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In the Name of God بسم الله

What is happening in Kurdistan???

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Kirkuk is a strategic place that the Kurds have taken. They use its oil to trade with other countries. Iran has advised Iraq to take over Kirkuk asap which will definitely have an impact on the independency of the Kurds.

Furthermore it's pretty logical that Iraq, Iran and Turkey are sending military units on the borders of the so-called Kurdistan region. What would you do if an Israel loving and supported group wanted to take a bite off your country? 

These guys should be dealt with Khomeini style tbh.

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Kirkuk belongs to the Iraqi government and they have all right to send their troops there if they wish.

The constitution of Iraq that has been written by arabs and kurds following saddams(la) fall states that the federal government forces have legal right to be everywhere which includes the kurdish regions.

I cannot believe how selfish and ego centered the kurdish leaders are to make such a move in a country that are still fighting terrorism and is in chaos, where people have been going thru hell for years now, heck generations. It this really the right time to push for independence and create another conflict? In the middle of a freaking war against daesh(la)?

To quote the Iraqi vice president: "We will not allow the creation of a second Israel in northern Iraq"

And befitting enough, the only country in the entire world that supports the kurds move at this point of time is israel, I wonder why?

Edited by IbnSina
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4 minutes ago, Mishael said:

I hope the Kurds achieve their state because they deserve it after so much suffering.

Under the current government they have had freedoms they have never had before, I dont see whats the problem or motivation to make such a move like this in a war thorn country still in chaos other than blind nationalism.

Also, if you want a state, you have to do it legally, you cant just take land forcefully and say its yours now and ask people that you dont consider belong to leave. What are you? Israel?

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This is a new type of economic terrorism that seems to be spreading around the world. And, as always, there is this filthy international victimism as a weapon to reach their selfish goals. The Iraqi government should act patiently and strategically.

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13 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Nationalism is disease, it makes even Muslims to kill other Muslims because of it.

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9 hours ago, Mishael said:

I hope the Kurds achieve their state because they deserve it after so much suffering.

We should learn from history and not repeat the same mistake the Europeans did after WW2. By this logic people defend the state of israel because "jews suffered too much during the holocaust". Does this justify their crusade against muslims and their finance towards so-called "islamic" jihadist groups and the massive support for another instable government in the Middle-East? Did their "suffering" in European countries then, justify their actions now to infiltrate governments and religious schools to create massive disunity of which we are suffering from as of today?

Just as what @Dhulfikar said. Nationalism is a disease, especially in the Middle-East. Kurds have been blinded by the fact that they will have borders and finally be independent. Giving them a piece of land because they suffered is a perspective that should be flushed down the toilet. When the Kurds asked Iran for military aid, they immediately received help while the Kurdish request for military aid to Washington was ignored and came way too late [daesh was putting siege on kurdish territories]. Few months later, Iran tells the Kurds to move their referendum to the future since it isn't the right time for something like that. Instead of listening or at least be corporative they backstabbed Iran and continued with it because their eagerness for some borders is way more important than having unition.

They do not care whether israel helps them with receiving their "divine" border or not. I know many muslim Kurds who even tell me they will stand up against figures like that Mahdi (as) if he would want to rule over them. I know a muslim Kurd who even made "sarcastic" jokes that if he would have his country, he would greet people saying "sjalom".

Kurds are going ham on borders that were made by European colonists. They are either not being able to comprehend the bigger picture [i.e. what is happening and why] or they are extremely stubborn and do not really give a singular care whether we as muslims stand united and work together or not. For them, being able to do some country administration, putting a Kurdish govt. logo on an official govt. paperwork is much more important than the fate of millions of people in return.

The resources in that region is for ALL the Iraqi citizens. Just low-key stealing it and thinking you can get away with it is should not be tolerated. But since the Western imperialists like to create instability which in return grants possibility of rulership over the Middle-East, they continue with helping the Kurdish region to its independency. I still remember those days when 90% of the Western world would simply ignore how much Hezbollah and the Syrian government was fighting daesh and they would only credit the Kurdish fighters.

If you would post a picture of a female peshmerga soldier on reddit with a catchy title about how much she resisted ISIS, you would get tons of upvotes and positive comments. Now post a picture of Abu Azrael from the PMU or a Hezbollah soldier and the comments will be flooded with: "criminal, american citizen killer, rapists" etc. Double standards my akhis?

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53 minutes ago, Mishael said:

By the way in a way the Crusades were justified but that's a whole other topic and I'm not just saying that Kurds are fighting Isis Hezbollah and the Iraqi Shia militants are doing much and helping us Christians. I praise people like Nasrallah or Abu Azrael and Bashar Al Assad or say Michael Oun. Kurds lived there for centuries just like the Jews in Israel.

