Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
just a muslim

question again

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, kirtc said:

I would advise you to stop wasting your time with this guy.. he is not here to question. his mind is closed. 

Thanks this answers is not specially for him I explain these questions either he accepts it or not I just tried to provide answers for which peoples that they want answers in easier way.

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا سَوَاءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ أَأَنذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنذِرْهُمْ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ﴿٦ خَتَمَ اللَّـهُ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ وَعَلَىٰ سَمْعِهِمْ ۖ وَعَلَىٰ أَبْصَارِهِمْ غِشَاوَةٌ ۖوَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ ﴿٧

Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe. (6) Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them. (7)

Al-Baqara 7

وَقَالُوا قُلُوبُنَا غُلْفٌ ۚ بَل لَّعَنَهُمُ اللَّـهُ بِكُفْرِهِمْ فَقَلِيلًا مَّا يُؤْمِنُونَ ﴿٨٨

Al-Baqara 88

 And they say: Our hearts are covered. Nay, Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief; so little it is that they believe. (88)

 

 

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam Brother you dont accept shia sources & every Sunni sources that narrated you say it is not authentic   so first list authentic sources from your view.

 

1 hour ago, kirtc said:

salam brother,

I would advise you to stop wasting your time with this guy.. he is not here to question. his mind is closed. 

i have said many times that i accept authentic ahadith. and here, ahadith includes any report which has a sanad, whether it is about the prophet or a historical report.

here is a slightly old announcement i made about this methodology of mine:

 

Edited by just a muslim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

i have said many times that i accept authentic ahadith

ok here we go. 

https://sunnah.com/muslim/44/55

"but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family.."

so your own hadith from sahih muslim says this... 

what more needs to be said? 

@Ashvazdanghe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, kirtc said:

ok here we go. 

https://sunnah.com/muslim/44/55

"but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family.."

so your own hadith from sahih muslim says this... 

what more needs to be said? 

@Ashvazdanghe

lol. you made a new topic for it. seems you are new to the sunni shia discussions. but okay. since you brought it up, instead of asking you one question at a time to lead you to what i mean, i will simply explain in a single message. you think this hadith is evidence that we need quran and ahlulbayt. i ask you to read it again. the hadith says to hold fast to the book of Allah. not to the ahlul bayt. holding fast is only to the book of Allah. as for the ahlul bayt, they are to be respected and Allah should be feared with regards to the ahlul bayt. one might ask why the second portion then? i say, this was to warn the ummah not to mistreat the ahlul bayt, but it happened anyway. 72 people of the household were killed by yazid's army, including imam hussain a.s. 

point being, we are not to hold fast to the quran and ahlul bayt. only to the quran. the quran itself mentions that part. wa'tasimoo biHablillahi jamee'a walaa tafarraqoo. hold fast to the rope of Allah and do not be divided. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

yes. ignore the point, pick up the small things.

i do not intend to give dawah to "sunnism" here. you did that. i am defending my position. 

you ignored evvvveeeeerything i said.. you simply said none of it is true lol.. practice our own deen before "fixing" ours.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, just a muslim said:

what exactly did i ignore?

I just realised you edited your comment when you said "none of this is true". do yourself a favor and leave with your buddy @Wisdom007

you will find 10 sunni to shia converts for every 1 shia to sunni if there are any. 

your method of asking "how do you know this is true" 50 times in a row isnt really working out for you.. go and be with your friends.. post a pic of king salman on fb, write him a poem.. we rafidis are not worth your time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, just a muslim said:

1. where did you get that from?

2. he simply didnt understand the decision. and i explain why below.

do you know the terms of the treaty of hudaibiya? the terms said that if someone from makkah accepted islam, and migrated to madinah, the prophet pbuh would send that person back and not allow him abode in makkah. but if a person in madinah were to accept the religion of polytheists, and migrated to makkah, the prophet pbuh would not stop him and makkans would accept him. does that seem logical to you? on face value, it seems absurd. only now do we see the wisdom of it after everything panned out as it did. but it would have been nearly impossible to see the wisdom behind it at that time. hence the multiple questions from both, the prophet and abu bakr. 

