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SunniBrother

Who is a Sunni

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2 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

Ahl Al Bayt - We have plenty of scholars who are from the Ahl Al Bayt such as Muhammad Al Yaqoubi, Habib Umar, among others.

This is new to me. So, can you tell me who elevated these scholars to be from Ahlulbait.? 

2 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

The only ones denying that are wahhabis

We also do not believe the scholars mentioned above members of Ahlulbait (ams). 

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32 minutes ago, AfricanShia said:

I have a question. How can you guys truly live a pious and halal life if you dont believe in modern day mujtaheed?

Why would we need? The biggest source of fitnah among sunnis is ijtihad being promoted among unqualified people in the deobandi and salafi circle.

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I reckon Sunni scholars need to come out and educate the youth on the difference between a Sunni and Salafi.

I can imagine over time, Salafism will be dominant. I am glad that Salafis don't associate with us Shias.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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7 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

This is new to me. So, can you tell me who elevated these scholars to be from Ahlulbait.? 

We also do not believe the scholars mentioned above members of Ahlulbait (ams). 

 

7 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

This is new to me. So, can you tell me who elevated these scholars to be from Ahlulbait.? 

We also do not believe the scholars mentioned above members of Ahlulbait (ams). 

They have various documents and other ulemas attesting their lineage. Sayyid Habib Umar is from the ba'alawi sada family which are well know sayyids (Including Sheikh Al-Jifri is one also), they even trace their lineage through Imam Ja'afar (r.a). The tariqa ba'alawi have close ties with this family of sayyids.

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2 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

I saw here that there's a growing confusion regarding who is Sunni and who is not. Although I will be called a deviant by some so called 'sunnis' here I will write this nonetheless. Just a reminder that I will be posting the opinion of the people of majority - Ahl al Sunnah Whal Jammah and I wont reply to any attack or accusation from some of these so called 'sunnis' here.

Aqeedah - Sunnis follow 2 schools of theology with 2 more basic forms of aqeedah - The schools are Ashari and Maturudi school and the basic aqeedahs are Tahawi and Athari. We condemn Athari views associated with Ibn Taymiyyah ever since he was alive, we recognize that he commited many acts of Kufr regarding aqeedah.

Madhabs - We follow four madhabs: Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali.

Sufism - We don't regard Sufism a deviation, but tawwasuf is a science of Islam. There are a few tariqas that are widely spread that are part of sunni Islam such as Naqshbandi, Shadhili, Qadiri, Ba'alawi, among others.

Imam Ahmad Rida Khan - We recognize the lofty scholar Ahmad Rida through his works and writings, love for him is a sign of the people of the prophetic way (sunnah) and enmity for him is a sign of the people of bidah. With that spoken, the vast majority of 'barelvis' in the subcontinent are regarded as Ahl al sunnah whal Jammah no matter how much some deviants yap about it.

Prophet (s.a.w.s) - We believe that Muhammad (s.a.w.s) was the perfect man, made of noor and that he is 'alive' in his grave. We believe that Muhammad (s.a.w.s) is the master of all creation and that he predates the creation of the world by Qadr.

Yazidi (l.a) - Praising Yazidi (l.a) is a sign of deviation and we are allowed to send lamat towards him. The wahhabis praising Yazidi (l.a) is a clear sign of their deviation.

Ahl Al Bayt - We have plenty of scholars who are from the Ahl Al Bayt such as Muhammad Al Yaqoubi, Habib Umar, among others. The only ones denying that are wahhabis and they usually spout their venom towards the Ahl al Bayt while screaming "Bidah, Shirk, Kufr, Sufi this Sufi that." Love for the Ahl Al Bayt is a sign of ishan.

We believe in Saints (Awliya)

We don't believe that saying "Ya Ali, Ya Muhammad, Ya Hussein" is shirk.

Main difference with salafis - Salafis believe that the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s) Was a normal human being and that he did mistakes. This is kufr.

Deobandis hold various views but majority of them are not considered Ahl al Sunnah Whal Jammah.

There are many forms of salafism but there are some ways to spot them - Majority of them don't follow a madhab, majority of them are Hanbalis in Fiqh but not aqeedah, they love Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab Najdi and Al Albani. They blind follow of Ibn Taymiyyah. Their scholars are reduced to Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Qayyum, Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab Najdi, Al Albani, Ibn Uthaymeen, you'll often find in their writings this repeating names. Islam have 1400 years of tradition and is a absurd to believe that it only produced in 1400 years just this scholars.

Ibn Taymiyyah - Ahl al Sunnah believe he was a scholar of this Ummah but that he committed many acts of kufr. He was a great jurist nevertheless. We have reports that he may have died a Ashari, that is why we don't takfeer him. But if someone accuse the 'scholars' that I named up there of being kaffirs I will keep my mouth shut.

