Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Sumerian

Trump's Jerusalem decision

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

The US has never been interested in a peace process anyway, may as well expose themselves to the ones that didn't know this. It is not very different from what they have kept doing, which is just funding the occupation.

Edited by Mohamed1993

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only REAL consequence of Trump's Jerusalem move is......yes you guessed it right.....empowerment of Iran through legitimacy both in the Islamic and the wider world. It will not change the realities of the ground much because Micronesia + US do not equal the whole world and everything related to it.

Harriri's kidnapping, Saleh's collusion, and now this.....amazing how Iran's opponents keep on shooting themselves on the foot and cry  louder about the power of Iran. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, notme said:

This only reiterates my belief that Trump's presidency is an act of sabotage. His only purpose in office is to stir up discord and make things difficult for everyone else. 

Everyone read this short book. https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/simple-sabotage.html

Actually, you don't even have to read the whole booklet, just the first chapter or so, and it will be obvious. 

Maybe he's trying to start a war (any war he can) so the government can declare a state of emergency and institute martial law. 

Trump is consequence of Obama Iran's deal.

684x384_309917.jpg

I think that was warning to US XD

clip_image030.jpg

the act was blocked by Clinton (Monica?), Bush and Obama.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

does it really matter?

Will moving the embassy to Jerusalem change US policy or Israeli policy or the Palestinians?

This is simply a move to appease his voting block - right-wing Christian fundamentals and Zionists. Publicity stunt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sayid Khamenei's prophetic take of the "peace process" from 2013...and I remeber how Mahmood Abbas basically scoffed at the whole thing....making it look as if Iran was the crazy party here and how Pals & Israelis & Americans will reach a big and beautiful deal...

IRAN'S KHAMENEI: PEACE TALKS WILL FORCE PALESTINIANS TO RELINQUISH THEIR RIGHTS

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Irans-Khamenei-Peace-talks-will-force-Palestinians-to-relinquish-their-rights-322568

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1] Forty and fifty years ago, l asked someone who had been to Jerusalem about getting from there to Bethlehem. He said you just go out the city and drive (20 minutes l think he said) and you are there in no time.  But, in the last 20+ years, Jerusalem is now a metropolis which has engulfed Bethlehem --which is now a neighborhood devoted to tourism. ln short, all the old maps are meaningless in what constitutes Jerusalem in the American public mind.

2] As @Chaotic Muslem opere citato wrote, lsrael has wanted foreign embassies in Jerusalem. Now that Trump is ordering the move then he can get something in return: like a change in lsraeli behavior towards the Gaza Ghetto.

Edited by hasanhh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/6/2017 at 9:05 AM, Sumerian said:

What do you guys think?

Salam Sumerian,

I think God is orchestrating everything to prepare for the Jewish Messiah's return, whether people like it or not.

I also think it's interesting that King David was the first person who made Jerusalem the capital of Israel; that was thousands of years ago though. He took it away from the Jebusites, the people who lived there before the Children of Israel migrated from Egypt to the land God promised them. (I boldened some.)

So all the elders of Israel came to the king to Hebron; and king David made a covenant with them in Hebron before the LORD; and they anointed David king over Israel.

David was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty years.

In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months; and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty and three years over all Israel and Judah.

And the king and his men went to Jerusalem against the Jebusites, the inhabitants of the land, who spoke unto David, saying: 'Except thou take away the blind and the lame, thou shalt not come in hither'; thinking: 'David cannot come in hither.'

Nevertheless David took the stronghold of Zion; the same is the city of David.

- 2 Samuel 5:3-6

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt08b05.htm

King David, by the way, is as Jewish as a person can be, since he is from the tribe of Judah (where the term Jew comes from). Jesus Christ (Yeshua HaMashiach) is also Jewish, since he comes from the tribe of Judah as well. Someday, Jesus Christ will return and rule from Jerusalem. (I boldened some of the prophecy below.)

The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. And it shall come to pass in the end of days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established as the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

And many peoples shall go and say: 'Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths.' For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

And He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.  - Isaiah 2:1-4

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1002.htm

Peace and God bless you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Sumerian said:

What do you guys think?

I was shock. He gonna make the war even worse. And how does the USA president have that kind of power to declare jersalem as head of Israel? He has no jurisdiction over Palestine or Israel. 

He just brought down hell.  Well more of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

Salam Sumerian,

I think it's interesting that King David was the first person who made Jerusalem the capital of Israel; that was thousands of years ago though. He took it away from the Jebusites, the people who lived there before the Children of Israel migrated from Egypt to the land God promised them. (I boldened some.)

