Hadith Rejectors - Muslim, Hypocrites, etc

[skyweb1987 2,512]

Those who deny the hadith of the prophet saww are called hadith rejectors . They consider normally quran sufficient alone to follow for the religion without recognizing the need to follow the sunna ie sayings or actions of the prophet saww.

What the other Muslims brothers consider these hadith rejectors?  A muslim, hypocrite, kafir, or mis-guided etc?

(Whatever is you opinion ,the evidence of it from quran or hadith may be mentioned too for information /discussion, please).

Wasalam

[Mansur Bakhtiari 1,162]

even worse   -   the people who take what hadith agree with them and reject it when they disagree.

[hoskot 40]

19 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

Those who deny the hadith of the prophet saww are called hadith rejectors . They consider normally quran sufficient alone to follow for the religion without recognizing the need to follow the sunna ie sayings or actions of the prophet saww.

What the other Muslims brothers consider these hadith rejectors?  A muslim, hypocrite, kafir, or mis-guided etc?

(Whatever is you opinion ,the evidence of it from quran or hadith may be mentioned too for information /discussion, please).

Wasalam

i did went thru their forum. in my limited knowledge, the usual "how to refute anti-hadith" does not work simply because they have their own interpretation of the quran. i got 2 such translations with me. what is interesting, they differ among themselves. something to be expected when using own opinions.

and one hardcore among them is forwarding the argument: sex before marriage is permissible. Na'uzubillah.

[skyweb1987 2,512]

@Salsabeel  @power  @Sindbad05  @shiaman14  @S.M.H.A. 

@just a muslim

I like to add the following in this concern:

And when it is said to them “Come, the Messenger of Allah will pray for your forgiveness”, they turn aside their heads, and thou wouldst see them turning away their faces in arrogance. [Qur’an, The Hypocrites, 63:5]

When it is said to them: ‘Come to what Allah hath revealed and to the Messenger’: thou seest the Hypocrites avert their faces from thee in disgust. [Qur’an, The Women, 4:61]

A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new knowledge. [Qur’an, The Cow, 2:151]

(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought. [Qur’an, The Bee, 16:44]

Lo! those who disbelieve and turn from the way of Allah and oppose the messenger after the guidance hath been manifested unto them, they hurt Allah not a jot, and He will make their actions fruitless. O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the messenger, and render not your actions vain. [Qur’an, Surah Muhammad, 47:32-33]

We sent not a Messenger but to be obeyed, in accordance with the Will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves come unto thee and asked Allah’s forgiveness and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. But no, by thy Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction. [Qur’an, The Women, 4:64-65]

Had We sent down this Qur’an on a mountain, verily, thou would have seen it humble itself and cleave asunder for fear of Allah, such are the similitudes which We propound to men, that they may reflect. [Qur’an, The Exile, 59:21]

Say: “O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He that giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believed in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided.” [Qur’an, The Heights, 7:158]

Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the praise of Allah. [Qur’an, The Combined Forces, 33:21]

Say: “If ye do love Allah, follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [Qur’an, The Family of Imran, 3:31]

No, by your Lord, they will not become true believers until they put you [Muhammad] as a ruler in that which they dispute. [Qur’an, The Women, 4:65]

O Ye who believe! Put not yourselves forward before Allah and His Messenger; but fear Allah: for Allah is He Who hears and knows all things. O ye who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him in talk, as ye may speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds become vain and ye perceive not. [Qur’an, The Rooms, 49:1-2]

Allah and His angels, send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! send ye blessings on him and salute him, with all respect. [Qur’an, The Combined Forces, 33:56]

And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character. [Qur’an, The Pen, 68:4]

Conclusion

It is quite clear from the numerous above-mentioned verses that there is no room in the Qur’an to disregard the teachings and examples of Prophet Muhammad  (peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him). The movement of hadith-rejectors is nothing more than a movement of hypocrites trying to destroy Islam, as was done to other religions. The Qur’an cannot be changed, which drives the enemies of Islam to other tactics.

 They have made their oaths a screen (for their misdeeds): thus they obstruct (men) from the Path of Allah: truly evil are their deeds. [Qur’an, The Hypocrites, 49:1]

Edited November 4, 2017 by skyweb1987

[power 1,185]

Salam brother, I'm honoured that you have invited me into your  discussion.

Inshallah will respond soon.

