Shaikh Bahjat [rh]- Rasoolallah [sa] missed fajr.

[AbdusSibtayn]

Assalam alaykum wa Rahmatullahi ta'ala wa Barkatuh,

Eid al- Adha Mubarak!

Dear brothers and sisters,

Browsing through some old threads and websites a few days ago, I came across an interesting opinion of Ayatollah Bahjat [rh. a.] that Rasoolallah[sawa] indeed woke up late and missed his fajr prayers. The late ayatollah's [rh] view was reported by brother @Ibn al-Hussain in the following thread, with references -

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235023669-examining-extremism-and-ghulu-in-islam/?do=findComment&comment=2717421

And the following answer by Shaikh Hadavi Teherani also confirms that the late marja [rh] did indeed hold this opinion -
Is it true that the Messenger of Allah (S) once missed his Dawn Prayers?

Quote

Among the contemporary scholars, as far as we know, Ayatollah Bahjat does not consider these narrations to be opposed to infallibility of the Prophet (S).[16]

In the light of this information, I would like to know what arguments the late ayatollah [rh] forwarded to argue his case, and whether or not he accepted the incident of sahw -an- nabi [sa], given that he has accepted this incident.

jazakallah in advance.

[AbdusSibtayn]

All feedback is welcome, from the late shaikh's muqallideen and other's. I also invite brother @Ibn al-Hussain to contribute to the discussion.

[Qa'im]

This is a part of the sahw debate, which goes back early in our history. Most famously, Saduq in his al-Faqih argued that the sahw of an ordinary person is to his detriment, but the sahw of the Prophet (s) comes from Allah and is therefore good. Its purpose was to teach us a practical fiqh lesson. Mufid disagreed with this, saying that the Prophet was immune from sahw from birth, and that the Imams were immune from it once they became Imams. This sahw of course is only in matters that do not bring shame to the Imam; everything they preached about the religion is correct and protected - that is unanimous.

The strength of Saduq's position (which was supported by Tabarsi as well) is that there are plenty of narrations to back up sahw. The scholars that side with Mufid's position say that those traditions were weak or narrated in taqiyya.

I personally think Saduq's view is stronger, due to the tawatur of these narrations. Sahw in some cases were public events, narrated in Sunni and Shia books, and therefore difficult or unlikely to fabricate. It is difficult for me to see the narrations of the Imams on this issue to be all in taqiyya. For example:

عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن أبان الاحمر عن حمزة بن الطيار، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: اكتب فأملى علي: إن من قولنا إن الله يحتج على العباد بما آتاهم وعرفهم، ثم أرسل إليهم رسولا وأنزل عليهم الكتاب فأمر فيه ونهى، أمر فيه بالصلاة والصيام فنام رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله عن الصلاة فقال: أنا انيمك وأنا اوقظك فإذا قمت فصل ليعلموا إذا أصابهم ذلك كيف يصنعون، ليس كما يقولون: إذا نام عنها هلك وكذلك الصيام أنا امرضك وأنا اصحك فإذا شفيتك فاقضه، ثم قال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: وكذلك إذا نظرت في جميع الاشياء لم تجد أحدا في ضيق ولم تجد أحدا إلا ولله عليه الحجة ولله فيه المشيئة ولا أقول: إنهم ما شاؤوا صنعوا، ثم قال: إن الله يهدي ويضل وقال: وما امروا إلا بدون سعتهم، وكل شئ امر الناس به فهم يسعون له، وكل شئ لا يسعون له فهو موضوع عنهم، ولكن الناس لا خير فيهم ثم تلا عليه السلام: " ليس على الضعفاء ولا على المرضى ولا على الذين لا يجدون ما ينفقون حرج " فوضع عنهم " ما على المحسنين من سبيل والله غفور رحيم * ولا على الذين إذا ما أتوك لتحملهم " قال: فوضع عنهم لانهم لا يجدون.

Several of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Khalid from `Ali b. al-Hakam from Aban al-Ahmar from Hamza b. at-Tayyar from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.

He said: Write. So he dictated to me: From our saying is that Allah obligated the servants by what He has given them and what He has made them recognize. Then, He sent a messenger to them and revealed to them a Book, in which He commanded and prohibited. Therein, he ordered them to perform salat and fast. The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله slept upon salat, so Allah said, “I make you sleep and I make you wake. When you wake up, pray, so that they may learn what to do if that were to happen to them”. It is not the way that they say, “If one slept upon it (i.e. the time of prayer) he is destroyed”. And it is like that with fasting, “I cause you to become ill and I give you good health, so if I gave you health, then compensate for it (i.e. the missed fast)”.

