Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Why every time I that I mention Jesus and my love for him, the Muslim person I am speaking with goes into this script, (I feel like it is a script because diverse people have used the same words verbatim), of how they love Jesus too. They say, "One cannot be Muslim unless he believes in Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus more than you" 

Honestly, this shows a great misunderstanding in the Muslim's person understanding. Do Muslim people realize that Christians do not love Jesus like as a prophet, we do not love him a religious duty. We surely do not love him in the context of a person from the Islamic faith would love him. We do not relate nor believe in him as someone from the Islamic faith. They might as well be two completely different people. (They have different life stories, deaths, resurrection, and prophecies told in the Koran and the Bible).

Do Muslim people understand that when a Christian expresses their love for Jesus, they are referring to a love deeper than that of a mother, a child, or a husband/wife? This is a love of "savior", meaning: I was dead and he gave me life. I was poor and he gave me riches. I had ashes, he gave me beauty. He not only gave me life, but a blessed, abundant beautiful. I owe him my life.

To me, this type of response to a Christian who talks about their love for Jesus reveals a wide gap of understanding from the Muslim person. Do you owe Jesus your life, did he stay with all night when you were alone and no one was there, did he sing to you songs and comfort and fill your heart with life, truth, and love? If not, then please don't tell me you love him, because you don't know him to love him. How do you love what you do not know? Maybe you love the idea of him, but not him.

For example, a weak analogy would be you sharing about the birth of your son, and how much your son means to you and he is your life and your joy and your pride. The person you speak with who has never seen your son, nor knows him, says, "I love him too, more than you, I love him so much". He then says, "What's his name, I forgot" and goes his life without ever spending any time with or buying anything for your son. You would say, "Do not tell me you love my son, your words are just lip service, and flattery". Lip service and words are increasingly meaningless in this world when they have no action behind them.

Does this frustration make sense, I always remind myself, the Muslim person has the best intention to make good relations with me, but they just do not understand as they should.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's an interesting question and I'm sure you'll get some well thought out replies. 

I'm mulling over the question right now, trying to think of a way to answer inoffensively. I have an answer, I don't have the right words yet, but it boils down to perception. 

One question though: why do you think Christians "own" Jesus? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, notme said:

That's an interesting question and I'm sure you'll get some well thought out replies. 

I'm mulling over the question right now, trying to think of a way to answer inoffensively. I have an answer, I don't have the right words yet, but it boils down to perception. 

One question though: why do you think Christians "own" Jesus? 

Quran" desire a god other than the God of Noah, Allah-s.w.t.

Christian: Breaking the 1st Commandment and "your god is a Jealous God"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't doubt that you feel more love towards your conception of Jesus than most Muslims feels towards their idea of who Jesus was. But just as you would know doubt say that you can't claim to love Jesus without truly knowing him (as Lord and Saviour), we would say that ascribing what from our perspective are blasphemous attributes to him is not the correct way to show love towards him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jesus a.s is an important figure in our book. What is wrong with that?

The only difference is that you love him as a God, while we love him as a man and prophet. 

The description of your love sounds similar to ones love towards God. But in islam God cant be two. it doesnt make sense.. why would Jesus invite you to worship God if he was God.he would then say "worship me".

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Journal1 said:

Do Muslim people understand that when a Christian expresses their love for Jesus, they are referring to a love deeper than that of a mother, a child, or a husband/wife? This is a love of "savior", meaning: I was dead and he gave me life. I was poor and he gave me riches. I had ashes, he gave me beauty. He not only gave me life, but a blessed, abundant beautiful. I owe him my life.

To me, this type of response to a Christian who talks about their love for Jesus reveals a wide gap of understanding from the Muslim person. Do you owe Jesus your life, did he stay with all night when you were alone and no one was there, did he sing to you songs and comfort and fill your heart with life, truth, and love? If not, then please don't tell me you love him, because you don't know him to love him. How do you love what you do not know? Maybe you love the idea of him, but not him.

For example, a weak analogy would be you sharing about the birth of your son, and how much your son means to you and he is your life and your joy and your pride. The person you speak with who has never seen your son, nor knows him, says, "I love him too, more than you, I love him so much". He then says, "What's his name, I forgot" and goes his life without ever spending any time with or buying anything for your son. You would say, "Do not tell me you love my son, your words are just lip service, and flattery". Lip service and words are increasingly meaningless in this world when they have no action behind them.

First of all, when we claim that we love him more than you, we mean it. The reason of this is that we do not attribute lies to him that he a.s is God for which he did not say anything such as pray me for he a.s used to eat, he walked on earth and died while for a God eating, walking and death are irrelevant for He is not in need of anything, if He is in need of anything such as food, feet and life then He is dependent and dependent is not God. God is independent in our belief. 

