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Natsu

WHY DID THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS REJECT ALI

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On 2017-10-16 at 1:51 PM, Natsu said:

SALAM 

i want to know why did the majority of the muslims didnt accept ali as their leader when prophet mohammaed (p.b.u.h)said “who follows me,follows ali”

''Muslims'' Have you read the history and read about whom where the chalipas in the time of Imam Ali? Have you heard how they practise Islam, and how they killed Imam Hussein (as)? You know that Yazid killed Imam Hussein (as) in the name of Islam, and he was chalip of Islam? That is kind of not suitable in my opinion. That isn't Islam, that is pure rage!

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On 10/16/2017 at 6:51 AM, Natsu said:

SALAM 

i want to know why did the majority of the muslims didnt accept ali as their leader when prophet mohammaed (p.b.u.h)said “who follows me,follows ali”

Fear and greed.

Some feared the party that usurped power. Others were bought by the usurpers.

 

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3 hours ago, Hamodiii said:

''Muslims'' Have you read the history and read about whom where the chalipas in the time of Imam Ali? Have you heard how they practise Islam, and how they killed Imam Hussein (as)? You know that Yazid killed Imam Hussein (as) in the name of Islam, and he was chalip of Islam? That is kind of not suitable in my opinion. That isn't Islam, that is pure rage!

The biggest fraud of History has been to bring name of Yazeed and curse him and finish the matter.  Imam Hussain  was not against Yazeed doing bad things , having alcohol  etc . Imam Hussain was against the system that Muawiyah started. 

You need to look at 20 years rule of Muawiyah and the changes he brought . Yazeed was absolutely nothing in front of what Muawiyah did.  When people wrote letters against Muawiyah to Imam Hussain , and Muawiyah through his spies heard that. He wrote to Hussain that do not create any fitna and stick with treaty your brother made. Imam replied that what can be greater fitna than a person like you ruling. Imam continued,  that the things you are doing makes jihad against you obligatory , and I do not know how I will answer in front of Allah that I am not fighting you. Only the last clause of the treaty is left , lets see what you do ( he was reffering to the fact that Muawiyah should not make anyone heir ) , but Muawiyah broke even that, and forcefully made his son the king , through sword and bribe. 

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Maybe a desire for some to manipulate Islam with Arab tribalism and customs? Imam Ali (as) certainly was concerned with this when Uthman was elected as Caliph. 

Ali (as) said, "I follow the Book of Allah, the traditions of the Holy Prophet and my own beliefs."

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On 10/16/2017 at 4:51 PM, Natsu said:

SALAM 

i want to know why did the majority of the muslims didnt accept ali as their leader when prophet mohammaed (p.b.u.h)said “who follows me,follows ali”

Recite Sura-e-Muhammad (Chapter 47 of Quran).

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وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ أَبَىٰ وَاسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ {34}

[Pickthal 2:34] And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.

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16 hours ago, SIAR14 said:

One has to love Ahlul Bayth (A.S) by following them, doing lip service is of no use. 

Define follow. I am certain that modern-day Shias do not follow Ahlul-Bayt (as). We primarily follow our forefathers. Ahlul Bayt spent all their time doing dhikr of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. We spend most of our times doing dhikr of Ahlul Bayt (as). So in reality we Shias are ones who are doing "lip service" rather than truly following Ahlul Bayt.

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13 hours ago, 786:) said:

Define follow.

Brother following means,


1. Purifying yourself internally and externally.

2.True shia  Ahlul Bayth (A.S) should know what is halal and haram. 

3. He/she should perform his/her wajibat. knowledge of Ahlul Bayth (A.S), understanding of Quran and 51 rakat Prayers should be his/her priority.

4. Observe the characteristic of hypocrites, enemies of Ahlul Bayth (A.S) and honestly evaluate,are you playing role of enemies or followers. What Characteristics you have in you.

5. Shia should be man of wisdom,man of action. Shia has to like what Ahlul Bayth (A.S) likes, say what THEY (A.S) told us to say and do what THEY (A.S) told us to do.

6. He/she should be aware of his responsibility towards his parents, siblings, friends, neighbor and relatives

7. Know himself to know Allah. Know Imam e Zamana (A.S) to know his responsibilities being a Momin in this time period. 

These are the few things I can point out, what following means :-). May be there are more.

