidence in support of imamah as Shia twelver believes nowadays. Only those who born in a shia family or having been in shia environment will derive such results from those ayahs. People of third party reading quran even can not even think of imamamh stuff from these ayats. Only far-fetched interpretations contrary to the apparent meaning, linguistics and perspectives can be brought out. In your link so many ayats are referenced. It is hard to discuss all the ayats at a time. So please mention two three ayats you think most important in this issue. I will discuss about that inshallah.

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5 hours ago, kirtc said:

Oh, now im confused... which school should I follow.. Is Omar mentioned in the Quran? @Follower of Truth

Omar is not any matter of fundamental matter of religion in any denomination of Islam. Without bothering about Omar bin Khattab and other persons apart from the Holy prophet you may remain Muslim and believer. But imamah is foundation of religion. whithout which you are unbeliever. So don't be ridiculous. If you can shed light on what I said in my post you are welcome.

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5 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

@Follower of Truth

Salaam brother,

Instead of such a long post, you could have simply said, "The concept of Imamah is wrong because it does not exist in the Quran".

First off, based on your premise above, would you not agree that along with the Shia, all Hanafi, Maliki, Shafai and Hanbali Sunnis are wrong...deviant as well?

Wa alaikum salam.

No. There is no difference among the four schools regarding essential and fundamental tenets. the difference is about Furu or branch of religion mainly involving jurisprudential issues. this type of difference also exist among different Marjas of Twelver scholarship circle. But Imamah is quite different matter. According to twelver belief it as important as Oneness of God and Prophethood.

Edited by Follower of Truth

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5 hours ago, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

@Follower of Truth

If you are asleep, I can wake you up. If you pretend you're asleep, I cannot do anything.

If you can shed light on the issue with logic and evidence then you are welcome. such cheap dialogue will not derive any benefit.  every human being believes something after believing it to be correct while rejecting others believing it false. so if you encounter anything different from your belief and opinion you should engage in logical debate to counter it. otherwise if you can not do anything you had batter keep silent.

Edited by Follower of Truth

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18 minutes ago, Follower of Truth said:

Mention of salat is found in the quran repeatedly. It has been said how important salat is, the benefit and significance of salat, order of performing salat in its due time and manner. It is also said that it is the most important practice for a believer to be remained on Allah's guidance. Then sunnah dictates the essential explanation. This is true for almost all rulings of religion and sharia. But as for imamah no mention in the Quran for it. As per Ithna Athari understanding it is as important as Tawheed and Risalah. We find not only mere clear mention of all fundamentals but also debate, logic and evidence in support of those fundamental tenets throughout the whole quran. One can show countless ayats in reference to Tawheed, Risalat, Akhirat, Prophethood, Divine books, prayer, charity, pilgrimage etc. But no mention of imamah which is so impotant that without it you are not a believer. So it means it is divine injustice (God forbid) on part of God who did not mention a matter of belief in His final Book without which your salvation is in jeopardy.

You are missing the point here. The same way Allah (awj) tells us to establish prayer via the Quran and sends a messenger to guide us on how to pray, Allah (awj) also tells us to obey the people with authority via the Quran and sends a messenger to guide us on who to obey (e.g hadith al thaqalayn). Salah and Imamah are highly important beliefs in Islam, both mentioned in the Quran, and both explained via ahadith. Do you understand now?

18 minutes ago, Follower of Truth said:

As for the alleged Quranic ayahs, none of these are any evidence in support of imamah as Shia twelver believes nowadays. Only those who born in a shia family or having been in shia environment will derive such results from those ayahs. People of third party reading quran even can not even think of imamamh stuff from these ayats. Only far-fetched interpretations contrary to the apparent meaning, linguistics and perspectives can be brought out. In your link so many ayats are referenced. It is hard to discuss all the ayats at a time. So please mention two three ayats you think most important in this issue. I will discuss about that inshallah.

If you really read the topic I linked you and still can't rationalize with the evidence for imamah, then I rest my case, I don't want to waste my time explaining to you. 

