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Abul Hussain Hassani

Eid al-Ghadeer an innovation?

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Being happy for a happiest occasion is innovation ? Sunni brothers should read in their books that their second caliph congratulated Imam Ali a.s on the day of Ghadir say that I congratulate you on becoming our Maula. If this is innovation that every happiest occassion is innovation ? While Allah says in Quran that Allah does not stop you from living happily, so are they saying that is this wrong as well.  

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46 minutes ago, Abul Hussain Hassani said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

How significant is Eid al-Ghadeer among the Shias?

This article say this Eid has no basis in Shia sources and the Ahlulbait never celebrated it.

http://ghadirkhumm.com/eid-al-ghadir/

P.S. The website is run by Sunnis.

 

Salaam Alaykum

I read that article. That article discusses whether we should consider Ghadir event Eid or not. It never said that it doesn't exist, so I ask you this question: "If we don't consider an event as Eid, does it mean that we can violate it?" The article accepts the existence of Ghadir event. Alhamdulillah, there are a lot of Hadiths in SUNNI books that they all say our prophet SAW chose Ali as his successor. Look at this:

Sonan Tarmazy: Zeid-ibn-Arghem from Rasoulullah: " Whoever I am his/her Mawla, Ali is also his/her Mawla"

Tafsir Ibn-Kasir about this verse با ابها الرسول بلغ ما انزل الیک من ربک : "Allah sent this verse in Ghadir day"

There are a lot of Hadiths about Ghadir in SUNNI books. Check this out:

*Tafseer Alousi

*Abubakr Mohammad Hassan-ibn-Baghdadi mentioned Ghadir Hadith 15 times in different places.

There are so many books about Hadith Ghadir in Sunni books. Allameh Amini (=Shia Scholar) referred to Sunni books to prove Ghadir in Al-Ghadir book. Here is the link for Al-Ghadir book:

http://www.ziyaraat.net/findbook.asp?Escritor=Allama+Abdul+Hussain+al-Amini&Tema=All&orderby=titulo&idioma=All&srchwhat=All&submit=+Find+Books+

Sultan-ul-Waezin in "Pishawar Nights" book referred to Sunni books and a lot of people became Shia during the debate. Here is the link to this book:

https://www.al-islam.org/printpdf/book/export/html/18725

So up to now we both agree that Ghadir is in the books and we must follow prophet in EVERYTHING including Ghadir. 

The article you mentioned says that since Shia Imams recommended doing fasting in Ghadir day, so it's not Eid. This reason is SO weak. Remember the day that Moaviah killed Imam Hussain, he fasted that day because he was so proud of what he did.

At the end of that article it says that Shia Muslims follow Imams. It's correct. We do follow them including fasting in Ghadir which is Mustahab. Now let's look at a Hadith that Shia Muslims consider Ghadir as Eid.

Ziad-Ibn-Mohammad said that I asked Imam Sadegh that is there any other Eid rather than Fetr and Aladha and Jumah? Imam Sadegh said: Yes, Eid-Al-Ghadir. (Source: Mesbah-Al-Mojtahed 736)

The article said we follow Imams, and that is the reason we consider Al-Ghadir as Eid.

 

و من الله توفیق

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1 hour ago, Abul Hussain Hassani said:

The website is run by Sunnis.

That bit of info right there deems the website invalid for us.

Note to Mods: Can we have that link blocked out so that ill educated or under educated Shia don't go there and become as deviated as the authors of that website.

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2 hours ago, Abul Hussain Hassani said:

How significant is Eid al-Ghadeer among the Shias?

