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In the Name of God بسم الله

muslim and non muslim marriage

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Guest agnosticalmuslim

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1 hour ago, Guest agnosticalmuslim said:

Why is it fair that a muslim man can marry a christian or jew , but a wiman can't? 

In Shia fiqh, A muslims can engage in temporary marriage with a Jew or Christian woman not permanent marriage. 

The reason for which Muslim can marry a Christian or Jew female is that he will maintain her respect which is obligatory upon her and also assist her in guiding to true path. 

However, the Jews or Christians have forgotten in their religion the respect and dignity of woman and they will not stop her from whatever dressing she does and whatever bad habit she adopts and they will add to her ruin instead of guiding for they are not themselves guided to true path. 

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58 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

In Shia fiqh, A muslims can engage in temporary marriage with a Jew or Christian woman not permanent marriage. 

The reason for which Muslim can marry a Christian or Jew female is that he will maintain her respect which is obligatory upon her and also assist her in guiding to true path. 

However, the Jews or Christians have forgotten in their religion the respect and dignity of woman and they will not stop her from whatever dressing she does and whatever bad habit she adopts and they will add to her ruin instead of guiding for they are not themselves guided to true path. 

But surely a non muslim wife could stop a muslim man from practicing religion as well. Why does it only work one way? 

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Just now, Guest agnosticalmuslim said:

But surely a non muslim wife could stop a muslim man from practicing religion as well. Why does it only work one way? 

Per Islamic law a wife should submit herself to husband and not vise versa.

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3 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

In Shia fiqh, A muslims can engage in temporary marriage with a Jew or Christian woman not permanent marriage. 

This depends on the marja you follow. Some fuqaha allow permanent marriage with Christian or Jewish women, like Sayyed Sadiq Al-Rouhani.

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5 hours ago, Guest agnosticalmuslim said:

Why is it fair that a muslim man can marry a christian or jew , but a wiman can't? 

When someone only looks at a specific Islamic rule, these confusions happens. We need to look at Islam as a package. If we ONLY look at one specific rule, it brings confusion. For example, is it fair that a Muslim man say why should I provide for my wife her entire life? He only looks at one specific thing and not the whole of it. In return, that woman brings peace into your life and obeys you Islamically. Look at the whole thing.

Husband has more effect and authority in family even in non-islamic families. If a Muslim man do a temporary marriage with a woman, he can use this effect and authority to affect on her. Plus, permanent marriage is not allowed. Women are not that much strong to affect on males if they don't get affected. Women need to be protected and supported. The believes of the non-muslim husband affects on her, and may bring confusion thoughts about her religion.

To me, every single rule of this religion makes sense to me. If not, I say I know there is a God in this world. I know he created this world. The person who created this world with this accuracy, has more knowledge than me. I prefer him to rule out in my life rather than question his rules just because I don't understand the background of the rules.

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5 hours ago, Guest agnosticalmuslim said:

But surely a non muslim wife could stop a muslim man from practicing religion as well. Why does it only work one way? 

Because men is physically stronger than her and she cannot beat him to turn away from his religion. However, if men happens to be a non-Muslims who is not aware of Islam and do not know that it is forbidden to even verbally oppose his wife for just cause and even there is no one who may control him but religious man accepts sovereignty of Allah AWJ. 

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3 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

For example:- A lion and dear is put into a cage, if the lion is not trained to be afraid of his master, he would eat the dear up right? But if that lion is afraid of his master, then due to his fear, he may even be good towards deer. However, in both cases, dear cannot overwhelm lion. 

Lol have you ever heard of male domestic abuse? You need to google it. Women arent as weak and submissive as islam makes them out to be

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3 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Because men is physically stronger than her and she cannot beat him to turn away from his religion. However, if men happens to be a non-Muslims who is not aware of Islam and do not know that it is forbidden to even verbally oppose his wife for just cause and even there is no one who may control him but religious man accepts sovereignty of Allah AWJ. 

Are ALL men really physically stronger? Come on....

