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In the Name of God بسم الله

Kurdistan- the new Israeli project

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abuhaydar

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Salam

Around 3 months ago, My uncle and I were watching the news and he told me. "Just you wait and see, when Isis is on its last breath, they will bring in the kurds." This was before any talk of a referendum. It doesn't take much to see this plan if you followed news. Israel has long been suspected of buying kurdish oil and dealing with the kurds. 

Now that ISIS is almost non-existent in Iraq, all of a sudden the Kurds want Independence? Does it really take a genius to see through this plan?

@Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī do you really need more proof than this? 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/02/middleeast/iraqi-kurdistan-israel-support/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/world/middleeast/kurds-independence-israel.html

Edited by kirtc
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It's actually in the guardian too. Word for word: "Barazani's aim and Israel's covert aim were to seize Kirkuk's oilfields to serve the israeli interest. In the Kurdistan region, they raise the flag of Israel and this means if Kurds gain independence in Iraq, we will share a border with Israel,' Velayati said according to the IRGC-affiliated Tasnim news." 

I googled IRGC... Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, a branch of iranian army. So it may be bias. But there is no denying, Israeli flags have been raised in kurdistan. Feyli's strongly opposed it. Which is funny because, prior to this movement, feyli's weren't even considered a part of northern iraq kurdistan. Barazani just needed the numbers :rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, kirtc said:

 

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@Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī do you really need more proof than this? 

The CNN article you cite doesn't support any of the conspiracies that you are spouting. It literally says the most non-controversial thing ever: 

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Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu released a statement ahead of the referendum saying Israel "supports the legitimate efforts of the Kurdish people to attain a state of its own."

 

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Around 3 months ago, My uncle and I were watching the news and he told me. "Just you wait and see, when Isis is on its last breath, they will bring in the kurds." This was before any talk of a referendum. It doesn't take much to see this plan if you followed news. Israel has long been suspected of buying kurdish oil and dealing with the kurds. 

1.You are factually incorrect, the talk of the referendum has been going on for atleast a year and a half. The entire basis for not calling it earlier was because there was a war with ISIS and it wouldn't work holding it at the same time as fighting ISIS. Here is proof that the referendum talk occurred much earlier: 

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https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201603231036855644-iraq-kurdistan-independence-referendum/ Iraq Kurdistan's President Masoud Barzani said that the the Iraqi Kurds try to hold referendum on the region's independence this year before October.

2.Israel does buy some oil from Kurdistan but so what? Iraq lets the USA purchase its oil. Why is that permissible but not israel purchasing Kurdish oil? Plus you completely negate the basic fact that many foreign companies purchase Kurdish oil, rosnet, exxonmobil, gulf keystone etc... The total amount of oil sales the KRG generates is this: 

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Annual oil and gas earnings of around $13.5 billion would amount to $2600 per person. https://www.oxfordenergy.org/wpcms/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Kurdish-Oil-and-Regional-Politics-WPM-63.pdf

The single time payment recorded to Israel was this:

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http://www.jpost.com/Business-and-Innovation/Israel-importing-77-percent-of-its-oil-from-Iraqi-Kurdistan-report-says-413056 During that period, more than a third of all northern Iraqi exports, shipped through Turkey’s Ceyhan port, went to Israel, with transactions amounting to almost $1b.

Now go figure...

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Now that ISIS is almost non-existent in Iraq, all of a sudden the Kurds want Independence? Does it really take a genius to see through this plan?

Kurds have always wanted independence, to state otherwise is not factually supported. Kurdish nationalism goes back atleast 100 years: 

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http://etheses.lse.ac.uk/645/1/Zeynep_Maps_into_Nations.pdf In order to explain and illustrate the arguments above, this chapter firstly looks at Kurdish politics at end of WWI and the emergence of Kurdish nationalism in line with the idea of a national Kurdish homeland.

 

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do you really need more proof than this? 

You've not proven anything, you've given your own hypothesis and speculative beliefs. 

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4 hours ago, yusur317 said:

It's actually in the guardian too. Word for word: "Barazani's aim and Israel's covert aim were to seize Kirkuk's oilfields to serve the israeli interest. In the Kurdistan region, they raise the flag of Israel and this means if Kurds gain independence in Iraq, we will share a border with Israel,' Velayati said according to the IRGC-affiliated Tasnim news." 