Actually, this day is significant for all Muslims because of the revelation of underlined portion of the following verse:

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 3:

حُرِّمَتْ عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَيْتَةُ وَالدَّمُ وَلَحْمُ الْخِنزِيرِ وَمَا أُهِلَّ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ بِهِ وَالْمُنْخَنِقَةُ وَالْمَوْقُوذَةُ وَالْمُتَرَدِّيَةُ وَالنَّطِيحَةُ وَمَا أَكَلَ السَّبُعُ إِلَّا مَا ذَكَّيْتُمْ وَمَا ذُبِحَ عَلَى النُّصُبِ وَأَن تَسْتَقْسِمُوا بِالْأَزْلَامِ ذَٰلِكُمْ فِسْقٌ الْيَوْمَ يَئِسَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِن دِينِكُمْ فَلَا تَخْشَوْهُمْ وَاخْشَوْنِ الْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ الْإِسْلَامَ دِينًا فَمَنِ اضْطُرَّ فِي مَخْمَصَةٍ غَيْرَ مُتَجَانِفٍ لِّإِثْمٍ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal) and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols) and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

(English - Shakir)

From alyawm to Islama dina was revealed when the Holy Prophet announced at Ghadir Khum: "Of whomsoever I am the mawla (master) Ali is his mawla (master)". Please study the event of Ghadir Khum in the commentary of verse 5:67 of this surah.

Ahmad bin Hanbal, the founder of Hanbali sect, writes in his Musnad that a Jew had told the second caliph: "If there were a similar declaration in the Pentateuch, the Jews would have celebrated the day as a great festival."

This verse is also a clear testimony to the perfection of the religion of Islam. 

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Just now, islam25 said:

Expression happiness on day great Islamic event is innovation. 

 

I can't lie because Islam forbid such thing. It's bidah. Mawlid is also bidah. I would be lying if I said that it isn't. The thing is that there is two types of Bidah, good and bad. I am not condemning anyone.

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2 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

I can't lie because Islam forbid such thing. It's bidah. Mawlid is also bidah. I would be lying if I said that it isn't. The thing is that there is two types of Bidah, good and bad. I am not condemning anyone.

For me expression love for Mohhammad saww and his household Is true Islam. 

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11 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

I can't lie because Islam forbid such thing. It's bidah. Mawlid is also bidah. I would be lying if I said that it isn't. The thing is that there is two types of Bidah, good and bad. I am not condemning anyone.

Something that is not alien to your fitra - Like celebrating for the sake of Allah purely abiding by the laws of Allah, How can be such celebration a Bidah?? A Bidah is always bad. There is nothing like good bidah. All good is Islam only. A creation can't think of a good that is not in Islam.

After all, Allah perfected His religion on the day of Ghadeer. Isn't that makes you happy? Eid is What? - A day of celebration.

Edited by Waseem162

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16 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Something that is not alien to your fitra - Like celebrating for the sake of Allah purely abiding by the laws of Allah, How can be such celebration a Bidah?? A Bidah is always bad. There is nothing like good bidah. All good is Islam only. A creation can't think of a good that is not in Islam.

After all, Allah perfected His religion on the day of Ghadeer. Isn't that makes you happy? Eid is What? - A day of celebration.

Brother. I classical sunnism there is good and bad bidah. This version of all bidah is bad is the same method that Wahhabis use. Madhabds are bidah, books of hadith is bidah, the methodologies to read the Qur'an and Hadiths are bidah. For example I saw a twelver who had the idea of reading tafseer of the Qur'an with the Qur'an. That's a bidah, but a good one. Usul is bidah. So on and so fort. There's good and bad bidah. This term of labeling all bidah bad is the same that Ibn Taymiyyah used and the same wahhabis use. Getting a piece of clay from Karbala to put your head in is bidah. Were does the Prophet (s.a.w.s) went to Karbala get clay to pray? Here is the biggest Bidah of all that Allah Himself ordered "Change the qibla from Jerusalem to Mecca".

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5 hours ago, Abul Hussain Hassani said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

How significant is Eid al-Ghadeer among the Shias?

This article say this Eid has no basis in Shia sources and the Ahlulbait never celebrated it.

http://ghadirkhumm.com/eid-al-ghadir/

P.S. The website is run by Sunnis.

 

Does the foolish statement by sunni make any sense. No certainly not This is only way to blame the shia ulema and i condemn such foolish OP by sunnis.

Ghader has been discussed many times and sunni friends get nothing out of it.

Edited by skyweb1987

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7 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

Does the foolish statement by sunni makes any sense. No certainly not This is only way to blame the shia ulema and i condemn such foolish OP by sunnis.

