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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why we do matam?

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Just now, Muslim96 said:

Ok then this site is lying:

https://www.al-islam.org/living-right-way-ayatullah-jawad-tehraani/avoiding-false-accusations

Why shall I repent for quoting him? I provided you the source why don't you read it first before you talk? Such ignorance is unbelievable. Go and read first and when it is wrong what I said and that is not in that book then you can say that. You better repent and come back to islam.

Besides that, in Islam accusing someone is wrong and that is clear. Even Quran says in 49:12:

O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

Source which book ? You did not provide book's name just said this is page in Arabic which you know I do not understand and therefore said it is of Ayotullah Khoi, please bring a book with name and page number. Otherwise, you had falsely accused an scholar. 

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If you are looking for any rational or logical justification, we don't have any.

@Salsabeel @Sindbad05 @Muslim96 Larai larai maaf kero Allah ka ghar saaf kero.

Dont get angry brother, she hit her face once or twice or thrice. She never made it a tradition to beat her face every year on the day when angels gave her the glad tidings of a son. I have just

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2 minutes ago, Muslim96 said:

Ok then this site is lying:

https://www.al-islam.org/living-right-way-ayatullah-jawad-tehraani/avoiding-false-accusations

Why shall I repent for quoting him? I provided you the source why don't you read it first before you talk? Such ignorance is unbelievable. Go and read first and when it is wrong what I said and that is not in that book then you can say that. You better repent and come back to islam.

Show me in which section, it is written, I want to confirm it. 

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2 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Source which book ? You did not provide book's name just said this is page in Arabic which you know I do not understand and therefore said it is of Ayotullah Khoi, please bring a book with name and page number. Otherwise, you had falsely accused an scholar. 

If you would open your eyes you would see that I already called the book.

May Allah swt. forgive your ignorance.

I will stop talking to you now go study as you wanted to. I hope the mods are fair and will ban trolls. If you want to learn for islam then learn if you want to stay ignorant then stay ignorant. I provided you sources why should I waste my time anymore the rest is your decision. May Allah swt. guide you.

Wassalam.

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Just now, Muslim96 said:

If you would open your eyes you would see that I already called the book.

May Allah swt. forgive your ignorance.

I confirm about quote of Imam Jafar al Sadiq a.s, Indeed, Calumny is worst of sins that is why God had chosen worst punishment for it. 

I did not see a book name, I saw something as below, what is this a date ? I asked you reference and you give me a date for what ???????

59 minutes ago, Muslim96 said:

18th Jumādā al-Ūlā 1409 AH. Ayatullah Khoei.

Ok, this matter is finished, this is your concern you repent or not, who knows you did not intend for it and Allah AWJ does not punishes one who are unaware of it. 

If you dislike anything because of me, I am sorry for that. 

Khuda Hafiz :) 

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7 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

I confirm about quote of Imam Jafar al Sadiq a.s, Indeed, Calumny is worst of sins that is why God had chosen worst punishment for it. 

I did not see a book name, I saw something as below, what is this a date ? I asked you reference and you give me a date for what ???????

Ok, this matter is finished, this is your concern you repent or not, who knows you did not intend for it and Allah AWJ does not punishes one who are unaware of it. 

If you dislike anything because of me, I am sorry for that. 

Khuda Hafiz :) 

It is the date of the fatwa and you are ignoring that fatwa. As you want, your life, your decisions. Ask someone that can speak arabic to read it for you. Someone you trust, else you would accuse him too:hahaha:

I will not repent saying the truth you better repent for your behaviour and false accusations.

May Allah swt. forgive you.

Have a nice day.

Wassalam.

Edited by Muslim96
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Just now, Muslim96 said:

It is the date of the fatwa and you are ignoring that fatwa. As you want, your life, your decisions. Ask someone that can speak arabic to read it for you. Someone you trust, else you would accuse him too:hahaha:

May Allah swt. forgive you.

Have a nice day.

Wassalam.

Date of Fatwa not in Taudih amazing. 

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11 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Cut with platinum blade. 

So you have invented a new type of blood shedding. 

By the way, if you dont do zanjir zani or qama zani, you have no right to speak in favor of these actions.