We believe him more than our parents for God says in Quran that right of Prophet Muhammad PBUHHP should be more than your parents that if your parents are infidels and hamper your way to religion then leave them and stay with Islam and Prophet. And also in Quran, it is written, a Muslim does not distinguish between prophets in terms of love and respect. So, for Jesus we can die and we can kill for him. 

Finally, you are not an authority to ask us to love Jesus as you will and attribute to him blasphemies which he disliked for him such as calling him as God. Religion is not your property, We will love Jesus as he a.s wanted us. And he a.s asked us to pray to God and follow his quotes. So, he a.s is around us, advices us and when we request him for intercession, he listens us. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, how about an analogy? 

Imagine a marriage in which a husband believes his wife is a hero, the most amazing woman in the world, far beyond the wife he could ever deserve. Highest in intelligence, wisdom, compassion, piousness, and beauty. No doubt he loves her.

But does he love her more than the husband who sees his wonderful and lovely wife as what she is: a human being?

Edited by notme
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

To me, this type of response to a Christian who talks about their love for Jesus reveals a wide gap of understanding from the Muslim person. Do you owe Jesus your life, did he stay with all night when you were alone and no one was there, did he sing to you songs and comfort and fill your heart with life, truth, and love? If not, then please don't tell me you love him, because you don't know him to love him. How do you love what you do not know? Maybe you love the idea of him, but not him.

What do you exactly mean that we don't know him to love him. Will Jesus (a) not love a person who not only follow his teaching but also practices and act upon it every teaching possible in every situation of his life? Christians or Muslims claims to love Jesus, but rarely they have love in him, how can there be love when the person disobeys God often and rarely they repent. It is like they are just mocking Jesus rather than loving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Journal1 said:

Why every time I that I mention Jesus and my love for him, the Muslim person I am speaking with goes into this script, (I feel like it is a script because diverse people have used the same words verbatim), of how they love Jesus too. They say, "One cannot be Muslim unless he believes in Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus more than you" 

Honestly, this shows a great misunderstanding in the Muslim's person understanding. Do Muslim people realize that Christians do not love Jesus like as a prophet, we do not love him a religious duty. We surely do not love him in the context of a person from the Islamic faith would love him. We do not relate nor believe in him as someone from the Islamic faith. They might as well be two completely different people. (They have different life stories, deaths, resurrection, and prophecies told in the Koran and the Bible).

Do Muslim people understand that when a Christian expresses their love for Jesus, they are referring to a love deeper than that of a mother, a child, or a husband/wife? This is a love of "savior", meaning: I was dead and he gave me life. I was poor and he gave me riches. I had ashes, he gave me beauty. He not only gave me life, but a blessed, abundant beautiful. I owe him my life.

To me, this type of response to a Christian who talks about their love for Jesus reveals a wide gap of understanding from the Muslim person. Do you owe Jesus your life, did he stay with all night when you were alone and no one was there, did he sing to you songs and comfort and fill your heart with life, truth, and love? If not, then please don't tell me you love him, because you don't know him to love him. How do you love what you do not know? Maybe you love the idea of him, but not him.

For example, a weak analogy would be you sharing about the birth of your son, and how much your son means to you and he is your life and your joy and your pride. The person you speak with who has never seen your son, nor knows him, says, "I love him too, more than you, I love him so much". He then says, "What's his name, I forgot" and goes his life without ever spending any time with or buying anything for your son. You would say, "Do not tell me you love my son, your words are just lip service, and flattery". Lip service and words are increasingly meaningless in this world when they have no action behind them.

Does this frustration make sense, I always remind myself, the Muslim person has the best intention to make good relations with me, but they just do not understand as they should.

just read the first sentences but the muslims you spoke or heard say that do not represent but themselfs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Journal1 said:

Why every time I that I mention Jesus and my love for him, the Muslim person I am speaking with goes into this script, (I feel like it is a script because diverse people have used the same words verbatim), of how they love Jesus too. They say, "One cannot be Muslim unless he believes in Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus more than you" 

Honestly, this shows a great misunderstanding in the Muslim's person understanding. Do Muslim people realize that Christians do not love Jesus like as a prophet, we do not love him a religious duty. We surely do not love him in the context of a person from the Islamic faith would love him. We do not relate nor believe in him as someone from the Islamic faith. They might as well be two completely different people. (They have different life stories, deaths, resurrection, and prophecies told in the Koran and the Bible).