 W/Salaam

[Sindbad05 2,045]

Yes, that's true, Hadith rejectors have no place in Islam.

[skyweb1987 2,512]

12 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Yes, that's true, Hadith rejectors have no place in Islam.

It is very true statement brother,

The verses provided in my last post provide clear evidence that the hadith rejecters are considered hypocrites or misguided.

Allah describes them as hypocrites, the people who turn away from the Messenger. And then Allah reminds us that He sent Messengers to be obeyed! Not just revelation, not just scriptures sent down from the heavens, but Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى sent us Messengers as well. Then He سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى tells us that true belief and submission is to make Muhammad, the final messenger, who was sent to all of mankind, a judge over their matters.

Edited November 5, 2017 by skyweb1987

[just a muslim 119]

i dont know what the definition of a kaafir is, according to quran and hadith(any of them), so i try not to declare any ideology as kafir. but yes, i do believe them to be misguided at least.

[power 1,185]

 

Hadith rejectors will make us believe the Quran is easy to understand, and Rasulillah (pbuh@hf) mission was to only to deliver the message. Really? The fact is; with hadith rejectors the have no giudance from any scholars or Imams, where as other school of thoughts have Imams or scholars who have spent many years studying to guide the ummaah. 

Furthermore, i  won't hesitate to say, most of the worlds Muslims population cannot help the feeling that there are many verses  in the Quran whose actual meaning and intention cannot be understood by a reader of Arabic only from the words of the Quran. 

 Surah Al- Qiyamah we can see that the Almighty has given Rasulillah complete knowledge of the Quran. 

75:17 Surely it is for us to have you commit to memory and recite it

75:18 And so when we recite it, follow its recitation attentively

And this verse is very important verse 75:19 Then it will be for us to explain it.

Explain it to whom ? We know that holy Quran does not have any explanation of the verses in the Quran, therefore Allah swt  explained every verse and its meaning of the Quran to Rasulillah.

This clearly proves the Rasulillah did not receive only the revelation which is recorded in the Quran, he was also given such knowledge by revelation as it not mentioned in the Quran. These explanation of the words of the Quran that Allah had taught Rasulillah was none other than  recording of Hadith and its explanation.

[skyweb1987 2,512]

@power

Nice explanation as usual you provide at SC

[ShiaMan14 6,536]

Salaam br. @skyweb1987,

Thank you for inviting me to this discussion.

I believe hadith-rejectors or Quranists or anyone who says and believes in "hasbona kitaballah" is a munafiq - a fraud pretending to be Muslim. We can also refer to them as khawarij.

Some of them even go as far say claiming their kalima to be "La Ilahaillah" only.

They believe the Prophet (saw) was meant to only deliver the message and not even explain it to us.

I had an interesting conversation with a quranist on SC a few months ago. He stated that the Quran is sufficient for him. So I asked him if he had read any other book...ever. Of course he said yes. So I asked him if this was shirk or a sin since he read a book other than the Quran even though he believes the Quran is enough.

So his statement changed from "Quran is enough" to "Quran is enough for religion, and we can use other books for other aspects of life". So I challenged him to show where the Quran draws a line between how much we can rely on the Quran and when/where we need to look elsewhere.

Once a Quranist accepts reading another book regardless of what it is, he breaks his own rule that the Quran is enough.

The Quran is a reference guide for us to use in light of the hadeeth of the Prophet (saw).

[skyweb1987 2,512]

28 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Salaam br. @skyweb1987,

Thank you for inviting me to this discussion.

I believe hadith-rejectors or Quranists or anyone who says and believes in "hasbona kitaballah" is a munafiq - a fraud pretending to be Muslim. We can also refer to them as khawarij.

Some of them even go as far say claiming their kalima to be "La Ilahaillah" only.

They believe the Prophet (saw) was meant to only deliver the message and not even explain it to us.

Brother, your view is always more logical and full of experience with different people.

The quoted view in bold is the actual interpretation in the light of the verses of quran. Your statement is correct such people are munafiq. Since they have rejected even the prophet saww for the explanation of the religion, after wards they come to the acceptance of Allah swt. alone. 

And after some time when they remain unable to get he correct meaning of quranic verses, it can potentially  lead them to atheism as they do not have a way back.

Thanks for your comments, wasalam

[Fink 301]

I don't understand the allegation that QURANISTS interpret the Qur'an friviliously or without guidance.