So all the elders of Israel came to the king to Hebron; and king David made a covenant with them in Hebron before the LORD; and they anointed David king over Israel.

David was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty years.

In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months; and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty and three years over all Israel and Judah.

And the king and his men went to Jerusalem against the Jebusites, the inhabitants of the land, who spoke unto David, saying: 'Except thou take away the blind and the lame, thou shalt not come in hither'; thinking: 'David cannot come in hither.'

Nevertheless David took the stronghold of Zion; the same is the city of David.

- 2 Samuel 5:3-6

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt08b05.htm

King David, by the way, is as Jewish as a person can be, since he is from the tribe of Judah (where the term Jew comes from). Jesus Christ (Yeshua HaMashiach) is also Jewish, since he comes from the tribe of Judah as well. Someday, Jesus Christ will return and rule from Jerusalem.

Peace and God bless you

I really wonder, if we went by the logic that who ruled over the land a couple hundred or thousands' years ago matters today, then certainly the borders won't be the same today.

In fact, I would expect every white person in America, Australia and Canada to pack up their bags and give the homeland back to the natives, no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/6/2017 at 7:25 PM, Sumerian said:

I really wonder, if we went by the logic that who ruled over the land a couple hundred or thousands' years ago matters today, then certainly the borders won't be the same today.

In fact, I would expect every white person in America, Australia and Canada to pack up their bags and give the homeland back to the natives, no?

Salam Sumerian,

As far as I know, there are no prophecies in the Bible which prophesy that the Mashiach (Anointed One/King) will rule from either America, or Australia, or Canada.

Since the Bible is an ancient compilation of manuscripts and since the prophet Isaiah lived hundreds of years before Jesus Christ came, it is interesting that God gave him prophecies specifically concerning Judah and Jerusalem. Washington DC is not mentioned once in the Bible lol, unlike Jerusalem, which is mentioned multiple times in both the Tanakh (Old Testament) and the New Testament.

This by the way, is another prophecy that God gave to another prophet, Zechariah, concerning the Messiah, which Christians believe Jesus Christ fulfilled:

Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion, shout, O daughter of Jerusalem; behold, thy king cometh unto thee, he is triumphant, and victorious, lowly, and riding upon an ass, even upon a colt the foal of an ass.

- Zechariah 9:9

Many Christians believe that Jesus Christ will fulfill Zechariah 9:10 after he returns:

And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off, and he shall speak peace unto the nations; and his dominion shall be from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth.

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2309.htm

Peace and God bless you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

The Biblical 'Israel' has nothing to do with the present day political entity known as the 'State of Israel'. The Christians were tricked by Theodore Herzl and the original Zionist clan. The Biblical Israel refers the the Kingdoms of David and Soloman(a.s) who were just rulers who ruled according to the laws of God. The present day State of Israel is run by secular Jews from New York and con artists from East Europe who are looking for land and political power. Two very different things. 

If I call a rabbit a turtle, that doesn't make the rabbit a turtle, it just makes me look silly. 

Salam Abu Hadi,

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. However, God does what He promises regardless of what people think.

Peace and God bless you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

However, God does what He promises regardless of what people think.

Well, yes.

You would be one of "people" too, right? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

Salam Abu Hadi,

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. However, God does what He promises regardless of what people think.

Peace and God bless you

Alekum Salam, 

Everyone has the right to his / her opinion and also God(s.w.a) gave us all a brain. He expects us to use it, which is why he gave it to us. 

If someone makes a claim that he is following the way of David and Soloman(may peace be upon them both) and then they way he acts is 180 degrees different than David and Soloman(a.s), how can you accept the claim ? That is what I don't understand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, notme said:

Well, yes.

You would be one of "people" too, right? :)

Salam Notme,

Of course. :) My opinion does not matter. What God promises is what matters, and He promised that the Jewish Messiah will come and reign from Jerusalem. It doesn't matter what I or anybody else thinks about that lol.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Christianlady said:

Salam Notme,

Of course. :) My opinion do not matter. What God promises matter, and He promised that the Jewish Messiah will come and reign from Jerusalem. It doesn't matter what I or anybody else thinks about that lol.

Peace and God bless you

And it doesn't require warmongering politicians making ill advised declarations, does it? 

It almost seems that you are gleeful at the thought of Trump inciting a war, and all its accompanying human suffering. I really hope that isn't the case. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

Alekum Salam, 

Everyone has the right to his / her opinion and also God(s.w.a) gave us all a brain. He expects us to use it, which is why he gave it to us. 