Edited by Hassan-

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2 hours ago, Follower of Truth said:

Wa alaikum salam.

No. There is no difference among the four schools regarding essential and fundamental tenets. the difference is about Furu or branch of religion mainly involving jurisprudential issues. this type of difference also exist among different Marjas of Twelver scholarship circle. But Imamah is quite different matter.

Most sunnis will tell you that a Sunni has to believe in one of the four to remain sunni.

2 hours ago, Follower of Truth said:

According to twelver belief it as important as Oneness of God and Prophethood.

Nope. The order of usul-e-deen is Tawheed, Adl, Nubuwah, Imamah, Qiyamah.

If you are going to show us the light, start by telling the truth brother.

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3 hours ago, Follower of Truth said:

Omar is not any matter of fundamental matter of religion in any denomination of Islam. Without bothering about Omar bin Khattab and other persons apart from the Holy prophet you may remain Muslim and believer. But imamah is foundation of religion. whithout which you are unbeliever. So don't be ridiculous. If you can shed light on what I said in my post you are welcome.

As I said. Such claims have been made recently in YouTube debates. Before that, the debate was limited to "Shias worship stones". Now sunni preachers think they can "own" us on the Imamah issue. They now need to open their eyes and ears because, as said in aforementioned debates, notion of Imamah IS in the Quran.

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10 hours ago, Follower of Truth said:

There is no doubt that Quran is the undisputed and universally accepted source of all denominations of Islam which each resorts to as authoritative source. It is believed to Word of God Himself. A revelation to mankind through the final messenger of God. It explains and interprets what is to believed and practiced to attain the ultimate salvation. All the fundamental tenets and creeds universally accepted by all denominations of Islam is mentioned and explained in the Quran in details like Tawhid, Risalah, Akhirah etc. Belief in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers and other necessary tenets and beliefs are mentioned with underlying logic and explanation throughout the whole Quran. Moreover all necessary practice like salat, sawm, zakat, hajj, jihad are mentioned all over the scripture.

 

The foundation of ithna ashari shia belief is the doctrine of Imamah which separates it from other muslim denominations. This belief is not an ordinary belief. It is considered the foundation of the religion. In twelver circle it is considered as important as Tawhid and Risalah. Rejecting it is considered kufr and without believing it one not be a mumin or believer. According to some shia scholars a rejecter of imamah is a kafir and according to other shia scholars he is apparently muslim in this world but kafir in the hereafter and go to hellfire. So how important this belief in imamah is! But ironically we fail to find a single mention of this belief in the whole quran. Such an important belief but Allah failed to mention it in His final Book and Testament to mankind till judgement day! Whereas each fundamentals of religion is expounded in the whole quran quite clearly and distinctly again and again.

 

For argument’s sake lets assume that shia belief in imamah is true. Lets assume first three caliphs were hypocrites and usurpers and ali (as) was rightlful successor to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) immediately after his death and this successorship continued for 11 successive persons from among his descendants. But even if this is true we can not make it any fundamental aspect of religion absence of which will make faith nullified and upon which salvation depends. Because if really the matter was so then in that case it is impossible that He will not mention it in His book thus pave the way for the people to be led astray and go to hell. It never can be regarded among fundamentals of religion.

 

Apparently this seemed embarrassing to shia scholars from the classical era. So a significant amount of scholars ended up with the belief of tahreef, that is a portion of the quran mentioning imamah belief has been omitted away by the companions when quran was canonized during the reign of Uthman ibn Affan. However those scholars who refrained from belief in tahreef resorted to a reckless and ridiculous effort to find some stuff in the quran. Thus they claimed about some ayats to be reference to Ali (as)’s authority and successorship though no normal people knowing Arabic will think of such meaning after reading those ayats. It is impossible for a non-shia to know about a doctrine (imamah) without which his religion is bound to be doomed and nullified and without which he will enter hell even if he believes all other fundamentals of religion and stick to the whole quran. Why Allah will do such injustice?