Edited by SIAR14

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15 hours ago, 786:) said:

Ahlul Bayt spent all their time doing dhikr of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. We spend most of our times doing dhikr of Ahlul Bayt (as). So in reality we Shias are ones who are doing "lip service" rather than truly following Ahlul Bayt.

:bismillah:

Perhaps you have missed these verses of Quran:

فَاذْكُرُونِي أَذْكُرْكُمْ وَاشْكُرُواْ لِي وَلاَ تَكْفُرُونِ

لَقَدْ أَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكُمْ كِتَابًا فِيهِ ذِكْرُكُمْ أَفَلَا تَعْقِلُونَ

وَمَا رَمَيْتَ إِذْ رَمَيْتَ وَلَـكِنَّ اللّهَ رَمَى

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُبَايِعُونَكَ إِنَّمَا يُبَايِعُونَ اللَّهَ يَدُ اللَّهِ فَوْقَ أَيْدِيهِمْ

And there are many many more verses. Dhikr of Ahlul Bayt is a problems for you! Allah has mentioned them in Quran. Without doing the dhikr of Ahlul Bayt (asws), what do you think, will Allah accepts the salah? 

صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنعَمتَ عَلَيهِمْ غَيرِ المَغضُوبِ عَلَيهِمْ وَلاَ الضَّالِّينَ

 

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2 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

:bismillah:

Perhaps you have missed these verses of Quran:

فَاذْكُرُونِي أَذْكُرْكُمْ وَاشْكُرُواْ لِي وَلاَ تَكْفُرُونِ

لَقَدْ أَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكُمْ كِتَابًا فِيهِ ذِكْرُكُمْ أَفَلَا تَعْقِلُونَ

وَمَا رَمَيْتَ إِذْ رَمَيْتَ وَلَـكِنَّ اللّهَ رَمَى

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُبَايِعُونَكَ إِنَّمَا يُبَايِعُونَ اللَّهَ يَدُ اللَّهِ فَوْقَ أَيْدِيهِمْ

And there are many many more verses. Dhikr of Ahlul Bayt is a problems for you! Allah has mentioned them in Quran. Without doing the dhikr of Ahlul Bayt (asws), what do you think, will Allah accepts the salah? 

صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنعَمتَ عَلَيهِمْ غَيرِ المَغضُوبِ عَلَيهِمْ وَلاَ الضَّالِّينَ

 

It is certainly of no issue for me. I hold Ahlul Bayt (as) at the utmost respect. However, I do find it problematic when we have turned the deen into human-centricity rather than god-centricity. You may not like what I have to say, but I speak without bias and with objectivity. Also, it appears to me that you jumped the gun and assumed I am a Salafi/Nasibi. I am certainly not, but I do think we as Shias get carried away in the polemics and drift away from the core tenant of Islam: Tawheed. This was the main message from day 1 of Rasoolallah's (saw) nabuwah, and it is certainly going to be the main message from Al-Mahdi's (as) return.

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24 minutes ago, 786:) said:

However, I do find it problematic when we have turned the deen into human-centricity rather than god-centricity.

Those humans are not elected representatives of humans. They are the choosen ones, Auliya Allah, Authorized representatives of Allah (s.w.t), the guided ones. Peace & blessings of Allah be upon them.

28 minutes ago, 786:) said:

I am certainly not, but I do think we as Shias get carried away in the polemics and drift away from the core tenant of Islam: Tawheed.

I know what is with you. I had some discussions with where you're coming from. 

You dont need to teach touheed to those who are the followers of Ahlul Bayt (asws).

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Just now, Salsabeel said:

Those humans are not elected representatives of humans. They are the choosen ones, Auliya Allah, Authorized representatives of Allah (s.w.t), the guided ones. Peace & blessings of Allah be upon them.

I know what is with you. I had some discussions with where you're coming from. 

You dont need to teach touheed to those who are the followers of Ahlul Bayt (asws).

Yeah you're absolutely right. We dont need to teach Tawheed to the followers of Ahlul Bayt (as). They have it down to the dot. You know like Rasoolallah (saw) and Imam Ali (as) created the world. LOL

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1 minute ago, 786:) said:

You know like Rasoolallah (saw) and Imam Ali (as) created the world. LOL

I am sorry, your reforms are punctured. You are in the sight & there is no secret.

Again first attemp by OP followed by the effort to sell the reforms.

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Just now, Salsabeel said:

I am sorry, your reforms are punctured. You are in the sight & there is no secret.