Do Muslim people understand that when a Christian expresses their love for Jesus, they are referring to a love deeper than that of a mother, a child, or a husband/wife? This is a love of "savior", meaning: I was dead and he gave me life. I was poor and he gave me riches. I had ashes, he gave me beauty. He not only gave me life, but a blessed, abundant beautiful. I owe him my life.

To me, this type of response to a Christian who talks about their love for Jesus reveals a wide gap of understanding from the Muslim person. Do you owe Jesus your life, did he stay with all night when you were alone and no one was there, did he sing to you songs and comfort and fill your heart with life, truth, and love? If not, then please don't tell me you love him, because you don't know him to love him. How do you love what you do not know? Maybe you love the idea of him, but not him.

For example, a weak analogy would be you sharing about the birth of your son, and how much your son means to you and he is your life and your joy and your pride. The person you speak with who has never seen your son, nor knows him, says, "I love him too, more than you, I love him so much". He then says, "What's his name, I forgot" and goes his life without ever spending any time with or buying anything for your son. You would say, "Do not tell me you love my son, your words are just lip service, and flattery". Lip service and words are increasingly meaningless in this world when they have no action behind them.

Does this frustration make sense, I always remind myself, the Muslim person has the best intention to make good relations with me, but they just do not understand as they should.

Hello

Jesus is not a property that some Christians believe they own him and every other religion goes to hell. I remember how US movie industry make movies to make fun of Jesus and Moses. What did churches do for that??

If my father order me to do something and my beloved Jesus to something else, what would you think I'll do? Absolutely, I follow Jesus. 

For your question let's go to Quran and find the answer. Quran, Al-Bagharah Sourah, Page 21:

قولو أمنا بالله و ما أنزل الینا و ما أنزل إلی ابراهیم و اسماعیل و اسحاق و یعقوب و الاسباط و ما اوتی موسی و عیسی لانفرق بین أحد منهم و نحن له مسلمون

Translation: Tell them(Christians and Jews) that we believe in what is sent to us and sent to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Joseph and his posterity, and we follow what is given to Moses and what is given to Jesus. We don't differentiate them and we completely submit to them.

 

That is Quran. I am not only Mohammad follower, I'm Moses, Jesus and all previous prophets follower according to Quran, and I'm proud of it.

 

You said you love Jesus. Let's go and take a look at bible.

"She said to the servant, "Who is that man walking in the field to meet us?" And the servant said, "He is my master." Then she took her veil and covered herself.". (Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Veils)

Why don't Christian women cover themselves? If they love him, they must follow him. There is a lot of these in bible. It's a good idea to take a look at your book. Muslim women cover themselves because they LOVE Mohammad truly. We show our love by ACTIONS not in words.

 

I don't expect my answers to affect on you because Quran says:

و لن ترضی عنک الیهود و لاالنصاری حتی تتبع ملتهم

Translation: Whatever reason you bring for them, they won't follow you till you follow them(Of course we have some good verses in Quran for good truth seeker Christians too)

 

 

Edited by AmirAlmuminin Lover

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 6:47 AM, notme said:

One question though: why do you think Christians "own" Jesus? 

I never used the word, but interesting that you picked up this relationship of "ownership".

Although he is mine in the sense that he is so personal to me, as I am to him, I would not say I "own" him. I would proudly say he "owns" me and I belong to him. The Bible teaches that Jesus bought (purchased) us with a price (his blood). He redeemed us from death and the grave. So their is a definite relationship of ownership there.

To your point - No Christian "owns" the Lord. We "have" him indeed. The bible says

Galatians 2:20

"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me."

I John 3:24

"The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

Colossians 1:27

"to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory"

I can go on and on with more scriptures of the relationship of having Jesus life in us as a born again believer, but I will end this way:

My sentiment is I "Have" Jesus. I do not own him. As someone who has him, I offer him to everyone. He is the best thing that happened to me and can truly help anyone and heal them and truly has power to his name. 

Therefore when I hear him referenced by those whom say they "have him/know him" and they see him as a  prophet of God and no different from Prophet Mohamad, of course I am churned inside because I know they are not talking about the same Christ or person I know and love. Even in Arabic (and to Christian Arabs) his name is يسوع (Yesu3)

The Koran has the name sounds like "Issa". So truly we are speaking of different persons. Maybe I should lay that line down to prevent further misunderstanding?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 6:58 AM, hasanhh said:

Quran" desire a god other than the God of Noah, Allah-s.w.t.