Then, Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said: And it is like that if you look into all things – no one has been constricted, and no one [will be held accountable] except that there is a proof for Allah upon him, and therein is Allah’s wish. And I do not say, “They can do whatever they wish”. He then said: Allah guides and sets astray. And he said: They are not ordered to do what they are not capable of. And the people are capable of doing all of the things that He has ordered them to do. And all things that they are incapable of doing have been exempted from them. However, there is no good in the [disbelieving] people. He عليه السلام then recited: “There is no blame on those who are infirm, or ill, or who find no resources to spend” (9:91) – so He exempted them – “…no ground can there be against such as do right: and Allah is the Forgiving, the Merciful. Nor (is there blame) on those who came to you to be provided with mounts” (9:91-92). He said: So he exempted them because they do not have the means.

 

---

 

(1) The narration is reliable by isnad

(2) The Imam is instructing someone to write a letter, which does not seem like taqiyya. The Imam could've easily said that it was not his letter, as it wasn't in his handwriting.

(3) The Imam is using the sahw to illustrate a grander point; that Allah does not obligate us to do more than we can handle. The Imam could have used a different example to express the same.

 

Allah knows best.

[Sindbad05]

I have a question, that there are certain things which are enjoined upon Ummah and not enjoined upon Prophet PBUHHP. Few of them are as follows:

1. Tahajud is Fard for Prophet PBUHHP but not Fard for Ummah.

2. Sadqa is for Ummah but not for Prophet.

3. More than four wives are for Prophet but not for a male belonging to Ummah.

4. A special type of fast which Prophet used to fast and it is longer than how we fast and it is broken late night and companions asked Prophet PBUHHP that whether they could observe such fast or not but Prophet PBUHHP said no you cannot fast it because you are not like me and I am provided food at night.

The matter of sahw is not for Prophets or Imams like other Ahkam but it is for Ummah. 

[Sindbad05]

Nevertheless, I will not believe such thing by brother ibn Hussain unless I hear it directly from Ayotullah Taqi Bahjat or read in a book written by him and published by his following responsible authorities. 

[Sindbad05]

56 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

Allah guides and sets astray.

Above is sufficient I believe

Edited September 5, 2017 by Sindbad05

[Ibn al-Hussain]

@AbdusSibtayn - wow this brought back a lot of memories :). I don't recall reading Ayatullah Behjat's "reasoning" for accepting the incident of missing Fajr, and if I were to take a guess, he probably did not accept the incident of Sahw al-Nabi (but I haven't read anything from him on the latter topic).

This is a topic that I have spent much time (easily a few years) reading, thinking, discussing and debating about. I would have loved to explain why I believe these events took place, but unfortunately the quality of discussion here is mostly polemical rather than academic. When discussions are polemical, people make a lot of presumptions in their arguments that they are taking for granted, because they have been brought up to believe them, or they are popular, mainstream and famous amongst a circle of scholars. All these reasons may be good enough for the laymen or to maintain a general ideology or framework for arguing for something amongst the masses and I am not totally against it, however that also means I cannot engage in a technical discussion of my reasoning and this is not a topic I care for to engage in any further. Frankly, I've also reached a point where I have read and heard all counter-arguments that are repeated over and over again - and I am not convinced of them - and unless someone is going to bring something new to the table, I am not willing to waste my time on the topic.

The basis of accepting or rejecting such an event will obviously boil down to one's overall understanding and conclusion on the topics of 'ismah, God's Wisdom, Husn wa Qubh 'Aqli/Dhaati, how you deal with the contradiction of 'Aql vs. Naql and possibly many other premises.

Wasalam

[Ron_Burgundy]

This is what i found from a sunni guy

The two sheikhs mentioned 1 that Abu Hurayra had said: "We travelled in the night with the Prophet (s) and slept at a late time.

 

1. This quoted from muslim's Sahih, vol. 1, p.p. 254.

We didn't wake up until the sun rose. The Prophet (s) said: "Let every one lead his sumpter and move from here. It is a place attended by the Satan." We did. Then he asked for some water to do wudu'. 1 He did two prostrations then he offered the prayer in the morning."

