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In the Name of God بسم الله

why Shias are less in number compared to Sunni

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We know that division amongst Muslims started just after the departure of Prophet saww from this world to Allah. And there wasn't clear cut distinction between Sunnis and shias during the the time of ist four kaliphs. But gradully the distinction widened to the extent of emergence of two major sects. Apparently there should be near equal population in two sects.But why there is gross difference in number between two sects. And why conversation from non muslim to Shia muslim is less than to Sunni Muslims. 

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Shia have been slaughtered mercilessly for generations. As a result we have been withered down to around 10-12% of all Muslims. I doubt anyone has the full statistics handy of how much Shia blood has

1. Shias did not remain in power to introduce their religion until 16th Century when one of the Persian King took it as objective to propagate the teachings of this religion. So, from 623 till 16th Ce

Mr. Yasir Alhabib is not spreading Islam but fitnah and hatred. He is suspect of being Mi6 agent to defame Islam. 

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31 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Shia have been slaughtered mercilessly for generations. As a result we have been withered down to around 10-12% of all Muslims. I doubt anyone has the full statistics handy of how much Shia blood has been spilled over the centuries but its been at or near genocidal levels.

Naturally, when one sect asserts such unchecked hatred on another then they will eventually become the dominant sect in all aspects (i.e. Conversion ratio).

A more apt statistic to consider might be how many Shia reverts do we have to Sunni reverts and see the proportionate rate. I don't have that info but I would be curious to know how many Shia reverts we have compared to Sunni reverts divided by the total number of each sect. Perhaps the Shia reverts ratio is higher?

Why Shias couldn't defend themselves. 

Why Shias today are unable propagate their religion to nonMuslims .so that non Muslims would convert to Shia muslim than to Sunni or wahhaby muslim. 

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On 11/7/2017 at 11:16 AM, islam25 said:

Apparently there should be near equal population in two sects.But why there is gross difference in number between two sects. And why conversation from non muslim to Shia muslim is less than to Sunni Muslims. 

Brother you have mentioned two assumptions

1. The Shia were slaughtered during the days of ummayad and they were also killed by  the subsequent rulers in history. If our 11 imams out of 12 were martyred by rulers how do you expect that their followers should be in same proportions as that of others? This is an incorrect assumption.

2.   Normally i t is considered that rate of Shia reverts is more than that of sunni reverts to Islam.  Although i do not find any statistics presently.  But in general it happens that some non-muslim carries out his research and accepts Islam as religion comes first to Sunni Islam. But afterward when he gets  information and literature  about Shia Islam then he / she may come  to it as shia reverts. Normally it may take time like few years. Many examples of shia reverts can be found at SC. The link of relevant thread is given below:

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On 11/7/2017 at 12:23 PM, skyweb1987 said:

Brother you have mentioned two assumptions

1. The Shia were slaughtered during the days of ummayad and they were also killed by  the subsequent rulers in history. If our 11 imams out of 12 were martyred by rulers how do you expect that their followers should be in same proportions as that of others? This is an incorrect assumption.

2.   Normally i t is considered that rate of Shia reverts is more than that of sunni reverts to Islam.  Although i do not find any statistics presently.  But in general it happens that some non-muslim carries out his research and accepts Islam as religion comes first to Sunni Islam. But afterward when he gets  information and literature  about Shia Islam then he / she may come  to it as shia reverts. Normally it may take time like few years. Many examples of shia reverts can be found at SC. The link of relevant thread is given below:

Even if tens and scores of non muslim who convert to Sunni then Shia is much less than total conversion from non-muslim to Sunni . 

And just like thousands of non Muslims convert to Sunni Islam. 

Why don't thousands of non muslim convert to Shia Islam. 

Does it mean our doctrine is less appealing or our invitation is ineffective or something else. 

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Salaam Alaykum

Actually this is a good question. As I was reading your post, this verse of Quran came to my mind:" و قلیلا ما یؤمنون". 