Here is the reason:

Surah As-Saff, Verse 2:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لِمَ تَقُولُونَ مَا لَا تَفْعَلُونَ

O you who believe! why do you say that which you do not do?

(English - Shakir)

Surah As-Saff, Verse 3:

كَبُرَ مَقْتًا عِندَ اللَّهِ أَن تَقُولُوا مَا لَا تَفْعَلُونَ

It is most hateful to Allah that you should say that which you do not do.

(English - Shakir)

Pooya/Ali Commentary 61:2]

These words here are specially directed to the faint-hearted companions who had talked much but failed miserably to back up their resolution in words with firmness in action as at the battle of Uhad. Refer to the commentary of Ali Imran: 121, 128, 140 to 142, 144, 151 to 156, 159, 166 to 168 and Anfal: 16.

Those who do not put into practice what they preach are hated and disliked by Allah.

Edited by Salsabeel
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Salaam, I am new here. Interesting topic, nevertheless. Honestly, as someone who used to practice zanjeer zani for a good portion of my teen years, I really do not see any rational or logical justifications to it. Once you widen the scope of your vision, you will come to conclusion that the practices are nothing but cult traditions. If you really try to find traces of the practice, they lead to Safavid Iran, which ironically is where a lot of innovations crept in to the school of Ahlul Bayt.

Just look at the matter from a simplistic view: The Holy Prophet (SAWW) or his lineage (AS) did not practice this (orchestrated intense chest bruising or orchestrated blood letting--I am not speaking of mourning or crying), so why do we hold it as a banner of "the teachings of Ahlul Bayt"? Do we know how to "get closer to Allah SWT" than them? Just ask yourself that.

I know a great amount of individuals who stopped zanjeer zani in favor of blood donations. I thank Allah SWT for allowing me to come out of that stage of my life and allowing me to introduce Imam Hussain (AS) in a positive light to the outside world. As for those that defend the practice as if it was the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (SAWW), here are some words from the Almighty SWT to ponder over:

And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allah has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided? (Quran 2:170) Sahih International

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I don't think there is necessarily a "rational" justification for zanjeer blood matam.

However, the way i look at it is there are many actions in our religion that don't necessarily have a logical reason. For example the actions we do in salat, there isn't really a reason why we do ruku, sajda in that order. If i am correct, the quran doesn't mention specifically these actions we do in salat. It's not natural or logical, but it is something that the Prophet (SAW) and his holy Ahlulbeyt practised.

Of course, i am in no way holding the importance of salat and blood matam is the same- one is wajib other isn't.   

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On 9/8/2017 at 3:07 PM, 786:) said:

Just look at the matter from a simplistic view: The Holy Prophet (SAWW) or his lineage (AS) did not practice this (orchestrated intense chest bruising or orchestrated blood letting--I am not speaking of mourning or crying), so why do we hold it as a banner of "the teachings of Ahlul Bayt"? Do we know how to "get closer to Allah SWT" than them? Just ask yourself that.

Salaam brother,

Not to sound rude but the Prophet and his lineage never used ShiaChat either but here we are....

We are shia. Basic shia faith principle is that everything is permitted unless it is forbidden. So unless your marja specifically prohibits it, it is permitted.

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41 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Salaam brother,

Not to sound rude but the Prophet and his lineage never used ShiaChat either but here we are....

We are shia. Basic shia faith principle is that everything is permitted unless it is forbidden. So unless your marja specifically prohibits it, it is permitted.

Yeah, if that is your best backing for it then bismillah--that is you. Does not work for me just because something is deemed a "Shia" thing or our marjas are inconsistent over it.

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17 hours ago, 786:) said:

Yeah, if that is your best backing for it then bismillah--that is you. Does not work for me just because something is deemed a "Shia" thing or our marjas are inconsistent over it.

Only thing that works for me is that it is permitted on the very land and place where Imam Hussain (as) was martyred.

We use our intellect to justify doing or not doing something when these things should be left upon the marajae to decide. 

For example, I find it weird that they re-enact Karbala in plays in Iraq and even have depictions of it. I neither condemn it nor condone it. 

I respect your opinions brother. 

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10 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Only thing that works for me is that it is permitted on the very land and place where Imam Hussain (as) was martyred.