I don't think this is the right place to discuss that topic either. Hence the reason I will not go further in to it.

May God accept your prayers brother.

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They already got land and power, Iraq is a Federal State. They don't want land, they want oil and money, and that's what Kirkuk is. It has nothing to do about suffering nor freedom nor all these fancy words that Media loves to exploit. Also, honestly, the Middle East has already a bunch of filthy sionist States to add one more to the list.

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On 10/14/2017 at 6:56 PM, Bakir said:

 

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They don't want land, they want oil and money, and that's what Kirkuk is.

It's an interesting way of formulating a presupposition against an entire. It completely ignores the history of Kirkuk and the context to which we have arrived at this point. 

The Iraqi central government does not want to implement article 140, the KRG does. This should be an indication enough for who is "justified". http://www.nrttv.com/en/birura-details.aspx?Jimare=6823 

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Therefore, Erbil and Baghdad must revisit Article 140, the transitional provision of the Iraqi Constitution that mandates the normalization, census, and referendum processes that must occur to determine the future status of each disputed territory, individually. This will resolve whether the territories will become part of the KRI or will remain within the IFG’s system of governorates.

Kirkuk was for a long period of time historically a Kurdish city and had a much larger kurdish population before the influex of Turkmens during the late Ottoman era and before the policy of Arabization by Saddam during the 70s. https://www.ncciraq.org/images/infobygov/NCCI_Kirkuk_Governorate_Profile.pdf

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Kurds were the predominant ethnic group in present day Kirkuk until the late 20th century, but a number of minorities have also inhabited the area for hundreds of years.

To add to Kurds wanting oil. I say, what is wrong with that? 

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honestly, the Middle East has already a bunch of filthy sionist States to add one more to the list.

In what way would Kurdistan be a "zionist state"? I have yet to see any hard evidence to support this claim. 

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5 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

In what way would Kurdistan be a "zionist state"? I have yet to see any hard evidence to support this claim. 

The whole world disproves of the kurdish independence referendum except for the state of israel which not only does not disprove of it but also encourages it and supports it.

Why on earth would the state of israel care at all about the kurds and their faith? Out of the kindness of the governments heart? Please.

Following that, you see people in kurdistan waving israeli flags around.

Brother please, its time to put our religion before our nationalities.

When a source of prime dhulm on earth like the government of the state of israel is supporting your actions, then its time to question oneself.

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1 hour ago, Dhulfikar said:

The conflict have started. Those who dies in this conflict wish to come back, because they will not find any benefit about nationalism in hereafter.

Today marks the day when the people who put Islam first clearly differentiate from the people who put their sense of false pride first (see nationalism).

See how the peshmerga twitter page are turning the conflict into "shia vs kurds" or "iran vs kurds" at the same time they keep pleading to israel and the US to help them. I hope they suffer utter defeat, I hope that will be the fate of every lap dog of israel and the US.

https://twitter.com/KURDISTAN_ARMY?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fnews%2F406773-iraq-kirkuk-operation-peshmerga%2F

 

https://www.rt.com/news/406773-iraq-kirkuk-operation-peshmerga/

Its funny, the general kurdish sentiment towards shias are turning so sour that even the other day one of my kurdish child hood friends who told me to not say Ya Hussein(as) because its shirk, that saddam(la) was actually good for the kurds...

Man are peoples brains developing backwards nowadays?

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Its not about developing backwards. Today, chasing money fiercely is called progress. If the US supports the unity of Iraq it's merely because of the benefits of the oil. As soon as the kurds offer them their benefits over Kurdistan, they will support them.

However, this will show the reality of both governments. Unilateral secession is not honest application of the right of self determination, and no country in the world would support such application out of fear of happening in their own territory and building a precedent. Laws are mostly based on precedents, and the Kurdistan's Independence is one of the worst doors the world can open.

The abuse of constitutional law by bringing pregnant women to gove birth in Kirkuk is an example of what the Kurdish government is promoting. These are the people wanting to build a new state. Zionists is the least severe adjective to describe the people leading this movement.

I just hope that the innocents aren't punished from the wrong actions of their leaders.

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The spokesperson of the Iraqi government says Qassem Soleimani, the commander of Iran’s Quds Force is a “military advisor” to the Hashd al-Shaabi forces in Iraq.

Speaking to Rudaw TV on Sunday night, Saad Hadithi, the spokesperson of the Iraqi government said that Soleimani plays a role in Iraq as “military advisor” to the Shiite Hashd al-Shaabi as there are Iranians and Americans existing in Iraq as well.

He said Soleimani has good relations with the Kurdistan Region as well as “he is now in Kurdistan.”