The guidance of the prophet Muhammad (s) was far above such a tradition. Allah said: (O you, who have wrapped up in your garments! Rise to pray in the night except a little, half of it or lessen it a little or add to it and recite the Qur'an as it ought to be recited) 73:1-4 (Quran) until He said: (Surely your Lord knows that you pass in prayer nearly two?thirds of the night, and (sometimes) half of it) 73:20 (Quran). Allah addressed the Prophet in another saying: (Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed. And during a part of the night, pray Tahajjud beyond what is incumbent on you; maybe your Lord will raise you to a position of great glory) 17:78-79 (Quran). Allah asked the Prophet to pray in the night moreover than the five prayers, which were obligatory for all of the Muslims, while the night prayer (nafila) was obligatory for the Prophet alone. Allah said: (And rely on the Mighty, the Merciful, who sees you when you stand up and your turning over and over among those who prostrate themselves before Allah) 26:17-19 (Quran). It did mean that Allah saw you when you stood up to worship Him in the night when there was no one seeing you except Him and saw your doings among the believers when you led them in offering the prayers. Also Allah said addressing him: (andsing the praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before the setting and glorify Him in the night and after the prayers) 50:39-40 (Quran).
 

1. Ritual ablution as prerequisite to offer the prayer.2. Allah made this verse to show the time of the prayers.Zuhr(noon)and Asr (afternoon) prayers participated in the time from the noon untill the sunset but the Zuhr prayer was to be before the Asr prayer. The Maghrib (sunset) and Isha' (night)prayers participated in the time from the sunset untill the darkness of the night but the Maghrib prayer was to be before the Isha' prayer. Allah also mentioned the Fajr (dawn) prayer in the verse to declare that these prayers were obligatory and to declare the time of offering them.

He offered prayers all the night and he hanged his chest with a rope in order not to feel sleepy . He kept on standing up, sitting and prostrating until his feet swelled . Then Gabriel said to him (from Allah): "Take care of yourself. It has to be cared by you." Then he revealed to him: (Ta Ha. We have not revealed the Qur'an to you that you may be unhappy. Nay, it is a reminder to him who fears) 20:1-3 (Quran). The verse meant that: We didn't reveal to you the holy Qur'an in order to tire yourself with worshipping, but we revealed it to be a reminder to him, who fears Allah. So take care of yourself and don't burden yourself with more than you can bear.

 

Al-Bukhari assigned particular chapters in his Sahih for the Prophet's night prayer, his long prostration in the night prayer and his standing until his legs swelled and his feet chapped.

 

Thus he accustomed himself to do in the night. How about the five obligatory prayers, which were one of the bases, upon which Islam was based? Would he sleep and miss the prayer? Allah forbid! And it was far away from the Prophet, who recited to the people: (Attend constantly to prayers and to the middle prayer and stand up truly obedient to Allah) 2:238 (Quran) and he incited people: (Successful indeed are the believers, who are humble in their prayers) 23:1-2 and described the believers: (And those who keep a guard on their prayers; these are they who are the heirs, who shall inherit the Paradise; they shall abide therein) 23:9-11 (Quran) and called out to people: (keep up prayer; surely prayer is a timed ordinance for the believers) 4:103 (Quran) and made all people hear: (He indeed shall be successful who purifies himself and magnifies the name of his Lord and prays)  87:14-15 (Quran).
 

The holy Qur'an is full of verses like these that the Prophet taught people their maxims and good sermons. How many times the Prophet did [Edited Out] the inattentive by: (Woe to the praying ones, who are unmindful of their prayers, who do (good) to be seen) 107:4-6 (Quran) and exposed the hypocrites when Allah revealed to him about their characters: (and they do not come to prayer but while they are sluggish, and they do not spend but while they are unwilling) 9:54 (Quran) and he criticised someone, who slept and didn't offer the night prayer until the morning came, by saying: "The Satan made water in his ear." 1

 

What a metaphor it was about those, who accustomed themselves to sleep without offering the night prayer and what a rhetoric it was from (an honored messenger, The processor of strength, having an honorable place with the Lord of the Dominion, one (to be) obeyed, and faithful in trust).

 

What a hard word it was, which would make the believers worry and never sleep without offering the night prayer if they thought right of themselves. The pious and the obscene, the believer and unbeliever knew and witnessed that the prophet Muhammad (s) was the first who carried out his principles and was the best worshipper, who kept on his principles sincerely. He educated his umma by his deeds more than his sayings. He wouldn't criticise that, who slept without offering the night prayer so hardly, if he himself slept in front of his companions and missed the Fajr prayer. Glory be to Allah! What a great slander it was!