The reason that our brother @Akbar673 mentioned is true. Shia Muslims have become slaughtered a lot throughout history.

The second reason is that to be honest Sunni Muslims are more active than Shias on converting other people. We have to work on ourselves.

Marriage is another reason. I heard that Sunnis go to mosques for marriage and it's something normal among them. We have fewer number of Shia mosques like this which is not good. If we look at prophet and Amiralmuminin they did a lot of Nikah in mosques.

Sunni Muslims usually do polygamy and it's OK among them(It's OK Islamically as well), but Shias look different.

Number of children is another reason that makes Sunni Muslims larger in population.

Another thing is psychological reasons. When a non-muslim looks at Islam, he/she mostly see Sunni Muslims. This makes him/her to believe that Sunni is correct and he/she should follow that. This larger population brings an impression to converts that they also want to be Sunni. Few non-muslims decide to follow Shiite because he/she sees larger population in the other sect. They are also Muslim and they are talking about Allah and Mohammad. This is the effect of larger population.

This larger population brings larger number of websites, YouTube videos, forums etc. All of these lead to even larger population in future.

Number of mosques in western countries is another reason. When I was back in Florida, I used to ride my bike one hour to go to the only shia mosque in Jacksonville, but there was a Sunni mosque ten mins away from my home. In my current city there is only one mosque and it's Sunni mosque. I heard that sunni students go there to find wife while shia students are still single. Obviously, it brings more population.

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On 11/7/2017 at 12:33 PM, islam25 said:

Even if tens and scores of non muslim who convert to Sunni then Shia is much less than total conversion from non-muslim to Sunni . 

And just like thousands of non Muslims convert to Sunni Islam. 

Why don't thousands of non muslim convert to Shia Islam. 

Does it mean our doctrine is less appealing or our invitation is ineffective or something else. 

Christians are more in numbers than the msulims, Do you consider that  being in majority many times than muslims population means they are followers of the true path  so less in numbers are converted as muslims?

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On 11/7/2017 at 12:34 PM, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

Salaam Alaykum

Actually this is a good question. As I was reading your post, this verse of Quran came to my mind:" و قلیلا ما یؤمنون". 

The reason that our brother @Akbar673 mentioned is true. Shia Muslims have become slaughtered a lot throughout history.

The second reason is that to be honest Sunni Muslims are more active than Shias on converting other people. We have to work on ourselves.

Marriage is another reason. I heard that Sunnis go to mosques for marriage and it's something normal among them. We have fewer number of Shia mosques like this which is not good. If we look at prophet and Amiralmuminin they did a lot of Nikah in mosques.

Sunni Muslims usually do polygamy and it's OK among them(It's OK Islamically as well), but Shias look different.

Number of children is another reason that makes Sunni Muslims larger in population.

Another thing is psychological reasons. When a non-muslim looks at Islam, he/she mostly see Sunni Muslims. This makes him/her to believe that Sunni is correct and he/she should follow that. This larger population brings an impression to converts that they also want to be Sunni. Few non-muslims decide to follow Shiite because he/she sees larger population in the other sect. They are also Muslim and they are talking about Allah and Mohammad. This is the effect of larger population.

This larger population brings larger number of websites, YouTube videos, forums etc. All of these lead to even larger population in future.

Number of mosques in western countries is another reason. When I was back in Florida, I used to ride my bike one hour to go to the only shia mosque in Jacksonville, but there was a Sunni mosque ten mins away from my home.

Brother you have rightly answered and highlighted main reasons. Why do not there is well organised dawah centers or organisation  from Shia to nonMuslims. 

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2 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

Christians are more in numbers than the msulims, Do you consider that  being in majority many times than muslims population means they are followers of the true path  so less in numbers are converted as muslims?

That is not correct answer. Question is who is on true path. 