We use our intellect to justify doing or not doing something when these things should be left upon the marajae to decide. 

For example, I find it weird that they re-enact Karbala in plays in Iraq and even have depictions of it. I neither condemn it nor condone it. 

I respect your opinions brother. 

That is fine my brother. That must mean that folding your arms for prayer and taraweeh must also be valid since it is permitted in Masjid al Haram and Masjid an Nabawi? That is the land where the Holy Prophet (saww) and his family (as) are buried.

Again, I do not mean any disrespect. I think you are capable of challenging yourself better than that.

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44 minutes ago, 786:) said:

That is fine my brother. That must mean that folding your arms for prayer and taraweeh must also be valid since it is permitted in Masjid al Haram and Masjid an Nabawi? That is the land where the Holy Prophet (saww) and his family (as) are buried.

Brother - folding arms and taraweeh are not permitted by our marja so I am not following your logic. I am not saying tatbir is permissible because people do it in Karbala. I am saying tatbir is permissible that is why people do it in Karbala. Big difference...

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47 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Again, I do not mean any disrespect. I think you are capable of challenging yourself better than that.

When it comes to religious matters, I rely on our esteemed marajae. My only challenge is to set aside my ego and obey my marja.

This is not blind faith but educated faith in that I trust their judgment.

I hardly come across anyone who simply says "I am against tatbir because Ayatollah Khamenei (or another marja) is against it". It's always, " I think" or ”I believe". Respectfully what we think or feel or believe is irrelevant when compared to the knowledge of our marajae.

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4 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Brother - folding arms and taraweeh are not permitted by our marja so I am not following your logic. I am not saying tatbir is permissible because people do it in Karbala. I am saying tatbir is permissible that is why people do it in Karbala. Big difference...

 

18 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

When it comes to religious matters, I rely on our esteemed marajae. My only challenge is to set aside my ego and obey my marja.

This is not blind faith but educated faith in that I trust their judgment.

I hardly come across anyone who simply says "I am against tatbir because Ayatollah Khamenei (or another marja) is against it". It's always, " I think" or ”I believe". Respectfully what we think or feel or believe is irrelevant when compared to the knowledge of our marajae.

You have to understand that marjahs hold a political position as well as religious. I am by no means bashing the marjah institution, but they are not infallible. I look to them for guidance on fiqh, but at the end of the day I have a brain for myself and I do not buy this whole transfer of sin game that we think Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى will let us play on the final day. Each individual is responsible for their own actions in this world. If you think you can ride the taqlid train to being spotless on the day of judgement, where everything you did wrong goes on the shoulder of your Marjah, then every Christian, Jew, etc will have a pretty clean slate too.

Also, Agha Khamenei has a much stronger pull on his people than does Agha Sistani. That is why he declared blood matam haram. He will lose marginal following by this fatwa. Whereas, in Agha Sistani's case, his grip on his following is not as strong. He will lose a substantial amount of people to other marjahs who allow blood matam by banning blood matam. Why else do you think he remains silent on it?

You have to see these issues from a holistic view and not just from one angle. Yes, they are marjahs and they know more than us. In contrast, there are various opinions and various socioeconomics tied to their fatwas as well.

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4 hours ago, 786:) said:

 

You have to understand that marjahs hold a political position as well as religious. I am by no means bashing the marjah institution, but they are not infallible. I look to them for guidance on fiqh, but at the end of the day I have a brain for myself and I do not buy this whole transfer of sin game that we think Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى will let us play on the final day. Each individual is responsible for their own actions in this world. If you think you can ride the taqlid train to being spotless on the day of judgement, where everything you did wrong goes on the shoulder of your Marjah, then every Christian, Jew, etc will have a pretty clean slate too.

Age old argument...marajae are not infallible unless of course their rulings are in line with your thinking. People read a couple of books and start thinking they know more than marajae. Me having a shortcut to WebMD makes me no more a DR than you reading a couple of books makes you a marja.

This has nothing to do with the taqleed train. You follow a marja because they are the experts in deen and no other reason. Most of us have middle school level Islamic knowledge yet we are ready to issue fatwas correcting marajae. While we are at it, you might as well be teaching Einstein why his theory of relativity is wrong.

