Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
MohammadAli1993

Was YHWH one of the names of Allah SWT in the Past

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

SalamAlaykum Brothers and sisters, I hope you are well. 

I had another question that came in my mind. We have ancient texts of the Jewish Bible (Tanakh/Old Testament) that the name of the LORD was YHWH. But what about according to Islam? Was wondering if one of the names of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى was YHWH or if it's a man made name. 

Would really appreciate if a knowledgeable brother or sister can reply 

Jazakallah khair 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, MohammadAli1993 said:

SalamAlaykum Brothers and sisters, I hope you are well. 

I had another question that came in my mind. We have ancient texts of the Jewish Bible (Tanakh/Old Testament) that the name of the LORD was YHWH. But what about according to Islam? Was wondering if one of the names of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى was YHWH or if it's a man made name. 

Would really appreciate if a knowledgeable brother or sister can reply 

Jazakallah khair 

Aleikum Salam brother

It wasn't. That's the abbreviation of the name of a Canaanite god. Allah was referred as Eloh, Elah and Elohim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, MohammadAli1993 said:

SalamAlaykum Brothers and sisters, I hope you are well. 

I had another question that came in my mind. We have ancient texts of the Jewish Bible (Tanakh/Old Testament) that the name of the LORD was YHWH. But what about according to Islam? Was wondering if one of the names of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى was YHWH or if it's a man made name. 

Would really appreciate if a knowledgeable brother or sister can reply 

Jazakallah khair 

According to Exodus 6, Abraham knew God under the name "El-Shaddai". "Jehovah" seemingly being a younger name. Jews and Arabs were once the same people with the same language, so and El and Allah is probably the same name

 

2 God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD;
3

and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty (El-Shaddai) but by My name, LORD (Jehovah), I did not make Myself known to them.

(Most Bibles has this translation. The original Hebrew inserted by me in brackets)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, MohammadAli1993 said:

SalamAlaykum Brothers and sisters, I hope you are well. 

I had another question that came in my mind. We have ancient texts of the Jewish Bible (Tanakh/Old Testament) that the name of the LORD was YHWH. But what about according to Islam? Was wondering if one of the names of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى was YHWH or if it's a man made name. 

Would really appreciate if a knowledgeable brother or sister can reply 

Jazakallah khair 

No dear Brother. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, baqar said:

Do you have a reliable source for your information?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

_____

Elohim occurs frequently throughout the Torah. In some cases (e.g. Exodus 3:4, "... Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush ..."), it behaves like a singular noun in Hebrew grammar, and is then generally understood to denote the single God of Israel. In other cases, Elohim acts as an ordinary plural of the word Eloah (Exodus 20:3, "You shall have no other gods before me.").

_______

There was two groups of them. The Yawest and Elohist.

YHWH - Yahweh - Y*HW*H

 

____

Allah was referred as Eloah, Elah, Eloh, Elohim.

Eloh - Eloah - Elah - Allah

_____

While the Yahwist presented an anthropomorphic God who could walk through the Garden of Eden looking for Adam and Eve, the Elohist frequently involves angels. For example, it is the Elohist version of the tale of Jacob's ladder in which there is a ladder of angels with God at the top, leading to Jacob later dedicating the place as Beth-El (House of God), whereas in the Jahwist tale, it is a simple dream in which God is simply above the location, without the ladder or angels.

Edited by SunniBrother

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

Unless you believe in the anthropomorphic god of the salafis I wouldn't compare Allah with Yahweh. Just read what I wrote above and draw conclusions.

Yahweh and El-Shaddai are two names for the same God. Israels God exclusively. Not the Arabs, Swedes or Russians God. They had other Gods. Allah of the Quran and El of the Torah are not the same Gods, but their names have a common semitic origin. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The funny thing is how everyone here ignoring me and want to compete. The Jews and Bani Israel weren't monolithic, not even Islam is monolithic. There was also 3 groups during the time of Isa (a.s), the Sadducees, Pharisees and Essenes, 4 if you count the Samaritans. Isa (a.s) was a Essene.

There was two groups among them the Jawest and Elohists.

He asked about the name Allah is derived from Eloh, Elah, in Aramaic it was Alah and Arabic is Allah and this is from the Elohist side, not the Jawest.

As if Jews never worshipped anything besides Allah, everyone here is ignoring that they used to fall into idol worship and hence all the warning in the Qur'an.

Edited by SunniBrother

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, MohammadAli1993 said:

How do u know? Dear brother 

Verily the Holy Book of Allah reveals to us our Lord's names and YHWH is not one of them nor does our Holy Book mention that Allah revealed this name to Prophet Musa (as) when he approached the burning bush as Christians claim in their Bible. Rather Ĕlaha or Ilāh or al-ilāh. If you but knew. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

There was two groups among them the Jawest and Elohists.