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

We know that division amongst Muslims started just after the departure of Prophet saww from this world to Allah. And there wasn't clear cut distinction between Sunnis and shias during the the time of ist four kaliphs. But gradully the distinction widened to the extent of emergence of two major sects. Apparently there should be near equal population in two sects.But why there is gross difference in number between two sects. And why conversation from non muslim to Shia muslim is less than to Sunni Muslims. 

1. Shias did not remain in power to introduce their religion until 16th Century when one of the Persian King took it as objective to propagate the teachings of this religion. So, from 623 till 16th Century most of the area in the Arabian Peninsula and Middle East was governed by the anti-Shia people most of the time.

2. In the beginning of the Caliphate, foreign people thought Abu Bakar to be the real Caliph due to their unawareness regarding civilian instability and all the people in the Arabia regarded Shias as enemy of the Muslims state number one as is now whole of the West considers Islam to be against humanity.

3. Finally, the so called Muslim leaders left no stone unturned in calling Shias to be heretics and Kufar to the extent that they were driven from their areas and many were killed and thus world thought that sitting Caliph is the representative of majority view, therefore, they thought Shias to be a group that has revolted due to political issues but it was not political issue rather religious ones. 

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On 11/7/2017 at 12:46 PM, Sindbad05 said:

1. Shias did not remain in power to introduce their religion until 16th Century when one of the Persian King took it as objective to propagate the teachings of this religion. So, from 623 till 16th Century most of the area in the Arabian Peninsula and Middle East was governed by the anti-Shia people most of the time.

2. In the beginning of the Caliphate, foreign people thought Abu Bakar to be the real Caliph due to their unawareness regarding civilian instability and all the people in the Arabia regarded Shias as enemy of the Muslims state number one as is now whole of the West considers Islam to be against humanity.

3. Finally, the so called Muslim leaders left no stone unturned in calling Shias to be heretics and Kufar to the extent that they were driven from their areas and many were killed and thus world thought that sitting Caliph is the representative of majority view, therefore, they thought Shias to be a group that has revolted due to political issues but it was not political issue rather religious ones. 

You have rightly mentioned the causes. 

But why today Shia do not have effective dawah system and centres to invite non-muslim towards true Islam just like sunnis and particularly wahhabies have.

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36 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Why Shias couldn't defend themselves.  

How do unarmed civilians who are only concerned with protecting their families defend themselves from armed and trained Govt. military soldiers? How does an unarmed man stop a swinging sword? 

38 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Why Shias today are unable propagate their religion to nonMuslims .so that non Muslims would convert to Shia muslim than to Sunni or wahhaby muslim.

Are Shia not propogating? I think they are just fine.

Sunni are being funded by Saudi with their own ulterior nefarious reasons behind  it and belive me those reasons are not for spreading the deen of Muhammad (PBUH). Their political and economical greed is the true reasons behind their "propogating" of Islam.

Shia are spreading the deen of Muhammad (PBUH) with clean intentions. Just becuase we aren't pouring billions into what passes for "dawah" the way the Wahabbis are doesn't mean Shia aren't doing what they can to spread Islam.

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12 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

How do unarmed civilians who are only concerned with protecting their families defend themselves from armed and trained Govt. military soldiers? How does an unarmed man stop a swinging sword? 

Are Shia not propogating? I think they are just fine.

Sunni are being funded by Saudi with their own ulterior nefarious reasons behind  it and belive me those reasons are not for spreading the deen of Muhammad (PBUH). Their political and economical greed is the true reasons behind their "propogating" of Islam.

Shia are spreading the deen of Muhammad (PBUH) with clean intentions. Just becuase we aren't pouring billions into what passes for "dawah" the way the Wahabbis are doesn't mean Shia aren't doing what they can to spread Islam.

If Sunnis have ulterior motives in spreading their version of islam. 

That never means Shias should give dawah at large scale like sunnis do. 

Yes if you have pure water and you will make it easily available all will get attracted to it.

