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In the Name of God بسم الله

Is the soul of man Godly?

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3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

:hahaha: Now, I am thinking you are a troll bro. 

Mr .The above statement is of Imam Khomeini ra. 

OK. Just read following hadith of Imam jafar safiq as. 

Shaykh Saduq in his book, at-Tawhid has quoted a report saying that one day Abu Basir asked Imam Ja'far Sadiq if it was possible to see Allah on the Day of Resurrection. He asked so because the Asha'irah, the followers of the Sunni Imam Abul Hasan Ash'ari believe that all people will see Allah on the Day of Resurrection and in the hereafter, which is obviously not possible without incarnation. Allah is far above what these wrong-doers say.

The Imam said: "It is possible to see Allah even in this world as you saw Him here just now." Abu Basir said: "Son of the Prophet, allow me to relate this event to others." The Imam did not allow him to do so and said: "Don't relate it to others; otherwise they will not be able to comprehend the truth and will go astray for no reason."

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How can something created by the God-of-Noah. Allah-s.w.t. be "part" of Allah-s.w.t. ? lf l create a chair or recipe or whatever, is it "part of me" ?

Allah is the Almighty. Verily we cannot comprehend God with our senses nor think of Him or imagine Him. Our Lord is one and not more than one. In Islam the Soul is not godly, it is lowly. Our Soul is

I think even a a child in Day Care should be knowing that God created us.  Did you honestly think I don't know that? When I speak of reality I am speaking of reality plain and simple.  Not this o

1 minute ago, islam25 said:

Shaykh Saduq in his book, at-Tawhid has quoted a report saying that one day Abu Basir asked Imam Ja'far Sadiq if it was possible to see Allah on the Day of Resurrection. He asked so because the Asha'irah, the followers of the Sunni Imam Abul Hasan Ash'ari believe that all people will see Allah on the Day of Resurrection and in the hereafter, which is obviously not possible without incarnation. Allah is far above what these wrong-doers say.

The Imam said: "It is possible to see Allah even in this world as you saw Him here just now." Abu Basir said: "Son of the Prophet, allow me to relate this event to others." The Imam did not allow him to do so and said: "Don't relate it to others; otherwise they will not be able to comprehend the truth and will go astray for no reason."

Please share me the page number and link of Al-Tawhid :) 

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7 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Please share me the page number and link of Al-Tawhid :) 

Now this is from Mohhamad Hussain Tabatbaie the one who has written tafsir of Al Quran called Al Mizaan highest in shia world. 

"In the first world he attains to the stage of passing away, for he realizes that he is not the source of any of his doings and that everything is from Allah. Thus he annihilates the traces of his actions.

In the second world he as the result of attributive manifestation perceives that knowledge, power and all such qualities exclusively belong to Allah. Thus he effaces the signs of his own attributes.

In the third world the spiritual traveler receives the manifestation of Divine names and perceives that Allah alone is the knower, the doer etc. Thus he effaces the signs of his names and designations also.

In the fourth world he views the manifestation of the glory of Divine Essence. As a result he entirely loses his entity and feels that there exists nothing but Allah."

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3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Now this is from Mohhamad Hussain Tabatbaie the one who has written tafsir of Al Quran called Al Mizaan highest in shia world. 

First thing first, please provide the citation of above thing which you referred to Imam Jafair al Sadiq a.s because if you do not provide me reference, I would think you have lied upon him. I will come to Ayotullah Tabatabai later on. 

Do you have the reference of above thing which you attributed to Imam Jafar al Sadiq a.s or you have lied upon him ?

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2 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

First thing first, please provide the citation of above thing which you referred to Imam Jafair al Sadiq a.s because if you do not provide me reference, I would think you have lied upon him. I will come to Ayotullah Tabatabai later on. 

Do you have the reference of above thing which you attributed to Imam Jafar al Sadiq a.s or you have lied upon him ?

Why should  I lie. 

The hadith i mentioned is from paragraph written by MOHHAMAD Hussain Tabatbaie. I donot belive he will lie. Yes he has not given reference. 

I will try forward whole page so that you may cross check. 

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4 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Show me reference from Ayotullah Tabatabi's book that he cited such Hadith from Imam Jafar al Sadiq a.s and then I will proceed. :) 

The Mohhamad Hussain Tabatbaie has written it in chapter of "Rules for Attaining Spritual Perfection ".Where in 20 the rule he mentioned this Hadith. 