Concerning mounting tensions, Hadithi said they planned to resolve the Baghdad-Erbil relations through the constitution but the Kurdish leadership violated it when they unilaterally held the referendum on independence.

“The position of the Iraqi government has stemmed from the constitution. The Iraqi constitution has to be respected as it has been drafted by the political parties including the Kurdistan coalition,” said Hadithi. 

http://www.rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/151020176

Edited by Dhulfikar
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5 hours ago, Bakir said:

If the US supports the unity of Iraq it's merely because of the benefits of the oil.

Yes, that is exactly the case, if it wasnt for the wast amount of money they are stealing from Iraq today they would for sure have supported the kurds, might have been with weapons, tanks or even troops. Why not, I mean they seem to have some unemployed ex-daesh guys around nowadays.

Its the same reason as to why trump had to remove Iraq from the muslim ban list, because Iraq said that they would do the same to americans who want to go to Iraq, we cant have that you see.

 

 

Heres the two love birds in action:

CWdmHK_W4AEJK1_.jpg

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15 hours ago, IbnSina said:

 

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The whole world disproves of the kurdish independence referendum except for the state of israel which not only does not disprove of it but also encourages it and supports it.

You are employing what we call in academia sophistry and argument that looks intelligent but doesn't actually refute the point or answer the question. 

Firstly let me break it down simply for you. Kurdistan being a "zionist state" means Kurds are jews because Zionism according to the dictionary is 'jewish nationalism'; Kurds aren't jews. 

Secondly, Israeli "supporting" the Kurdish referendum doesn't constitute Kurdistan being a zionist state, that is complete illogical. 

Thirdly, why do you ignore the fact Israel also during the Iran-Iraq war provides weapons/munitions to Iran and supported Iran? 

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Why on earth would the state of israel care at all about the kurds and their faith? Out of the kindness of the governments heart? Please.

I never claimed it does care, it's self-interest. 

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Following that, you see people in kurdistan waving israeli flags around.

The Kurdish nation is 40 million, you've seen how many Kurds waving Israeli flags on the internet? A few dozen? Maybe even a few hundred? That doesn't come even close to Kurds "supporting Israel". 

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When a source of prime dhulm on earth like the government of the state of israel is supporting your actions, then its time to question oneself.

Yet the USA is supporting "your" actions, therefore how are you making an exception for Iraq but not for the KRG? 

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34 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Yes, that is exactly the case, if it wasnt for the wast amount of money they are stealing from Iraq today they would for sure have supported the kurds, might have been with weapons, tanks or even troops. Why not, I mean they seem to have some unemployed ex-daesh guys around nowadays.

Its the same reason as to why trump had to remove Iraq from the muslim ban list, because Iraq said that they would do the same to americans who want to go to Iraq, we cant have that you see.

 

 

Heres the two love birds in action:

CWdmHK_W4AEJK1_.jpg

You are so full of rhetoric, it's hard to even have a reasonable discussion with you. 

 

Quote

Although secrecy is the first principle in the netherworld of arms trading, details of several subsequent major Israeli arms sales to Iran have come to light. In 1981, Ya'acov Nimrodi, an intimate of leaders across the Israeli political spectrum, sold the Iranian defense ministry $135,842,000 worth of Hawk anti-aircraft missiles, 155 mm. mortars, ammunition, and other weapons through his Tel Aviv-based company, International Desalination Equipment, Ltd. From 1955 to 1979 Nimrodi had been Israel's military attache in Tehran.

https://www.wrmea.org/1986-november/israeli-arms-sales-to-iran.html

 

Edited by Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī
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Conflicts on such scale are not solved by dialogue when one of the parts completely disobeys the other. Not only over the dispute of Kirkuk, but also over the Referendun to begin with.

Forcing a Referendum under such pressure and starting an unilateral secession resisted by regional troops, attacking the federal government, is not will to dialogue. It is the type of behaviour that should be answered firmly and directly, especially when cockroaches such as the zionists are behind it.

May God bless all those fighters and their families and protect them from all evil as they are giving their lives to protect the people and integrity of Iraq.

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18 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Brother please, its time to put our religion before our nationalities.

Religion hardly ever trumps cultural/linguistic association and ties, it wouldn't for Iraqis either.  Lets face it, the Kurds got a terrible deal after the world war, their people were cut and divided across 4 different states.  The way they carved out Iraq also made no sense whatsoever.  Iraq is responding like any nation state would, but you can hardly blame the Kurds for wanting more autonomy and independence.  Also, just because Israel is backing the movement doesn't make it inherently illegitimate.  Just because Pakistan backs Kashmir or India Balochi separatists doesn't make their plea for independence illegitimate.

Edited by King
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7 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Firstly let me break it down simply for you. Kurdistan being a "zionist state" means Kurds are jews because Zionism according to the dictionary is 'jewish nationalism'; Kurds aren't jews. 

