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Meesum_Mtl

Virtual Currencies

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This topic is informational only. No advertisements or recommendations for specific dealers or brokers.

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On 9/15/2017 at 12:34 PM, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

But it was 4.600$ 15 days ago so whoever invested lost his money.

It was fraction of a cent in 2010 if you would have invested $100 in 2010 you would have around $140 millions. 

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On 9/15/2017 at 12:28 PM, Ron_Burgundy said:

btc is going up. wow

Yea, I specifically wanted to target ripple because many European banking system are trying to implement it to transfer money at a lower cost. Might wait for bitcoin to ripple rates hit the positive while BTC is up before I make the switch.

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On 9/15/2017 at 1:04 PM, Meesum_Mtl said:

Yea, I specifically wanted to target ripple because many European banking system are trying to implement it to transfer money at a lower cost. Might wait for bitcoin to ripple rates hit the positive while BTC is up before I make the switch.

XRP is for long time investment. Invest and forget about it for next 10 years. Don't make crazy investment just put like 2gs.  

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On 9/15/2017 at 12:47 PM, Ron_Burgundy said:

It was fraction of a cent in 2010 if you would have invested $100 in 2010 you would have around $140 millions. 

Yeah so I've heard. 

https://coinmarketcap.com/ 

Then which of these projects you think its better to invest in?

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ETH is strong has a lot of potention but I would like to invest in ripple because its less than quarter and market cap is $7,057,337,474. 

So you could make a lot of money. Also, ripple have some big banks as a customer so it looks kinda strong. But in the end it all about luck i guess. 

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Should really look into investing in one of these things, if you're lucky you may never have to work again, or in my case, I would work for myself without worrying about the bills to be paid, I would travel around the world, do volunteer work, write articles/blogs, work on my own projects at my own pace without worrying about deadlines etc.

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Using bit coin in evil way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8t2rN7cnGA

Edited by Hameedeh
Video was reduced in size to a link.

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Bitcoin Shari'a:
Supreme Leader of the Grand Ayatullah Khamenei (preserves him Allah Almighty):

The Supreme Leader's Office does not comment on this issue and has not been given an oposite  or negative opinion.

In that sense, neither a decree nor a permission is permitted. Therefore, the duty of the his followers is that:

Since Bitcoin has doubts about the sanctions, entry into the deal is forbidden and should not be entered into, or they can refer to another certified Marja under a  condition, in accordance with the law of the Fa'ala'lam(the most knowledgable person) 

The Grand Ayatullah Sistani (preserves him Allah Almighty):

Supreme Marja does not allow this activity.

As a result, it is forbidden to enter into such transactions for the his followers.

The Grand Ayatullah Shabiri Zanjani (preserves him Allah Almighty):

If the credit is given against the work and is not law-abiding, it does not has religious problem.

The Great Ayatullah Makarem Shirazi (preserves him Allah Almighty):

Due to the many ambiguities Bitcoin has, dealing it has problem. 

 

https://bigwallet.ir/آیا-بیت-کوین-منظر-اسلام-حلال-است/

https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/حکم شرعی بیت کوین%3A مقام معظم رهبری حضرت آیت الله العظمی خامنه ای (حفظه الله تعالی)%3A دفتر معظم له در این زمینه اظهار نظری نداشه اند و نفیا و اثباتا نظری داده نشده است. بدین معنا که نه حکم به حرمت میدهند و نه اجازه ی فعالیت را میدهند. لذا وظیفه مقلدین معظم له این است که%3A از آنجا که بیت کوین، شبهه تحریمیه دارد، ورود به این معامله برای مقلدین معظم له حرام بوده و نباید وارد شوند یا میتوانند با رعایت الاعلم فالاعلم به مجتهد جامع الشرایط دیگری رجوع نمایند. حضرت آیت الله العظمی سیستانی (حفظه الله تعالی)%3A معظم له، فعالیّت مذکور را اجازه نمی دهند. در نتیجه برای مقلدین معظم له ورود به این گونه معاملات حرام می باشد. حضرت آیت الله العظمی شبیری زنجانی(حفظه الله تعالی)%3A اگر اعتبار دریافتی ، در مقابل کار حلال داده شود و خلاف قانون نباشد، اشکال شرعی ندارد. حضرت آیت الله العظمی مکارم شیرازی (حفظه الله تعالی)%3A با توجه به ابهامات زیادی که بیت کوین دارد معامله آن اشکال دارد.

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On 12/19/2017 at 2:44 AM, kirtc said:

I think its safe to say no one can predict bitcoin except the people at the top playing with it.

it really seems like gambling to me

which valuta can be predicted ?  Even the top doesn't really know what is going to happen i believe.

So according to brother Ashvazdanghe , followers of Sayed Al-Sistani ( May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى prolong his life ) are not allowed to buy (and sell) bitcoin ?
Can we be sure that this is actually his ruling ? 