As if Jews never worshipped anything besides Allah, everyone here is ignoring that they used to fall into idol worship and hence all the warning in the Qur'an.

Jahwist and Elohist refer to two unknown authors of different parts of the Torah around 500BC

??? The Bible is not afraid to tell us that Jews worshipped many Gods 3.000 years ago. Now this was long before the Quran. Old Judaism was a very different religion from Islam, and also very different from Judaism today

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The funny thing here is - Everyone believe the bible is corrupt. Then someone ask if the name Yahweh-YHWH was the name of Allah. A guy reply that it wasn't, he was called Eloh in old Hebrew. Everyone goes nuts asking sources and references because the bible cannot possible be wrong, Yahweh is Allah, no such corruption in the bible, lets confirm that Yahweh is Allah. Hahahahaha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, andres said:

Jahwist and Elohist refer to two unknown authors of different parts of the Torah around 500BC

??? The Bible is not afraid to tell us that Jews worshipped many Gods 3.000 years ago. Now this was long before the Quran. Old Judaism was a very different religion from Islam, and also very different from Judaism today

There was no Jews at the time of Ibrahim (a.s). The name Jew came from the tribe of Judah much later. Musa (a.s) wasn't from the tribe of Judah, he was from the tribe of Levi, in this sense he wasn't a Jew because the name came much later after the Babylonian conquest of the northern tribes and the only territory left was that of the kingdom of Judah. Those from the tribe of Judah that were in exile in Babylon developed what came be know as Judaism. But it doesn't end here, the Jews today are very different from back there given that they developed after the Pharisees from the time of the second temple. The Jews are offshoot of the tribe of Judah among Bani Israel, they are a oppressive tribe among them. Bani Israel were devout Muslims who worshipped the one God, Eloh, Allah. Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s) came to restore the pure Abrahamic monotheism, the Tawheed of Ibrahim (a.s), and Ibrahim (a.s) was neither Jew or Christian, but he was someone who submitted himself to the will of the Almighty God, the one and truly living God, Allah.

Edited by SunniBrother

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SunniBrother said:

There was no Jews at the time of Ibrahim (a.s). The name Jew came from the tribe of Judah much later. Musa (a.s) wasn't from the tribe of Judah, he was from the tribe of Levi, in this sense he wasn't a Jew because the name came much later after the Babylonian conquest of the northern tribes and the only territory left was that of the kingdom of Judah. Those from the tribe of Judah that were in exile in Babylon developed what came be know as Judaism. But it doesn't end here, the Jews today are very different from back there given that they developed after the Pharisees from the time of the second temple. The Jews are offshoot of the tribe of Judah among Bani Israel, they are a oppressive tribe among them. Bani Israel were devout Muslims who worshipped the one God, Eloh, Allah. Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s) came to restore the pure Abrahamic monotheism, the Tawheed of Ibrahim (a.s), and Ibrahim (a.s) was neither Jew or Christian, but he was someone who submitted himself to the will of the Almighty God, the one and truly living God, Allah.

Of course there were no Jews at the time when Abraham was supposed to have existed. No Christians or Muslims either. Back in those days all semites were polytheists. Like everywhere else on our planet. Judaism formes in the middle of the first century BC. The Torah however reveals a lot of the pre-judaism religion. But when we speak about Judaism, we also include Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses. Beyond any historical doubts mythical persons, even so they still are important tradition within Judaism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/09/2017 at 8:20 PM, AfricanShia said:

Verily the Holy Book of Allah reveals to us our Lord's names and YHWH is not one of them nor does our Holy Book mention that Allah revealed this name to Prophet Musa (as) when he approached the burning bush as Christians claim in their Bible. Rather Ĕlaha or Ilāh or al-ilāh. If you but knew. :)

Allah SWT is not limited to the names he has revealed to us in the Quran. What my point here is, is exactly what certain passages In the Bible mention in which the Quran doesn't for example. The Quran doesn't mention that Prophet Yaqoob name was changed from Yaqoob to Israel. Or Abram To Abraham. There are certain things the Bible has mention in which the Quran doesn't. I'm no trying to say that the Quran misses those points and they are crucial but was wondering about the name YHWH. If it was man made or not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/12/2017 at 10:58 PM, andres said:

??? The Bible is not afraid to tell us that Jews worshipped many Gods 3.000 years ago. Now this was long before the Quran. Old Judaism was a very different religion from Islam, and also very different from Judaism today

I am sure you talking about Israelites sons of Jacob/Israel [as].