Ghader has been discussed many times and sunni friends get nothing out of it.

I saw the site. Is run by Salafis. Please stop calling them Sunnis.

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6 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

Brother. I classical sunnism there is good and bad bidah. This version of all bidah is bad is the same method that Wahhabis use. Madhabds are bidah, books of hadith is bidah, the methodologies to read the Qur'an and Hadiths are bidah. For example I saw a twelver who had the idea of reading tafseer of the Qur'an with the Qur'an. That's a bidah, but a good one. Usul is bidah. So on and so fort. There's good and bad bidah. This term of labeling all bidah bad is the same that Ibn Taymiyyah used and the same wahhabis use. Getting a piece of clay from Karbala to put your head in is bidah. Were does the Prophet (s.a.w.s) went to Karbala get clay to pray? Here is the biggest Bidah of all that Allah Himself ordered "Change the qibla from Jerusalem to Mecca".

:) What is not bidah according to you, lets count:

1. Running from the battle field even after taking oath/pledge of not showing back to enemies.

2. Doubting on the Prophethood.

3. Raising voices on/before Prophet.

4. Assalato khayrun min an-nowm.

5. Tarawih

6. Mixing up the haqq & batil.

7. Concealing the haqq. 

Etc...

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7 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

But OP mentions it is run by Sunnis.

Who is correct? You or OP

Who cares with this stupid labels. They are salafis, not Sunnis. Why are you blaming everyone of us?

 

7 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

:) What is not bidah according to you, lets count:

1. Running from the battle field even after taking oath/pledge of not showing back to enemies.

2. Doubting on the Prophethood.

3. Raising voices on/before Prophet.

4. Assalato khayrun min an-nowm.

5. Tarawih

6. Mixing up the haqq & batil.

7. Concealing the haqq. 

Etc...

1 - It happens.

2 - That is Kufr

3 - Disrespectful

4 - I have no idea what is that

5 - That's good bidah

6 - Dishonesty

 

7 - That's really dishonest

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My Sunni friends call Imam Ali (a.s) as either as Mola Ali or as Imam Ali. When anyone asks them why they are using Mola with Ali, they give the reference of hadith e ghadir and when asked about Imam, they recite the verse of Sura e Yaseen.

Edited by Salsabeel

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3 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

Who cares with this stupid labels. They are salafis, not Sunnis. Why are you blaming everyone of us?

No i am not blaming any one its OP who puts Sunnis in OP, Thats why i responded to similar label.

Wasalam

Edited by skyweb1987

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Just now, skyweb1987 said:

No i am not blaming any one its OP who puts Sunnis in OP

Thats why i responded to similar name

I said that site is runned by Salafis. Not Sunnis. Sunnis celebrate Mawlid and believe in good and bad bidah. Wahhabis believe that those who celebrate Mawlid is going to hell in the deepest level of shirk and believe everyone is in bidah that is going to burn hell fire for eternity except them. Sunnis believe that Allah is merciful. Not this wahhabi idol with feets and hands sitting on a throne.

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17 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

Brother. I classical sunnism there is good and bad bidah. This version of all bidah is bad is the same method that Wahhabis use. Madhabds are bidah, books of hadith is bidah, the methodologies to read the Qur'an and Hadiths are bidah. For example I saw a twelver who had the idea of reading tafseer of the Qur'an with the Qur'an. That's a bidah, but a good one. Usul is bidah. So on and so fort. There's good and bad bidah. This term of labeling all bidah bad is the same that Ibn Taymiyyah used and the same wahhabis use. Getting a piece of clay from Karbala to put your head in is bidah. Were does the Prophet (s.a.w.s) went to Karbala get clay to pray? Here is the biggest Bidah of all that Allah Himself ordered "Change the qibla from Jerusalem to Mecca".

Well then I guess that the term "biddah" (innovation) is used more vaguely and generally in Sunni School of thought.

Innovation in Religion is something that is all in all a new rule and doesn't aligns with the basic base of laws you're given.

For us praying on clay/mud is base law of Islam. That clay could be from anywhere on Earth. And since Karbala is blessed and has Shifa in its soil, We pray on it. Similarly it has been said to read Quran, which explicitly means to read and understand it. Not to be a dumb sheep. So reading tafseer along with recitation is just as normal with the base law.