Again first attemp by OP followed by the effort to sell the reforms.

That is awesome news.

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I do find it cheap and petty of you of just dismissing me because I do label myself a reformist. If you were genuine, you would at least listen to what I have to say instead of just trying to belittle me because I do not hold on to the mainstream system like you do. But of course, there are more of you than there are of me so it is an uphill battle. So go ahead and ban me since that is what you "have in sight".

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وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ أَبَىٰ وَاسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ {34}

[Pickthal 2:34] And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.

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1 hour ago, 786:) said:

But of course, there are more of you than there are of me so it is an uphill battle

Thank you for accepting that there are some from you here on shiachat. We know them & we will continue to know all in future In-sha Allah. 

The love of Ahlul Bayt (asws) produces furqan within ourselves. Noorun ala Noor

Surah As-Saff, Verse 8:
يُرِيدُونَ لِيُطْفِئُوا نُورَ اللَّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَاللَّهُ مُتِمُّ نُورِهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ

They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths but Allah will perfect His light, though the unbelievers may be averse.
(English - Shakir)

Surah As-Saff, Verse 9:
هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَىٰ وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُونَ

He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion, that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.
(English - Shakir)

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On 07/02/2018 at 4:44 AM, Russel Ahmed said:

The biggest fraud of History has been to bring name of Yazeed and curse him and finish the matter.  Imam Hussain  was not against Yazeed doing bad things , having alcohol  etc . Imam Hussain was against the system that Muawiyah started. 

You need to look at 20 years rule of Muawiyah and the changes he brought . Yazeed was absolutely nothing in front of what Muawiyah did.  When people wrote letters against Muawiyah to Imam Hussain , and Muawiyah through his spies heard that. He wrote to Hussain that do not create any fitna and stick with treaty your brother made. Imam replied that what can be greater fitna than a person like you ruling. Imam continued,  that the things you are doing makes jihad against you obligatory , and I do not know how I will answer in front of Allah that I am not fighting you. Only the last clause of the treaty is left , lets see what you do ( he was reffering to the fact that Muawiyah should not make anyone heir ) , but Muawiyah broke even that, and forcefully made his son the king , through sword and bribe. 

:salam:

That's a whole new opinion here. 

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First of all, it must be noticed that no one elects the Prophets as well as their successors, except for God; because, successorship and caliphate of the Prophet is a divine position. That is why, the Prophet of Islam introduced Ali (A) as the master and leader of Muslims, on the day of Ghadir, saying that “of whomsoever I am a master, Ali is his master, and of whomsoever I am a guardian, Ali is his guardian.” [1]

There are reports according to which the people knew the reality, but again, they ignored Ali’s leadership due to some Ethno-political issues. For instance, when “Khulah Hanafi”, a Lady from among the Bani Hanifah tribe, saw Ali (A), she said: You are the one whom the Apostle of Allah chose at Ghadir Khum, as a leader and master of people. He said: Yes, I am that very person. The Lady continued: We were enraged because of you, and on account of our protest against the first Caliph, we were attacked... [2]

Based on the aforementioned points it can be concluded that the denial of Ali’s Caliphate was, to some extends, similar to the story of Aron and Mosses as the Prophet Mohammad (P) said that “Ali (A) is to me as Aaron was to Moses, except that there will be no Prophet after me.” [3] Whereas the nation of Mosses knew the position of Aron they rejected him following others. Same is the case with some of the followers of the last Prophet Muhammad (P).

Notes: 
 [1] See: Al-Khesal, vol. 2, p. 44. 
 [2] See: Ithbat al-Hudat, vol. 2, p. 42.
 [3] Al-Khesal, vol. 2, p. 44.

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38 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Thank you for accepting that there are some from you here on shiachat. We know them & we will continue to know all in future In-sha Allah. 

The love of Ahlul Bayt (asws) produces furqan within ourselves. Noorun ala Noor

Surah As-Saff, Verse 8:
يُرِيدُونَ لِيُطْفِئُوا نُورَ اللَّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَاللَّهُ مُتِمُّ نُورِهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ

They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths but Allah will perfect His light, though the unbelievers may be averse.
(English - Shakir)

Surah As-Saff, Verse 9:
هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَىٰ وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُونَ

He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion, that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.
(English - Shakir)

Yes, only you and those like you will get jannah Insha Allah. For the rest of us peasants, make dua.