If someone makes a claim that he is following the way of David and Soloman(may peace be upon them both) and then they way he acts is 180 degrees different than David and Soloman(a.s), how can you accept the claim ? That is what I don't understand. 

Salam Abu Hadi,

God uses even pagans to do His bidding. For example, He had pagans punish the Children of Israel multiple times for disobeying Him, including the time hundreds of years before Jesus Christ first came, when Babylon sacked Jerusalem, and when Rome destroyed Jerusalem, years after Jesus Christ first came. The history of Israel has been a cycle of God punishing the Children of Israel for their sins, then bringing them back, repeat.

As for King David, do you believe that David fought the enemies of Israel? Just curious. Thanks.

Solomon was a man of peace, but David was not.

Peace and God bless you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, notme said:

And it doesn't require warmongering politicians making ill advised declarations, does it? 

It almost seems that you are gleeful at the thought of Trump inciting a war, and all its accompanying human suffering. I really hope that isn't the case. 

Salam Notme,

You can attack me all you want. I don't like Trump and it has nothing to do with me. I hate war and am a pacifist, regardless of your assumptions.

Again, what's important is what God promises, not my opinions. I am just quoting the ancient prophets who prophesied about Jerusalem what God told them to say. You can believe them or reject them; I personally believe them. Why? Because I believe God gave them those prophecies to tell people, including even us (people alive) today.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Abu Hadi said:

Yes, He fought the enemies of Israel. He fought many battles on the battlefield when it was necessary. He fought according to certain rules and guidelines and he also received revelation from God(s.w.a). 

Salam Abu Hadi,

Agreed. Thanks for answering my question. :)

Quote

What he didn't do is place populations in open air prison camps (The West Bank), demolish houses of innocent people and steal their land, burn fields and crops of non combatants, imprison and starve children, tell his armies to launch attacks on apartment buildings filled with civilians, fire bomb schools, and take away freedoms and economic and political rights from non combatants after the battle was over and force them to live a life of humiliation. 

I'm not sure if the Qur'an or hadiths go into much detail over David's wars? The Tanakh does go into some detail about David's fights, including the following: 

And David and his men went up, and made a raid upon the Geshurites, and the Gizrites, and the Amalekites; for those were the inhabitants of the land, who were of old, as thou goest to Shur, even unto the land of Egypt.

And David smote the land, and left neither man nor woman alive, and took away the sheep, and the oxen, and the asses, and the camels, and the apparel. And he returned, and came to Achish.

- 1 Samuel 27:8-9

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt08a27.htm

Quote

All these things Israel has done, continues to do, and this is well documented and eye witnessed by many who are probably reading this on this website. 

Personally, I wish that both Israel, Palestine, the USA, and every other nation would obey Jesus Christ's commands to love enemies. However, of course my wish doesn't matter.

Again, what matters is what God promises. The Jewish prophets Isaiah and Zechariah prophesied that the Messiah would reign from Jerusalem. They prophesied this 2,000+ years ago, and we can choose to believe them or reject them. I believe that God gave them those prophesies. However, I understand if you believe the opposite.

Peace and God bless you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, the problem for me when you quote the Bible is that you are not quoting the original text, you are quoting a translation, and a translation that has been altered over the centuries. 

What we can agree on is that he fought a battle against these people. 

You know in your heart, and everyone who believes in God knows in their heart that doing harm to non combatants such as killing them, stealing their land, or oppressing them is wrong and against the laws of God. Since Prophet David and Soloman followed the laws of God and were foremost in following and implementing those laws, therefore they never did any of the above. This is common sense. 

Even if I stretch your point all the way till the end and say that he took away the sheep, oxen, and asses of those people at that time (which I don't think he did but just for the sake of argument), it doesn't say that he went to their children and their children's children and continued to take away their sheep, oxen, asses, land, dignity and whatever else they had including their crops. Because you know that this would be wrong. Israel does this and continues to do this.  So again, there is no correlation between the actions of the so called modern day 'State of Israel' and Biblical Israel even if we take the literal translation as is. 

And if you really believe that there is some similarity between the Biblical Israel and the modern so called 'State of Israel' I invite you to take a trip to the West Bank or South Lebanon, two places which will show you the truth and reality of the situation. If you care to do this, or at least watch some documentaries about the Israeli Invasion of Lebanon in 1982 or what is going on in the West Bank or East Jerusalem today, it will become so clear to you as not to require any additional proof, again, if you are actually confused about what the reality is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/6/2017 at 7:36 PM, Christianlady said:

Salam Sumerian,

As far as I know, there are no prophecies in the Bible which prophesy that the Mashiach (Anointed One/King) will rule from either America, or Australia, or Canada.