Christian: Breaking the 1st Commandment and "your god is a Jealous God"

The Christian faith teaches that God himself came down in human form. He was born of a virgin named Mary in a manger (not under a palm tree as in the Koran). He fulfilled the perfect Law of Moses because he is perfect, the only one perfect because he is God (in the form of man). And then if this is not unbelievable enough, he died a gruesome, shameful death on the cross for sinners (me and you). He made a way for us to know him. When you believe in Jesus, you are saved by faith and not by works (this is not a performance based religion like Islam) this is about "faith" in Christ. Also when you believe in Jesus your understanding is lit up with the knowledge of the Love of God. This death was God showing his love for us. God is not up in the heavens, not caring about us. No - he loves us, and he came down to this filth we live in and became sin so that we can become righteous, the scripture says "he who knew no sin, became sin that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus". This is love. We know God as "Father" because the Spirit of his Son lives in us and cries "Abba Father" (Abba=Hebrew for Father). Jesus is literally the life in us. The life of God in us and we have authority in this place. That is why we are no longer slaves to sin. Truly our hearts our changed by this power of God. There is no need to lower your gaze when the eye of your heart is so pure you see the world through the light of him. The light of life. This is what Jesus does. It is not all at once, it is a process, but I am in that process now and it is amazing.

1 John 2:22

"Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son can have the Father: whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well."

John 8:19

"Where is Your Father?" they asked Him. "You do not know Me or My Father," Jesus answered. "If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well."

I John 5:20

"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true--in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

 

I felt this need to explain Christianity to you because your comment showed that you did not understand that to believers in Jesus, he is God. Also we could not brag about our love for him, but we can brag about his love for us. He loved us while we were still sinners. It is not like we are so good and came to God, no we were SAVED, and God came to us and reached us. I love him for this and everyday I try to love him more, even though it will never compare to the love he has shown me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 7:19 AM, Haydar Husayn said:

 we would say that ascribing what from our perspective are blasphemous attributes to him is not the correct way to show love towards him.

Do you understand that this is this is the very exactly my point. 

Ascribing from my perspective blasphemous attributes about Jesus is not the correct way to show love for him. (This sums up root of my frustration)

To my knowledge:

Islam is full of references to Christianity. The main prayer says, "God has no Son... Mohamad is his Prophet". This from my understanding of truth is blasphemous (no offense)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Journal1 said:

Do you understand that this is this is the very exactly my point. 

Ascribing from my perspective blasphemous attributes about Jesus is not the correct way to show love for him. (This sums up root of my frustration)

To my knowledge:

Islam is full of references to Christianity. The main prayer says, "God has no Son... Mohamad is his Prophet". This from my understanding of truth is blasphemous (no offense)

No offence taken. It seems we share the same frustration then, just from opposite sides.

I'm not sure which prayer you are referring to, but although there are reference to God not having a son, and Muhammad being a prophet of God, I'm not aware of those statements being combined in anything that could be referred to as the 'main prayer'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Journal1 said:

The Koran has the name sounds like "Issa". So truly we are speaking of different persons.

Well that's kind of silly. A Spanish speaking person says "Hey - soos". Does a Spanish speaking Christian worship a different god than an English speaking Christian? 

Other biblical names that are pronounced differently in different languages include Eve, Moses, Abraham, Joseph, Noah, Hannah, Rebecca, Leah, Hajar, Sarah, Joshua, Job, Isaiah, .... need I go on? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 7:54 AM, kirtc said:

Jesus a.s is an important figure in our book. What is wrong with that?

The only difference is that you love him as a God, while we love him as a man and prophet. 

The description of your love sounds similar to ones love towards God. But in islam God cant be two. it doesnt make sense.. why would Jesus invite you to worship God if he was God.he would then say "worship me".

 

When you are in the face of the real God, in the presence of unspeakable light, holiness, pureness, truth, power...

He does not need to say "Worship me".

You fall on your face and just weep because it is overwhelming. In my understanding, God does not need to command people to worship him. Jesus is not a dictator, and neither is God.

Worship is not something I do because I was commanded, Worship is something I do because he is worthy.

We love his as Lord, as God, as Savior, as our everything, the light of the World, I can go on forever. You say you love him as "a man and prophet", maybe the word respect is more fitting. You "respect" him.

For instance I never say "I love Abraham" or "I love the Prophet Isaiah" or "I love Moses". I respect them and inside I feel love for them as my fellow brethren in the Lord, but I am not "in" love with them as I am with Jesus. Jesus is completely different. They are men with shortcomings and so forth...

Jesus is different because he is active in my life, walking with me. Do you see this disparity in our understandings? This is my point.