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On 10/16/2017 at 4:51 PM, Natsu said:

SALAM 

i want to know why did the majority of the muslims didnt accept ali as their leader when prophet mohammaed (p.b.u.h)said “who follows me,follows ali”

The majority is always condemned in the verses of quran: like given below:

The Holy Quran has criticized the majority

In the following verses the Quran has condemned the view of the majority:

  1. And what reason have you that you should not eat of that on which Allah’s name has been mentioned, and He has already made plain to you what He has forbidden to you– excepting what you are compelled to; and most surely many would lead (people) astray by their low desires out of ignorance; surely your Lord– He best knows those who exceed the limits.

Surah Anaam (6): Verse 119

  1. And most of them do not follow (anything) but conjecture; surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth; surely Allah is cognizant of what they do.

Surah Yunus (10): Verse 36

  1. And even if We had sent down to them the angels and the dead had spoken to them and We had brought together all things before them, they would not believe unless Allah pleases, but most of them are ignorant.

Surah An’aam (6): Verse 111

  1. Or do they say: There is madness in him? Nay! He has brought them the truth, and most of them are averse from the truth.

Surah Momenoon (23): Verses 70-71

  1. Most surely there is a sign in that, but most of them will not believe.

Surah Shoara (26): Verse 8

  1. And We did not find in most of them any (faithfulness to) covenant, and We found most of them to be certainly transgressors.

Surah Aaraaf (7): Verse 102

  1. Allah has not ordained (the classification of camels into) a bahirah or a saibah or a wasilah or a hami but those who disbelieve fabricate a lie against Allah, and most of them do not understand.

Surah Maaedah (5): Verse103

  1. A Book of which the verses are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know. A herald of good news and a warner, but most of them turn aside so they hear not.

Surah Fusselat (41): Verses 3-4

  1. Or do you think that most of them do hear or understand? They are nothing but as cattle; nay, they are straying farther off from the path.

Surah Furqaan (25): Verse 44

  1. Or, have they taken gods besides Him? Say: Bring your proof; this is the reminder of those with me and the reminder of those before me. Nay! Most of them do not know the truth, so they turn aside.

Surah Anbiya (21): Verse 24

  1. And most men will not believe though you desire it eagerly.

Surah Yusuf (10): Verse 103

  1. He said: Surely he has been unjust to you in demanding your ewe (to add) to his own ewes; and most surely most of the partners act wrongfully towards one another, save those who believe and do good, and very few are they; and Dawood was sure that We had tried him, so he sought the protection of his Lord and he fell down bowing and turned time after time (to Him).

Surah Saba (34): Verse 24

  1. The Holy Quran has praised the minority

On the other hand, there are instances where the Holy Quran has praised the minority.

  1. And when We made a covenant with the children of Israel: You shall not serve any but Allah and (you shall do) good to (your) parents, and to the near of kin and to the orphans and the needy, and you shall speak to men good words and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate. Then you turned back except a few of you and (now too) you turn aside.

Surah Baqarah (2): Verse 83

  1. And if We had prescribed for them: Lay down your lives or go forth from your homes, they would not have done it except a few of them; and if they had done what they were admonished, it would have certainly been better for them and best in strengthening (them).

Surah Nisa (4): Verse 66

  1. Therefore, for their breaking their covenant and their disbelief in the communications of Allah and their killing the prophets wrongfully and their saying: Our hearts are covered; nay! Allah set a seal upon them owing to their unbelief, so they shall not believe except a few.

Surah Nisa (4): Verse 155

  1. Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family– except those against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe. And there believed not with him but a few.

Surah Hud (11): Verse 40

  1. But why were there not among the generations before you those possessing understanding, who should have forbidden the making of mischief in the earth, except a few of those whom We delivered from among them? And those who were unjust went after what they are made to enjoy of plenty, and they were guilty.

Surah Hud (11): Verse 116

  1. They made for him what he pleased of fortresses and images, and bowls (large) as watering-troughs and cooking-pots that will not move from their place; give thanks, O family of Dawood! And very few of My servants are grateful.

Surah Saba (34): Verse 13

  1. He said: Surely he has been unjust to you in demanding your ewe (to add) to his own ewes; and most surely most of the partners act wrongfully towards one another, save those who believe and do good, and very few are they; and Dawood was sure that We had tried him, so he sought the protection of his Lord and he fell down bowing and turned time after time (to Him).