1. Battle of Uhud? Battle of Hunayn?

2. So one is permitted to cast doubt on the Prophet (saw) if one doesn't understand his decision? Doesn't the attitude reek of "he may be Allah's Prophet but I know better..."

Bear in mind, he wasn't advising the Prophet.

23 hours ago, just a muslim said:

i also asked you why the prophet pbuh didnt come out from jama'ah on the 4th night? what reason did he give. 

also, he never expressly forbade it or use the word forbidden to the best of my knowledge.

the only hadith i am aware of about umar starting this is the one where a person says to umar prayer is better than sleep and umar says put it in the azaan. and the hadith is not authentic. even if you were to somehow justify it, EVEN IF, then the meaning could easily be taken as the person not knowing that the phrase is in the azaan and umar telling him it is supposed to be said in azaan, not told individually to everyone. again, this is only a bonus explanation, so to speak. the hadith isnt authentic in the first place. if you think there are other ahadith that make such claims, present them and we shall discuss.

The other brothers have provided references.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

1. Battle of Uhud? Battle of Hunayn?

where did you get that umar ran away from these battles?

11 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

2. So one is permitted to cast doubt on the Prophet (saw) if one doesn't understand his decision? Doesn't the attitude reek of "he may be Allah's Prophet but I know better..."

Bear in mind, he wasn't advising the Prophet.

no. 

when shias use rationality to dismiss something from religion, are they implying that okay, it may be from Allah, but i know better? 

he was asking the logic behind it. i already explained why the treaty would not have made sense. i am not saying what he did was right. he himself regretted it later. but all i am saying is there was no "hypocrisy" or kufr hidden behind the questions. 

11 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

The other brothers have provided references.

and i responded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

where did you get that umar ran away from these battles?

I thought it was well known. Out of the handful of sahaba that stayed with the Prophet, Caliph Umar wasn't one of them. Hence he ran. 

32 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

when shias use rationality to dismiss something from religion, are they implying that okay, it may be from Allah, but i know better? 

We don't dismiss anything in religion so the point is moot.

 

34 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

he was asking the logic behind it. i already explained why the treaty would not have made sense. i am not saying what he did was right. he himself regretted it later. but all i am saying is there was no "hypocrisy" or kufr hidden behind the questions. 

That is up for debate though, why insist on fighting when the Muslims went unarmed. Caliph Umar was supposed to be really smart so what happened?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, just a muslim said:

where did you get that umar ran away from these battles?

Umar, Abu Bakr and Uthman running from battles is a historical fact agreed by both Sunnis and Shi'as.

Narrated Abu Qatada: When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain...... The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy).

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Hadith 611

 

More hadiths here:

 

Edited by Hassan-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

We don't dismiss anything in religion so the point is moot.

riiight. who rejects ahadith if they dont make sense?

8 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

That is up for debate though, why insist on fighting when the Muslims went unarmed. Caliph Umar was supposed to be really smart so what happened?

if one were upon haqq, would they worried about not having weapons or would they rely upon Allah? 

fighting an army twice/thrice the size of one's own also doesnt make sense. 

8 hours ago, Hassan- said:

Umar, Abu Bakr and Uthman running from battles is a historical fact agreed by both Sunnis and Shi'as.

Narrated Abu Qatada: When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain...... The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy).

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Hadith 611

it does not say umar fled. but thanks for the reference.

also, the term "historical fact" is a sort of oxymoron or illogical. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

it does not say umar fled. but thanks for the reference.

Brother, the Bukhari hadith clearly says he fled. Abu Qatada says he started to flee with the Muslims and met Umar amongst the people. In other words Umar was with the Muslims that fled. This is just one of many hadiths by the way.

10 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

also, the term "historical fact" is a sort of oxymoron or illogical. 

It's agreed by both the Sunnis and the Shi'a.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

Brother, the Bukhari hadith clearly says he fled. Abu Qatada says he started to flee with the Muslims and met Umar amongst the people. In other words Umar was with the Muslims that fled. This is just one of many hadiths by the way.