Didn't Jews have some sort of making a prophet an angel/son of God/God ?

Edited by M.IB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Qa'im said:

I didnt receive anything

Never mind. I have read my post from wednesday a few times more,  and maybe I understand your warning. I know Muslims (and also many Christians) believe prophets like Moses and older are real persons. What I meant was that secular historians (and many Christians inkluding me) do not believe so. Sorry for having expressed me clumpsy.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, M.IB said:

I am sure you talking about Israelites sons of Jacob/Israel [as].

Didn't Jews have some sort of making a prophet an angel/son of God/God ?

The Jewish Bible (old testament) repetely talks about Israelites worshipping other Gods. From the times of Moses around 3.300 years ago til the Tora was written 2.500 years ago. Roughly speaking. It also say Abraham grew up in a polytheistic society, becoming monotheist but that was maybe 500 years before Noses.

Dont know what you mean by Jews making angels/sons of God from prophets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, M.IB said:

Isn't El a canaanite god?

Yes. You find old villages named after him. Like Betel (home of the God El). Statues of him and his wife Ashera have been found many places in Canaans land.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

God didn't write His name down for anyone. God doesn't bother to speak Hebrew, Greek, or English. Anything recorded was in a language meant for men. If we are not able to speak His name why give it? We have what the Prophets called Him.

Here's a vague summary of some of my studies, and questions, because it's still confusing. 

Jehovah is a Latinized word for starters. Through oral translation YHWH and JHVH could just be a difference in how it was received one generation to another. There were no vowels in Hebrew so make of it what you like, pronounce it how you like. Once you add a few vowels pronounce it YAHWEH or JEHOVAH, or as some pronounce it, YEHOVAH, or make up your own. Obviously you wouldn't be the first.

Elohim has a different description than Jehovah in the Hebrew. While Jehovah is described as the One True God, Elohim means a whole bunch of things. Singular, plural, possibly female...basically anything spiritual that wasn't identified. How many were identified I haven't counted, but start with the Archangels, the Lord of Hosts, The Spirit of the Lord, The Word of the Lord, it goes on. Interesting to note the differences, as well as the tasks. Of course they could all  fall under the same title one time or another. Not sure how many may go by different names, or which ones are unique, nor how Moses knew which was which.

I'm not so sure the early Bibles were "corrupted" as much as altered through years of translation. The Oral scriptures were kept in the hearts of the Prophets, taught to men, recited to the youth, until the youth found a decent way to write it down. From Hebrew and Greek into Latin, then into English, then everybody wanted to sell a Bible, so how many translations now? (Imo NIV is the worst). From the Masoretic text, (basis for many translations), all references to anything spiritual ended up translated as "God", probably because the Israelites were into polygamy every chance they could.

So why would God say; "Thou shalt have no other gods, (Elohim) before me?   If Elohim was Jehovah.

Who was at the burning bush? Actually I should ask, how many were at the burning bush?

The burning bush was on the mountain of Elohim, now known as  Mount Sinai. The Angel of the Lord first, Then Moses, then Jehovah, then Elohim who speaks first, then Jehovah speaks, then Moses, then Jehovah explains the plan to get His people out of Egypt.  All called God, or Lord, meant to mean one in the same in the Baptist theology. The NIV takes the privilege of adding, "and God said" where it's not in the Masoretic, nor the KJV. 

We have this idea that one God does it all. If that is the case, why did God send Gabriel to Mary, or Muhammad? Would one God send Himself as a cloud by day and a pillar of fire at night? Why would He do what one angel could do? How arrogant would we be, to think God would spend 40 years of His time as a pillar of smoke or fire? 

None, be it The Lord, of, the Angel of, nor the Word of, are mentioned in a context of parts nor partners. All work for one God. 