Secondly, Israeli "supporting" the Kurdish referendum doesn't constitute Kurdistan being a zionist state, that is complete illogical. 

Thirdly, why do you ignore the fact Israel also during the Iran-Iraq war provides weapons/munitions to Iran and supported Iran? 

No brother, zionism does not necessary have to do with jews, Zionism is a political movement and ideology of israeli superiority, there are christian zionists as well, I am sure you are aware of this.

Here, from your own source: https://www.wrmea.org/special-topics/zionism-and-its-impact.html

The israeli government would only support the kurds if it was, just like you said, in their self interest and what is the interest of the israeli government ruled by extremists zionists and how does that correlate to the shia muslim world and the place of meraj?

A government that supports the zionist agenda, which a new kurdistan would, would in fact be considered a zionist state, that is not far fetched as per the definition of what zionism actually is politically speaking.

Your saying israel sold weapons and gave support to Iran, you gave me a source for this but I do not know how reliable this source is. But either way, lets say they did, and how did that end for them? Some say the CIA helped Khomeini(RA) get to power in Iran, okay, and how did that end for them?

 

8 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

The Kurdish nation is 40 million, you've seen how many Kurds waving Israeli flags on the internet? A few dozen? Maybe even a few hundred? That doesn't come even close to Kurds "supporting Israel".

I would say that the general sentiment of the kurdish population are positive towards israel or any other country that supports them (such as french politicians and think tanks, see linked picture with bernad levy and bernard koucher https://i.imgur.com/usVzrWx.jpg) in their aim to create a new country, would the people say that they dont like israel back? And if you like someone, dont you support them? Normally you do. Nationalism often works like that, it blinds you and makes you self centered.

Okay, lets forget about the people. How about the leaders, what is their affiliation with the israeli government?

 

8 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Yet the USA is supporting "your" actions, therefore how are you making an exception for Iraq but not for the KRG? 

Its in the interest of shias not to have a zionist friendly "yes man" of a country right by the borders of the major shia nations.

And its in the interest of the US to not make the iraqi government upset or ells it will be hard to steal resources undisturbed.

 

Now brother, lets me ask you a question, I would really like you to reply to it:

If you had to choose between an action which will benefit the shias of the world or the kurds of the world which one would you choose?

Bare in mind, in my question helping one would mean bad news for the other and there was no way of helping both and you had to choose.

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5 hours ago, King said:

Religion hardly ever trumps cultural/linguistic association and ties, it wouldn't for Iraqis either

Yes you are unfortunately right in both your statements, the shias of iraq showed that during the iraq and iran war, but it does not need to continue like that. If we want to work for the arrival of our Imam(ajf) then we need to put national identify behind us and haqq ahead of us.

 

6 hours ago, King said:

Lets face it, the Kurds got a terrible deal after the world war, their people were cut and divided across 4 different states.  The way they carved out Iraq also made no sense whatsoever.  Iraq is responding like any nation state would, but you can hardly blame the Kurds for wanting more autonomy and independence.  Also, just because Israel is backing the movement doesn't make it inherently illegitimate.  Just because Pakistan backs Kashmir or India Balochi separatists doesn't make their plea for independence illegitimate.

There are ways of conducting when you wish to create an independent country and taking advantage of a chaos ridden country which are still fighting the same terrorists that would kill you as well, is not the way to do it.

If israel, a great enemy against islam, shias in particular, is supporting you, then you need to question what it is that your doing and if it is right. What interest does israel have in kurdistan? You tell me and should you serve those interests?

As far as independence goes, lets take the kurds of Iran as an example, do they lack anything or are they restricted in anyways? No, so whats the problem exactly? They are in fact very integrated and considered persians.

The kurds should not be oppressed, they should be allowed to speak their own language if they wish and practice their culture within the limits of islam, not like how they are treated in turkey, dhulm is never accepted of course.

But lets be clear about something, when we are talking about kurdistan and the conflict today, they are talking about "south kurdistan" so this conflict will not stop here if it continues and as long as israel has a finger in it and supports this cause we must take extreme caution. 

You are correct in your statement that just because somebody bad supports somebody ells, that does not make the goal bad in by itself. But if that somebody ells serves the bad person supporting them and their goals in return, whether it is directly or indirectly, then that changes the situation. In this case we are talking about the support of israel and the serving of their interests.

 

 

 

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I'm curious to know your position and the opinion of Feyli Kurds in general about seeking an independent Kurdistan, @Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī. I'm assuming you're Kurdish from your name. I've heard most Feyli Kurds dislike pretty much all the main players, PUK, KDP, and Hezb al-da'wah. So what's the alternative?

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