Just read it. 

20) Secrecy

It is one of the most important points to be observed by a spiritual traveler. The great gnostics have been very particular about it and have laid great stress on it. They advised their pupils to keep their spiritual exercises as well as their visions etc. secret.

If simulation (taqiyya) is not possible, equivocation (tawriyah) must be resorted to. If necessary spiritual exercises may he abandoned for some time to maintain secrecy. "Try to fulfill your needs by maintaining secrecy."

At the time of sufferings and calamities simulation and secrecy make the things easier. If the spiritual traveler faces any hardships, he should go forward patiently.

Seek help in patience and prayers; truly it is hard except for the humble-minded. (Surah al-Baqarah, 2:45)

In this verse the word salat (prayers) has been used in its literal sense, that is attention to Allah. On this basis it may be inferred from this verse that patience in the remembrance of Allah makes the hardships less burdensome and paves the way to success.

That is why it is often observed that the people who become extremely restless when their small finger is cut, do not worry in the least about losing their limbs and organs in the battlefield. According to this general rule the Imams have laid great stress on secrecy, and even have considered abandoning simulation a grave sin.

Shaykh Saduq in his book, at-Tawhid has quoted a report saying that one day Abu Basir asked Imam Ja'far Sadiq if it was possible to see Allah on the Day of Resurrection. He asked so because the Asha'irah, the followers of the Sunni Imam Abul Hasan Ash'ari believe that all people will see Allah on the Day of Resurrection and in the hereafter, which is obviously not possible without incarnation. Allah is far above what these wrong-doers say.

The Imam said: "It is possible to see Allah even in this world as you saw Him here just now." Abu Basir said: "Son of the Prophet, allow me to relate this event to others." The Imam did not allow him to do so and said: "Don't relate it to others; otherwise they will not be able to comprehend the truth and will go astray for no reason."

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Just now, Sindbad05 said:

Yes, you should because I want to confirm about serious topics so that in future, I may not ask any other for such references. 

I am highly meticulous in writing things. 

I always confirm the fact twice before forwarding it.

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Just now, islam25 said:

I am highly meticulous in writing things. 

I always confirm the fact twice before forwarding it.

May be true but it is also my duty to confirm if Ayotullah has said so or these are words of someone other. For it may happen that someone cite it in future in the name of other and I may have knowledge. As Imam Ali a.s says: "Seeing is believing, hearing is not always truth". 

9 minutes ago, islam25 said:

If simulation (taqiyya) is not possible, equivocation (tawriyah) must be resorted to. If necessary spiritual exercises may he abandoned for some time to maintain secrecy. "Try to fulfill your needs by maintaining secrecy."

The Hadith of Imam Jafar al Sadiq a.s is covered and it does not mean literally. Imam Ali a.s says: "Eyes cannot see him but cannot deny his existence and the heart which perceives him cannot see him". 

Also, Imam Ali a.s was asked if he a.s has seen Allah. Imam Ali a.s said: "Do you think that I believe in something which I did not see". 

There are three eyes: Two physical and one eye of intelligence.....Every thing in the world is evidence of presence of God. Once Prophet Moses a.s said: "Ya Allah, are you always awake". Allah AWJ asked him to place two pots in his hands and when he was too tired, he just fraction of second closed his eyes and pots fell down and were broken. Allah said: "O! Moses, Had I slept for this much, how could this whole complex system would stay in its place". The control of the things is due to the presence of God and now look around you and tell me why are pillars holding on to ground ? It is not because they have such properties but because God is holding them with his power. 

I am sure you would have seen God too like Hazrat Abu Baseer saw and I see each day. 

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

May be true but it is also my duty to confirm if Ayotullah has said so or these are words of someone other. For it may happen that someone cite it in future in the name of other and I may have knowledge. As Imam Ali a.s says: "Seeing is believing, hearing is not always truth". 

The Hadith of Imam Jafar al Sadiq a.s is covered and it does not mean literally. Imam Ali a.s says: "Eyes cannot see him but cannot deny his existence and the heart which perceives him cannot see him". 

Also, Imam Ali a.s was asked if he a.s has seen Allah. Imam Ali a.s said: "Do you think that I believe in something which I did not see". 