Definitely there are some differences between shia and sunni. 

We shia's too believe in Awlias. And dissociate ourself from teaching of ibne Taymiyyah and wahhabi . Regarding sufism there are many shia scholars who praise the sofi understanding of Islam and say that irfan taught by shia muslims have common bases and teaching as of sufism. 

 

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1 minute ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I reckon Sunni scholars need to come out and educate the youth on the difference between Ahl Al Sunnah and Salafi.

I can imagine over time, Salafism will be dominant. I am glad Salafis don't associate themselves with us Shias.

 

 

We do, is just that salafis are brainwashed to believe that everything related to sufis are bad. So they discarded 95% of Sunni traditional scholarship. Included there was Sunni conference in Grozny that declared the Salafis out of the Ahl al Sunnah. They have more money and hold more political power. Aside from that majority of ahl al sunnah can be found in the west, asia, eurasia, north africa. Aside the numerous fatwas and refutations we have, they (salafis) just make more noise.

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3 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

I saw here that there's a growing confusion regarding who is Sunni and who is not. Although I will be called a deviant by some so called 'sunnis' here I will write this nonetheless. Just a reminder that I will be posting the opinion of the people of majority - Ahl al Sunnah Whal Jammah and I wont reply to any attack or accusation from some of these so called 'sunnis' here.

Aqeedah - Sunnis follow 2 schools of theology with 2 more basic forms of aqeedah - The schools are Ashari and Maturudi school and the basic aqeedahs are Tahawi and Athari. We condemn Athari views associated with Ibn Taymiyyah ever since he was alive, we recognize that he commited many acts of Kufr regarding aqeedah.

Madhabs - We follow four madhabs: Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali.

Sufism - We don't regard Sufism a deviation, but tawwasuf is a science of Islam. There are a few tariqas that are widely spread that are part of sunni Islam such as Naqshbandi, Shadhili, Qadiri, Ba'alawi, among others.

Imam Ahmad Rida Khan - We recognize the lofty scholar Ahmad Rida through his works and writings, love for him is a sign of the people of the prophetic way (sunnah) and enmity for him is a sign of the people of bidah. With that spoken, the vast majority of 'barelvis' in the subcontinent are regarded as Ahl al sunnah whal Jammah no matter how much some deviants yap about it.

Prophet (s.a.w.s) - We believe that Muhammad (s.a.w.s) was the perfect man, made of noor and that he is 'alive' in his grave. We believe that Muhammad (s.a.w.s) is the master of all creation and that he predates the creation of the world by Qadr.

Yazidi (l.a) - Praising Yazidi (l.a) is a sign of deviation and we are allowed to send lamat towards him. The wahhabis praising Yazidi (l.a) is a clear sign of their deviation.

Ahl Al Bayt - We have plenty of scholars who are from the Ahl Al Bayt such as Muhammad Al Yaqoubi, Habib Umar, among others. The only ones denying that are wahhabis and they usually spout their venom towards the Ahl al Bayt while screaming "Bidah, Shirk, Kufr, Sufi this Sufi that." Love for the Ahl Al Bayt is a sign of ishan.

We believe in Saints (Awliya)

We don't believe that saying "Ya Ali, Ya Muhammad, Ya Hussein" is shirk.

Main difference with salafis - Salafis believe that the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s) Was a normal human being and that he did mistakes. This is kufr.

Deobandis hold various views but majority of them are not considered Ahl al Sunnah Whal Jammah.

There are many forms of salafism but there are some ways to spot them - Majority of them don't follow a madhab, majority of them are Hanbalis in Fiqh but not aqeedah, they love Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab Najdi and Al Albani. They blind follow of Ibn Taymiyyah. Their scholars are reduced to Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Qayyum, Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab Najdi, Al Albani, Ibn Uthaymeen, you'll often find in their writings this repeating names. Islam have 1400 years of tradition and is a absurd to believe that it only produced in 1400 years just this scholars.

Ibn Taymiyyah - Ahl al Sunnah believe he was a scholar of this Ummah but that he committed many acts of kufr. He was a great jurist nevertheless. We have reports that he may have died a Ashari, that is why we don't takfeer him. But if someone accuse the 'scholars' that I named up there of being kaffirs I will keep my mouth shut.

Who are Ahlulbayt for you ? Do you consider sometimes follow the 12 Imams instead of your own scholars ?

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5 minutes ago, M.IB said:

Who are Ahlulbayt for you ? Do you consider sometimes follow the 12 Imams instead of your own scholars ?

For me the Ahl al Bayt are the descendents of Ali (r.a) and Fatima (r.a). We do recognize Imam Ja'afar (r.a) and other imams. In regard to following them we do follow them. In regard to the Imam Mahdi there isn't a consensus about him but majority opinion is that he is not born yet. In regard in loving the Ahl Al Bayt we are required to love them. Hatred of them normally is associated with the people who will side with the Dajjal at the end times.

