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In the Name of God بسم الله
Mohammadi_follower

Flood and prophet nuh as

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19 minutes ago, andres said:

I also believe that God started evolution. He did not create us from clay, as also the Bible and Sumerians believed. But it is a belief, not a fact. Therefore "if".

It may have sounded as if I restrict our ancestors to Mammals only. I dont. Bacterias DNA are composed of the same 4 bases, composed of the same 5 chemical elements. You need lots of fantasy to find evolution described in the Bible and Quran.

Description of the Creation of Adam

منها: في صفة خلق آدم (عليه السلام)

Allah collected from hard, soft, sweet and sour earth, clay which He dripped in water till it got pure, and kneaded it with moisture till it became gluey. From it He carved an image with curves, joints, limbs and segments. He solidified it till it dried up for a fixed time and a known duration. Then He blew into it out of His Spirit whereupon it took the pattern of a human being with mind that governs him, intelligence which he makes use of, limbs that serve him, organs that change his position, sagacity that differentiates between truth and untruth, tastes and smells, colours and species. He is a mixture of clays of different colours, cohesive materials, divergent contradictories and differing properties like heat, cold, softness and hardness, grief and joy.

ثُمَّ جَمَعَ سُبْحَانَهُ مِنْ حَزْنِ الاْرْضِ وَسَهْلِهَا، وَعَذْبِهَا وَسَبَخِهَا، تُرْبَةً سَنَّهَا بالمَاءِ حَتَّى خَلَصَتْ، وَلاَطَهَا بِالبَلَّةِ حَتَّى لَزَبَتْ، فَجَبَلَ مِنْها صُورَةً ذَاتَ أَحْنَاء وَوُصُول، وَأَعْضَاء وَفُصُول: أَجْمَدَهَا حَتَّى اسْتَمْسَكَتْ، وَأَصْلَدَهَا حَتَّى صَلْصَلَتْ، لِوَقْت مَعْدُود، وَأجَل مَعْلُوم، ثُمَّ نَفَخَ فِيها مِنْ رُوحِهِ فَمَثُلَتْ إِنْساناً ذَا أَذْهَان يُجيلُهَا، وَفِكَر يَتَصَرَّفُ بِهَا، وَجَوَارِحَ يَخْتَدِمُهَا، وَأَدَوَات يُقَلِّبُهَا، وَمَعْرِفَة يَفْرُقُ بِهَا بَيْنَ الحَقِّ وَالبَاطِلِ، والاَذْوَاقِ والَمشَامِّ، وَالاْلوَانِ وَالاْجْنَاس، مَعْجُوناً بطِينَةِ الاْلوَانِ الُمخْتَلِفَةِ، وَالاَشْبَاهِ المُؤْتَلِفَةِ، وَالاْضْدَادِ المُتَعَادِيَةِ، والاْخْلاطِ المُتَبَايِنَةِ، مِنَ الحَرِّ والبَرْدِ، وَالبَلَّةِ وَالْجُمُودِ، وَالْمَساءَةِ وَالسُّرُورِ،

Then Allah asked the angels to fulfil His promise with them and to accomplish the pledge of His injunction to them by acknowledging Him through prostration to Him and submission to His honoured position. So Allah said:

Be prostrate towards Adam and they prostrated except Iblis (Satan).” (Qur’an, 2:34; 7:11; 17:61; 18:50; 20:116)

Self-importance withheld him and vice overcame him. So that he took pride in his own creation with fire and treated contemptuously the creation of clay. So Allah allowed him time in order to let him fully deserve His wrath, and to complete (man’s) test and to fulfil the promise (He had made to Satan). Thus, He said:

Verily you have been allowed time till the known Day. “ (Qur’an, 15:38; 38:81)