There are three eyes: Two physical and one eye of intelligence.....Every thing in the world is evidence of presence of God. Once Prophet Moses a.s said: "Ya Allah, are you always awake". Allah AWJ asked him to place two pots in his hands and when he was too tired, he just fraction of second closed his eyes and pots fell down and were broken. Allah said: "O! Moses, Had I slept for this much, how could this whole complex system would stay in its place". The control of the things is due to the presence of God and now look around you and tell me why are pillars holding on to ground ? It is not because they have such properties but because God is holding them with his power. 

I am sure you would have seen God too like Hazrat Abu Baseer saw and I see each day. 

Mr. You all right to cross-check it.

You have right to suspect it and so. Just go through other books on the subjects  by other Mujtahids and cross check it.

The above language can't be easilyunderstood for beginners. 

I have listened lectures over last five years of scholars who tried to simplfy it.

It is not single book their other books on subject. So you can go through it. So gradually you will come to know what is reality. And it all have bases from quran and hadith. 

You just read it today. You gradually go through the book with patience. Cross check with other scholars of the field. Then you will come to know. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

Can you please give the reference or the Arabic text of the narration?

I want to know if debating about God is totally forbiden. If it is so, then how can you prove Him for an atheist (I mean without debating or arguing)?

I will get the hadiths Insha Allah. It is not forbidden. But the problem is people killing each other about this issue, like Salafis. People forgot that Theology is human articulation of what they comprehend.

I also wanna leave here that there's a hadith that says that Allah sent one mercy to the world and kept 99 mercies with Him to the day of Judgement. So maybe this is where the Jew is coming from but the soul is not Godly in the sense of being part of Allah, is still a creation.

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46 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr. You all right to cross-check it.

You have right to suspect it and so. Just go through other books on the subjects  by other Mujtahids and cross check it.

The above language can't be easilyunderstood for beginners. 

I have listened lectures over last five years of scholars who tried to simplfy it.

It is not single book their other books on subject. So you can go through it. So gradually you will come to know what is reality. And it all have bases from quran and hadith. 

You just read it today. You gradually go through the book with patience. Cross check with other scholars of the field. Then you will come to know. 

 

 

:hahaha: Ok sir. 

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17 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

I will get the hadiths Insha Allah. It is not forbidden. But the problem is people killing each other about this issue, like Salafis. People forgot that Theology is human articulation of what they comprehend.

I also wanna leave here that there's a hadith that says that Allah sent one mercy to the world and kept 99 mercies with Him to the day of Judgement. So maybe this is where the Jew is coming from but the soul is not Godly in the sense of being part of Allah, is still a creation.

Debating about God is not forbidden, if it were Prophet PBUHHP and Imams would not have spoken about Marifah of Allah and explained to people. Religion is actually for helping to recognize Allah AWJ. 

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Just now, islam25 said:

What you want to convey by sending laughing simly. If you intend to mock me then OK. 

I am sorry to have chat with you .

Bro. Do not make it for yourself as if you are learning anything impossible. Although I know that Ayotullahs have deeper knowledge but whatever they say has meaning which is taught us in Islam by Ahlebait a.s. No matter, how many lectures we read, the actual law is that which is said in Quran: "No change can there be in the words of Allah". So, even if you learn deeper science basics is same that creator and creation are different things and you may as per your choice believe like polytheistic sufis or Asharites but Ahlebait a.s did not teach whatever you have said earlier about "in" theory. 

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13 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Debating about God is not forbidden, if it were Prophet PBUHHP and Imams would not have spoken about Marifah of Allah and explained to people. Religion is actually for helping to recognize Allah AWJ. 

I didn't said it was. I just quoted a hadith speaking that this nation will be destroyed when they start debating about God (from among themselves). This should be truth with all the takfeerism lately

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1 minute ago, SunniBrother said:

I didn't said it was. I just quoted a hadith speaking that this nation will be destroyed when they start debating about God (from among themselves). This should be truth with all the takfeerism lately

The tradition, thus, implies towards innovation and stops from innovation and does not stop to talk about God as we were taught by Ahlebait a.s.

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@SunniBrother However, I highly doubt such tradition exists. I have read a Hadith which speaks about that when people start bringing their thoughts into religion, it will cause great disaster among Muslims and this is true. 

It was only Imam Ghazali who stopped to talk about Mathematics and Philosophy and due to which we Muslims lagged behind. So, it was not from prophet PBUHHP bro but Imam Ghazali. 

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

@SunniBrother However, I highly doubt such tradition exists. I have read a Hadith which speaks about that when people start bringing their thoughts into religion, it will cause great disaster among Muslims and this is true. 