But yes if we keep it concealed nonMuslims will go for alternative sources .

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18 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

It depends upon both things, but much more important is the interest of the person who is seeking truth. 

Every one is seeking truth. They see it in Islam that is available easily. 

If we will keep our version of islam easily accessible to nonMuslims definitely they turn to us. 

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Shias have been killed in almost every century. They didn't had power or media for most of this 1400 years then the concept of taqaiyah, pretty less dawah or preachings for their sect and an unmatched hatred propagated against them. Still it's astounding to know we have survived rather we are thriving.  

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2 hours ago, islam25 said:

We know that division amongst Muslims started just after the departure of Prophet saww from this world to Allah. And there wasn't clear cut distinction between Sunnis and shias during the the time of ist four kaliphs. But gradully the distinction widened to the extent of emergence of two major sects. Apparently there should be near equal population in two sects.But why there is gross difference in number between two sects. And why conversation from non muslim to Shia muslim is less than to Sunni Muslims. 

Shia genocide.  

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28 minutes ago, islam25 said:

If Sunnis have ulterior motives in spreading their version of islam. 

That never means Shias should give dawah at large scale like sunnis do. 

Yes if you have pure water and you will make it easily available all will get attracted to it.

But yes if we keep it concealed nonMuslims will go for alternative sources .

when you're only 10-12% of Islam there's only so much you can do.

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Every one is seeking truth. They see it in Islam that is available easily. 

If we will keep our version of islam easily accessible to nonMuslims definitely they turn to us. 

Yes, and everyone in the Muslim world is trying his best to convey the message. 

5 minutes ago, monad said:

because all the guys are on SC looking for a wife. Someone tell them, they do not exist online, we might then get a population increase. :hahaha:

Except me bro. I am not looking for wife, I am looking towards my Mom to have mercy upon my poor soul instead and get me married. :hahaha: 

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Sunnism and christianity have the most offshoot sects than any other religion, therefore this notion of having the majority is somewhat delusional. How can a majority claim to be the correct form of Islam, when they have so many offshoot? This suggest Sunni Islam have not adhered to the correct teachings of Islam, and have created various sects merge from within. 

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Well to be fair, the Safavids did forcibly convert many sunnis in Iran. So I suppose there's that. Otherwise, I think it may just be that historically the only races of people who were shia were Iranian and Desi and a small minority being Arab. In general Desi's and Iranians are very insular. I understand why Shiaism did not take off in India. But the Safavids were quite militarily strong and held off and defeated the Ottomans. Thus I would not say that any Shia genocide occurred in Iran to any real extent since the 1500s. Also it may be that, again, Iranians were quite insular people back then. They were not as concerned with conquest as the Ottoman's and thus mostly kept to themselves strengthening their borders. 

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On 11/7/2017 at 2:29 PM, monad said:

because all the guys are on SC looking for a wife. Someone tell them, they do not exist online, we might then get a population increase. :hahaha:

Maybe someone should tell you that GASP muslim women also constitute 50%  and more of all online muslim matrimonial services... But that can't be right. Monad's paradigm must establish that muslim guys are the only thirsty people out there, and there just CANNOT be muslim women who also do the same thing at the same rate and surprisingly in higher numbers. 

Remember,for every muslim guy out there that is thirsty. There are muslim women that bait him. You solve nothing by only vindicating one gender over the other. I have seen a TON of if not similar in number to muslim men, muslim women scouting the web for that perfect "hubby" as well, of course to no avail. But I suppose that must be a fluke in the system for you, right?

It is very easy to make fun of guys who do a certain behavior, but not so easy when the other gender does the EXACT same thing. 

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On 11/7/2017 at 10:46 PM, Sindbad05 said:

1. Shias did not remain in power to introduce their religion until 16th Century when one of the Persian King took it as objective to propagate the teachings of this religion. So, from 623 till 16th Century most of the area in the Arabian Peninsula and Middle East was governed by the anti-Shia people most of the time.