4 hours ago, 786:) said:

Also, Agha Khamenei has a much stronger pull on his people than does Agha Sistani. That is why he declared blood matam haram. He will lose marginal following by this fatwa. Whereas, in Agha Sistani's case, his grip on his following is not as strong. He will lose a substantial amount of people to other marjahs who allow blood matam by banning blood matam. Why else do you think he remains silent on it?

You have to see these issues from a holistic view and not just from one angle. Yes, they are marjahs and they know more than us. In contrast, there are various opinions and various socioeconomics tied to their fatwas as well.

So what you are saying is that Ayatollah Sistani is actually against tatbir but he just doesn't want to lose his muqallid so he would rather let us some or all of them do haram. Correct?

And of course he doesn't want to lose his muqallid because that would mean losing khums $$$. 

But if Ayatollah Sistani thinks that he will lose more followers by being silent on tatbir, then he will issue whatever verdict that helps him get more followers...more khums $$$

Edited by shiaman14
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Khums plays a big role in rulings from marjahs, yes. It is also a power play as well. For example, cigerettes. Does it require a marjah to conclude it is poison and equivalent to slow suicide? Or can you come up with it yourself without confirmation from the marjahs?

I am firm in my belief that marjahs do not prohibit tobacco or cigerettes in fear of losing their muqallid as they know most of their muqallids smoke. They play it safe by labeling it makrooh. I believe the sensitive matter of zanjeer is also the same way in terms of preserving muqallids.

I hope this is not offensive by the way. I am by no means an akhbari, but I also do not agree with the conventional shoulder everything on the marjah taqlid.

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17 hours ago, 786:) said:

I hope this is not offensive by the way. I am by no means an akhbari, but I also do not agree with the conventional shoulder everything on the marjah taqlid.

Not offensive to me at all. This is more about your attitude and feeling about our esteemed marajae.

17 hours ago, 786:) said:

I am firm in my belief that marjahs do not prohibit tobacco or cigerettes in fear of losing their muqallid as they know most of their muqallids smoke. They play it safe by labeling it makrooh. I believe the sensitive matter of zanjeer is also the same way in terms of preserving muqallids.

Couldn't it also be as simple as marajae saying that anything harmful to the body is haram. Then it would be up to the individual to decide whether to pursue an activity which may or may not be harmful to the individual This could be about smoking or tatbir or any topic really. Next you will want their fatwa on vaping. If they don't issue one, you will say it is to not offend people and keep getting khums; if they issue a fatwa, you will immediately go into the scientific benefits of vaping and complain about the marajae not knowing enough about current, modern day issues.

The marajae provide guidance, it is up to the people to adhere to the guidance or not.

17 hours ago, 786:) said:

Khums plays a big role in rulings from marjahs, yes. It is also a power play as well. For example, cigerettes. Does it require a marjah to conclude it is poison and equivalent to slow suicide? Or can you come up with it yourself without confirmation from the marjahs?

essentially, marajae rulings are based on generating more khums money, correct?

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On 9/7/2017 at 10:11 PM, Sindbad05 said:
On 9/7/2017 at 9:06 PM, Munzir Ahmed said:

the pain would not have subsided

The above narration which you have quoted is mentions that  Imam Ali a.s says that the pain will not go however, we  cannot go against your quotes to avoid fulfilling our social and domestic responsibilities and remain in grief till day of judgement by leaving other obligations of Deen. 

Right. Pain will not end but the same Imam Ali in the same sermon has also said that Prophet saw has prevented us from bewailing/mourning i.e self beating of all types. Feeling sad and producing tears is natural. Bewailing/mourning is prohibited.

On 9/7/2017 at 9:06 PM, Munzir Ahmed said:

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 232 

Spoken when Imam was busy in the funeral ablution of the Holy Prophet and shrouding him 

If you had not ordered endurance and prevented us from bewailing, we would have produced a store of tears and even then the pain would not have subsided, and this grief would not have ended, and they would have been too little of our grief for you. But this (death) is a matter that cannot be reversed nor is it possible to repulse it. May my father and my mother die for you; do remember us with Allah and take care of us.