And are they only speaking about bitcoin or all cryptocurrencies ? I am pretty sure you are allowed to buy and sell US Dollar for example  to make a profit, isn't it ?

----

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On 12/19/2017 at 3:21 AM, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

which valuta can be predicted ?  Even the top doesn't really know what is going to happen i believe.

So according to brother Ashvazdanghe , followers of Sayed Al-Sistani ( May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى prolong his life ) are not allowed to buy (and sell) bitcoin ?
Can we be sure that this is actually his ruling ? 

And are they only speaking about bitcoin or all cryptocurrencies ? I am pretty sure you are allowed to buy and sell US Dollar for example  to make a profit, isn't it ?

----

I dont know about the ruling. But it feels like gambling to me so personally I wouldn't do it

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On 12/17/2017 at 10:46 PM, hasanhh said:

From 07Dec17    $52 million of Bitcoin disappeared in Slovenia

See: "Former Botmaster, 'Darkode' Founder is CTO of Hacked Bitcoin Mining Firm 'NiceHash' "

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-12-19/multi-stage-cyber-attacks-net-north-korea-millions-in-virtual-currencies-researchers 

l doubt this and other recent assertions about the DPRK's cyber activities. Just a year and two ago, the US was saying North Korea had maybe only 6 computers connected to the lnternet.   Sheeesh !  Another we-want-to-go-to-war line by Uncle Sam.  :angry:

Like the DPRK can break through the block-chain algorithm when no other hacker group in the World can.  :hahaha:

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I found this answer to my question:

Source

Quote

Some currencies, like gold, have value because they are useful as a commodity. Government fiat currencies, like the U.S. dollar, have value because governments grant them legal tender status and only accept taxes through them.

Why Do People Value Bitcoins?

Bitcoins do not have value as a physical commodity like gold and are not widely accepted as legal tender like dollars. Rather, Bitcoin appears to have value for the following reasons:

It is popular. In short, people accept and trade in Bitcoin because other people accept and trade in Bitcoin. It is recognized and accepted as a currency by many.

So as far as I can tell, it's basically an elaborate scheme to sell something of no value. Like US dollars, but worse. 

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On 12/19/2017 at 10:27 AM, notme said:

I found this answer to my question:

Source

So as far as I can tell, it's basically an elaborate scheme to sell something of no value. Like US dollars, but worse. 

But I read that Venezuela is coming with Petro , on Presstv.com , and Venezuela has said they will use  what you called physical commodity. So if the ruling of Sayed Al Sistani , and others, regarding bitcoin is true then  it could be different for other cryptocurrencies.
----------------------
I hope someone can answer (some of) my question above.

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On 12/19/2017 at 2:21 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

The Grand Ayatullah Sistani (preserves him Allah Almighty):

Supreme Marja does not allow this activity.

As a result, it is forbidden to enter into such transactions for the his followers.

Where has he mentioned this. Please provide references when you are referring to something being forbidden or not forbidden preferably directly from his website.

22 hours ago, notme said:

I don't understand. What is the value of Bitcoin based on? As far as I can tell, it's just a concept, not based on any actual physical material of value. Is my perception accurate? 

You are right, it is an asset with no physical value. Stocks have dividends, Bonds have coupons but bitcoins value are solely based on the fact that people believe the price will rise. When people buy more than what can be produced (amount people can mine) & with speculation the price quickly shoots up. It's like the Tulip Mania in 1934.

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http://sraj.ir/fa/index.php/node/1205-2017-06-07-05-56-23

[2] استفتاء شفاهی از نجف اشرف / بحث مطرح شده در جلسه هم اندیشی در دفتر معظم له با حضور نمایندگان ویژه ایشان و مجتهدین معظم (حفظهم الله تعالی)

[2] Oral Suggestion from Najaf Ashraf / discussed at a joint meeting in the Supreme Maraja Office with the presence of his Special Representatives and the Great Mujtahedin (preserve them Allah Almighty)

http://www.iribnews.ir/fa/news/1912392/بررسی-مباحث-فقهی-بیت-کوین2

Edited by Hameedeh
[Mod Note: The dark background on fonts may be removed by a Moderator.]

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On 12/20/2017 at 9:18 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

[2] Oral Suggestion from Najaf Ashraf / discussed at a joint meeting in the Supreme Maraja Office with the presence of his Special Representatives and the Great Mujtahedin (preserve them Allah Almighty)

Thank you for the reference but I will email his office directly and inquire about the issue as I do not understand Farsi/Arabic (when I get an answer I will post it here).

Are you aware of why they would be impermissible?

Edited by Hameedeh
Dark background fonts were removed in the quote.

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On 12/19/2017 at 10:27 AM, notme said:

I found this answer to my question:

Source

So as far as I can tell, it's basically an elaborate scheme to sell something of no value. Like US dollars, but worse. 