Abu Hurayra himself narrated 2 that the Prophet (s) had said: "The Satan ties three knots upon the nape of every one of you when he sleeps. If he wakes up and mentions Allah, one knot will open. If he makes wudu', the second knot will open and if he offers the prayer the third knot will open. Then he will be active and in good spirits, otherwise he will be lazy and in bad spirits."

 

This tradition had a rhetorical metaphor like the previous one. The Prophet (s) wanted to warn his umma from the Satan and to incite them to obey Allah. If Abu Hurayra was true in this tradition, he must be a liar when he told that tradition of the Prophet's sleeping and missing the Fajr prayer.

1. Refer to al-Bukhari's Sahih, vol 1, p.p. 136.2. Refer to al-Bukhari's Sahih, vol. 1, p.p. 136. What a strange of al-Bukhari it was that he mentioned this tradition in his book as well as the tradition in his book as well as the tradition talking about the sleeping of the Prophet and missing the prayer!Also refer to Ahmed's Musnad, vol. 2. p.p. 153.

Abu Hurayra narrated that the Prophet had said: "No prayer is heavier for the hypocrites than the prayers of Fajr and Isha'. If they know what these two prayers have, they will come to offer them even creepingly. I was about to order the caller of azan to say the iqama 1 and then to order a man to lead people in prayer and I would take a torch to threaten with fire whoever didn't come to offer the prayer yet."

The Prophet (s) urged people to offer the prayers, paid much attention to the Fajr prayer and threatened those, who didn't come to offer the prayer, by burning them with fire. After all that, was it believable that he himself slept and didn't offer the prayer? Certainly not!

Allah might have mercy upon Abdullah bin Rawaha, the martyred companion, when he said: 2

 

"Among us was the Prophet, Reciting the holy book when the dawn began to send its rays.

 

He made us see the guidance after our blindness, so our hearts faithed in him that whatever he said would happen.

 

He spent the night away from his bed, while the others were in a deep sleep."

 

Let us go back to the tradition to state what remained to refute it.

 

Firstly: they (the jurisprudents and the authors of books of Hadith) said that the Prophet's heart (senses) didn't sleep even when his eyes were sleeping. Their Sahihs declared that clearly. 3

 

This was one of the signs of the prophecy and Islam; therefore it was not probable for him to sleep and missed the Fajr prayer, because if his eyes slept, his heart would be attentive, especially to his god. Nothing of sleeping would make him inattentive to his duties. Once 

1. Specified wordings to be said after the azan as a forepart for the prayer.
2. Refer to al-Bukhari's Sahjih, vol. 1, p.p. 138.
3. Refer to al-Bukhari's Sahih, vol. 1, p.p. 179.

he offered the night prayer and went to sleep before he offered the witr 1 prayer. One of his wives said to him: "O messenger of Allah, do you sleep before you offer the witr prayer?" He said: "My eyes sleep but my heart doesn't sleep." 2 He meant that he was certain he would not miss the witr prayer because he was fond of it and his heart was attentive to it even his eyes were sleeping. If he was so with the witr prayer, how about him when he slept before the Fajr prayer?

Secondly: Abu Hurayra declared, as mentioned by Muslim in his Sahih, 3 that this event happened to the Prophet during his return from the battle of Khaybar. How did Abu Hurayra pretend that he was with the Prophet then? Abu Hurayra became a Muslim after this battle as the historians mentioned unanimously. 4

Thirdly: Abu Hurayra said in the tradition: (The Prophet said: "Let every one of you lead his sumpter. This is a place attended by the Satan." We did so).

It was well-known that the Satan didn't near to the Prophet (s) and all people knew well, too, that Abu Hurayra was very poor and didn't have anything to satiate his hungry stomach with, so wherefrom did he get a sumpter to lead away as he said: we did so?

1. One of night prayers. 

2. Refer to al-Bukhari's Sahih, vol. 2, p.p. 179 and Ahmed's Musnad, vol. 2, p.p. 251.

                     3.Sahih Muslim
 

                     4  vol. 1, p.p. 254.