But your version of Biddah is more vague.

I tell you what Biddah is - "When you omit something from Adhan and put your own words there". Then it is biddah!!

"When you make Mutah illegal" etc etc.

And this is no good biddah! 

I guess its also biddah to say biddah is good.

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4 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Well then I guess that the term "biddah" (innovation) is used more vaguely and generally in Sunni School of thought.

Innovation in Religion is something that is all in all a new rule and doesn't aligns with the basic base of laws you're given.

For us praying on clay/mud is base law of Islam. That clay could be from anywhere on Earth. And since Karbala is blessed and has Shifa in its soil, We pray on it. Similarly it has been said to read Quran, which explicitly means to read and understand it. Not to be a dumb sheep. So reading tafseer along with recitation is just as normal with the base law.

But your version of Biddah is more vague.

I tell you what Biddah is - "When you omit something from Adhan and put your own words there". Then it is biddah!!

"When you make Mutah illegal" etc etc.

And this is no good biddah! 

I guess its also biddah to say biddah is good.

Yes. Ibn Taymiyyah got from Twelver shia books that all Bidah Is bad. Now we have Salafism. Just let it go..

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1 minute ago, SunniBrother said:

A act of kufr dont make someone kaffir. Don't be a takfeeri

In our language (poetry), we some times use the word "kafir" to praise the beauty of fragile gender (sinf e nazuk or females). 

Seems to me your linguistic usage of this word is more broader.

 

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9 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

Yes. Ibn Taymiyyah got from Twelver shia books that all Bidah Is bad. Now we have Salafism. Just let it go..

Yes its true that every biddah is bad. But Ibn Taymiyyah failed to understood what is biddah. You know he is a literalist!!

If Prophet (s) din't celebrated his birthday that means we also don't.!! This is so irrational.

The biggest irrationality he thinks is Biddah is Praying on clay.

Come on. 

We can't let it go. We have to refute this illogical thing.

I thought you were a man of logic. You always used logic while answering. The fact that Ibn Taymyah abused the concept of biddah doesn't makes the concept of biddah Illogical. Its true that Biddah is always a bad biddah and you get loads of ahadeeth from Ahlulbayt and Prophet himself on this.

All this "Good Biddah" concept started when Umar came to Caliphate. Not when Prophet was there.

And when you said that - Changing of Qibla was a Biddah ?? Please refrain Please refrain from saying such things by Allah. This was a Law by Allah. An Abrogation of previous Law. Only Allah has this Right to introduce new laws. Because His is the religion and when this happened (changing of Qibla) the Religion wasn't completed yet. It completed on the Day of Ghadeer. So After Ghadeer Religion is "Perfected". No addition and no subtraction!!

 

Whatever Umar did was really bad. Adding words to Adhan, omiting some out of it. Banning Mutah, Tarawih, etc.

You know there is a Hadith in Sahih which says that Prophet strictly prohibited the concept of joint Congregation after Isha in Ramadhan What you say as Tarawih.

Edited by Waseem162

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Abdur Rahman bin Abdul Qari said, "I went out in the company of Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and founf the people praying in different groups- a man praying alone or a man praying with a lottle group behind him. Then Umar said, "In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari(reciter) [i.e. let them pray in congregation]". So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubayy bin Ka'b. Then, on another night, I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that Umar remarked, "What an excellent BID'A (INNOVATION in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but rather sleep at its time, is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night". - Sahi al bukhari, volume 3, book 32 number 227

"It was called BID'AH because the prophet (saw) did not use to pray it in congregation, and neither was it prayed like that in the time of al-siddiq (sunnis first caliph), nor in the early part of night or with these number of units." - al-Qastallani, Irshad al-sari sharh sahi al bukhari, volume 5, page 4 & al-Nawawi, Sharh sahih Muslim, volume 6, page 287

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Taraweeh is bidah because of the following reasons:

(1) It was never offered by Prophet Muhammad in the whole month of Ramazan.

(2) The holy prophet never offered this prayer after the Isha Prayer.