 

Some will try to explain it away by arguing that from hadith of prophet we came to know about it. And prophet’s order is like Allah’s order even if it is not in the quran. This would be true if the matter, though not in the quran but found in hadith, is not fundamental aspect of religion. As I previously said it is impossible that a matter is essential for salvation but it has no place God’s final revelation thus exposing those to vulnerability to be misled whereas we all important creeds and practices are mentioned in the quran repeatedly and clearly. Hadith can be explanation and elaboration of quran. But of course a basis should be in quran for an important matter of religion. For example salat is mentioned in the quran again and again in the quran with its importance, significance and virtues. But ritual details are found in prophetic traditions. Same is true for all other matters. But in case of imamah even no mention of this belief even for once!

 

I don't think it's a good argument to use hadith to justify how to pray, but say to others who use hadith that the concept of imamah is not justified. 

That is an argument that can never be won.

If I followed my set of Hadith I thought were good, and let define my deen, how can I say its better than others?

The only way the argument can be made is directly from the Qur'an alone, the only thing that's constant that all muslims share, instead of hadith.   

If it can be shown that hadith is the only justification to use juxtaposed with Quran to support Imamah, then there is no argument to win or lose.  Just agree to disagree.

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Most Sunnis are worried about the day of judgment in my opinion. They believe there is a huge chance that Imamah can be true and they would regret being arrogant. That is why there mind is never in ease when it comes to the topic of imamah.

They will spend nights trying to get "that one Shia" to justify their irrationality.

At the end of the day, we will all have to stand before Allah. If Imamah is false, then what do we Shias have to lose by following the great Imam Jafar Al Sadiq (as)?

:)

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20 hours ago, Follower of Truth said:

The foundation of ithna ashari shia belief is the doctrine of Imamah which separates it from other muslim denominations. This belief is not an ordinary belief. It is considered the foundation of the religion. In twelver circle it is considered as important as Tawhid and Risalah. Rejecting it is considered kufr and without believing it one not be a mumin or believer. According to some shia scholars a rejecter of imamah is a kafir and according to other shia scholars he is apparently muslim in this world but kafir in the hereafter and go to hellfire. So how important this belief in imamah is! But ironically we fail to find a single mention of this belief in the whole quran. Such an important belief but Allah failed to mention it in His final Book and Testament to mankind till judgement day! Whereas each fundamentals of religion is expounded in the whole quran quite clearly and distinctly again and again.

This statement reminds me the claim that Mr Zakir Naik made that " there is no sunni or shia in quran". But actually the verses of quran at many places mentions the words"Shia" as follower.

The following verses are sufficient to provide the evidence of imam/. leader chosen by Allah swt for the guidance of the people and not made by the people:

Shakir: And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He. (2:124)

Shakir: And We made of them Imams to guide by Our command when they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications (32:24)

wasalam

Edited by skyweb1987

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21 hours ago, Follower of Truth said:

But ironically we fail to find a single mention of this belief in the whole quran

What a failure!

You were unable to see Imam e Mubeen in the whole Quran, what a failure indeed!

:)

Wassalam

 

Edited by Salsabeel

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21 hours ago, Follower of Truth said:

There is no doubt that Quran is the undisputed and universally accepted source of all denominations of Islam which each resorts to as authoritative source. It is believed to Word of God Himself. A revelation to mankind through the final messenger of God. It explains and interprets what is to believed and practiced to attain the ultimate salvation. All the fundamental tenets and creeds universally accepted by all denominations of Islam is mentioned and explained in the Quran in details like Tawhid, Risalah, Akhirah etc. Belief in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers and other necessary tenets and beliefs are mentioned with underlying logic and explanation throughout the whole Quran. Moreover all necessary practice like salat, sawm, zakat, hajj, jihad are mentioned all over the scripture.