5. Abu Hurayra said in the last days of his life:"I and a few of my tribe came to Medina toconfess our Islam where the Prophet had left to khaybar and appointed Siba' bin Arafat al-Ghifari as his successor in Medina.We offered fajr prayer with him.He supplied us with some food and money.We set out untill we came to the Prophet where he conquered Khaybar. The Prophet talked to muslims to perticipate us with their shares."This tradition was not narrated by any true one except Abu Hurayra but the public (the sunnis) depended upon it, as they always did with Abu Hurayra's traditions,anmd confirmed Abu Hurayra's attendance at Khaybar with the Prophet without any true evidence.According to our infallible imams,Abu Hurayra came and became a Muslim after the return of the Prophet from khaybar.

Fourthly: Abu Hurayra said: ".. .then the Prophet asked for some water to do wudu'. He prostrated twice and then offered the Morning Prayer."

The Prophet offered Morning Prayer to compensate the Fajr prayer, which was missed (according to Abu Hurayra), but we didn't know the two prostrations the Prophet did what fore and what they were! An-Nawawi skipped them when he explained this tradition.

Fifthly: It was normal for the armies and leaders to have guards to ward them when they wanted to sleep, especially if there was a king or some one important among them. As for the Prophet, he had many enemies. There were many hypocrites within his army, who were awaiting to wreak themselves upon the Prophet. The Prophet (s) would not differ from the leaders to safekeep himself and his army. He wouldn't sleep, with his companions, in that desert surrounded by his enemies of the polytheists and the recusant Jews, unless there were guards to ward them. Would he pay no attention to this important matter, where he was the master of the wise men before being the master of the prophets? So were the guards sleeping, too as the callers for azan were? Certainly not! But it was the liars, whom the Prophet (s) had warned against!

Sixthly: At that night, the Prophet was with an army of one thousand and six hundred men; among them were two hundred knights. It was not possible that all of them were sleeping and no one of them woke up at all. Let suppose that they didn't wake up by themselves, weren't they woken up by the neighing and noise of beating the ground by hoofs of two hundred horses wanting their fodder at time in the morning? What torpor the all were in, men and horses! It might be one of Abu Hurayra's miracles.

[Ron_Burgundy]

54 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

More than four wives are for Prophet but not for a male belonging to Ummah.

You can't have more than 4 wives at same time but i think you could marry as many as you want. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Ron_Burgundy

[Sindbad05]

51 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

You can't have more than 4 wives at same time but i think you could marry as many as you want. 

Yeah, but Prophet PBUHHP could have more than 4 wives at one time and I am not permitted to do so. 

[Ron_Burgundy]

Just now, Sindbad05 said:

Yeah, but Prophet PBUHHP could have more than 4 wives at one time and I am not permitted to do so. 

And can't afford as well. 

[Sindbad05]

Just now, Ron_Burgundy said:

And can't afford as well. 

hahahahahaha, that is now funny. May be many of the married people consider one wife to be too much as the experience suggests. I think that no any just person would marry more than one except if he feels for the widows. 

[Sindbad05]

1 hour ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Fifthly: It was normal for the armies and leaders to have guards to ward them when they wanted to sleep, especially if there was a king or some one important among them. As for the Prophet, he had many enemies. There were many hypocrites within his army, who were awaiting to wreak themselves upon the Prophet. The Prophet (s) would not differ from the leaders to safekeep himself and his army. He wouldn't sleep, with his companions, in that desert surrounded by his enemies of the polytheists and the recusant Jews, unless there were guards to ward them. Would he pay no attention to this important matter, where he was the master of the wise men before being the master of the prophets? So were the guards sleeping, too as the callers for azan were? Certainly not! But it was the liars, whom the Prophet (s) had warned against!

Sixthly: At that night, the Prophet was with an army of one thousand and six hundred men; among them were two hundred knights. It was not possible that all of them were sleeping and no one of them woke up at all. Let suppose that they didn't wake up by themselves, weren't they woken up by the neighing and noise of beating the ground by hoofs of two hundred horses wanting their fodder at time in the morning? What torpor the all were in, men and horses! It might be one of Abu Hurayra's miracles.

Agree with you, In that regard, I narrate a tradition that once Prophet PBUHHP said: "I sleep but my heart is awake". Secondly, there are traditions that Prophet PBUHHP could look at his back like people look at front. Miraculous personality. Ayotullah Taqi Bahjat could not say such a thing. 

[Sumerian]

@Qa'im I believe that Saduq and others who believed in sahw believed that sahw is possible in and of itself, not just because of "Divine intervention for a purpose".