And also all the words and blessed scriptures and stories from the scriptures from the prophets of God were all inspired by God. I do not read the Psalms and think, God bless David and thank you David for writing this, I say thank you Lord for your word! The Prophets were men used by God, just like today, God uses men. I do not ascribe to them this deep love. 

Regarding love for Prophets, ometimes does it not seem Islam ascribes too much of an emphasis on men (we both agree the were men), especially the Prophet Mohamad? Nearly Worshipping him, by following his every step and word...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Journal1 said:

To your point - No Christian "owns" the Lord. We "have" him indeed. The bible says

Ok then. Semantics. Why do you think you (only) "have" Jesus? Does this extend to others who are a part of your beliefs? Do only Christians have a right to love Moses, Abraham, and Adam as well, or do you not "have" the predecessors of Jesus?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Journal1 said:

Regarding love for Prophets, ometimes does it not seem Islam ascribes too much of an emphasis on men (we both agree the were men), especially the Prophet Mohamad? Nearly Worshipping him, by following his every step and word...

Taking guidance from those who have wisdom is just good sense.

Worshipping any person is idolatry, and would remove one from Islam. 

Edited by notme
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 9:52 AM, Sindbad05 said:

First of all, when we claim that we love him more than you, we mean it. The reason of this is that we do not attribute lies to him that he a.s is God for which he did not say anything such as pray me for he a.s used to eat, he walked on earth and died while for a God eating, walking and death are irrelevant for He is not in need of anything, if He is in need of anything such as food, feet and life then He is dependent and dependent is not God. God is independent in our belief. 

We believe him more than our parents for God says in Quran that right of Prophet Muhammad PBUHHP should be more than your parents that if your parents are infidels and hamper your way to religion then leave them and stay with Islam and Prophet. And also in Quran, it is written, a Muslim does not distinguish between prophets in terms of love and respect. So, for Jesus we can die and we can kill for him. 

Finally, you are not an authority to ask us to love Jesus as you will and attribute to him blasphemies which he disliked for him such as calling him as God. Religion is not your property, We will love Jesus as he a.s wanted us. And he a.s asked us to pray to God and follow his quotes. So, he a.s is around us, advices us and when we request him for intercession, he listens us. 

"we mean it" 

How much do you love him, enough to actually read the bible and everything it says about him?

Brother we both know that you believe the bible has lies, and I believe the Koran has lies but to have a respectful conversation, must we speak this way?

These things you speak of as being so below God is the reason we love him all the more. Guess what else he did other than eat, pray, sleep, walk (he walked on water too), die, resurrect- he also ate with tax collectors and "sinners", he touched people with leprosy (they were untouchable and considered unclean). He rode into the city of Jerusalem - not on a horse, not on a camel, or elephant as the other "great and important people" of the day, he rode on a donkey. A donkey. A king riding on a donkey. Jesus changed everything and he did everything different than what people expected of him.

"Stay with Islam and the Prophet?" Do you worship Islam and the Prophet or do you worship God brother?

"Kill for Jesus" - Brother please, This is not the way of Christ. Jesus would never have you kill, he came to give life and life more abundantly. When the people came to arrest Jesus, Peter the disciple cut off one of the soldiers ear. There in the garden of Gethsemane Jesus healed the soldiers ear right then. He said those that live by the sword will die by the sword. Jesus always tells about the Spiritual battle, not one with flesh. Never kill, this is against the divine law of God.

Religion is not at all my property. And you are free to say you love Jesus all you want, and follow whatever teachings you want. This is your freedom God gave you.

But you certainly are referring to a different sentiment than a follower of Jesus for his Lord. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, notme said:

Ok, how about an analogy? 

Imagine a marriage in which a husband believes his wife is a hero, the most amazing woman in the world, far beyond the wife he could ever deserve. Highest in intelligence, wisdom, compassion, piousness, and beauty. No doubt he loves her.

But does he love her more than the husband who sees his wonderful and lovely wife as what she is: a human being?

Good analogy, it makes me smile.

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I assume love is in the heart of the holder, and no one knows its depth.

I can only answer this way, I would rather be married to the first husband lol He seems like he loves her more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Journal1 said:

When you believe in Jesus, you are saved by faith and not by works (this is not a performance based religion like Islam) this is about "faith" in Christ.

Im not sure what you mean by a 'performance based religion', but in Islam faith is more important than works (although both are necessary). Anyone that believes has a chance of being saved, even if they don't pray or fast. On the other hand, someone that prays and fasts but doesn't have faith won't be saved. Works are the way in which we show our obedience to God. As it says in James 2:14-17:

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

What do you exactly mean that we don't know him to love him. Will Jesus (a) not love a person who not only follow his teaching but also practices and act upon it every teaching possible in every situation of his life? Christians or Muslims claims to love Jesus, but rarely they have love in him, how can there be love when the person disobeys God often and rarely they repent. It is like they are just mocking Jesus rather than loving.