(3) It was never offered in the designated location of the mosque.

(4) Prophet disliked those people who called them for the prayer which he offered for three days in the last part of night before dawn.

(5) Abu Bakar who was authority for Ahle Sunnah, never offered Taraweeh in his life.

(6) Umar ordered to prayer, but never offered the Taraweeh prayer himself in his life.

(7) Umar did not ordered the Taraweeh prayer in his early years of Khalafa. it was 17th year of his khalafa.

(8) Umar never gave the reason of Fear while ordering Taraweeh prayer. He was simply passing by and saw people prayer without a group and than ordered them to pray in congregation. which is not a hujat for muslimeen

(9) Alhe Bait and their imams never offered taraweeh prayer in their life.

(10) Ali and Hassan (AS) condemned this act in Kufa when it was their khalfat time.

(11) Taraweeh prayer is not proved from Sahah Sita books.

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The Prophet (s) said: “O people! Perform your prayers at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is what he performs at his home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer." [sahih al-Bukhari, volume 9, book 92, number 393][al-Nasa’i, Sunan, volume 3, p. 161, p. 198]

Once Abdullah bin Mas’ud asked the Prophet (s): “Which is better; to pray in my house or in the mosque?” The Prophet (s) replied: “Do you not see how near to the mosque my house is? To pray in my house is more beloved to me than to pray in the mosque except for the obligatory prayers.” [ibn Majah, Sunan, volume 1, page 439, number 1378]

Narrated Zayd bin Thabit: Allah's Apostle (s) made a small room (with a palm leaf mat). He (s) came out (of his house) and prayed in it. Some men came and joined him in his prayer. Then again the next night they came for the prayer, but the Prophet (s) delayed and did not come out to them. So they raised their voices and knocked the door with small stones (to draw his attention). He came out to them in a state of anger, saying, “You are still insisting (on your deed) that I fear this prayer might become obligatory on you. So, O you people! offer this prayer at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is the one which he offers at home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer.” [sahih al-Bukhari, volume 8, book 73, number 134]

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And leaving a debate is sunnah. I won't debate further

3 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

The Prophet (s) said: “O people! Perform your prayers at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is what he performs at his home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer." [sahih al-Bukhari, volume 9, book 92, number 393][al-Nasa’i, Sunan, volume 3, p. 161, p. 198]

Once Abdullah bin Mas’ud asked the Prophet (s): “Which is better; to pray in my house or in the mosque?” The Prophet (s) replied: “Do you not see how near to the mosque my house is? To pray in my house is more beloved to me than to pray in the mosque except for the obligatory prayers.” [ibn Majah, Sunan, volume 1, page 439, number 1378]

Narrated Zayd bin Thabit: Allah's Apostle (s) made a small room (with a palm leaf mat). He (s) came out (of his house) and prayed in it. Some men came and joined him in his prayer. Then again the next night they came for the prayer, but the Prophet (s) delayed and did not come out to them. So they raised their voices and knocked the door with small stones (to draw his attention). He came out to them in a state of anger, saying, “You are still insisting (on your deed) that I fear this prayer might become obligatory on you. So, O you people! offer this prayer at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is the one which he offers at home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer.” [sahih al-Bukhari, volume 8, book 73, number 134]

Sunnis have a broad range of opinions on tawarih. As for Bidah, maybe you should read about it before condemning. You can ask Sheikh Wikipedia.

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8 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

And leaving a debate is sunnah. I won't debate further

Sunnis have a broad range of opinions on tawarih. As for Bidah, maybe you should read about it before condemning. You can ask Sheikh Wikipedia.

I told you earlier in the same thread what is the Shia belief on Biddah. Allah is All Wise to put his religion in a perfect sense. One doesn't needs to add or remove something. He has not right to do that.

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2 hours ago, Hassan- said:

Lol, is celebrating one's birthday Bid'ah too?

Birthday is not faith dogma of any religion, it's cultural. Yes salafis believe is bidah from hell. But that's not the position of any Sunni or Shia and not even the Khawarij Ibadis. There's nothing in the Sharia that prohibits urf.

Edited by SunniBrother

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