وَاسْتَأْدَى اللهُ سُبْحَانَهُ المَلائكَةَ وَدِيعَتَهُ لَدَيْهِمْ، وَعَهْدَ وَصِيَّتِهِ إِلَيْهمْ، في الاْذْعَانِ بالسُّجُودِ لَهُ، وَالخُنُوعِ لِتَكْرِمَتِهِ، فَقَالَ عزَّمِن قائِل: ( اسْجُدُوا لاِدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلاَّ إِبْلِيسَ)، اعْتَرَتْهُ الحَمِيَّةُ، وَغَلَبَتْ عَلَيْهِ الشِّقْوَةُ، وَتَعَزَّزُ بِخِلْقَةِ النَّارِ، وَاسْتَوْهَنَ خَلْقَ الصَّلْصَالِ، فَأَعْطَاهُ اللهُ تَعالَى النَّظِرَةَ اسْتِحْقَاقاً لِلسُّخْطَةِ، وَاسْتِتْماماً لِلْبَلِيَّةِ، وَإِنْجَازاً لِلْعِدَةِ، فَقَالَ: (إنَّكَ مِنَ المُنْظَرِينَ إِلَى يَوْمِ الْوَقْتِ الْمَعْلُومِ)

Thereafter, Allah inhabited Adam (p.b.u.h.) in a house where He made his life pleasant and his stay safe, and He cautioned him of Iblis and his enmity. Then his enemy (Iblis) envied his abiding in Paradise and his contacts with the virtuous. So he changed his conviction into wavering and determination into weakness. He thus converted his happiness into fear and his prestige into shame. Then Allah offered to Adam (p.b.u.h.) the chance to repent, taught him words of His Mercy, promised him return to His Paradise and sent him down to the place of trial and procreation of progeny.

ثُمَّ أَسْكَنَ سُبْحَانَهُ آدَمَ دَاراً أرْغَدَ فِيهَاعَيْشَهُ، وَآمَنَ فِيهَا مَحَلَّتَهُ، وَحَذَّرَهُ إِبْلِيسَ وَعَدَاوَتَهُ، فَاغْتَرَّهُ عَدُوُّهُ نَفَاسَةً عَلَيْهِ بِدَارِ الْمُقَامِ، وَمُرَافَقَةِ الاْبْرَارِ، فَبَاعَ الْيَقِينَ بِشَكِّهِ، وَالعَزِيمَةَ بِوَهْنِهِ، وَاسْتَبْدَلَ بِالْجَذَلِ وَجَلاً، وَبِالاْغْتِرَارِ نَدَماً.

ثُمَّ بَسَطَ اللهُ سُبْحَانَهُ لَهُ في تَوْبَتِهِ، وَلَقَّاهُ كَلِمَةَ رَحْمَتِهِ، وَوَعَدَهُ المَرَدَّ إِلَى جَنَّتِهِ، فَأَهْبَطَهُ إِلَى دَارِ الَبَلِيَّةِ، وَتَنَاسُلِ الذُّرِّيَّةِ.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-1-praise-due-Allah-whose-worth-cannot-be-descrive#description-creation-adam

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18 minutes ago, andres said:

He did not create us from clay, as also the Bible and Sumerians believed

:) Are you unaware of the latest scientific research? Lets me quote some paragraphs & links for you:
 

Quote

In 1949, the Irish scientist J.D. Bernal suggested that clay minerals may have created a meeting place for life's first molecules. Such a scenario could explain how the randomly dispersed molecules of life managed to come together in the diffuse primordial soup.

Cairns-Smith's idea takes Bernal's theory a step further. In his view, clay mineral layers not only attracted certain chemicals from the environment to their surfaces, the mineral layers also acted as the first genetic information carriers, much as the base pairs in DNA do today.

"The objects that I'm particularly interested in are mixed-layered crystals, in which the crystal structure consists of beautifully formed layers packed on top of each other, but with an arbitrary sequence," says Cairns-Smith. "In that respect, they're like a DNA molecule, which has base pairs, little platelets inside it which are stacked on top of each other. It is the sequence of this stacking which creates the information."