I googled IRGC... Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, a branch of iranian army. So it may be bias. But there is no denying, Israeli flags have been raised in kurdistan. Feyli's strongly opposed it. Which is funny because, prior to this movement, feyli's weren't even considered a part of northern iraq kurdistan. Barazani just needed the numbers :rolleyes:

Oh god... Iraq didn't even exist prior to 1923, so concepts like "northern iraq" and "iraq" itself didn't exist at one point. None the less it may of not crossed your mind but Khanaqin is a Feyli city in the "northern iraq" and is part of the KRG. Therefore you are incorrect.

Secondly, many Feylis have been involved in the kurdish national movement and many were founding fathers of the KDP and PUK: 

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Among Faylee Kurds who assumed very high positions within the Kurdish movement were Zakia Ismail Haqqi, the first women judge in Iraq, who became the President of the Kurdistan Women Association, Adel Murad who became President of the Kurdistan Student Union, Yadollah Karim who had a leading post of Kurdistan Youth Association and Habib Muhammad Karim, who became acting secretary-general of the KDP, in the middle of nineteen seventies (15). It must sadly be added that the first woman in Iraq to be executed for political reasons was a Faylee Kurd, Leila Qasim, from Khanaqin; she was hanged by the Baath regime in May 1974 along with 4 more young Kurds (16). http://www.faylee.org/english/studies/doc3.php

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5 minutes ago, kirtc said:

 when an athiest asks me to prove God exists I have the same problem... 

This isn't a question of metaphysics or religious beliefs. You are making several claims related to the physical world, namely political events and alignments.

You  also do realise to right now half the KRG has disintegrated? Apparently Israel supports the KRG so much it forgot to send it weapons and supply it with an airforce... Infact the Iraqi army appear to be heading for Erbil, which is illegal... 

Edited by Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī
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On 10/17/2017 at 11:27 AM, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

This isn't a question of metaphysics or religious beliefs. You are making several claims related to the physical world, namely political events and alignments. 

Im sorry I cant provide you with video of the mossad whispering in barzani's ear. Or maybe copies of signed documents of Barzani to satan to show on CNN

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(Salam)

I wouldn't say it is exactly a "new" project since the idea of Kurdistan is around for last decades (it's been actually implemented as the Mahabad republic but it failed to last).

I think kurds will stick around with whoever can help them to achieve their dream and it is to get rid of arab/Iraqi government.

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8 minutes ago, kirtc said:
4 minutes ago, kirtc said:

C2dJuZ_XEAAtT_x.jpg

that is the lebanese forces leader (enemy of hizbullah) walking with mossad along with barzani in kurdistan.. 

@Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

I notice this alot Lebanese people are typicall extremely anti-Kurdish and you are so full of rhetoric. I'm fairly certain you cannot see past your own rhetoric.

See I would take you seriously if you knew what the Kurdish president looked like. No one in that photo is Massoud Barzani mate....

Not to mention the photo has no source. 

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3 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Not to mention the photo has no source. 

That photo (without the text attached at the top) was posted on an Arabic discussion board on September 15, 2012 with a caption that said in Arabic: سمير جعجع مع ضابط استخبارات اسرائيلية 

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4 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Oh god... Iraq didn't even exist prior to 1923, so concepts like "northern iraq" and "iraq" itself didn't exist at one point. None the less it may of not crossed your mind but Khanaqin is a Feyli city in the "northern iraq" and is part of the KRG. Therefore you are incorrect.

Secondly, many Feylis have been involved in the kurdish national movement and many were founding fathers of the KDP and PUK: 

.

Edited by yusur317
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12 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

That photo (without the text attached at the top) was posted on an Arabic discussion board on September 15, 2012 with a caption that said in Arabic: سمير جعجع مع ضابط استخبارات اسرائيلية 

On an Arabic news site it says it is Masoud Barzani:

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الصورة التي التقطت هذه المرة في كردستان أظهرت جعجع مع ضابط من الموساد الإسرائيلي معروف في الأوساط العراقية، و إلى جانبهما مسعود البرزاني رئيس إقليم كردستان، يتنزهون في أحد جبال كردستان، كأي مجموعة من الأصدقاء و الحلفاء.

http://www.saidaonline.com/news0.php?go=fullnews&newsid=49582

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The fact that Israel would be interested a Muslim country breaking up or erupting in civil war comes as no surprise.