 

The foundation of ithna ashari shia belief is the doctrine of Imamah which separates it from other muslim denominations. This belief is not an ordinary belief. It is considered the foundation of the religion. In twelver circle it is considered as important as Tawhid and Risalah. Rejecting it is considered kufr and without believing it one not be a mumin or believer. According to some shia scholars a rejecter of imamah is a kafir and according to other shia scholars he is apparently muslim in this world but kafir in the hereafter and go to hellfire. So how important this belief in imamah is! But ironically we fail to find a single mention of this belief in the whole quran. Such an important belief but Allah failed to mention it in His final Book and Testament to mankind till judgement day! Whereas each fundamentals of religion is expounded in the whole quran quite clearly and distinctly again and again.

 

For argument’s sake lets assume that shia belief in imamah is true. Lets assume first three caliphs were hypocrites and usurpers and ali (as) was rightlful successor to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) immediately after his death and this successorship continued for 11 successive persons from among his descendants. But even if this is true we can not make it any fundamental aspect of religion absence of which will make faith nullified and upon which salvation depends. Because if really the matter was so then in that case it is impossible that He will not mention it in His book thus pave the way for the people to be led astray and go to hell. It never can be regarded among fundamentals of religion.

 

Apparently this seemed embarrassing to shia scholars from the classical era. So a significant amount of scholars ended up with the belief of tahreef, that is a portion of the quran mentioning imamah belief has been omitted away by the companions when quran was canonized during the reign of Uthman ibn Affan. However those scholars who refrained from belief in tahreef resorted to a reckless and ridiculous effort to find some stuff in the quran. Thus they claimed about some ayats to be reference to Ali (as)’s authority and successorship though no normal people knowing Arabic will think of such meaning after reading those ayats. It is impossible for a non-shia to know about a doctrine (imamah) without which his religion is bound to be doomed and nullified and without which he will enter hell even if he believes all other fundamentals of religion and stick to the whole quran. Why Allah will do such injustice?

 

Some will try to explain it away by arguing that from hadith of prophet we came to know about it. And prophet’s order is like Allah’s order even if it is not in the quran. This would be true if the matter, though not in the quran but found in hadith, is not fundamental aspect of religion. As I previously said it is impossible that a matter is essential for salvation but it has no place God’s final revelation thus exposing those to vulnerability to be misled whereas we all important creeds and practices are mentioned in the quran repeatedly and clearly. Hadith can be explanation and elaboration of quran. But of course a basis should be in quran for an important matter of religion. For example salat is mentioned in the quran again and again in the quran with its importance, significance and virtues. But ritual details are found in prophetic traditions. Same is true for all other matters. But in case of imamah even no mention of this belief even for once!

 

Assalamu alaikum

The concept is clearly mentioned.

Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is always the one choosing the Khalif such as Adem, Dawood, Harun (asws) etc. Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى didn’t let the people (Surah al-Baqarah 2:247) nor the angles (Surah al-Baqarah 2:30) to elect their Khalif, for they’re not competent in this regard.

Furthermore, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى also states:

O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.
(Surah an-Nisa, 4:59)

Clearly, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is the only One who is Competent on choosing the Khalif, if the verse above implies that any Authority is to be obeyed, then what about Tyrants?

As per as per more details, this link might help you know what you’re looking for:

http://www.alqatrah.net/en/an229

If you’re looking for the names of the Imams (asws) then our response is that not everything has to be clearly mentioned in the Noble Qur’an. For instance, there are over 6000 “Sunni” Ahadeeth concerning Imam al-Mahdi (asws), and all your ulama say that if someone denies Imam al-Mahdi (asws) then he’s a kafir, now where is Imam al-Mahdi (asws) clearly mentioned in the Noble Qur’an for “Sunnis” to issue such ruling?

Therefore by this principle we may conclude that if Imamah is proven by your Ahadeeth then you shouldn’t have any problem with accepting it.