If you study the teaching of Jesus in another book other than your own, you will come across a difference in the Character between the two persons. You will find a difference of practices as well, a difference of everything. You will certainly find out more about Jesus. One thing is the same, that the Koran also testifies that Jesus healed people (which is not even given to the most notable Prophet in Islam- Mohamad)

I agree, many people say left and right they love Jesus, yes even "Christians" they come to church on Sunday and party on Saturday and get drunk. It is a mockery. 

The crazier part is, God still loves them and wants them to know his love. 

If you read Paul in the Epistles he was talking about how, "Christ died for sinners, of who I am the chief", Paul was a radical Jewish leader who killed Christians before (having a vision (long story)) and becoming a Christian and writing much of the new testament. Honestly, many people feel this way, like the worst sinner and grateful for Christ and it serves as a testimony that it is never too late, you could never do something so bad that God will not love you and accept you if you call on his name. We believe in forgiveness in Christ and eternal life. So I never look down on anyone. I invite prostitutes, gang members, business colleagues to my home and to my church if they want. Jesus is for everyone not just people born into religion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Journal1 said:

These things you speak of as being so below God is the reason we love him all the more. Guess what else he did other than eat, pray, sleep, walk (he walked on water too), die, resurrect- he also ate with tax collectors and "sinners", he touched people with leprosy (they were untouchable and considered unclean). He rode into the city of Jerusalem - not on a horse, not on a camel, or elephant as the other "great and important people" of the day, he rode on a donkey. A donkey. A king riding on a donkey. Jesus changed everything and he did everything different than what people expected of him.

"Stay with Islam and the Prophet?" Do you worship Islam and the Prophet or do you worship God brother?

"Kill for Jesus"

Well. he a.s was a prophet and it is through prophet that we are taught that there is no difference between rich and poor and, it is due to Jesus a.s and other prophets before him and the last Prophet PBUHHP after him that a sane Muslims feels afraid of Poor's curse because the voice of oppressed is near to God. There is no dissimilarity between your claim and mine except that I have a better understanding of Jesus than you who consider him a God but I do not. And, secondly, I believe in whatever Jesus said except lies attributed to him....Do you consider homosexuality an accursed sin or not ? I do because Jesus did also believe that. Do you believe in marriages or out of wedlock relationships like gf and bf type of ? I believe in marriage which Jesus believed. So, we Muslims have more common ideologies than the Christians themselves. 

Secondly, I will surely kill for Jesus, the reason of this is that "If anyone kills an innocent life, Jesus like other prophets allows two options for the deceased's relatives either to be paid with indemnity or blood money or to that kill the oppressor". I would stand with the deceased's relatives and thus plead for kill and if I get to make that oppressor to gallows, I would surely do it. This is justice. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Journal1 said:

God does not need to command people to worship him. Jesus is not a dictator, and neither is God.

Really?

Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' (Matthew 4:10)

There are numerous passages in the Old Testament where God commands His people to worship Him, to love Him, to worship no other than Him, and that He is a jealous God. Meanwhile in the Book of Revelation, Jesus comes back and kills all his enemies, presumably in order to bring in the state in which 'every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess to God' (Romans 14:11). So it seems highly questionable to say that God doesn't need to command people to worship Him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

Hello

Jesus is not a property that some Christians believe they own him and every other religion goes to hell. I remember how US movie industry make movies to make fun of Jesus and Moses. What did churches do for that??

If my father order me to do something and my beloved Jesus to something else, what would you think I'll do? Absolutely, I follow Jesus. 

For your question let's go to Quran and find the answer. Quran, Al-Bagharah Sourah, Page 21:

قولو أمنا بالله و ما أنزل الینا و ما أنزل إلی ابراهیم و اسماعیل و اسحاق و یعقوب و الاسباط و ما اوتی موسی و عیسی لانفرق بین أحد منهم و نحن له مسلمون

Translation: Tell them(Christians and Jews) that we believe in what is sent to us and sent to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Joseph and his posterity, and we follow what is given to Moses and what is given to Jesus. We don't differentiate them and we completely submit to them.

That is Quran. I am not only Mohammad follower, I'm Moses, Jesus and all previous prophets follower according to Quran, and I'm proud of it.

You said you love Jesus. Let's go and take a look at bible.