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6 hours ago, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

When someone only looks at a specific Islamic rule, these confusions happens. We need to look at Islam as a package. If we ONLY look at one specific rule, it brings confusion. For example, is it fair that a Muslim man say why should I provide for my wife her entire life? He only looks at one specific thing and not the whole of it. In return, that woman brings peace into your life and obeys you Islamically. Look at the whole thing.

Husband has more effect and authority in family even in non-islamic families. If a Muslim man do a temporary marriage with a woman, he can use this effect and authority to affect on her. Plus, permanent marriage is not allowed. Women are not that much strong to affect on males if they don't get affected. Women need to be protected and supported. The believes of the non-muslim husband affects on her, and may bring confusion thoughts about her religion.

To me, every single rule of this religion makes sense to me. If not, I say I know there is a God in this world. I know he created this world. The person who created this world with this accuracy, has more knowledge than me. I prefer him to rule out in my life rather than question his rules just because I don't understand the background of the rules.

We live in the 21st century not 7th cent arabia. Women can earn and work. A man no longer has to be the provider

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34 minutes ago, Guest agnosticalmuslim said:

Lol have you ever heard of male domestic abuse? You need to google it. Women arent as weak and submissive as islam makes them out to be

Islam does not say that they are weak. Islam says that they are different. A woman whose everything is her children and family, how could she live in a house where she would be abused and mocked for her belief. However, Islam consider that man has more endurance and ability to convince his wife. 

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12 hours ago, Guest agnosticalmuslim said:

Why is it fair that a muslim man can marry a christian or jew , but a wiman can't? 

Its all about the children and future generations from that marriage.

Its no secret that most of the time the children follow the path of the father (either directly or indirectly) regardless of how the Mother may train and teach them.

The reason why a Man can marry is for the concept that the children of that marriage will eventually embrace Islam. The opposite applies to a Woman. Her children will follow the steps of their father in whatever manner and go away from Islam.

Same logic applies to why our Ayatullahs discourage highly why a Shia girl should not marry a Sunni guy.

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56 minutes ago, Guest agnosticalmuslim said:

We live in the 21st century not 7th cent arabia. Women can earn and work. A man no longer has to be the provider

They used to earn and were much stronger than existing woman who cry just seeing a lizard and also men were stronger mentally too. 

In fact,  our Prophet PBUHHP married a business woman and he was business man too.

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1 hour ago, Akbar673 said:

Its all about the children and future generations from that marriage.

Its no secret that most of the time the children follow the path of the father (either directly or indirectly) regardless of how the Mother may train and teach them.

The reason why a Man can marry is for the concept that the children of that marriage will eventually embrace Islam. The opposite applies to a Woman. Her children will follow the steps of their father in whatever manner and go away from Islam.

Same logic applies to why our Ayatullahs discourage highly why a Shia girl should not marry a Sunni guy.

But what if the non muslim husband allows his children to choose in which faith they want to be and the islamic wife makes a good muslims out of her children? 

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2 hours ago, Warior said:

But what if the non muslim husband allows his children to choose in which faith they want to be and the islamic wife makes a good muslims out of her children? 

Sure, but honestly how often does that happen?

That's the rare exception that you are speaking on, not the norm.

 

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4 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Islam does not say that they are weak. Islam says that they are different. A woman whose everything is her children and family, how could she live in a house where she would be abused and mocked for her belief. However, Islam consider that man has more endurance and ability to convince his wife. 

Or she might be cherished and loved. Why is everything a worst case scenario?

There is nothing wrong with wanting to stay within your own faith to marry, but people who choose to marry outside their own faith system already likely have more tolerant ideas. Their families likely do, too.

My son-in-law says he feels far more harmonious with us than he does with a lot of his fellow Muslims. No Catholic has ever tried to beat the stuffing out of him or called him nasty names.

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As much as I realized, some of you guys are saying that Islam has developped through ages and managed to become sociable with a modern life. So if a woman muslim maries a non muslim, but her children become muslims, it is not a sin? Forgive me for my disinformations but in some sunni hadises I even heard that a woman muslim is kicked out of Islam if she maries a non muslim. And if it happens that everyone in her family is Islamic except the husband? I feel very unpleasant to hear that a personcan be kicked out of religion, I think if I believe in Allah no one can stop me to live with that faith.

