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wolverine

Las Vegas shooting

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The killer was on the 32nd floor of the hotel, shooting at people in the outdoor concert. From newsweek.com

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5:03 a.m. ET: Police have now confirmed that the suspected gunman was killed on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel. 

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9 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Who was behind it. Islamic terrorist or mentally unstable? 

BBC 0500EDT

The shooter was a local. No name released yet,

The police are searching for a  Marilou Danley (l think that's the last name) who a BBC reporter said they found the same name for a resident of Reno.

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I always wonder how people can decide that they want to do things like this. What in the world goes through their minds? 

Duas for recovery of the injured and traumatized, and comfort to the families of those killed. 

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4 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Who was behind it. Islamic terrorist or mentally unstable? 

The two categories are not mutually exclusive. Likely a big overlap.

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http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-02/las-vegas-shooting-mandalay-bay-hotel-gunman-stephen-paddock/9008372?pfmredir=sm

'Police said Paddock did not have any militant links, but the Islamic State group has claimed responsibility for the attack via its Amaq propaganda arm, saying the shooter "converted to Islam months ago". '

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4 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Who was behind it. Islamic terrorist or mentally unstable? 

If the shooter was white/gay/atheist then poor mentally unstable person deserving our sympathies; If black/brown/Muslim then heartless terrorist.

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13 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

'Police said Paddock did not have any militant links, but the Islamic State group has claimed responsibility for the attack via its Amaq propaganda arm, saying the shooter "converted to Islam months ago".

It could be ISIS attack but remember they will claim anything. 

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We need to stop this 'mentally unstable label'. This guy clearly had a normal brain which functioned, to mischievously plot an attack. Such labels don't give us a solution.

Many say that 'extremist Salafi Muslims' kill because of their messed up ideology, well the same goes to this sick grandpa.

Take away religion, you still have these sickos who have no belief in God and accountability. This is their messed up ideology which causes them to do these acts. Extremist Muslims wanna do horrible acts and go to Jannah while these kind of people wanna do these acts and go nowhere.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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True, it does not meet the " definition" of terrorism at present ( unless you believe ISIS), but the thought that someone just randomly snapped for no apparently known reason, got 10 rifles up into a hotel room, and started spraying automatic gunfire into a crowd of people doesn't make me feel very comforted either.

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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3 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

This guy clearly had a normal brain which functioned, to mischievously plot an attack. Such labels don't give us a solution.

Mischievously plotting makes the shooter sound like he was pulling a prank. The old man clearly did not have a normal brain, waking up and deciding to kill people is not normal at all, Ali. 

Such labels were never meant to give solutions but some semblance of closure.

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Originally I thought maybe the old guy was tired of the loud music outside his hotel and just snapped, but having multiple guns in his room meant that this terror attack was premeditated. 

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^ It was definitely premeditated. That's what's odd about it coming  from someone with, according to his brother, NO political,religious,or any other affiliation. 

He supposedly liked to go to Las Vegas to have fun and gamble, so doubt the noise would have bothered him much. ( Personally I would rather be dragged across a stony cactus -strewn desert by rabid wild horses than ever spend another night  in Vegas,but I have had to on rare occasions while traveling with others on the way to  meetings and gatherings in the region.)

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Probably [edit], perhaps no friends, no family. No career driven goals. No Belief in God, no faith. Perhaps no one to love, no one to show him love.

he wanted to end his life, and simply found a way to do so that made the news.

Edited by Hameedeh
Inappropriate words removed.

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5 hours ago, iCambrian said:

Probably [edit], perhaps no friends, no family. No career driven goals. No Belief in God, no faith. Perhaps no one to love, no one to show him love.

he wanted to end his life, and simply found a way to do so that made the news.

Not quite.  He is now reported (by his brother) to be a retired accountant who was a multi-millionaire property investor.  Liked gambling and taking vacations with his girlfriend.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2017/10/02/las-vegas-gunman-shooting-country/

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2 minutes ago, forte said:

Not quite.  He is now reported (by his brother) to be a retired accountant who was a multi-millionaire property investor.  Liked gambling and taking vacations with his girlfriend.

Probably lived a superficial life drenched in materialism, no real meaning to anything, just deluding himself that his possessions meant he was happy.

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Too early to speculate on Paddock's behavior.

There are two things l'd like to know:

1] How did he get all these weapons and ammunition in the hotel?

2] Will the autopsy show he had a stroke(s) or his toxicology report shows mentally destabilizing build-up of chemicals (like from kidney infections). [My father's behavior and thinking changed and changed again after each of his strokes.]

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41 minutes ago, forte said:

Not quite.  He is now reported (by his brother) to be a retired accountant who was a multi-millionaire property investor.  Liked gambling and taking vacations with his girlfriend.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2017/10/02/las-vegas-gunman-shooting-country/

Looks like he wasnt a religious person. Retired, without career driven goals. Gambling with a girlfriend at 64. No wife, no kids. Perhaps no one to love, or to be loved by (except maybe his grandmother who he was not there for during the hurricane).

Unfortunately money cannot buy love. Looks like a textbook example of a sinful life.

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59 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Too early to speculate on Paddock's behavior.

There are two things l'd like to know:

1] How did he get all these weapons and ammunition in the hotel?

2] Will the autopsy show he had a stroke(s) or his toxicology report shows mentally destabilizing build-up of chemicals (like from kidney infections). [My father's behavior and thinking changed and changed again after each of his strokes.]