What is surprising is how we as Muslims never fail to fall for their evil plans.

Fool me once....

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3 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Thank you but none of the people in the photo are Masoud Barzani.  This is massoud Barzani: 309586Image1.jpg

Honestly information from news stations from the middle-east have to be double-checked. 

the guy on the left looks like him.. and there are other photos of them together 

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4 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

The fact that Israel would be interested a Muslim country breaking up or erupting in civil war comes as no surprise.

What is surprising is how we as Muslims never fail to fall for their evil plans.

Fool me once....

As our neighbours for nearly all our history, Jews know arabs pretty good imo. And politically/strategically speaking, no one can reach the level of Israeli/Zionists politicians.

Good thing is that sooner rather than later Allah swt will make their hypocrisy apparent.

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1 hour ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

It's showing more racism from you, now we "all look the same". He literally looks nothing like him. Can you provide these other photos with their respective sources?

"lebanese hate kurds... you all look the same" these are heavy unwarranted accusations.. I have never expressed any sentiment on this site or anywhere any feelings towards kurds. Nor have I heard lebanese talk about kurds until recently because of the news..

the guy on the left looks like him because he has the same uniform and hat. google samir gaegar and barazani in arabic and there are plenty of photos.

dont call me racist because you dont like what im saying. they are dealing with israelis.. they admit and israel admits it. only you deny it.

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On 10/18/2017 at 10:31 AM, kirtc said:

"lebanese hate kurds... you all look the same" these are heavy unwarranted accusations.. I have never expressed any sentiment on this site or anywhere any feelings towards kurds. Nor have I heard lebanese talk about kurds until recently because of the news..

the guy on the left looks like him because he has the same uniform and hat. google samir gaegar and barazani in arabic and there are plenty of photos.

dont call me racist because you dont like what im saying. they are dealing with israelis.. they admit and israel admits it. only you deny it.

You continiously shift the burden of proof on me when you are making the claims. It isn't even on google and you once again making things up. Can you actually provide a clearer photo or another photo? 

By the way it isn't "barazani" it's 'Bar-zani', atleast learn to pronounce the name properly.

2. I have never denied the KDP has had dealings with Israel, but the relationship you are trying to claim simply hasn't been proven. If I meet with donal trump, does that now make me a neocon? Does it now make me an american puppet? NO, you are employing  fallacious reasoning that has no basis.

3. KDP doesn't equate all the Kurds, infact the majority of Kurds do not support the KDP, the majority support the PKK. 

4. Actually go on twitter, notice plenty of Lebanese are anti-kurdish and simply hate Kurds for no reason. Like with respect, stay in your own lane; you don't know anything about the Kurds or Kurdistan.

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On 10/20/2017 at 9:42 AM, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

4. Actually go on twitter, notice plenty of Lebanese are anti-kurdish and simply hate Kurds for no reason. Like with respect, stay in your own lane; you don't know anything about the Kurds or Kurdistan.

Pkk is a turkish militia founded by Abdullah ocalan. Ypg is a Syrian kurd militia related to pkk. Same ideology. also follows Abdullah Ocalan's philosophy. Their political party is ypd.
Both the Syrian and turkish kurds don't get along with the conservative capitalist kdp/pdk which is barzanis party. Syrians and Turks are progressive socialists.. used to be marxist

Iraq has 2 big parties/militias...Kdp/pdk and puk. Puk is friendly with the Turks and Syrians, iran and baghdad... founded by talabani
Iran also has 2 parties, one aligned with barzani kdp/pdk. Iran bombed their office in Kurdistan like 6 months ago...
They have pjak which is aligned with pkk. Kdp iran was inactive for a while unil recently took up arms again against the gov near the time saudi opened a consulate in erbil
sub7an Allah

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2 hours ago, kirtc said:

Pkk is a turkish militia founded by Abdullah ocalan. Ypg is a Syrian kurd militia related to pkk. Same ideology. also follows Abdullah Ocalan's philosophy. Their political party is ypd.
Both the Syrian and turkish kurds don't get along with the conservative capitalist kdp/pdk which is barzanis party. Syrians and Turks are progressive socialists.. used to be marxist

Iraq has 2 big parties/militias...Kdp/pdk and puk. Puk is friendly with the Turks and Syrians, iran and baghdad... founded by talabani
Iran also has 2 parties, one aligned with barzani kdp/pdk. Iran bombed their office in Kurdistan like 6 months ago...
They have pjak which is aligned with pkk. Kdp iran was inactive for a while unil recently took up arms again against the gov near the time saudi opened a consulate in erbil
sub7an Allah

PKK is a Kurdish militia, not Turkish.

Tradtionally you would be correct, PUK and KDP are the biggest parties; however this has changed. Gorran is now the second biggest party in the KRG parliament, winning more seats than the PUK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan_parliamentary_election,_2013

PUK isn't friendly with turkey, PUK is seen as friendly with Iran. It's the KDP who are friendly with Turkey.

The main founding father of the PUK was Jalal Talabani but there were also other people like: 

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The patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) was established in 1976; among its founding members were Jalal Talabani along with two Fayli Kurds, Adel Murad and Abd al-Razzaq Aziz Mirza (usually known as Razzaq Fayli) and others. The KDP started a new organization, which was partly a revival of the old KDP, called the Provisional Leadership with a Fayli Kurd in charge of its foreign relations office in London. 

After the 1991 popular uprising in Kurdistan Iraq Fayli Kurds began to come to the liberated areas in increasing though limited numbers and within the ranks of most Kurdish and Iraqi opposition parties. Some even worked within the new Kurdish administration in the liberated areas in various capacities. Among them can be mentioned Habib Muhammad Karim, Yadollah Karim, Jalil Fayli, Adel Murad, Razzaq Fayli and others [18]http://faylee.org/articles/doc111.htm

I think you are talking about KDPI, KDPI isn't related to the KDP, though it is understandable people make this mistake because of similar names. However KDP-S in Syria is related to the KDP in Iraq. In Iran there is also the PAK and PJAK.

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On 10/17/2017 at 7:13 AM, Sindbad05 said:

Kurds have ashamed Muslim brotherhood. 

Not all Kurds, Brother. Back in the '40s and 50's Mustafa Barzani was getting help from Russians, Soviet Union and Communists. The Iraqi and Iranian animosity with Masoud Barzani and his followers stems back to the time before the Iranian Revolution, however Iran did help the Kurds when the Ba'ath Party was in power. Mustafa Barzani and his followers moved to Iran after the 1975 Algiers Agreement, while other Kurds moved to Syria. It's complicated.  

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1 hour ago, Hameedeh said:

Not all Kurds, Brother. Back in the '40s and 50's Mustafa Barzani was getting help from Russians, Soviet Union and Communists. The Iraqi and Iranian animosity with Masoud Barzani and his followers stems back to the time before the Iranian Revolution, however Iran did help the Kurds when the Ba'ath Party was in power. Mustafa Barzani and his followers moved to Iran after the 1975 Algiers Agreement, while other Kurds moved to Syria. It's complicated.  

I am also saying those who support Israel war against brothers. Masoud Barzani is politician and like all Mechiavelli politicians will run where he finds riches.  He along with Saddam even didn't care about certain Kurds factions and killed them as well in coalition. I seek refuge of Allah for Kurds.

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3 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

AlSura is an iranian funded propaganda website that spreads anti-kurdish rubbish. If you were smart and geniune you would realise this video is old and not only is it old he is referring to the Arab tribes that joined ISIS... 

I'm still confused to why a non-iraqi is so invested in the politics of kurds in Iraq.

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On 10/21/2017 at 1:45 PM, Dhulfikar said:

In Germany:

e054155ed67006bbb1f93c6a1d8f32b4b911481b

To me it appears you are trying to convince yourself. 

Here is the source of that photo: http://honestlyconcerned.info/links/hamburg-solidaritaetskundgebung-der-norddeutschen-kurden-mit-der-autonomen-region-kurdistan-in-nordirak-ali-ertan-toprak/

It's a KDP rally...

 

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