It's agreed by both the Sunnis and the Shi'a.

no. it says umar was in/among the people. that could have been for any reason. he could have been positioned at the back lines and when the people were retreating, he would have become among them.

doesnt matter if the whole world agrees on something. doesnt make it true. the world once believed the earth to be flat. by definition of a fact, something has to be provable. history is not provable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

no. it says umar was in/among the people.

The man fled with the Muslims and met Umar amongst the people. Who are 'the people'? It is the fleeing Muslims obviously, and it uses the word 'fled' which is a past tense word, meaning he and the people have already left the battlefield before he met Umar, and after leaving the battlefield that is where he met Umar. Just read the hadith it isn't hard to understand. 

54 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

he could have been positioned at the back lines and when the people were retreating, he would have become among them.

That is a weak argument. You are now looking for any explanation to make yourself believe he didn't flee. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

The man fled with the Muslims and met Umar amongst the people. Who are 'the people'? It is the fleeing Muslims obviously, and it uses the word 'fled' which is a past tense word, meaning he and the people have already left the battlefield before he met Umar, and after leaving the battlefield that is where he met Umar. Just read the hadith it isn't hard to understand. 

That is a weak argument. You are now looking for any explanation to make yourself believe he didn't flee. 

okay. you may be right. apologies. i will look into it in detail inshaAllah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, just a muslim said:

riiight. who rejects ahadith if they dont make sense?

My dear brother - we established earlier that you accept Quran if it agrees with hadith whereas we accept hadith of it agrees with the Quran. Big difference.

4 hours ago, just a muslim said:

if one were upon haqq, would they worried about not having weapons or would they rely upon Allah?  

Since they were in haqq, why not accept what the Prophet (saw) gives?

Since we have established that Caliph Umar was not the smartest sahaba, is it possible that he didn't understand the Sermon of Ghadeer as well? What does mawla mean? Why do we have to follow Ali, etc. Is the Prophet (saw) even sane in his illness?

4 hours ago, just a muslim said:

fighting an army twice/thrice the size of one's own also doesnt make sense. 

Sure it does...if the Prophet (saw) tells you too. It would also make sense since the sahaba were all righteous and upright...or were they?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

My dear brother - we established earlier that you accept Quran if it agrees with hadith whereas we accept hadith of it agrees with the Quran. Big difference.

lol would you drop this already? how many times do i have to say that i dont base my belief in quran on hadith. 

i am not talking about hadith agreeing with quran. i am talking about hadith agreeing with you reason/rationality. do you, or shias in general, not reject ahadith if they go against your rationality?

5 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Since they were in haqq, why not accept what the Prophet (saw) gives?

accepting something and wanting to know the reason behind it can be done at the same time.

6 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

t would also make sense since the sahaba were all righteous and upright...or were they?

i never said this nor do i believe this.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/25/2017 at 1:39 AM, just a muslim said:

lol would you drop this already? how many times do i have to say that i dont base my belief in quran on hadith. 

i am not talking about hadith agreeing with quran. i am talking about hadith agreeing with you reason/rationality. do you, or shias in general, not reject ahadith if they go against your rationality?

accepting something and wanting to know the reason behind it can be done at the same time.

i never said this nor do i believe this.

 

I think we are done with this topic. We both agree that even if the Sunni and Shia hadith literature were wrong, our faith in the Quran will remain intact.

Is there much more left to discuss?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

https://article.tebyan.net/204804/خطبه-فدكیه-حضرت-فاطمه-زهرا-سلام-الله-علیها

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Farticle.tebyan.net%2F204804%2F%D8%AE%D8%B7%D8%A8%D9%87-%D9%81%D8%AF%D9%83%DB%8C%D9%87-%D8%AD%D8%B6%D8%B1%D8%AA-%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B7%D9%85%D9%87-%D8%B2%D9%87%D8%B1%D8%A7-%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87-%D8%B9%D9%84%DB%8C%D9%87%D8%A7&edit-text=

Fatemeh Zahra (SA) is a copy in accordance with the principle

in the name of God (:bismillah:)