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1 minute ago, baqar said:

I think Sunnis made the mistake of regarding Salafis as Sunnis.

But Salafis are not Sunnis at all. 

We don't regard them as Sunnis. They themselves claim to be Sunnis and this were the confusion arrives. Now if they are Muslims or not is other topic, some say they are Muslims but bidah holders, some outright call them kaffirs, satanic cult, distortion of Islam, modern day khawarij and a minority even call the salafis being mushriks because of their anthropomorphic views and division of tawheed.

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2 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

They have various documents and other ulemas attesting their lineage. Sayyid Habib Umar is from the ba'alawi sada family which are well know sayyids (Including Sheikh Al-Jifri is one also), they even trace their lineage through Imam Ja'afar (r.a). The tariqa ba'alawi have close ties with this family of sayyids.

You meant 'saadat' and not 'Ahlulbait'  while describing about the scholars. Both are different. 

There may be like billion saadat in the world right now but there were only 14 members in Ahlulbait (ams) ..and few others whom Ahlulbait (ams) have said to be from them. 

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17 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Those who are not wahhabi are sunni. 

Not necessarily. Not all salafis are wahhabis, but wahhabism is a branch of this movement. That aside there are many non-wahhabis that are not Sunnis, I believe Shias and Ibadis are not to be regarded as Wahhabis, not being wahhabi doesn't make someone Sunni.

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36 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

You meant 'saadat' and not 'Ahlulbait'  while describing about the scholars. Both are different. 

There may be like billion saadat in the world right now but there were only 14 members in Ahlulbait (ams) ..and few others whom Ahlulbait (ams) have said to be from them. 

Sunni interpretation is different from the Shia tradition. In Traditional Sunni Islam the Ahl al Bayt are not limited too 14 imams and we do believe that the living descendents of Sayyidina Hussein (r.a) and Sayyidina Hassan (r.a) is to be regarded as part of the Ahl Al Bayt. Please keep in mind that Sunnis don't regard them as infallible like the Ithna Ashari (Similar to Zaidi Shias).

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4 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

Why would we need? The biggest source of fitnah among sunnis is ijtihad being promoted among unqualified people in the deobandi and salafi circle.

How are you supposed to properly apply Islamic laws to modern society? Got to think rationally Brother. :)

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14 hours ago, islam25 said:

Those who are not wahhabi are sunni. 

That is OK.

But Wahabis / Salafis are very different from Sunnis.

Yet Sunnis have accepted them as Sunnis, which is not correct at all..

If they hadn't accepted them, the Wahabis would not have had the guts to destroy Jannatul Baquee. 

 

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23 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

Sunni interpretation is different from the Shia tradition

Agree. 

23 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

we do believe that the living descendents of Sayyidina Hussein (r.a) and Sayyidina Hassan (r.a) is to be regarded as part of the Ahl Al Bayt.

You mean all those from the progeny of Prophet (sawa) are Ahlulbait. The 'Ahlulbait' in your view is quite an ordinary position then. An evil guy can claim to be from Ahlulbait just on the basis of his lineage.

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On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 6:34 PM, SunniBrother said:

Not necessarily. Not all salafis are wahhabis, but wahhabism is a branch of this movement. That aside there are many non-wahhabis that are not Sunnis, I believe Shias and Ibadis are not to be regarded as Wahhabis, not being wahhabi doesn't make someone Sunni.

To me those who belive in ist four khulfa and Ahlebayt as and Awlias are sunni. 

And those who are against Awlias and sofis and believe killng of shias as legitmate are wahhabis .And believe violence against those who disagree them.

 

Edited by islam25

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3 hours ago, kirtc said:

you sound like a shia to me :) 

I am Sunni. Theologically Sunnis and Shias are not much different, we have some differences regarding pillars and faith, but major differences is regarding succession and the sahabas. Our source of laws are a little difference. We don't deny Hazrat Ali (r.a) and the Ahl Al Bayt, we just don't think them as infallible and we take into consideration people that Shias don't.

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7 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Agree. 

You mean all those from the progeny of Prophet (sawa) are Ahlulbait. The 'Ahlulbait' in your view is quite an ordinary position then. An evil guy can claim to be from Ahlulbait just on the basis of his lineage.

We don't hold them as infallible as I said. But this doesn't mean they are ordinary by any means, we regard them as Awliya. Yes a evil guy can claim being Ahl al Bayt and that's the point of them not being infallible. But the righteous Ahl Al Bayt are regarded as Awliya, far from being ordinary. We believe that infallibility is only to the Prophets

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3 hours ago, islam25 said:

To me those who belive in ist four khulfa and Ahlebayt as and Awlias are sunni. 