Since the Bible is an ancient compilation of manuscripts and since the prophet Isaiah lived hundreds of years before Jesus Christ came, it is interesting that God gave him prophecies specifically concerning Judah and Jerusalem. Washington DC is not mentioned once in the Bible lol, unlike Jerusalem, which is mentioned multiple times in both the Tanakh (Old Testament) and the New Testament.

This by the way, is another prophecy that God gave to another prophet, Zechariah, concerning the Messiah, which Christians believe Jesus Christ fulfilled:

Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion, shout, O daughter of Jerusalem; behold, thy king cometh unto thee, he is triumphant, and victorious, lowly, and riding upon an ass, even upon a colt the foal of an ass.

- Zechariah 9:9

Many Christians believe that Jesus Christ will fulfill Zechariah 9:10 after he returns:

And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off, and he shall speak peace unto the nations; and his dominion shall be from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth.

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2309.htm

Peace and God bless you

Why must we follow the Bible when we are Muslims? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sis, the assumption 'God orchestrates everything' cannot be held credible via any scripture from the major 3 monotheist religions. I'm sure I may have misunderstood what you were suggesting and with an alternative approach I'm warm to the idea that should certain things come into play, God permits man to exercise his/her own free will whether good or bad (with the absence of Divine intervention). 

Israel oppressing people, robbing them of their land, forcing themselves as the gatekeepers of Jerusalem is not an Act of God. If a Messiah was to emerge from this very land, surely it would be amongst the honest orthodox Jews like the Naterui Karta who not only remain oppressed but voice their opposition against the Zionist State of Israel. If I could put it bluntly, would you approve the following statement 'God engineered the rise of Pharoah in order to introduce Moses to Mankind'. If this was true, the victim here would be Pharoah himself given that he was denied free will and was involuntarily held accountable for a crime which he will end up burning for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the initial OP -

I can't see Trump making any decisions himself, whatsoever. He just doesn't have what it takes! Granted, hes a top notch spoilt brat of a business man but that's exactly his downfall. Who knows what deals have been placed under the table for Trumps successes for him to gamble bringing the CAP C to Jerusalem. Show any blind patriotic racist a pot of Gold and regardless of your skin colour he's your best buddy. I take it the shadow elites did more than just showing 'WHERE IZ DA MANEEYY' for him to sell himself so short and so quickly. Thats the problem with most business men, the Quick buck is too attractive to look the other way. Or was he in the loop from the get go - God Knows!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Christianlady  long time no read. Have a merry chr!stmas.

Your posts since this indicate you didn't look-up modern metropolitan Jerusalem.

On 12/6/2017 at 6:15 PM, hasanhh said:

1] Forty and fifty years ago, l asked someone who had been to Jerusalem about getting from there to Bethlehem. He said you just go out the city and drive (20 minutes l think he said) and you are there in no time.  But, in the last 20+ years, Jerusalem is now a metropolis which has engulfed Bethlehem --which is now a neighborhood devoted to tourism. ln short, all the old maps are meaningless in what constitutes Jerusalem in the American public mind.

2] As @Chaotic Muslem opere citato wrote, lsrael has wanted foreign embassies in Jerusalem. Now that Trump is ordering the move then he can get something in return: like a change in lsraeli behavior towards the Gaza Ghetto.

 

On 12/6/2017 at 7:36 PM, Christianlady said:

Salam Sumerian,

As far as I know, there are no prophecies in the Bible which prophesy that the Mashiach (Anointed One/King) will rule from either America, or Australia, or Canada.

Peace and God bless you

There is Jeremiah 49:37-39   Enemies terrorize Elam then the God-of-Noah-s.w.t. destroys them and sets up "His" designated throne as a base to destroy the kings of the Earth. See the Young and Douay translations for easiest understanding. And what is in Old Elam today? Qom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Sis, the assumption 'God orchestrates everything' cannot be held credible via any scripture from the major 3 monotheist religions. I'm sure I may have misunderstood what you were suggesting and with an alternative approach I'm warm to the idea that should certain things come into play, God permits man to exercise his/her own free will whether good or bad (with the absence of Divine intervention). 

We have the same thing with reappearance of Imam al Mehdi (as) and Jesus (as), of course before of their reappearance, great injustice of mankind will take place, and Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى will fill the earth with peace after it, that is Mercy of God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...