Possibility that he had a brain tumor and was hallucinating? 

Death toll is now 58 people. 

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1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

Too early to speculate on Paddock's behavior.

There are two things l'd like to know:

1] How did he get all these weapons and ammunition in the hotel?

2] Will the autopsy show he had a stroke(s) or his toxicology report shows mentally destabilizing build-up of chemicals (like from kidney infections). [My father's behavior and thinking changed and changed again after each of his strokes.]

You are right in that many things can impact our brain, especially we age.  He has no previous on-going history of violent behaviour or interest in guns.

When he was a child, his father was an armed robber who had a violent criminal life and had been diagnosed as a "psychopath".  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooter-dad-10-most-wanted-list/724116001/  

My theory is genetics + environment as a child + aging = instability.  No matter how much you try and distance yourself from your heritage and upbringing, even with schooling and accomplishments, you are always impacted to some degree by your past. This may increase as you age and you find you cannot distract yourself as much as you can when you are younger and more active in your life.  Anyway, he obviously was not doing well mentally. 

Edited by forte

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7 hours ago, notme said:

Anyone who would kill random strangers or entire groups of people is obviously deranged. 

Terrorism is defined as a politically motivated attack on non-military target. If we don't know the shooter's motivation, we can't say whether it's terrorism or not. 

There is no universal agreement on the definition of terrorism. What your saying above is gorge bushes definition and it is solely used when the attacker had any association with the religion of Islam in any shape or form.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world defines terrorism as an act of spreading fear and death targeting civilians in particular.

I'd say some guy standing on a balcony with a automatic rifle and spraying it into crowds of people bellow is pretty terrorizing. 

Now let me ask you something, if the killer had been arab, looked arab and had a typical arab name with a bunch of "al-" in between. Would anyone had called it anything other than terrorism?

Even if it was later found that the guy was not religious at all or called himself muslim or anything?

I remember the terror attack in Norway when that derranged white guy shot a bunch of kids, I remember before they found out who he was, how they were calling it a terror attack by muslim and then when they found out he is white they called him a extremist convert and then when they found out his a christian extremist they started to call him a "lone wolf" "crazy guy" "socially handicapped" "an attack" instead of terror attack. The media went completely silent on his extremist ideology because it didnt fit the model of what, rupert murdoch, his likes and the mainstream news wants to project and he went from being a terrorist to being a crazy lonely guy who never fit in and had trouble with girls, because he didnt follow george bushes definition of a terrorist.

Latest example:

What happened in charlottesville: a man "politically motivated" drives into a bunch of people with his car, and they call it an attack, "The charlottesville attack",  or at best, an attack by a white supremacists. This is not terrorism?

Same thing happens in France, guy says his a muslim and looks arab, now its terrorism?

Please, if we muslims cant even be unbiased in our definition of terrorism, then how can we complain when they call us all terrorists?

CVTK-3HWoAAHcLY.jpg

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@IbnSina

Not necessarily.

As for Charlottesville,

Apparently there is no such charge as domestic terrorism (only international terrorism) and the term is used only as a descriptor.  http://www.npr.org/2017/08/14/543462676/why-the-govt-cant-bring-terrorism-charges-in-charlottesville

They guy was charged with a hate crime in addition to all the other charges against him so he will probably be put away for years numbering in the triple digits.

As for an Arab extremist,

This guy http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/terrorism-charges-edmonton-attacks-1.4316450  has an Arab name (he is a migrant claiming refugee status from Somalia) and had an ISIS flag in the car that he used to mow down a policeman before jumping out and stabbing him.  He also got a truck and ran over four others.  Despite his rhetoric and extremist ideology he is not being charged with terror related charges.   

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14 minutes ago, forte said:

Not necessarily.

As for Charlottesville,

Apparently there is no such charge as domestic terrorism (only international terrorism) and the term is used only as a descriptor.  http://www.npr.org/2017/08/14/543462676/why-the-govt-cant-bring-terrorism-charges-in-charlottesville

They guy was charged with a hate crime in addition to all the other charges against him so he will probably be put away for years numbering in the triple digits.

As for an Arab extremist,

This guy http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/terrorism-charges-edmonton-attacks-1.4316450  has an Arab name (he is claiming refugee status from Somalia) and had an ISIS flag in the car that he used to mow down a policeman before jumping out and stabbing him.  He also got a truck and ran over four others.  Despite his rhetoric and extremist ideology he is not being charged with terror related charges.   

I dont care what they were charged for in US court later on.

You have two ears and when you use them, what do you hear people say? When you heard the news on TV, what did they call it?

What they are in fact doing is creating a public opinion saying that muslims = terrorists and terrorists = muslims.

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15 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

I dont care what they were charged for in US court later on.

You have two ears and when you use them, what do you hear people say? When you heard the news on TV, what did they call it?

What they are in fact doing is creating a public opinion saying that muslims = terrorists and terrorists = muslims.

Lots of people have big mouths and try and influence people with their uneducated and moronic opinions.  These opinions gain power when they are repeated by others.  It is best not to repeat them.

I mentioned the Arab refugee in Edmonton, Canada as there has been a big effort from the community to understand his behaviour and the potential impact on the Somali community there.  Everyone came together in a vigil to support the community after this happened, Somali and non Somali alike... in a search for understanding and to maintain a united, safe community for all... please read ... http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/vigil-against-violence-brings-community-together-after-terror-attack  This is the kind of action that needs to be repeated.

Edited by forte

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