[Qa'im]

3 hours ago, E.L King said:

 I believe that Saduq and others who believed in sahw believed that sahw is possible in and of itself, not just because of "Divine intervention for a purpose".

From Man La Yahduruhul Faqih:

وليس سهو النبي (ص) كسهونا لأنه سهو من الله عز وجل ، وإنما أسهاه ليعلم أنه بشر مخلوق فلا يتخذ ربا معبودا دونه ، وليعلم الناس بسهوه حكم السهو متى سهوا ، وسهونا من الشيطان ، وليس للشيطان على النبي (ص) والأئمة صلوات الله عليهم سلطان إنما سلطانه على الذين يتولونه والذين هم به مشركون وعلى من تبعه من الغاوين

The sahw of the Prophet is not like our sahw, for it is a sahw from Allah. He only caused him sahw so that it may be known that he is a created human, so that he may not be taken as a worshiped lord besides Him. Our sahw is from Satan, but Satan does not have any power upon the Prophet (s) or the Imams (as). His power is only upon those who follow him, associate him with Allah, and deviate.

[Sumerian]

1 hour ago, Qa'im said:

From Man La Yahduruhul Faqih:

وليس سهو النبي (ص) كسهونا لأنه سهو من الله عز وجل ، وإنما أسهاه ليعلم أنه بشر مخلوق فلا يتخذ ربا معبودا دونه ، وليعلم الناس بسهوه حكم السهو متى سهوا ، وسهونا من الشيطان ، وليس للشيطان على النبي (ص) والأئمة صلوات الله عليهم سلطان إنما سلطانه على الذين يتولونه والذين هم به مشركون وعلى من تبعه من الغاوين

The sahw of the Prophet is not like our sahw, for it is a sahw from Allah. He only caused him sahw so that it may be known that he is a created human, so that he may not be taken as a worshiped lord besides Him. Our sahw is from Satan, but Satan does not have any power upon the Prophet (s) or the Imams (as). His power is only upon those who follow him, associate him with Allah, and deviate.

It seems Shaykh Al-Tabarsi generalised it though:

وأما النسيان والسهو فلم يجوزوهما عليهم فيما يؤدونه عن الله تعالى ، وأما ما سواه فقد جوزوا عليهم أن ينسوه أو يسهو عنه مالم يؤدي ذلك إلى الاخلال بالعقل

[AbdusSibtayn]

18 hours ago, Qa'im said:

This is a part of the sahw debate, which goes back early in our history. Most famously, Saduq in his al-Faqih argued that the sahw of an ordinary person is to his detriment, but the sahw of the Prophet (s) comes from Allah and is therefore good. Its purpose was to teach us a practical fiqh lesson. Mufid disagreed with this, saying that the Prophet was immune from sahw from birth, and that the Imams were immune from it once they became Imams. This sahw of course is only in matters that do not bring shame to the Imam; everything they preached about the religion is correct and protected - that is unanimous.

The strength of Saduq's position (which was supported by Tabarsi as well) is that there are plenty of narrations to back up sahw. The scholars that side with Mufid's position say that those traditions were weak or narrated in taqiyya.

I personally think Saduq's view is stronger, due to the tawatur of these narrations. Sahw in some cases were public events, narrated in Sunni and Shia books, and therefore difficult or unlikely to fabricate. It is difficult for me to see the narrations of the Imams on this issue to be all in taqiyya. For example:

عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن أبان الاحمر عن حمزة بن الطيار، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: اكتب فأملى علي: إن من قولنا إن الله يحتج على العباد بما آتاهم وعرفهم، ثم أرسل إليهم رسولا وأنزل عليهم الكتاب فأمر فيه ونهى، أمر فيه بالصلاة والصيام فنام رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله عن الصلاة فقال: أنا انيمك وأنا اوقظك فإذا قمت فصل ليعلموا إذا أصابهم ذلك كيف يصنعون، ليس كما يقولون: إذا نام عنها هلك وكذلك الصيام أنا امرضك وأنا اصحك فإذا شفيتك فاقضه، ثم قال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: وكذلك إذا نظرت في جميع الاشياء لم تجد أحدا في ضيق ولم تجد أحدا إلا ولله عليه الحجة ولله فيه المشيئة ولا أقول: إنهم ما شاؤوا صنعوا، ثم قال: إن الله يهدي ويضل وقال: وما امروا إلا بدون سعتهم، وكل شئ امر الناس به فهم يسعون له، وكل شئ لا يسعون له فهو موضوع عنهم، ولكن الناس لا خير فيهم ثم تلا عليه السلام: " ليس على الضعفاء ولا على المرضى ولا على الذين لا يجدون ما ينفقون حرج " فوضع عنهم " ما على المحسنين من سبيل والله غفور رحيم * ولا على الذين إذا ما أتوك لتحملهم " قال: فوضع عنهم لانهم لا يجدون.