At least that's what the Bible says, not exactly what the Baptists say.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I have read in most of the scholarly literature, YHWH was originally a Bronze age Kenite God who was slowly transmitted north into Iron age Canaan, and was eventually adopted as the national God of the Kingdom of Israel and Judah around 930 BC. A small faction of Yahwist, the earliest known being the prophet Elijah (900 BC), advocated for the worship of YHWH alone over other gods, and this lead to other Israelite prophets like Amos (760 BC) and Hosea (730 BC) following in his foot steps. This faction eventually spread to Judah after northern refugees from Israel began fleeing south, hoping to escape the invading Assyrians. Prophets began arising in Judah, like Isaiah (700 BC), who began pushing Yahwism into the establishment. Now, at this time, the Yahwist hadn't been totally monotheistic, but more on the lines of henotheism, that is, the worship of one and only one God whilst still accepting the existence of other deities; they may have also been appropriating the qualities of other deities and ascribing them to YHWH, as with the case of the Canaanite god El being identified as YHWH. Around 648 BC, King Josiah rose to power and enacted heavy religious reforms in Judah, establishing YHWH as the only God worthy of worship in all of Judah. This is when the Torah (the Pentateuch for Christians) began its first stages of compilation, being sourced from earlier Israelite traditions. King Josiah's reforms didn't last long because his successors went straight back into idolatry. From 605 BC to 539 BC, the Babylonians conquered Judah and deported its population, until the Persians, lead by King Cyrus the Great, conquered the Babylonians and let the Jews return back to Judah. Sometime during the captivity, monotheism finally became established, and YHWH was now regarded as the only God is existence, and the God of the universe. This is when Judaism begins, and YHWH would of course go on to become the God of Christianity, and later Islam; though due to the traditions of 3rd century BC Jews, his name would be lost to us except within the limits of the tetragrammaton. Jews and Christians tend to replace YHWH with "Lord" or "the almighty", and Muslims basically renamed him "Allah", which is Arabic for "God" or "the God."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. You could've given me a link to this topic at hand there @SunniBrother, but oh well now I get it.

So its ok to say Elah or El-Shaddai since it'll mean Allah?

Were the 72 names of God under Judeo-Christian sources been truly rejected or were some of them carried over as the 99 names of God in Islamic sources?

All in all, it all boils down to confusing semantics between Hebrew, Aramaic, and Arabic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 _ye=yehi, ho=howeh, wa=hawah_ می‌باشد. بنابراین معنای یهوه عبارت است از "کسی که هست، می‌باشد و خواهد بود".[20]

_ye = yehi, ho = howeh, wa = hawah_. Therefore, the meaning of the Lord is "who is, is and will be". [20]

http://pajoohe.ir/یهوه-Yahweh__a-45325.aspx

Dehkhoda states in this regard that "the Lord" was not the beginning of the name of the absolute God of Moses, but before his time the Israelites led him to the head of the three groups of the half-gods of the cryptoons (winged snakes) and the goddesses of the clouds Knew [6].
So this word has been used among the Israelites before the Torah descends, and it is not something that has come about with the descent of the Torah.

http://www.andisheqom.com/public/application/index/viewData?c=7978&t=qa

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/09/2017 at 7:50 AM, Christianity said:

From what I have read in most of the scholarly literature, YHWH was originally a Bronze age Kenite God who was slowly transmitted north into Iron age Canaan, and was eventually adopted as the national God of the Kingdom of Israel and Judah around 930 BC. A small faction of Yahwist, the earliest known being the prophet Elijah (900 BC), advocated for the worship of YHWH alone over other gods, and this lead to other Israelite prophets like Amos (760 BC) and Hosea (730 BC) following in his foot steps. This faction eventually spread to Judah after northern refugees from Israel began fleeing south, hoping to escape the invading Assyrians. Prophets began arising in Judah, like Isaiah (700 BC), who began pushing Yahwism into the establishment. Now, at this time, the Yahwist hadn't been totally monotheistic, but more on the lines of henotheism, that is, the worship of one and only one God whilst still accepting the existence of other deities; they may have also been appropriating the qualities of other deities and ascribing them to YHWH, as with the case of the Canaanite god El being identified as YHWH. Around 648 BC, King Josiah rose to power and enacted heavy religious reforms in Judah, establishing YHWH as the only God worthy of worship in all of Judah. This is when the Torah (the Pentateuch for Christians) began its first stages of compilation, being sourced from earlier Israelite traditions. King Josiah's reforms didn't last long because his successors went straight back into idolatry. From 605 BC to 539 BC, the Babylonians conquered Judah and deported its population, until the Persians, lead by King Cyrus the Great, conquered the Babylonians and let the Jews return back to Judah. Sometime during the captivity, monotheism finally became established, and YHWH was now regarded as the only God is existence, and the God of the universe. This is when Judaism begins, and YHWH would of course go on to become the God of Christianity, and later Islam; though due to the traditions of 3rd century BC Jews, his name would be lost to us except within the limits of the tetragrammaton. Jews and Christians tend to replace YHWH with "Lord" or "the almighty", and Muslims basically renamed him "Allah", which is Arabic for "God" or "the God."

Can you please share a link that states what those scholars said about YHWH. I would appreciate it 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MohammadAli1993 said:

Can you please share a link that states what those scholars said about YHWH. I would appreciate it 

Here is a link to a course on the entire Hebrew Bible. 24 hours long. Lecture 7, from the 27th minute, deals with the name of Jahwe. 

http://numerocinqmagazine.com/2013/05/20/introduction-to-the-old-testament-open-yale/

Edited by andres

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...