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4 hours ago, Guest agnosticalmuslim said:

We live in the 21st century not 7th cent arabia. Women can earn and work. A man no longer has to be the provider

Thank you for living in RealityVille on Planet Earth with the rest of us.

I don't know what dysfunctional galaxy some folks are from.

Not trying to argue with the rule book ( my religion has one as thick as your arm) but some of the arguments supposedly supporting the rules are enough to cross your eyes. 

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I am not sure what is fair or not fair as to who can marry a non Muslim, but where the real issue that really cannot be ignored is when you need to decide in what faith to raise your children.  And if the (opt out?) plan is for the kids to choose their religion when they get older, they would have to be schooled in both and also practice both from a very young age. It will quickly become apparent that some religious dogmas and teachings are definitely not Islamic (and vice versa).  This would be confusing and stressful for everyone.

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Well, this question is really more about the reason behind why males can do something and women can't than Muslim/non-Muslim marriage in general. So don't know what more I could add to the discussion.

In Catholicism any marriage restrictions are ,AFAIK, the same for both genders. (Possible exceptions might be conflicts as to  parental rite within the Church,but not going to get into that here because it would likely bore everyone to tears.)

I do think what @forte brought up is absolutely one of the biggest practical problems interfaith couples have. In actuality, in free religiously pluralistic societies, folks eventually  have a choice of religion anyway. However, most interfaith couples I know have come to a decision on how to raise the kids prior to marriage. Most have decided to bring up the kids in one faith, although they obviously usually get exposed organically to the other parent's as well. Bringing them up in both is theoretically possible, but I imagine practically very difficult. I don't know anyone trying that.

Lastly, Here's a list I found helpful to discuss pre-wedding with my daughter. You may not agree with all of these,but think they are worth a look.

Don't Make These Mistakes in Your Interfaith Marriage
 by Sheri Stritof

 Ignoring your religious differences.

Taking a "love conquers all" attitude and ignoring the problem thinking it will go away. 

Believing that your different religious affiliations are unimportant in the long term.

Thinking that a sense of humor is all that you need to survive the religious differences in your interfaith marriage.

Discounting that there are some decisions that can not be compromised such as circumcision, baptism, bris, tithing, and more.

Believing that differences in faith will always be an irreconcilable problem in your interfaith marriage.

Failing to recognize the importance of understanding, respecting, accepting, and dealing with your religious differences in your interfaith marriage.

Unless there has been parental abuse, making the decision to cut ties with extended family.

Assuming that you understand all of one another's faith issues.

Believing that your love for each other will conquer all your interfaith marriage problems.

Thinking that converting to your spouse's faith will make things easier.

Dismissing your family's concerns about your interfaith marriage.

Believing that your interfaith marriage won't face any hurdles.

Not discussing, prior to your interfaith marriage, concerns around your children's religious upbringing.

Refusing to discover the common characteristics your religions may have.

Not being open to examining how your backgrounds, religions, and cultures have shaped your attitudes and beliefs.

Failure to plan ahead for the holidays and other special life-cycle events.

Forcing your beliefs upon your partner.

Turning the holidays into a competition between your faiths.

Not understanding your own faith.

Continuing to push hot buttons about faith differences.

Letting family and friends get in the middle of your interfaith marital relationship.

Having a lack of respect for each other's heritage.

Not being curious about your partner's heritage, culture or religious beliefs. 

Failing to timely inform your families and friends of your holiday decisions.

Forcing your children to feel as if they must choose between their father's or mother's religion.

Giving your children negative vibes, attitudes or comments about your partner's religion. 

Privatizing your religious belief and not claiming or talking about your faith with your spouse.

Giving in so much that you lose your own traditions and ultimately, your own self-respect.