2. In the beginning of the Caliphate, foreign people thought Abu Bakar to be the real Caliph due to their unawareness regarding civilian instability and all the people in the Arabia regarded Shias as enemy of the Muslims state number one as is now whole of the West considers Islam to be against humanity.

3. Finally, the so called Muslim leaders left no stone unturned in calling Shias to be heretics and Kufar to the extent that they were driven from their areas and many were killed and thus world thought that sitting Caliph is the representative of majority view, therefore, they thought Shias to be a group that has revolted due to political issues but it was not political issue rather religious ones. 

King at that time forcely converted sunnis to shia. Keep in mind that till 16th century zaydi shias were in majority among shias.

In 1501 Isma'il I took the power in Iran and set up the Safavid dynasty. While most of the larger cities of Iran were Sunni, he declared Twelver Shi'ism as the official religion of his empire.

Pre-Safavid Iran

Iran’s population was mostly Sunni of the Shafi`i[3] and Hanafi legal rites until the triumph of the Safavids (who had initially been Shafi`i Sufis themselves).[4] Ironically, this was to the extent that up until the end of the 15th century the Ottoman Empire (the most powerful and prominent Sunni state and future arch-enemy of the Shia Safavids) used to send many of its Ulama (Islamic scholars) to Iran to further their education in Sunni Islam, due to a lack of Madrasahs (Islamic schools) within the Empire itself.[5]The Sunni Iranians had always held the family of Muhammad in high esteem.[6] In contrast, before the Safavid period, a minority of Iranians were Shia and there had been relatively few Shia Ulama in Iran.[7]

Methods of converting Iran

Ismail consolidated his rule over the country and launched a thorough and at times brutal campaign to convert the majority Sunni population to Twelver Shiism and thus transform the religious landscape of Iran.[16] His methods of converting Iran included:

  • Imposing Shiism as the state and mandatory religion for the whole nation and much forcible conversions of Iranian Sufi Sunnis to Shiism.[17][18][19]
  • He reintroduced the Sadr (Arabic, leader) – an office that was responsible for supervising religious institutions and endowments. With a view to transforming Iran into a Shiite state, the Sadr was also assigned the task of disseminating Twelver doctrine.[20]
  • He destroyed Sunni mosques. This was even noted by Tomé Pires, the Portuguese ambassador to China who visited Iran in 1511–12, who when referring to Ismail noted: "He (i.e. Ismail) reforms our churches, destroys the houses of all Moors who follow (the Sunnah of) Muhammad…"[21]
  • He enforced the ritual and compulsory cursing of the first three Sunni Caliphs (Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman) as usurpers, from all mosques, disbanded Sunni Tariqahs and seized their assets, used state patronage to develop Shia shrines, institutions and religious art and imported Shia scholars to replace Sunni scholars.[22][23][24]
  • He shed Sunni blood and destroyed and desecrated the graves and mosques of Sunnis. This caused the Ottoman Sultan Bayezid II (who initially congratulated Ismail on his victories) to advise and ask the young monarch (in a “fatherly” manner) to stop the anti-Sunni actions. However, Ismail was strongly anti-Sunni, ignored the Sultan's warning, and continued to spread the Shia faith by the sword.[25][26]
  • He persecuted, imprisoned and executed stubbornly resistant Sunnis.[27][28]
  • With the establishment of Safavid rule, there was a very raucous and colourful, almost carnival-like holiday on 26 Dhu al-Hijjah (or alternatively, 9 Rabi' al-awwal) celebrating the murder of Caliph Umar. The highlight of the day was making an effigy of Umar to be cursed, insulted, and finally burned. However, as relations between Iran and Sunni countries improved, the holiday was no longer observed (at least officially).[29]
  • In 1501 Ismail invited all the Shia living outside Iran to come to Iran and be assured of protection from the Sunni majority.[30]

In short this is how Iran became a shia state.