Edited by SheikhAlHabib'fan

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:bismillah:

Surah Hud, Verse 17:
أَفَمَن كَانَ عَلَىٰ بَيِّنَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّهِ وَيَتْلُوهُ شَاهِدٌ مِّنْهُ وَمِن قَبْلِهِ كِتَابُ مُوسَىٰ إِمَامًا وَرَحْمَةً أُولَٰئِكَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهِ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِهِ مِنَ الْأَحْزَابِ فَالنَّارُ مَوْعِدُهُ فَلَا تَكُ فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِّنْهُ إِنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكَ وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

Is he then who has with him clear proof from his Lord, and a witness from Him recites it and before it (is) the Book of Musa, a guide and a mercy? These believe in it; and whoever of the (different) parties disbelieves in it, surely it is the truth from your Lord, but most men do not believe.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Ar-Rad, Verse 43:
وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَسْتَ مُرْسَلًا قُلْ كَفَىٰ بِاللَّهِ شَهِيدًا بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ وَمَنْ عِندَهُ عِلْمُ الْكِتَابِ

And those who disbelieve say: You are not a messenger. Say: Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you and whoever has knowledge of the Book.
(English - Shakir)

 

Edited by Salsabeel

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The quran is very clear about whom to follow:

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

My sunni brothers say that whoever is in power is ulil amr. Based on this logic, they deem it perfectly acceptable to follow Saddam, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi and even Trump. As shias, we belief ulilamr can only come from Allah and it is the Imams.Secondly, the quran is very clear about whom to obey:

[Shakir 4:59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

Once again, sunnis say whoever is the ruler is in authority so they blindly follow Al-Baghdadi, Saddam, Al-Saud, etc.

As shias, we say authority can only come from Allah and so we choose to follow the Imams and their God-given authority.

 

This sunni fascination with Imamah is more about their guilt over following corrupt and evil rulers and stubbornness to admit they are wrong in following any given ruler.

 

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19 hours ago, Follower of Truth said:

Wa alaikum salam.

No. There is no difference among the four schools regarding essential and fundamental tenets. the difference is about Furu or branch of religion mainly involving jurisprudential issues. this type of difference also exist among different Marjas of Twelver scholarship circle. But Imamah is quite different matter. According to twelver belief it as important as Oneness of God and Prophethood.

Where is khilafa in the Qur'an? According to your school, it is wajib to give bay'ah to a caliph in every age. He who rejects the khilafa of Abu Bakr, Umar etc is upon falsehood. It's a very similar concept yet you can't justify it at face value from the verses of the Qur'an.

You can't demand a standard of evidence that you don't abide by, and that your scholars even condemn as false (eg Al-Albani).

Edited by IbnMariam

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On 12/15/2017 at 5:30 AM, IbnMariam said:

Where is khilafa in the Qur'an? According to your school, it is wajib to give bay'ah to a caliph in every age. He who rejects the khilafa of Abu Bakr, Umar etc is upon falsehood. It's a very similar concept yet you can't justify it at face value from the verses of the Qur'an.

You can't demand a standard of evidence that you don't abide by, and that your scholars even condemn as false (eg Al-Albani).

There is no concept of people chosen caliph in the Quran. The following verses provide the evidences:

the quran says that Allah swt chooses the caliphs.

:وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً

And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, (2:30)

يَا دَاوُودُ إِنَّا جَعَلْنَاكَ خَلِيفَةً فِي الْأَرْضِ فَاحْكُم بَيْنَ النَّاسِ بِالْحَقِّ وَلَا تَتَّبِعِ الْهَوَىٰ فَيُضِلَّكَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَضِلُّونَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ شَدِيدٌ بِمَا نَسُوا يَوْمَ الْحِسَابِ

o Dawood! surely We have made you a ruler in the land; so judge between men with justice and do not follow desire, lest it should lead you astray from the path of Allah; (as for) those who go astray from the path of Allah, they shall surely have a severe punishment because they forgot the day of reckoning. (38:26)

The detail can be seen at the given link:

wasalam

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I would recommend the OP to read the following book regarding this topic: "Imamate, The Vicegerency of the Prophet (S)" written by Allamah Sayyid Sa'eed Akhtar Rizvi. Read online: https://www.al-islam.org/imamate-the-viceregency-of-the-prophet-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi. This book discusses both Sunni and Shi'i view on leading the Ummah. Quoting a paragraph from this book:

Quote

Appointment by Allah

As in the case of the prophets, the above-mentioned qualifications alone are not enough to automatically make one an Imam. Imamate is not an acquired job; it is a 'designation' bestowed by Allah. 4 It is for this reason that the Shi'ah Ithna 'Asharis (The Twelvers) believe that only Allah can appoint a successor to the Prophet; that the ummah has no choice in this matter-its only duty is to follow such a divinely-appointed Imam or caliph. The Sunnis, on the other hand, believe that it is the duty of the ummah to appoint a caliph.

Verses of the Qur'an

The following verses of the Qur'an confirm the views held by the Shi'ahs:

And thy Lord creates what He wills and chooses; they have no right to choose; glory be to Allah, and exalted be He above what they associate! (28:68).

This clearly shows that man has no right to make any selection; it lies entirely in the hands of Allah.

Before creating Adam (as), Allah informed the angels:

... "Verily I am going to make a caliph in the earth ". . . ( 2: 30).

And when the angels demurred politely at the scheme, their protest was brushed aside by a curt reply: "Surely I know what you know not" (ibid.). If the ma'sum (infallible) angels were given no say in the appointment of a caliph, how can fallible humans expect to take the whole authority of such an appointment in their own hands?

Allah Himself appointed Prophet Dawud (as) as caliph on the earth-

"O Dawud ! Verily; We have made thee (Our) caliph on the earth ..." (38:26)

In every case Allah attributes the appointment of the caliph or the Imam exclusively to Himself.

Likewise, the call went to Prophet Ibrahim (as):

(Allah) said: "Surely I am going to make you an Imam for men." (Ibrahim) said: "And of my offspring?" He said: "My covenant will not include the unjust. " (2 : 124)

This verse leads us to the correct answers of many important questions concerning Imamate.

a. Allah said: "Surely I am going to make you an Imam for men. " This shows that Imamate is a divinely-appointed status; it is beyond the jurisdiction of the ummah.

b. "My covenant will not include the unjust." This clearly says that a non-ma'sum cannot be an Imam. Logically, we may divide mankind into four groups:

1. Those who remain unjust throughout their lives;

2. those who are never unjust;

3. those who are unjust early in their lives but later become just; and

4. those who are just early in their lives but later become unjust.

Ibrahim (as) had too high a position to request Imamate for the first or the fourth group. This leaves two groups (the second and the third) which could be included in the prayer. However, Allah rejects one of them; i. e., those who are unjust early in their lives but later become just. Now there remains only one group which can qualify for Imamate -those who are never unjust throughout their lives, i.e., ma'sum.

c. The literal translation of the last sentence is as follows: My covenant will not reach the unjust. Note that Allah did not say, the unjust will not reach My covenant, because it would have implied that it was within the power of man-albeit a just one-to attain the status of Imamate. The present sentence does not leave room for any such misunderstanding; it cleary shows that receiving Imamate is not within human jurisdiction; it is exclusively in the hands of Allah and He gives it to whom He pleases.

Then as a general rule, it is stated:

And We made them Imams who were to guide by Our command ... (21:73)

When Prophet Musa (as) wanted a vizier to help him with his responsibilities, he did not appoint someone by his own authority. He prayed to Allah: "And make for me a vizier from my family, Harun (Aaron) my brother" (20:29-30). And Allah said:

"You are indeed granted your petition, O Musa!" (ibid., 36).

That Divine selection is made known to the ummah through the prophet or the preceding Imam. This declaration is called nass (specification; determination; designation of the succeeding Imam by the prophet or preceding Imam). An Imam according to Shi'ite belief, must be mansus min Allah, i.e., designated by Allah for that status.