A

 

Capture.PNG.d1e967eb4862bd5427a0c04bebb01cdd.PNG

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On 9/7/2017 at 10:33 PM, Sindbad05 said:
On 9/7/2017 at 9:06 PM, Munzir Ahmed said:

322. When Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, returned to Kufah from Siffin he passed by the residences of the Shibamites (who belonged to the tribe of Shibam) and heard the women weeping over those killed in Siffin. At that time a Shibamite, Harb ibn Shurahbil ash-Shibami, who was one of the nobles of those people, came to him, and Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said to him: Do your women have control over you as regards the weeping that I hear? Do you not refrain them from this crying? Harb began to walk with him while Amir al-mu'minin was on horseback, so Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said to him: Get back because the walking of a man like you with one like me is mischief for the ruler and disgrace for the believer.

There are two types of weeping, weeping due to fear of death as Abu Bakar  wept in cave of Hira and Allah AWJ stopped him from such crying. Imam Ali a.s stopped that lady from crying because of this reason and if her weeping would have been that of ladies who wept over Hazrat Hamza a.s then Imam Ali a.s would not have stopped her as it was Sunnah of the Prophet PBUHHP. 

If you cry against Allah, it is Kufur, if you cry for Allah, it is Ibadah. Weeping and Matam over Hussain a.s is as Weeping and Matam over Hazrat Hamzah a.s. 

Great assumption. But there is nothing like this in the quote.

Try to understand the difference between weeping and mourning/bewailing. Weeping combined by mourning or crying with loud voices is the problem. That was the case with women surely. As Imam said weeping that I hear not which I see.

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On 9/11/2017 at 7:37 AM, shiaman14 said:

Salaam brother,

Not to sound rude but the Prophet and his lineage never used ShiaChat either but here we are....

We are shia. Basic shia faith principle is that everything is permitted unless it is forbidden. So unless your marja specifically prohibits it, it is permitted.

W.salam

Your marja? There are some who say its prohibited and others say no its not. Then who is correct? And all of them claim to follow ahlulbayt. This is a mockery to religion.

I am not interested in what your so called marja say or not. Here is something from Imam Ali directly.

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 232 

Spoken when Imam was busy in the funeral ablution of the Holy Prophet and shrouding him 

May my father and my mother shed their lives for you. O Messenger of Allah! With your death the process of prophethood, revelation and heavenly messages has stopped, which had not stopped at the death of others (prophets). Your position with us (members of your family) is so special that your grief has become a source of consolation (to us) as against the grief of all others; your grief is also common so that all Muslims share it equally. If you had not ordered endurance and prevented us from bewailing, we would have produced a store of tears and even then the pain would not have subsided, and this grief would not have ended, and they would have been too little of our grief for you. But this (death) is a matter that cannot be reversed nor is it possible to repulse it. May my father and my mother die for you; do remember us with Allah and take care of us.

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5 hours ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

Right. Pain will not end but the same Imam Ali in the same sermon has also said that Prophet saw has prevented us from bewailing/mourning i.e self beating of all types. Feeling sad and producing tears is natural. Bewailing/mourning is prohibited.

On 9/7/2017 at 9:06 PM, Munzir Ahmed said:

bewailing in Arabic is not like in English where you keep glasses on your face but have pain in heart. It means mourning with wailing. And this sentence do not make it clear that Prophet PBUHHP had stopped Imam Ali a.s from wailing for whole life and it does not say that according to your claim that Prophet PBUHHP stopped him from making a house of Sadness like Hazrat Yaqoub a.s built for Hazrat Yousuf a.s where he used to cry till he met Hazrat Yousuf a.s. There is famous tradition if you want to learn is that Sayeda Fatima Zahra a.s wept for 6 months for Prophet PBUHHP since the demise of Prophet PBUHHP till her Martyrdom. So, you think you know more about Prophet PBUHHP than Sayeda Fatima Zahra a.s ? While all of the scholars agree on that She is Queen of Women of all ages. 

Secondly, since there was huge responsibility upon the shoulders of Imam Ali a.s, therefore, it was the main reason for which Prophet PBUHHP stopped Imam Ali a.s from avoiding all his life in corner due to sadness, the tasks of Allah AWJ have to be carried. 