Cairns-Smith doesn't think the clay mineral crystals were "alive" anymore than a DNA sample is thought to be alive. Instead, by acting as the first genetic materials for early life, clay mineral crystals created a link between the worlds of inorganic and organic chemistry.


https://www.space.com/6456-life-crystal-code.html

Another link describes this:

 

Quote

With colleagues Professor Neal Skipper from UCL, Dr Martin Smalley from York University and Dr Chris Greenwell from Durham University he replaced the cationsbetween the layers making up natural clay molecules with weakly bound organic cations, causing the clay layers to drift apart. 
That created an extremely sensitive clay system with sufficient space to insert both left-handed and right-handed forms of the amino acid histidine between the layers.

‘We found that the R- and S-histidine molecules interact differently with the clay surfaces. These clays are abiotically able to select for chirality – left- or right-handedness – as well as being implicated in the abiotic synthesis of RNA,’ Professor Fraser says. ‘Our experiments were the first to show that clay molecules could do that.

‘We also found that the tiny interlayer space some 5nm wide was a very important dynamic region for studying prebiotic chemistry and that the reactions of simple chemicals there leads to the formation both of RNA oligomers and the selection of left-handed amino acids.’

Clays have also been shown by Jack Szostak and others to enable fatty acids to form primitive cells and, interestingly, clays show similar selective behaviour in space, as reported recently by the NASA scientists Glavin and Dworkin.

Amino acids contained in the meteorites Murchison and Orgueil show enrichment in S-amino acids and this correlates with the amount of intrinsic hydrous clay present in these primitive meteorites that are 4.55 billion years old. ‘The amino acid studied – isovaline – cannot be a contaminant as it is not found in terrestrial living systems,’ Professor Fraser explains. ‘We are thus building an increasingly detailed picture of the steps that lead to the origin of life.


http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/science-blog/did-clay-mould-life’s-origins

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160823-the-idea-that-life-began-as-clay-crystals-is-50-years-old

And here is the important one:
 

Quote

Clay, a seemingly infertile blend of minerals, might have been the birthplace of life on Earth. Or at least of the complex biochemicals that make life possible, Cornell University biological engineers report in the Nov. 7 online issue of the journal Scientific Reports, published by Nature Publishing.

"We propose that in early geological history clay hydrogel provided a confinement function for biomolecules and biochemical reactions," said Dan Luo, professor of biological and environmental engineering and a member of the Kavli Institute at Cornell for Nanoscale Science.

In simulated ancient seawater, clay forms a hydrogel -- a mass of microscopic spaces capable of soaking up liquids like a sponge. Over billions of years, chemicals confined in those spaces could have carried out the complex reactions that formed proteins, DNA and eventually all the machinery that makes a living cell work. Clay hydrogels could have confined and protected those chemical processes until the membrane that surrounds living cells developed.

 

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8 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Description of the Creation of Adam

منها: في صفة خلق آدم (عليه السلام)

Allah collected from hard, soft, sweet and sour earth, clay which He dripped in water till it got pure, and kneaded it with moisture till it became gluey. From it He carved an image with curves, joints, limbs and segments. He solidified it till it dried up for a fixed time and a known duration. Then He blew into it out of His Spirit whereupon it took the pattern of a human being with mind that governs him, intelligence which he makes use of, limbs that serve him, organs that change his position, sagacity that differentiates between truth and untruth, tastes and smells, colours and species. He is a mixture of clays of different colours, cohesive materials, divergent contradictories and differing properties like heat, cold, softness and hardness, grief and joy.

Not that different from the Bible. In my part of the world, before we converted to Christianity, Earth was said to have been created by the Gods Wothan and Thor from the corps of the giant Ymer. 

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6 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

:) Are you unaware of the latest scientific research? Lets me quote some paragraphs & links for you:
 


https://www.space.com/6456-life-crystal-code.html

 

"Allah collected from hard, soft, sweet and sour earth, clay which He dripped in water till it got pure, and kneaded it with moisture till it became gluey. From it He carved an image with curves, joints, limbs and segments. He solidified it till it dried up for a fixed time and a known duration."

This has got nothing to do with the theory of Evolution.