 

 

Edited by Khomeinist

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On 12/13/2017 at 9:54 PM, Follower of Truth said:

There is no doubt that Quran is the undisputed and universally accepted source of all denominations of Islam which each resorts to as authoritative source. It is believed to Word of God Himself. A revelation to mankind through the final messenger of God. It explains and interprets what is to believed and practiced to attain the ultimate salvation. All the fundamental tenets and creeds universally accepted by all denominations of Islam is mentioned and explained in the Quran in details like Tawhid, Risalah, Akhirah etc. Belief in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers and other necessary tenets and beliefs are mentioned with underlying logic and explanation throughout the whole Quran. Moreover all necessary practice like salat, sawm, zakat, hajj, jihad are mentioned all over the scripture.

 

The foundation of ithna ashari shia belief is the doctrine of Imamah which separates it from other muslim denominations. This belief is not an ordinary belief. It is considered the foundation of the religion. In twelver circle it is considered as important as Tawhid and Risalah. Rejecting it is considered kufr and without believing it one not be a mumin or believer. According to some shia scholars a rejecter of imamah is a kafir and according to other shia scholars he is apparently muslim in this world but kafir in the hereafter and go to hellfire. So how important this belief in imamah is! But ironically we fail to find a single mention of this belief in the whole quran. Such an important belief but Allah failed to mention it in His final Book and Testament to mankind till judgement day! Whereas each fundamentals of religion is expounded in the whole quran quite clearly and distinctly again and again.

 

For argument’s sake lets assume that shia belief in imamah is true. Lets assume first three caliphs were hypocrites and usurpers and ali (as) was rightlful successor to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) immediately after his death and this successorship continued for 11 successive persons from among his descendants. But even if this is true we can not make it any fundamental aspect of religion absence of which will make faith nullified and upon which salvation depends. Because if really the matter was so then in that case it is impossible that He will not mention it in His book thus pave the way for the people to be led astray and go to hell. It never can be regarded among fundamentals of religion.

 

Apparently this seemed embarrassing to shia scholars from the classical era. So a significant amount of scholars ended up with the belief of tahreef, that is a portion of the quran mentioning imamah belief has been omitted away by the companions when quran was canonized during the reign of Uthman ibn Affan. However those scholars who refrained from belief in tahreef resorted to a reckless and ridiculous effort to find some stuff in the quran. Thus they claimed about some ayats to be reference to Ali (as)’s authority and successorship though no normal people knowing Arabic will think of such meaning after reading those ayats. It is impossible for a non-shia to know about a doctrine (imamah) without which his religion is bound to be doomed and nullified and without which he will enter hell even if he believes all other fundamentals of religion and stick to the whole quran. Why Allah will do such injustice?

 

Some will try to explain it away by arguing that from hadith of prophet we came to know about it. And prophet’s order is like Allah’s order even if it is not in the quran. This would be true if the matter, though not in the quran but found in hadith, is not fundamental aspect of religion. As I previously said it is impossible that a matter is essential for salvation but it has no place God’s final revelation thus exposing those to vulnerability to be misled whereas we all important creeds and practices are mentioned in the quran repeatedly and clearly. Hadith can be explanation and elaboration of quran. But of course a basis should be in quran for an important matter of religion. For example salat is mentioned in the quran again and again in the quran with its importance, significance and virtues. But ritual details are found in prophetic traditions. Same is true for all other matters. But in case of imamah even no mention of this belief even for once!

 

If there is no such concept of Imamate/leadership, how then do you explain the abundance of Sahih Hadiths in the Sunni books which talks about 12 Amirs/Caliphs? If the concept does not exist in Shias theology, then why does this concept of 12 Caliphs/Amirs exit in your own books? And more importantly, the concept of 12 Amirs/Caliphs which has been narrated in your books in abundance,  does it in anyway contradicts the holy Quran? If it does, then your Sahih books are worthless, and if you cannot find the Hadith of 12 Caliphs contradicting the Quran, then it is only Allah swt who  appoints the Caliph and not mankind! therefore your creed have to accept Leadership comes from Allah swt   because we know Rasulullah does not speak from his own desire when it comes to Islam, it is inspired by Allah swt. therefore, the mentioning of 12 Caliphs must have come through divine guidance.

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