It was only Imam Ghazali who stopped to talk about Mathematics and Philosophy and due to which we Muslims lagged behind. So, it was not from prophet PBUHHP bro but Imam Ghazali. 

https://en.qantara.de/content/the-decline-of-islamic-scientific-thought-dont-blame-it-on-al-ghazali

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

The tradition, thus, implies towards innovation and stops from innovation and does not stop to talk about God as we were taught by Ahlebait a.s.

What is your understanding of Bida? Those who goes agaisnt the Twelver shias are bidati? Maybe Imam Jafar (as) was wrong to teach other people including Abu Hanifa (r.a) who bringed their "filthy brain" on religion? Maybe Imam Jafar (as) was also wrong in bringing his "filthy brain" and own thoughts into religion?

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In a remarkable intellectual shift, he concluded that falsafa (which literally means philosophy but included logic, mathematics and physics) was incompatible with Islam.

After writing his book, The Incoherence of Philosophers, Algazel as he was known in medieval Europe, is said to have "stabbed falsafa in such a manner that it could not rise again in the Muslim world". Thanks to his unparalleled mastery of falsafa and Islamic theology, he injected repugnance among Muslims for science that ultimately led to its decline and, in the process, the decline of Islamic civilisation.

Or at least, this is what academics and Orientalists have argued for over a century. I believe this assessment is misinformed.

Cherchez Nizam al-Mulk

Academics are correct in pinpointing the exact period in which Muslims began turning away from scientific innovation – the 11th century – but they have identified the wrong person. Abu Ali al-Hassan al-Tusi (1018–1092), better known as Nizam al-Mulk, the grand vizier of the Seljuq dynasty, was in fact the driving force.

Nizam al-Mulk had created a system of education known as "Nizamiyah" that focused on religious studies at the expense of independent inquiry. For the first time in Islamic history, religious studies became institutionalised and religious studies were seen as a more lucrative career path. Previously, sciences and Islamic law were intertwined.

 

Nizam al-Mulk bust in Mashhad, Iran (photo: Juybari/Wikipedia)
The "true culprit": Nizam Al Mulk, vizier of the Seljuq Empire, had created a system of education known as "Nizamiyah" that focused on religious studies at the expense of independent inquiry

Not only did Nizamiyah colleges focus on religion but they also adopted a narrow Sunni interpretation of Islamic jurisprudence as the source of curricula: the Shafi'i school. The choice was not arbitrary. The Shafi'i school focused on the fundamentalist principles of Sharia and disdained the rationalist approach that had gained momentum during the reigns of Damascus-based Umayyad dynasty and the Baghdad-based Abbasid dynasty.

Blaming that Tusi was first to establish Nizamiya would be exaggeration because before that there were many religious Madrasahs and Seminaries in whole of the Muslim world. The above confession is sufficient which is also evident from the Muslims of sub-continent who hated to study foreign subjects because most of development in science in later centuries were done by English people and, therefore, Science was thought of as "English discipline".

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1 hour ago, SunniBrother said:

What is your understanding of Bida? Those who goes agaisnt the Twelver shias are bidati? Maybe Imam Jafar (as) was wrong to teach other people including Abu Hanifa (r.a) who bringed their "filthy brain" on religion? Maybe Imam Jafar (as) was also wrong in bringing his "filthy brain" and own thoughts into religion?

Teaching is not bad thing. But ignoring what is taught is bad thing. Allah AWJ taught us to be on Islam but if we deviate from Islam, you could not blame God bro because He AWJ has already taught you what is the right way. 

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12 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Teaching is not bad thing. But ignoring what is taught is bad thing. Allah AWJ taught us to be on Islam but if we deviate from Islam, you could not blame God bro because He AWJ has already taught you what is the right way. 

Where i am blaming God? Allah didn't taught me, why would He send Prophets if He himself can teach? Allah taught the Prophets who Taught humanity about religion, if the so called "scholars" distorted the teachings of the prophets and then passed this incorrect information that's not on me nor the prophets nor Allah. Please go make tawba now because you just committed Kufr

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Al Ghazali didn't refuted philosophy in general. He criticized stupid comments like yours an criticized people using Falsafa to insert incorrect ideas into the religion like people using philosophy to commit kufr like "Hell is a metaphor, I am the Haqq" and all that heretic nonsense.

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