Several of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Khalid from `Ali b. al-Hakam from Aban al-Ahmar from Hamza b. at-Tayyar from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.

He said: Write. So he dictated to me: From our saying is that Allah obligated the servants by what He has given them and what He has made them recognize. Then, He sent a messenger to them and revealed to them a Book, in which He commanded and prohibited. Therein, he ordered them to perform salat and fast. The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله slept upon salat, so Allah said, “I make you sleep and I make you wake. When you wake up, pray, so that they may learn what to do if that were to happen to them”. It is not the way that they say, “If one slept upon it (i.e. the time of prayer) he is destroyed”. And it is like that with fasting, “I cause you to become ill and I give you good health, so if I gave you health, then compensate for it (i.e. the missed fast)”.

Then, Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said: And it is like that if you look into all things – no one has been constricted, and no one [will be held accountable] except that there is a proof for Allah upon him, and therein is Allah’s wish. And I do not say, “They can do whatever they wish”. He then said: Allah guides and sets astray. And he said: They are not ordered to do what they are not capable of. And the people are capable of doing all of the things that He has ordered them to do. And all things that they are incapable of doing have been exempted from them. However, there is no good in the [disbelieving] people. He عليه السلام then recited: “There is no blame on those who are infirm, or ill, or who find no resources to spend” (9:91) – so He exempted them – “…no ground can there be against such as do right: and Allah is the Forgiving, the Merciful. Nor (is there blame) on those who came to you to be provided with mounts” (9:91-92). He said: So he exempted them because they do not have the means.

 

---

 

(1) The narration is reliable by isnad

(2) The Imam is instructing someone to write a letter, which does not seem like taqiyya. The Imam could've easily said that it was not his letter, as it wasn't in his handwriting.

(3) The Imam is using the sahw to illustrate a grander point; that Allah does not obligate us to do more than we can handle. The Imam could have used a different example to express the same.

 

Allah knows best.

Thank you once again, brother! I can see the point very well. Thanks for putting in all that effort to explain it to me !!

 

17 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

@AbdusSibtayn - wow this brought back a lot of memories :). I don't recall reading Ayatullah Behjat's "reasoning" for accepting the incident of missing Fajr, and if I were to take a guess, he probably did not accept the incident of Sahw al-Nabi (but I haven't read anything from him on the latter topic).

This is a topic that I have spent much time (easily a few years) reading, thinking, discussing and debating about. I would have loved to explain why I believe these events took place, but unfortunately the quality of discussion here is mostly polemical rather than academic. When discussions are polemical, people make a lot of presumptions in their arguments that they are taking for granted, because they have been brought up to believe them, or they are popular, mainstream and famous amongst a circle of scholars. All these reasons may be good enough for the laymen or to maintain a general ideology or framework for arguing for something amongst the masses and I am not totally against it, however that also means I cannot engage in a technical discussion of my reasoning and this is not a topic I care for to engage in any further. Frankly, I've also reached a point where I have read and heard all counter-arguments that are repeated over and over again - and I am not convinced of them - and unless someone is going to bring something new to the table, I am not willing to waste my time on the topic.

The basis of accepting or rejecting such an event will obviously boil down to one's overall understanding and conclusion on the topics of 'ismah, God's Wisdom, Husn wa Qubh 'Aqli/Dhaati, how you deal with the contradiction of 'Aql vs. Naql and possibly many other premises.

Wasalam

Ah! I see your standpoint, brother. I am (much to your relief ), however, not here to debate. I have come with a tabula rasa to learn something new. I have gone through that debate and have already seen that it has taxed your patience quite a bit, lol !! Thanks for the information anyways ! I am not going to ask you to explain it all over again!

Brothers @Ron_Burgundy @Sindbad05 and @E.L King, thanks for responding! I too have gone through the various reports and refutations of this incident.