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6 minutes ago, andres said:

"Allah collected from hard, soft, sweet and sour earth, clay which He dripped in water till it got pure, and kneaded it with moisture till it became gluey. From it He carved an image with curves, joints, limbs and segments. He solidified it till it dried up for a fixed time and a known duration."

This has got nothing to do with the theory of Evolution.

This is the description of creation of Adam (a.s) so how can it be linked to evolution theory? 

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4 hours ago, andres said:

Did I say so?  No. The Biblical story has got nothing to do with evolution. 

What is mentioned above in the sermon of Imam Ali (asws), did involve evolution as Allah (s.w.t) never said "Be" (Kun) for all those steps mentioned above i.e., :

5 hours ago, andres said:

Allah collected from hard, soft, sweet and sour earth, clay which He dripped in water till it got pure, and kneaded it with moisture till it became gluey. From it He carved an image with curves, joints, limbs and segments. He solidified it till it dried up for a fixed time and a known duration."

 

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2 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

What is mentioned above in the sermon of Imam Ali (asws), did involve evolution as Allah (s.w.t) never said "Be" (Kun) for all those steps mentioned above i.e., :

 

What difference does is make if Allah did or did not say "Be"?  I dont understand. 

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On 5/4/2018 at 4:19 PM, Salsabeel said:

While I think it means earth. Why? Because of what has been said by Prophet Noah in his dua "alal-ardh" which means upon Earth.

Allah (s.w.t) has introduced Himself as Creator of "Assamawate wal ardh". Does it means land or ground here?

Now lets see the verses I want to present before you in support of my point of view:

وَيَعْلَمُ مَا فِي الْبَرِّ وَالْبَحْرِ وَمَا تَسْقُطُ مِن وَرَقَةٍ إِلاَّ يَعْلَمُهَا وَلاَ حَبَّةٍ فِي ظُلُمَاتِ الأَرْضِ وَلاَ رَطْبٍ وَلاَ يَابِسٍ إِلاَّ فِي كِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ

6:59

Here "Al-barra" means ground or land while " fee Zulumaat ul Ardh" means in darkness of the earth.

Surah Al-Anaam, Verse 59:
وَعِندَهُ مَفَاتِحُ الْغَيْبِ لَا يَعْلَمُهَا إِلَّا هُوَ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا فِي الْبَرِّ وَالْبَحْرِ وَمَا تَسْقُطُ مِن وَرَقَةٍ إِلَّا يَعْلَمُهَا وَلَا حَبَّةٍ فِي ظُلُمَاتِ الْأَرْضِ وَلَا رَطْبٍ وَلَا يَابِسٍ إِلَّا فِي كِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ

And with Him are the keys of the unseen treasures-- none knows them but He; and He knows what is in the land and the sea, and there falls not a leaf but He knows it, nor a grain in the darkness of the earth, nor anything green nor dry but (it is all) in a clear book.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Ar-Rad, Verse 4:
وَفِي الْأَرْضِ قِطَعٌ مُّتَجَاوِرَاتٌ وَجَنَّاتٌ مِّنْ أَعْنَابٍ وَزَرْعٌ وَنَخِيلٌ صِنْوَانٌ وَغَيْرُ صِنْوَانٍ يُسْقَىٰ بِمَاءٍ وَاحِدٍ وَنُفَضِّلُ بَعْضَهَا عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ فِي الْأُكُلِ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

And in the earth there are tracts side by side and gardens of grapes and corn and palm trees having one root and (others) having distinct roots-- they are watered with one water, and We make some of them excel others in fruit; most surely there are signs in this for a people who understand.
(English - Shakir)

Surah At-Talaq, Verse 12:
اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا

Allah is He Who created seven heavens, and of the earth the like of them; the decree continues to descend among them, that you may know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah indeed encompasses all things in (His) knowledge.
(English - Shakir)

 

When Nuh (a) performed the Dua it's very normal to say that. I don't think a prophet would pray to God to "Allah please destroy pagans of Sumeria but keep the Greek pagans".

Other than that we have tons of proofs of floods occurring in Mesopotamia since the Euphrates and the Tigris were known for not being able to be expected.

Edited by M.IB

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