Though Imam Ali a.s says that we would have made storehouses of tears implying towards Hazrat Yaqub a.s' house of Sadness, yet he did not say that I will not cry at all.  However, since there are upon us other obligaitons of life without which our life will be stagnant, we should be sad for number of days in year. It is not prohibited both from Quran and Hadith. 

  • make a prolonged high-pitched sound.
    "the wind wailed and buffeted the timber structure"
    synonyms: howl, weep, cry, sob, moan, groan, keen, lament, yowl, blubber, snivel, whimper, whine, squall, bawl, shriek, scream, yelp, caterwaul, waul; More
     
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5 hours ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

Great assumption. But there is nothing like this in the quote.

Try to understand the difference between weeping and mourning/bewailing. Weeping combined by mourning or crying with loud voices is the problem. That was the case with women surely. As Imam said weeping that I hear not which I see.

  • Lolz, read Quran bro. 
  •  
    Mourning and Wailing for the oppressed is permissible according to Quran. I have already posted a verse which you should read which says: "Allah does not like hurtful speeches except for the person who is oppressed".  
     
    The wailing which you quoted about Imam Ali a.s, Imam Ali a.s had said truth that wailing all the times and not attending the questions of those who seek guidance will be violation of the duty of Imam. 
     
    However, Since syeda Zahra a.s had not that much responsibility, you could read that she used to weep so much that the neighbors used to say that ask her to stop cry or built her a house away from this neighborhood. 
     
    Since there is clear meaning from Quran and hurtful speech is very clear then why you are not accepting it.
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7 hours ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

W.salam

Your marja? There are some who say its prohibited and others say no its not. Then who is correct? And all of them claim to follow ahlulbayt. This is a mockery to religion.

The only mockery of religion comes from ignorant fools who read a few books and think of themselves as experts in deen.

7 hours ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

I am not interested in what your so called marja say or not.

So why should I or anyone else be interested in what you have to say?

7 hours ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

Here is something from Imam Ali directly.

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 232 

Spoken when Imam was busy in the funeral ablution of the Holy Prophet and shrouding him 

May my father and my mother shed their lives for you. O Messenger of Allah! With your death the process of prophethood, revelation and heavenly messages has stopped, which had not stopped at the death of others (prophets). Your position with us (members of your family) is so special that your grief has become a source of consolation (to us) as against the grief of all others; your grief is also common so that all Muslims share it equally. If you had not ordered endurance and prevented us from bewailing, we would have produced a store of tears and even then the pain would not have subsided, and this grief would not have ended, and they would have been too little of our grief for you. But this (death) is a matter that cannot be reversed nor is it possible to repulse it. May my father and my mother die for you; do remember us with Allah and take care of us.

Be honest now, - did you hear this directly from Imam Ali (as) or via a book that some scholar (Syed Razi) wrote?

Isn't it funny that you use a book compiled by a scholar to discredit other scholars.

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On 9/13/2017 at 9:14 PM, Sindbad05 said:

bewailing in Arabic is not like in English where you keep glasses on your face but have pain in heart. It means mourning with wailing. And this sentence do not make it clear that Prophet PBUHHP had stopped Imam Ali a.s from wailing for whole life and it does not say that according to your claim that Prophet PBUHHP stopped him from making a house of Sadness like Hazrat Yaqoub a.s built for Hazrat Yousuf a.s where he used to cry till he met Hazrat Yousuf a.s. There is famous tradition if you want to learn is that Sayeda Fatima Zahra a.s wept for 6 months for Prophet PBUHHP since the demise of Prophet PBUHHP till her Martyrdom. So, you think you know more about Prophet PBUHHP than Sayeda Fatima Zahra a.s ? While all of the scholars agree on that She is Queen of Women of all ages. 

Secondly, since there was huge responsibility upon the shoulders of Imam Ali a.s, therefore, it was the main reason for which Prophet PBUHHP stopped Imam Ali a.s from avoiding all his life in corner due to sadness, the tasks of Allah AWJ have to be carried. 

Though Imam Ali a.s says that we would have made storehouses of tears implying towards Hazrat Yaqub a.s' house of Sadness, yet he did not say that I will not cry at all.  However, since there are upon us other obligaitons of life without which our life will be stagnant, we should be sad for number of days in year. It is not prohibited both from Quran and Hadith. 