What do hadithists have? A golden book that explains the Qur'an ? Or numerous books that are 90-95% percent unreliable (majhool,  fabricated etc) according to Shia scholars like Syed Alkhoei Ra. 

Let's ponder on this, there were numerous Qur'an readings, yet the Imams never clarified to Shias which reading is correct. If it was clarified then it indicates how weak the hadithists position is because today no Shia conclusively knows the right reading. 

Sunni Imams were taught by Imam Jaafer Alsadiq, yet they never got the idea he was appointed by God (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

We don't even know how many children the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had. 

The hadiths have unholy gaps , how can we say it is hujjah and claim it guides to the Sunnah?

 

[Leibniz 71]

One way or the other , we all are "Hadith rejectors" of some sort. The Shias would reject most of the Sunni Hadiths and the Sunnis would reject the Shias Hadith. Then with in Shias and Sunnis , people would reject Hadiths based on their own subsectarian affiliations. The huge collections of Sunni and Shia hadiths have some extremely problematic Hadiths which defy Qur'an , logic , human rational and science. Pick up any book of Hadith , if you can read Arabic pick up Al-Kafi and start reading random hadiths , you shall find out that most of the Hadiths are bizarre and what we hear from the pulpits are either selective Hadiths or the watered down translations of Hadiths. I don't think so that most of the Muslim youth 50 years from now shall take Hadiths seriously , given the fact that most of the Hadith resources are available online.

There are various types of "Hadith rejectors". Some are pure pure naturalists or Deists and other are a bit moderate in their approach. I myself place myself in the later category. I think we can take Hadiths as historical references and unless the Tawatur of a Hadith is not proven , we should not extract theology from it. Thats the common sense approach.

[Faruk 983]

The irony of the claim is that every sect has its own ahaadith collection and therefore anyone who identifies oneself with a sect is rejecting the ahaadith collection of the other.

As there is no universal ahaadith collection accepted by all sects it's too complex to judge those who are critical towards ahaadith.

I am not a ahaadith rejector but I believe all sects coloured their ahaadith collection with their political and creedal preferences.

But it's hard to acknowledge this when one identifies himself with a sect unconditionally.

Edited February 17 by Faruk

[Fink 301]

13 minutes ago, Leibniz said:

I think we can take Hadiths as historical references and unless the Tawatur of a Hadith is not proven , we should not extract theology from it. Thats the common sense approach.

Bingo. Absolutely agree on that methodology.

[Reza 9,896]

1 hour ago, Fink said:

hadithists

Is this a word you made up? I've never heard this anywhere before.

[Fink 301]

33 minutes ago, Reza said:

Is this a word you made up? I've never heard this anywhere before.

Im not sure if it has been used before but I use hadithist to describe a person that gives hadith superiority over Qur'an, whether implicitly or explicitly.

It can present in two different methods:

1) Introduction of an entirely new concept , like khums as understood today and detracting Quranic Zakat by limiting it to livestock, metals etc. 

Or

2) Taking a contradictory position to the Qur'an 

[Faruk 983]

5 minutes ago, Fink said:

Im not sure if it has been used before but I use hadithist to describe a person that gives hadith superiority over Qur'an, whether implicitly or explicitly.

It can present in two different methods:

1) Introduction of an entirely new concept , like khums as understood today and detracting Quranic Zakat by limiting it to livestock, metals etc. 

Or

2) Taking a contradictory position to the Qur'an 

Nice term and very comprehensive reply. The above methods are exactly what bothers me.

Or ahaadith are used to give a meaning to a verse which is totally out of context or just to add something to Islam which is contradicting al-Qur'an.

 

Edited February 17 by Faruk

[Reza 9,896]

16 minutes ago, Fink said:

Im not sure if it has been used before but I use hadithist to describe a person that gives hadith superiority over Qur'an, whether implicitly or explicitly.

 It can present in two different methods:

1) Introduction of an entirely new concept , like khums as understood today and detracting Quranic Zakat by limiting it to livestock, metals etc. 

Or

2) Taking a contradictory position to the Qur'an 

I think most scholars and rational people understand Qur'an and hadith are studied synonymously in their proper place and context, and not creating artificial barriers. 

The "Calamity of Thursday", in my limited understanding, is a telling story of dangers of the "Qur'an is enough for us" mentality. 

Otherwise, Quranism has been dubunked extensively on this site, and I encourage others to read those.