Surah Swaad (38): Verse 24

Thus it is confirmed by the verses of quran that majority always make decisions that are away from the truth like they neglected Imam Ali As against the order of the prophet saaw and followed their vain desires.

 

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On 2/8/2018 at 12:20 PM, skyweb1987 said:

The majority is always condemned in the verses of quran: like given below:

The Holy Quran has criticized the majority

In the following verses the Quran has condemned the view of the majority:

  1. And what reason have you that you should not eat of that on which Allah’s name has been mentioned, and He has already made plain to you what He has forbidden to you– excepting what you are compelled to; and most surely many would lead (people) astray by their low desires out of ignorance; surely your Lord– He best knows those who exceed the limits.

Surah Anaam (6): Verse 119

  1. And most of them do not follow (anything) but conjecture; surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth; surely Allah is cognizant of what they do.

Surah Yunus (10): Verse 36

  1. And even if We had sent down to them the angels and the dead had spoken to them and We had brought together all things before them, they would not believe unless Allah pleases, but most of them are ignorant.

Surah An’aam (6): Verse 111

  1. Or do they say: There is madness in him? Nay! He has brought them the truth, and most of them are averse from the truth.

Surah Momenoon (23): Verses 70-71

  1. Most surely there is a sign in that, but most of them will not believe.

Surah Shoara (26): Verse 8

  1. And We did not find in most of them any (faithfulness to) covenant, and We found most of them to be certainly transgressors.

Surah Aaraaf (7): Verse 102

  1. Allah has not ordained (the classification of camels into) a bahirah or a saibah or a wasilah or a hami but those who disbelieve fabricate a lie against Allah, and most of them do not understand.

Surah Maaedah (5): Verse103

  1. A Book of which the verses are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know. A herald of good news and a warner, but most of them turn aside so they hear not.

Surah Fusselat (41): Verses 3-4

  1. Or do you think that most of them do hear or understand? They are nothing but as cattle; nay, they are straying farther off from the path.

Surah Furqaan (25): Verse 44

  1. Or, have they taken gods besides Him? Say: Bring your proof; this is the reminder of those with me and the reminder of those before me. Nay! Most of them do not know the truth, so they turn aside.

Surah Anbiya (21): Verse 24

  1. And most men will not believe though you desire it eagerly.

Surah Yusuf (10): Verse 103

  1. He said: Surely he has been unjust to you in demanding your ewe (to add) to his own ewes; and most surely most of the partners act wrongfully towards one another, save those who believe and do good, and very few are they; and Dawood was sure that We had tried him, so he sought the protection of his Lord and he fell down bowing and turned time after time (to Him).

Surah Saba (34): Verse 24

  1. The Holy Quran has praised the minority

On the other hand, there are instances where the Holy Quran has praised the minority.

  1. And when We made a covenant with the children of Israel: You shall not serve any but Allah and (you shall do) good to (your) parents, and to the near of kin and to the orphans and the needy, and you shall speak to men good words and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate. Then you turned back except a few of you and (now too) you turn aside.

Surah Baqarah (2): Verse 83

  1. And if We had prescribed for them: Lay down your lives or go forth from your homes, they would not have done it except a few of them; and if they had done what they were admonished, it would have certainly been better for them and best in strengthening (them).

Surah Nisa (4): Verse 66

  1. Therefore, for their breaking their covenant and their disbelief in the communications of Allah and their killing the prophets wrongfully and their saying: Our hearts are covered; nay! Allah set a seal upon them owing to their unbelief, so they shall not believe except a few.

Surah Nisa (4): Verse 155

  1. Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family– except those against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe. And there believed not with him but a few.

Surah Hud (11): Verse 40

  1. But why were there not among the generations before you those possessing understanding, who should have forbidden the making of mischief in the earth, except a few of those whom We delivered from among them? And those who were unjust went after what they are made to enjoy of plenty, and they were guilty.

Surah Hud (11): Verse 116

  1. They made for him what he pleased of fortresses and images, and bowls (large) as watering-troughs and cooking-pots that will not move from their place; give thanks, O family of Dawood! And very few of My servants are grateful.

Surah Saba (34): Verse 13

  1. He said: Surely he has been unjust to you in demanding your ewe (to add) to his own ewes; and most surely most of the partners act wrongfully towards one another, save those who believe and do good, and very few are they; and Dawood was sure that We had tried him, so he sought the protection of his Lord and he fell down bowing and turned time after time (to Him).