  • make a prolonged high-pitched sound.
    "the wind wailed and buffeted the timber structure"
    synonyms: howl, weep, cry, sob, moan, groan, keen, lament, yowl, blubber, snivel, whimper, whine, squall, bawl, shriek, scream, yelp, caterwaul, waul; More
     

You are not getting the difference between crying/being sad and mourning/bewailing/self-beating. One is human nature and other is a prohibition by Prophet saw.

 

On 9/13/2017 at 9:23 PM, Sindbad05 said:
  • Lolz, read Quran bro. 
  •  
    Mourning and Wailing for the oppressed is permissible according to Quran. I have already posted a verse which you should read which says: "Allah does not like hurtful speeches except for the person who is oppressed".  
     
    The wailing which you quoted about Imam Ali a.s, Imam Ali a.s had said truth that wailing all the times and not attending the questions of those who seek guidance will be violation of the duty of Imam. 
     
    However, Since syeda Zahra a.s had not that much responsibility, you could read that she used to weep so much that the neighbors used to say that ask her to stop cry or built her a house away from this neighborhood. 
     
    Since there is clear meaning from Quran and hurtful speech is very clear then why you are not accepting it.

This verses gives the freedom of speech to the oppressed one against the oppressor. Its about speech not self beating. You are assuming too much brother.

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On 9/13/2017 at 11:25 PM, shiaman14 said:
On 9/13/2017 at 3:50 PM, Munzir Ahmed said:

W.salam

Your marja? There are some who say its prohibited and others say no its not. Then who is correct? And all of them claim to follow ahlulbayt. This is a mockery to religion.

The only mockery of religion comes from ignorant fools who read a few books and think of themselves as experts in deen.

Perhaps that is why some marja say one thing and others say something else. Read your primary books, they are full of contradictions. So is the case with marjas.

 

On 9/13/2017 at 11:25 PM, shiaman14 said:
On 9/13/2017 at 3:50 PM, Munzir Ahmed said:

I am not interested in what your so called marja say or not.

So why should I or anyone else be interested in what you have to say?

I am quoting ahlebayt. Unlike your marja. Hence its clear that their verdict is contrary to ahlebayt teachings atleast in matters of mourning via self beating of all types.

 

On 9/13/2017 at 11:25 PM, shiaman14 said:
On 9/13/2017 at 3:50 PM, Munzir Ahmed said:

Here is something from Imam Ali directly.

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 232 

Spoken when Imam was busy in the funeral ablution of the Holy Prophet and shrouding him 

May my father and my mother shed their lives for you. O Messenger of Allah! With your death the process of prophethood, revelation and heavenly messages has stopped, which had not stopped at the death of others (prophets). Your position with us (members of your family) is so special that your grief has become a source of consolation (to us) as against the grief of all others; your grief is also common so that all Muslims share it equally. If you had not ordered endurance and prevented us from bewailing, we would have produced a store of tears and even then the pain would not have subsided, and this grief would not have ended, and they would have been too little of our grief for you. But this (death) is a matter that cannot be reversed nor is it possible to repulse it. May my father and my mother die for you; do remember us with Allah and take care of us.

Be honest now, - did you hear this directly from Imam Ali (as) or via a book that some scholar (Syed Razi) wrote?

Isn't it funny that you use a book compiled by a scholar to discredit other scholars.

Atleast I am referring to something from ahlebayt unlike your marja. May be because there isnt anything from ahlebayt in support of their verdict.

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6 hours ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

You are not getting the difference between crying/being sad and mourning/bewailing/self-beating. One is human nature and other is a prohibition by Prophet saw.

Bro, give me an answer please and this will end soon. 

Are you better aware of religion than daughter of Prophet PBUHHP or she is better than you ? 

If she is better than you then you must know that bewailing for the one who has no other important duty over him such as of Imamate is within Islam.

You are neither an Imam so that your bewailing would obstruct people to ask question about religion so you can bewail but if you really are an Imam then crying forever will obstruct the people to come to you and ask you problems. 

The main reason of your misunderstanding is that you are not very open in understanding things. Since you are from beginning taught to hate matam, you will not understand this. 

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