"She said to the servant, "Who is that man walking in the field to meet us?" And the servant said, "He is my master." Then she took her veil and covered herself.". (Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Veils)

Why don't Christian women cover themselves? If they love him, they must follow him. There is a lot of these in bible. It's a good idea to take a look at your book. Muslim women cover themselves because they LOVE Mohammad truly. We show our love by ACTIONS not in words.

I don't expect my answers to affect on you because Quran says:

و لن ترضی عنک الیهود و لاالنصاری حتی تتبع ملتهم

Translation: Whatever reason you bring for them, they won't follow you till you follow them(Of course we have some good verses in Quran for good truth seeker Christians too)

Hello to you there in Iran

I am writing from Amman, Jordan, Greetings

I must say please do not be misled to believe that the US or Western Entertainment industry represent Christianity. As you can see, they are at enmity with Christ. In the United States they teach God is not real, and are promoting homosexuality in schools to children. The Christians there are the only ones holding up the banner of righteousness in these Western Countries so have mercy on them. I know Muslims and Christians agree these things are not of God.

This is righteous of you to know that God is above parents authority and the like. God bless you sincerely. You use the word "beloved" but what does this word mean? My point is it does mean to you the same as for me? Do you see?

You say you follow of all Gods prophet but what book do you forsake all other books and Prophets for, the Quran - and if I might call it MHMD's book.

Correct me if I am wrong the Quran was revealed to MHMD over a period of 23 years by the angel Gabriel. Retained by memorization for almost 50 years by MHMD, companions, and followers, the current written copy was collected almost 20 years after MHMD's death. It was revealed and written in Arabic, has to be memorized/ recited in Arabic. Inspired in words/ meaning not interpretation. God recited- MHMD memorized- recited it back to scribe. Is this true?

So you say you love all the prophets but you pay attention only to the one Prophet's writings and this book?? 

It seems you follow Mohamad, more than God. You respond, but "O Mohamad is the way to God, he is the final Prophet"

I respond: "You believe he is the final Prophet?- yet he does not align with the truth of the previous prophets, says Islam is with their teachings but in the same breath says their teachings are corrupted? How is this logic?

Regarding Christian women veiling:

What is God more pleased with a woman who puts a hijab on her head. Yet she sits in fancy houses, and she wears the finest clothes and when the children in her city are thirsty, she gives them no water!

Or the woman who has sneakers on her feet, hair pulled back tight in a pony tail and she is on the streets picking up the trash, holding the children, talking to young girls, prostitutes, lost people who have no religion or God, telling them God loves them and inviting them to her home and to her church. She has sweat on her brow because she has walked far, she has fire in her heart because God has called her to this life of serving him.

Do not look at the outside my brother, for we will all be deceived. The hijab is a religious garment, but the living God is not as concerned with our garments as he is with our hearts.

Christian women are not obliged to show their love for God by wearing a head scarf, but rather to show their love for God, by feeling his heart beat for the lost, for the children who have no one to care for them, and for the people that need to hear about him. That is real action, not wearing a garment, who do you make God out to be?

We do not serve God for ourselves, for our own Glory, to say look at me, I serve God, look I am wearing religious clothes, I am righteous. We serve God for Him, for his glory, that people might look at him, and say he is beautiful.

God bless you there in Iran, I truly pray for you. I know you have different battle than me and I pray God brings you into his Kingdom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Journal1 said:

When you are in the face of the real God, in the presence of unspeakable light, holiness, pureness, truth, power...

He does not need to say "Worship me".

You fall on your face and just weep because it is overwhelming. In my understanding, God does not need to command people to worship him. Jesus is not a dictator, and neither is God.

this is what we all feel for God.. but you are not differentiating between Jesus and God. 

it is a major sin in our religion to call Jesus God.. or any other man.

 

And btw islam doesnt emphasis on men only.. shia islam talks alot about Bibi Fatima a.s and Mary a.s.

remember you are given a very distorted image of islam in the west. (deliberate)

didnt Jacob marry four wives?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

Hi Journal1, welcome to the site. I've been on this site a while and I think you'll find some very knowledgeable people here. It's a really good place to ask.

The reason for the "more than you" is reciprocal. Both sides sit back and believe the other is wrong in perspective, thus we are on opposing sides. Not true.

The reason I am here is because the Lord showed me that Muslims and Christians can actually worship together, feel the presence of the Lord together, and love...on the same level. I'm not the only one who has had opportunity to discouver this, add Robert Schuller,  and Billy Graham to those who have said Muslims will go to Heaven, and nothing about turning to a life in Christ...as Muslims. 

I'm going by what I've learned, not by what I was originally taught. I was brought up Baptist.