[Sumerian]

@Qa'im now although the question goes into detail about whether Divine intervention was the cause, Sayyed Al-Khoei provided what I see as a general answer as well:

الخوئي: القدر المتيقن من السهو الممنوع على المعصوم هو السهو في غير الموضوعات الخارجية، والله العالم.

[Ibn al-Hussain]

2 hours ago, E.L King said:

Sayyed Al-Khoei provided what I see as a general answer as well:

الخوئي: القدر المتيقن من السهو الممنوع على المعصوم هو السهو في غير الموضوعات الخارجية، والله العالم.

The response of Sayyid Khoei can also be expanded to the case of the knowledge of the Imams (s) and the Prophet (p) - for those who accept the notion of 'ilm al-ghayb for them - then whether this 'ilm al-ghayb also applied to Mawdhu'at or not (many say that it doesn't and they had no knowledge of the ghayb when it came to Mawdhu'at).

Wasalam

[Ron_Burgundy]

19 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Miraculous personality. Ayotullah Taqi Bahjat could not say such a thing. 

Even if he did say. its his opinion. 

[Islamic Salvation]

Even Mufid (a figure much quoted in these arguments) did not raise any objection against the prophet missing Subh Salat because of sleep (as has come in hadith) and accepted the possibility of that happening in rational terms.

He only took issue with Sahw of the prophet in the incident where he is supposed to have prayed two instead of four, arguing that sleeping and forgetting should be seen as different categories. 

The two (Nisyan and Nawm) should not be conflated.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Islamic Salvation

[Sindbad05]

4 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Even if he did say. its his opinion. 

Do not say a thing, which you have not seen Ron. There were many lies imposed upon Ayotullah Khomeini.

[Ron_Burgundy]

4 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Do not say a thing, which you have not seen Ron. There were many lies imposed upon Ayotullah Khomeini.

People do that all the time. Prophet missing a prayer just doesn't make sense to me. 

[Qa'im]

1 hour ago, Islamic Salvation said:

Even Mufid (a figure much quoted in these arguments) did not raise any objection against the prophet missing Subh Salat because of sleep (as has come in hadith) and accepted the possibility of that happening in rational terms.

He only took issue with Sahw of the prophet in the incident where he is supposed to have prayed two instead of four, arguing that sleeping and forgetting should be seen as different categories. 

The two (Nisyan and Nawm) should not be conflated.

Thank you for this brother.

[Sindbad05]

2 hours ago, Islamic Salvation said:

Even Mufid (a figure much quoted in these arguments) did not raise any objection against the prophet missing Subh Salat because of sleep (as has come in hadith) and accepted the possibility of that happening in rational terms.

He only took issue with Sahw of the prophet in the incident where he is supposed to have prayed two instead of four, arguing that sleeping and forgetting should be seen as different categories. 

The two (Nisyan and Nawm) should not be conflated.

Even Nisyan does not go near Prophet PBUHHP because it is what Quran says: "He does not say but what is revealed to him". 

[AbdusSibtayn]

On 06/09/2017 at 7:56 PM, Sindbad05 said:

Do not say a thing, which you have not seen Ron. There were many lies imposed upon Ayotullah Khomeini.

He did indeed accept it, as have some of our pillar scholars like al-Mufid [rh] and Majlisi [rh]. The second link I have posted is from his own student, Shaykh Hadavi Tehrani [ha], who quotes from the late marja [ha]'s book 'al-Faqih'. My intent, however, is not to get into the sahw debate, I just wanted to know more details regarding the late shaikh's [rh] opinion on this.

 

 

On 06/09/2017 at 7:51 PM, Islamic Salvation said:

Even Mufid (a figure much quoted in these arguments) did not raise any objection against the prophet missing Subh Salat because of sleep (as has come in hadith) and accepted the possibility of that happening in rational terms.

He only took issue with Sahw of the prophet in the incident where he is supposed to have prayed two instead of four, arguing that sleeping and forgetting should be seen as different categories. 

The two (Nisyan and Nawm) should not be conflated.

Thanks brother @Islamic Salvation !

Edited September 9, 2017 by AbdusSibtayn

[In Gods Name]

The Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) forgot he prayed two instead of four, and Allah permitted this to happen.

He also overslept for Salah.

However he publicly corrected it.

<>

Unfortunately, Shaykh Mufid erred here and ignored the mass transmissions. 

Edited February 17 by In Gods Name