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7 hours ago, Warior said:

As much as I realized, some of you guys are saying that Islam has developped through ages and managed to become sociable with a modern life. So if a woman muslim maries a non muslim, but her children become muslims, it is not a sin? Forgive me for my disinformations

There is no way to guaranty her children shall be Muslims since (by Islamic law) children belong to the father. In some cases they can be but in some cannot be, and avoiding those latter cases is superior.

Just imagine there is a couple where the wife is Muslim and Husband is a western moderate christian  Yes likely he shall allow her to practice her religion but their children will be under his influence as well. And there is no way (again in Islamic law) to guaranty he won't change his mind and force her to convert because he himself is not bound by any Islamic norm or law.

 

But this is also a big cultural problem. It is just "we can take their women and they can't take ours" and many people are proud of it. If you view through this forum or talk to relevant people you shall notice that "white" reverts (people of non Muslim origin) have same marriage issue. I am not saying everyone is like that but many are. Even "secular" families from countries like Iran living abroad won't let their daughter marry a local even if she doesn't practice religion at all (e.g. doesn't pray, wear hijab).

People in general like caste systems especially when they thing to be in a privileged "caste".

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9 hours ago, Warior said:

As much as I realized, some of you guys are saying that Islam has developped through ages and managed to become sociable with a modern life. So if a woman muslim maries a non muslim, but her children become muslims, it is not a sin? Forgive me for my disinformations but in some sunni hadises I even heard that a woman muslim is kicked out of Islam if she maries a non muslim. And if it happens that everyone in her family is Islamic except the husband? I feel very unpleasant to hear that a personcan be kicked out of religion, I think if I believe in Allah no one can stop me to live with that faith.

I am sorry but islam is for all times and it does not changes it's laws which relate to permanent threats. Being a non-muslim is a threat for a Muslim wife or husband and Islam says that if someone turns apostate then the marriage relationship with muslim person ends.

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21 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Here's a list I found helpful to discuss pre-wedding with my daughter. You may not agree with all of these,but think they are worth a look.

Don't Make These Mistakes in Your Interfaith Marriage
 by Sheri Stritof

 Ignoring your religious differences.

Taking a "love conquers all" attitude and ignoring the problem thinking it will go away. 

Believing that your different religious affiliations are unimportant in the long term.

Thinking that a sense of humor is all that you need to survive the religious differences in your interfaith marriage.

Discounting that there are some decisions that can not be compromised such as circumcision, baptism, bris, tithing, and more.

Believing that differences in faith will always be an irreconcilable problem in your interfaith marriage.

Failing to recognize the importance of understanding, respecting, accepting, and dealing with your religious differences in your interfaith marriage.

Unless there has been parental abuse, making the decision to cut ties with extended family.

Assuming that you understand all of one another's faith issues.

Believing that your love for each other will conquer all your interfaith marriage problems.

Thinking that converting to your spouse's faith will make things easier.

Dismissing your family's concerns about your interfaith marriage.

Believing that your interfaith marriage won't face any hurdles.

Not discussing, prior to your interfaith marriage, concerns around your children's religious upbringing.

Refusing to discover the common characteristics your religions may have.

Not being open to examining how your backgrounds, religions, and cultures have shaped your attitudes and beliefs.

Failure to plan ahead for the holidays and other special life-cycle events.

Forcing your beliefs upon your partner.

Turning the holidays into a competition between your faiths.

Not understanding your own faith.

Continuing to push hot buttons about faith differences.

Letting family and friends get in the middle of your interfaith marital relationship.

Having a lack of respect for each other's heritage.

Not being curious about your partner's heritage, culture or religious beliefs. 

Failing to timely inform your families and friends of your holiday decisions.

Forcing your children to feel as if they must choose between their father's or mother's religion.

Giving your children negative vibes, attitudes or comments about your partner's religion. 

Privatizing your religious belief and not claiming or talking about your faith with your spouse.

Giving in so much that you lose your own traditions and ultimately, your own self-respect.

Marriage is a stressful time of adjustment between a couple, and between both of their families. Having to deal with these kinds of issues (in the list you provided) will make interfaith marriage even more difficult.

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