God bless you,

Do you not believe in the Bible?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Really?

Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' (Matthew 4:10)

There are numerous passages in the Old Testament where God commands His people to worship Him, to love Him, to worship no other than Him, and that He is a jealous God. Meanwhile in the Book of Revelation, Jesus comes back and kills all his enemies, presumably in order to bring in the state in which 'every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess to God' (Romans 14:11). So it seems highly questionable to say that God doesn't need to command people to worship Him.

Honestly, I am aware of the commandments in the Old testaments, I was going to delve into that but I wanted to keep my post not too long.

Jesus here is quoting the Old testament commandments. And he teaches us here how to battle in the heavenlies and to use the Word of God when the enemy lies to us. The Word is like a sword. 

For instance: The devil says, "God does not forgive you, you will go to hell."

Gods Word: "It is written, "For there is now no more condemnation for those who at in Christ Jesus."

Jesus gave us this example of Spiritual warfare that we are able to defeat Satan's lies with the truth of his word. The bible says, "For the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any double-edged sword, able to divide joints and marrow, soul and spirit." (Hebrews 4:12) There's much more to say on this but, it's beside the point.

So I want to bring up this point that I prevented myself from bringing up earlier for the purpose of saving space:

Nowhere in the New Testament do you hear Jesus commanding Worship, people just worshipped him, and he accepted it. Must I write all the stories or do you know them? You clearly know Revelations where it is written that "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father."

I want to make a strong point, that even here, it is not implied this forced Worship. This could be that when God is revealed, everyone is just blown away by his glory and willingly just gives him the praise He is worthy of. To be honest, I believe forced worship is not worship at all. It is service but not worship. 

Worship is sacrificial. Worship is sacrifice. Look at the story of Abraham and the Torah, people would bring goats and lambs to sacrifice in worship to God. 

That is why God gives everyone a choice. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Journal1 said:

Good analogy, it makes me smile.

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I assume love is in the heart of the holder, and no one knows its depth.

I can only answer this way, I would rather be married to the first husband lol He seems like he loves her more.

Ugh. No. Been there. 

I guess that's a difference between you and me. I'd rather be in a relationship with someone who doesn't put me up on a pedestal and worship me. So yeah, I guess it is an even better analogy than I thought it was. 

Certainly you would agree, though, that a man who loves his wife as a person does not love her less than the man who loves his wife as a god?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

If you study the teaching of Jesus in another book other than your own, you will come across a difference in the Character between the two persons. 

Actually the more I read about Jesus teaching in bible the more I found them also in Islam and Ahlulbait teachings.

Quote

The crazier part is, God still loves them and wants them to know his love. 

God loves the repenter/returner to Him. If he keep sinning and does not repent, his hearth becomes dark and dead by time and there would be no light left in him.

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17)

I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. (Luke 5:32)

Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. (Luke 13:3, 5)

---

Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves” Surah Al-Baqarah, Verse 222

Say: “O Ibadee (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Quran (Surah Az-Zumar, Verse 53)

Quote

Honestly, many people feel this way, like the worst sinner and grateful for Christ and it serves as a testimony that it is never too late, you could never do something so bad that God will not love you and accept you if you call on his name. We believe in forgiveness in Christ and eternal life. So I never look down on anyone. I invite prostitutes, gang members, business colleagues to my home and to my church if they want. Jesus is for everyone not just people born into religion.

I agree with you, It is never too late.

Edited by Dhulfikar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Journal1 said:

 

"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me."

 

1

Salam,

I do not mean to offend you, but this is one which I've been boiling to ask a Christian since you happen to mention it in this thread.

We believe Jesus A.S. to be a prophet, which God sent down to guide people. Right?

But, you, Christians believe that he is the son of god. If he is to be the son of god, why does he do human things such as eat, drink and sleep? Surely the son of a god wouldn't need to do any of those human things? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

In my understanding, God does not need to command people to worship him. Jesus is not a dictator, and neither is God.

Worship is reflecting over the affair (pondering over the greatness of God and His creation which leads to His recognition, a prerequisite for true worship) of God. With the humility and awe of God you thank Him and Pray to Him in praise and asking forgiveness.

Edited by Dhulfikar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dhulfikar said:

Actually the more I read about Jesus teaching in bible the more I found them also in Islam and Ahlulbait teachings.

......

Excepting Walking-on-unfrozen-Water, nothing about what Jesus-a.s. said or did in the Gospels that is not also found in the Old Testament.

As for Surah 5:110 as our base ayat of reference,  the OP/Journal1 is the same as the 21:21ers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...