Fatimah Alih al-Salam is one of the Beatithes whom Allah Almighty created the world through His existence, where the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Our Lord is the Creator of Allah Adam and Al-Hawa and La al-jenna and La al-Nar And La al-Sama'a and la al-'Arz (1), or Imam Ali (as), in the corner of Mu'awiyah, says: "فإنا سنائع ربنا و الناس بعد سناععنا لنا" (2) This phrase is very important in terms of meaning. Some people want to say that the meaning of this narrative is that our educated or educated people are our school, but there is no hindrance that this means that the ultimate goal of creation is the presence of Muhammad and Al-Muhammad (peace be upon him) or that hadeeth that God says: "Khalighak Lahijeli" (3) and in another tradition, he says: "Our Lord is the creation of Allah" (4). At all, man can not understand that God Almighty, who says: "What did you have created for yourself and created all the planets for you?"

What is clear from all these words is that their relationship with the Almighty God is very high, because Allah is Almighty, Supreme and Supreme, of course, the Prophet (peace be upon him) himself warns and says: "We are Almighty Allah »(5)

We must know that we have all that is from the Ahl al-Bayt (peace be upon him). Apart from them, anyone who sees what he sees when he sees them is not connected and can not be trusted.

Everything is in the school of the Prophet (peace be upon him), which the Prophet said: إني تارك فيكم التاقلين Book of Allah and Adriant "means to get everything from the householders and do not take any of these.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Do not come down from them, and not backwards, that if you go forward, you will be astray, and if you fall back, you will perish and say:" Late, I do not remember "," Fekeneh أعلم منكم "of all People are bigger ones.

Now, among the Ahl al-Bayt (PBUH), Hazrat Zahra, Salat Allah (PBUH & HP) have a particular focus; see, when the people of Beit are introduced al-Islam, they are at the top; "both Fatimah and the Abu, and Baalah, and the Banu" (6)

The Prophet (PBUH) has a special position among the Ahl al-Bayt (peace be upon him) as all Imams (as) are proud of their existence. Indeed, that sacred existence is for all the people of the world, the proof of their rightfulness, and for the wrongfulness of the usurpers and the oppressors, to the great ones. All of the people of the Beit (peace be upon him) are loyal to him, but Hazrat Fatemeh Zahra, peace be upon him, in this regard, his sovereignty is greater than all.

Fatemeh Zahra, Salat Allah Alih, Seyyedat Nasa'Alalimin, Bizea Al-Rasul and Qarina Valiolah, a woman who was appointed by the Holy Quran in Muhammad, and was one of the Ahl al-Bayt (peace be upon him), also a woman who was in the position of infallibility and purity as a father and spouse She was adorned with her children, and in that community, which even she did not allow the presence of, and heard from the Prophet (peace be upon him), and the answer was "إنك علی الخير", only the woman who was present was the Imam.

She had Imamate in the sense of science and guidance, and as a first lady of Islam in chastity, infallibility and dignity, his being is a pattern. Employment of out-of-home work and cooperation with non-married men The status of every woman is dignified and enthusiastic, let alone a lady whose dignity is "إن الله تعالي يغضب للضل فاطمه و إضضي لرضاها". Attendance at places that are specific to men is for a lady like him a tensell of the position of the Aql, the guardian, and his Aqdas.

http://beyragh.ir/فاطمه-زهرا-سلام-الله-علیها-نسخه-ای-مطاب/

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fa&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbeyragh.ir%2F%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B7%D9%85%D9%87-%D8%B2%D9%87%D8%B1%D8%A7-%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87-%D8%B9%D9%84%DB%8C%D9%87%D8%A7-%D9%86%D8%B3%D8%AE%D9%87-%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%A7%D8%A8%2F

http://www.ziaossalehin.ir/fa/content/4863

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fa&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ziaossalehin.ir%2Ffa%2Fcontent%2F4863

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 23/12/2017 at 4:48 PM, kirtc said:

I just realised you edited your comment when you said "none of this is true". do yourself a favor and leave with your buddy @Wisdom007

you will find 10 sunni to shia converts for every 1 shia to sunni if there are any. 

your method of asking "how do you know this is true" 50 times in a row isnt really working out for you.. go and be with your friends.. post a pic of king salman on fb, write him a poem.. we rafidis are not worth your time

Oh you’re DEFINITELY not worth the time.......another victim to my emojis.....aah the emotions.

lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...