Surah Swaad (38): Verse 24

Thus it is confirmed by the verses of quran that majority always make decisions that are away from the truth like they neglected Imam Ali As against the order of the prophet saaw and followed their vain desires.

Thank you but my question was that why did they even make that decision?u know like why did they reject ali in the first place IT WAS ALREADY SAID TO THEM BY THE PROPHET (P.B.U.H)HIMSELF  but i dont get why they decided to go to abu bakr instead

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On 2/8/2018 at 11:23 AM, realizm said:

:salam:

That's a whole new opinion here. 

This is not new opinion. If you look at the sunni literature you will find Muawiyah  brought about several innovations. Worse was making his son king forcibly . That is something , which if a person has even an iota of knowledge will never absolve Muawiyah of. Today what we are watching in Saudi Arabia is the result of Muawiyah.  Yazeed , and rest of the cruel , sinful rulers who came later were part of the system ,  the person who started  this was Muawiyah. 

Remember if someone does something good and later it is followed , the person will get reward even after his dead ,  but in same way if someone starts something wrong , he will get bad deeds after death also. 

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6 hours ago, Russel Ahmed said:

This is not new opinion. If you look at the sunni literature you will find Muawiyah  brought about several innovations. Worse was making his son king forcibly . That is something , which if a person has even an iota of knowledge will never absolve Muawiyah of. Today what we are watching in Saudi Arabia is the result of Muawiyah.  Yazeed , and rest of the cruel , sinful rulers who came later were part of the system ,  the person who started  this was Muawiyah. 

Remember if someone does something good and later it is followed , the person will get reward even after his dead ,  but in same way if someone starts something wrong , he will get bad deeds after death also. 

:salam:

I agree with you, I felt you undermined Yazid's responsability, hence my comment.

Being born in a wrong path does not protect you from Allah's wrath, especially when you sit on the throne of the Caliph and you kill the Progeny of the Prophet (sawas).

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it easy to take one hadith and paint the whole thing with it. but its not so simple. Surely that sahabas of the time knew more hadiths and authentic ones that us. they also knew the context and if so was the case than surely without ease he would've been elected. So we cant just take one hadith. and  If the prophet really said he was the ruler, than the sahabas and the people would have followed what he said. Some hadith are not authentic in both sunni and shia books.       

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On 4/2/2018 at 5:25 AM, realizm said:

:salam:

I agree with you, I felt you undermined Yazid's responsability, hence my comment.

Being born in a wrong path does not protect you from Allah's wrath, especially when you sit on the throne of the Caliph and you kill the Progeny of the Prophet (sawas).

No , I do not justify Yazeed or his actions. But Look at Yazeed Background. His mother was Christian , and he lived with them in his formative years , what Islam and respect for prophet and Ahle Bayat Do you expect from him ?  

Muawiyah was a companion , and despite that did such things , He is under more trouble. 

Trust me Muawiyah was THE father of Yazeed. 

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On 4/8/2018 at 4:42 AM, Tamashbin said:

it easy to take one hadith and paint the whole thing with it. but its not so simple. Surely that sahabas of the time knew more hadiths and authentic ones that us. they also knew the context and if so was the case than surely without ease he would've been elected. So we cant just take one hadith. and  If the prophet really said he was the ruler, than the sahabas and the people would have followed what he said. Some hadith are not authentic in both sunni and shia books.       

You seem to be spreading false assumptions and conjectures There is no response from your side on the posts replying in your similar thread.

The link is quoted as below:

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On 08/04/2018 at 4:42 PM, Tamashbin said:

 If the prophet really said he was the ruler, than the sahabas and the people would have followed what he said.

Sahabas are just regular human beings like us, they can be ignorant, egoistic, arrogant etc. Therefore your argument is very flawed.

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On 10/16/2017 at 11:51 AM, Natsu said:

SALAM 

i want to know why did the majority of the muslims didnt accept ali as their leader when prophet mohammaed (p.b.u.h)said “who follows me,follows ali”

BECAUSE their leader at that time was Prophet Muhammad (saw), so Ali (as) could not have been a 'leader' in the sense of a ruler at the same time. When Ali's time came, then he was accepted as a ruler by majority of Muslims.

So, this leaves us with interpreting the above quote as Ali (as) being a righteous person to follow, as identified by the prophet (saw).

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