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@Munzir Ahmed 

I doubt because you might have taken it from Wikipedia and Wikipedia does not like Iran due to being anti-US and considers that the embassy personal which were held by post-revolutionary government, were innocent. While before that they admitted that Operation Ajax through which they toppled Mosedaq's government were done by CIA within Iran, so tell me where from CIA would launch such coup to oust Mosedaq's government. So, I do not take Wikipedia to be neutral and find it against those who are anti-US. 

Secondly, if there is truth that Ismail I did such oppression, I oppose it because it is against Islamic teachings. However, his such move might have been influenced by various factors such as: Sunni rulers like Hajaj bin Yosuf's propaganda that dubbed Shia as heretics and oppression of Sunni rulers in the adjoining areas such as in the Sub-continent at that time, Ummayad Islam was so common that people considered Shias to be heretics and you can find such examples in Mughal empire during the time of Sher Shah Suri and before that. So, Ismail's such policies could be the result of hardliner attitude of Ibn Timmyah sect bro who know nothing but to create Takfir and destroy Muslim Ummah.

Finally, it was in the beginning Omar I who invaded Persia and it is very difficult for me to accept that it has huge Sunni population because at the time when Abbasids rose in revolt against Ummayad with the slogans to avenge Imam Hussain a.s blood, the Iranians supported Abbasids because they considered Imam Ali Zainul Abideen to be son of their princess which was taken as prisoner by Omer I. So, do you think that Iranian forget that invasion about Omer I and became Sunnis ?

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If you look at the middle east, the ratio between the Shia and Sunni is roughly 60-40% in favour of the Sunni's, which are actually better odds.

The percentage is skewed because of places like Malaysia, Indonesia, and the far east which hold about 300+ muslims. You can not openly practise your faith, nor proselytise. Even in a region like Saudi-Barbaria, the 20% of Shia living there are under intense persecution and barred from good jobs, meaning many have to perform Taqqiyah.

Historically, the followers of ale Muhammed have been butchered and greatly persecuted.

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I must also add, for the Shia, the majority of us follow the twelve Imams. I had read somewhere this was 85-90%. We are united under one Aqeedah and Fiqh [and there's usually only 1% difference between our Ulema on Ijtihad]. The Sunni's on the other hand have several schools of Fiqh, but what is more is that they even differ on fundamental aspects of Aqeedah [Ashari, Maturidi, Athari] and are bitterly divided. The Salafi, Deobandi, Barelvi, Sufi-cults, Nation of Islam, the Nigeria brand of islam and the likes.

We are blessed to all fall under the banner of Jaffer as Sadiq [alayhisalam], who we follow in Fiqh and Aqeedah.

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On ‎07‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 2:16 PM, islam25 said:

We know that division amongst Muslims started just after the departure of Prophet saww from this world to Allah. And there wasn't clear cut distinction between Sunnis and shias during the the time of ist four kaliphs. But gradully the distinction widened to the extent of emergence of two major sects. Apparently there should be near equal population in two sects.But why there is gross difference in number between two sects. And why conversation from non muslim to Shia muslim is less than to Sunni Muslims. 

Because Sunnism spread by the sword at the hands of tyrannical Sultans and militant Tabligh and Dawah. No other group hade so many tyrants to spread their misguidance. We see this example today from Salafiyyah which they spread their misguidance through money, coercion and war. Same like Twelver Shiism is only Shia majority today because the Safavid conversion of Sha Ismael I who was a tyrant who also spread his misguidance by killing.

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On 11/7/2017 at 12:50 PM, islam25 said:

You have rightly mentioned the causes. 

But why today Shia do not have effective dawah system and centres to invite non-muslim towards true Islam just like sunnis and particularly wahhabies have.

The main propagation of Wahhabism stems from the Saudis pumping out millions of oil dollars around the world. The Shia just do not have these resources, which means (like our entire history) we are fighting an uphill battle against them.

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