Is it a bad option for people living in Venezuela, where the currency keeps losing value and savings can become worthless?

I think Bitcoin is a work of genius. If you study it technically, you will see that it is a very impressive thing. It can take a long time to appreciate it, and even some famous software experts said it took them months to understand it.

Why should Bitcoin (or things like it) have value? Because it's scarce and has utility:

  • The supply is limited.
  • Doesn't take up much space unlike Gold.
  • Almost instant transactions.
  • It is virtually impossible to fabricate a fake Bitcoin (unlike the USD).
  • It can be used for micro-transactions (look at the BAT project).
  • It has very cheap fees. Try sending $200 cash to a poor African labourer for 1 cent.
  • It's not controlled by banks and thus you don't need them or another third party to send it to anyone.
  • It is anonymous (well Monero is and others are working on that too).
  • Smart contracts (e.g. Ethereum, Neo etc).
  • It can be integrated into dapps (e.g. Golem tokens to buy computing power). Look at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6H4_59W1oY  and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS-BxuVRyy0
  • What happens when we get another financial crisis and there is a bank run?

Some of the points I listed above are no longer applicable to Bitcoin because the devs throttled it. But other blockchains can do those things and Bitcoin may be replaced by them.

This is the biggest thing since the Internet but most people who buy it don't understand it and only want to make money. I think in 20 years this world is going to be very different because of this technology.

https://news.bitcoin.com/iranian-government-bitcoin-use/

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On 12/21/2017 at 7:15 PM, Muhammed Ali said:

Is it a bad option for people living in Venezuela, where the currency keeps losing value and savings can become worthless?

I think Bitcoin is a work of genius. If you study it technically, you will see that it is a very impressive thing. It can take a long time to appreciate it, and even some famous software experts said it took them months to understand it.

Why should Bitcoin (or things like it) have value? Because it's scarce and has utility:

  • The supply is limited.
  • Doesn't take up much space unlike Gold.
  • Almost instant transactions.
  • It is virtually impossible to fabricate a fake Bitcoin (unlike the USD).
  • It can be used for micro-transactions (look at the BAT project).
  • It has very cheap fees. Try sending $200 cash to a poor African labourer for 1 cent.
  • It's not controlled by banks and thus you don't need them or another third party to send it to anyone.
  • It is anonymous (well Monero is and others are working on that too).
  • Smart contracts (e.g. Ethereum, Neo etc).
  • It can be integrated into dapps (e.g. Golem tokens to buy computing power). Look at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6H4_59W1oY  and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS-BxuVRyy0
  • What happens when we get another financial crisis and there is a bank run?

Some of the points I listed above are no longer applicable to Bitcoin because the devs throttled it. But other blockchains can do those things and Bitcoin may be replaced by them.

This is the biggest thing since the Internet but most people who buy it don't understand it and only want to make money. I think in 20 years this world is going to be very different because of this technology.

https://news.bitcoin.com/iranian-government-bitcoin-use/

But how about the downsides? For example stealing by hacking which already happend if I am not mistaken

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Just now, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

But how about the downsides? For example stealing by hacking which already happend if I am not mistaken

Yes this is the one major downside. Solutions are already in use (e.g. multisig and hardware wallets) and in the future I think there will be better solutions. If they don't solve it then these currencies will remain the niche of those capable enough of securing them.

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Salam,

Cryptocurrencies are at least better than fiat currencies, such as dollar, because the latter are essentially digital money too nowadays and the problem with the fiat money is that central banks control and manipulate it so that in the long term people always lose out, as they can be easily devalued.  

Crytopcurrencies, such as bitcoins, on the other hand, are not controlled by central banks and as such cannot be manipulated.  Essentially they work because people agree to use these currencies as a form of exchange to enable the buying and seeing of goods and services.  They are, in a way, the same as fiat money, but without the middle man, i.e. the banks, who can devalue and crash currencies.  

I think one should look into it carefully to understand what it is and also to understand the risks, for example, the risk of hacking and losing one's bitcoins.

For those who do not like taking risks, I would advise that they buy other currencies, that are likely to grow.  Consider for one moment that had you bought only £10 worth of bitcoins in 2009 you would be a millionaire today.l  Do you own calculation - at on point bitcoin was worth 1p.  There are a few cryptocurrencies costing less than 1p so they are worth buying. 

But look into it carefully, bearing in mind that bitcoin and others are successful only because there is a limit to the circulation and there are enough people that agree to buy and sell using these currencies.  It is these reasons why the value of bitcoin is likely to go up to maybe £500,000 per £1 and even go as high as £2m in the future, as it is being more widely used than ever before, and there is no middle magic central bank to devalue it deliberately.

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4 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Yes this is the one major downside. Solutions are already in use (e.g. multisig and hardware wallets) and in the future I think there will be better solutions. If they don't solve it then these currencies will remain the niche of those capable enough of securing them.

I would buy and sell rather than keep forever!

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