And those who are against Awlias and sofis and believe killng of shias as legitmate are wahhabis .And believe violence against those who disagree them.

 

 

On ‎25‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 11:52 AM, AfricanShia said:

How are you supposed to properly apply Islamic laws to modern society? Got to think rationally Brother. :)

We believe that after the death of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (r.a) we no longer need a Mujtaheed Muqallid. As Imam Al Ghazali (r.a) put we believe that bidah have ended among the true Ahl Al Sunnah whal Jammah and so we regard the system we have to be sufficient.

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1 hour ago, SunniBrother said:

I am Sunni. Theologically Sunnis and Shias are not much different, we have some differences regarding pillars and faith, but major differences is regarding succession and the sahabas. Our source of laws are a little difference. We don't deny Hazrat Ali (r.a) and the Ahl Al Bayt, we just don't think them as infallible and we take into consideration people that Shias don't.

I was a sunni too, bro. 
When it comes to hadith what books do you trust?

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26 minutes ago, kirtc said:

I was a sunni too, bro. 
When it comes to hadith what books do you trust?

Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawood, Tirmidhi, Sughra, Ibn Majah or Muwwata. But we have many other collections such as Musnad Ahmad. I trust Imam Nawawi selection in Riadhus Salihin for example.

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6 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

We don't hold them as infallible as I said. But this doesn't mean they are ordinary by any means, we regard them as Awliya. Yes a evil guy can claim being Ahl al Bayt and that's the point of them not being infallible. But the righteous Ahl Al Bayt are regarded as Awliya, far from being ordinary. We believe that infallibility is only to the Prophets

Prophet Mohammad (saw) being infallible is the ahlul sunnah belief, or your personal belief? Because last I heard, Sunni's don't hold that view. If they do, on what basis do they hold this view?

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6 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

We don't hold them as infallible as I said. But this doesn't mean they are ordinary by any means, we regard them as Awliya. Yes a evil guy can claim being Ahl al Bayt and that's the point of them not being infallible. But the righteous Ahl Al Bayt are regarded as Awliya, far from being ordinary. We believe that infallibility is only to the Prophets

Prophet Mohammad (saw) being infallible is the ahlul sunnah belief, or your personal belief? Because last I heard, Sunni's don't hold that view. If they do, on what basis do they hold this view?

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30 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

Prophet Mohammad (saw) being infallible is the ahlul sunnah belief, or your personal belief? Because last I heard, Sunni's don't hold that view. If they do, on what basis do they hold this view?

This is your traditional Sunni view.  The traditional Sunni view is Sufi.  Sufism practically dominated the traditional Sunni world (there was hardly any traditional Sunni scholar you would find who was not a Sufi).  I am sure you know that just like in the Shia Irfani tradition, one of Sufism's central doctrines is that of the Perfect Man (Insan Al-Kamil).  And obviously the Prophet (S) is the Insan al-Kamil par excellence within both Traditional Sunni Islam and Shia Islam.   

Anything influenced by wahabism is a corruption and is not traditional.  

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5 hours ago, Hassan- said:

Prophet Mohammad (saw) being infallible is the ahlul sunnah belief, or your personal belief? Because last I heard, Sunni's don't hold that view. If they do, on what basis do they hold this view?

I had to edit that post.

 

This is your traditional Sunni view.  The traditional Sunni view is Sufi.  Sufism practically dominated the traditional Sunni world (there was hardly any traditional Sunni scholar you would find who was not a Sufi).  I am sure you know that just like in the Shia Irfani tradition, one of Sufism's central doctrines is that of the Perfect Man (Insan Al-Kamil).  And obviously the Prophet (S) is the Insan al-Kamil par excellence within both Traditional Sunni Islam and Shia Islam.   

Anything influenced by wahabism is a corruption and is not traditional.  

These days we may find ourselves thinking m that Sufism is some small sect within sunni islam and that Most Sunnis have nothing to do with Sufism.  This might be true if we buy into Saudi propaganda.  But the fact of the matter is that the saudis do not represent traditional sunni islam.  Traditional Sunni Islam is represented by the likes of:

Sh. Sheikh Hamza Yusuf,

Sh. Habib Umar, 

Sh. Habib Ali Jifri,

Sh. Umar Faruk Abdallah

Sh. Ninowy

Sh. Mokhtar Maghraoui

And I have consciously LEFT out Nouman Ali Khan even though he is very much influential, but he doesbt represent traditional Sunni Islam in my books.  But I also wouldn't regard nouman ali Khan as someone who goes against traditional Sunni Islam.  

So let us get this straight.  

people who are wahabi or  "wahabi washed" are the likes of:

Khalid Yasin

Bilal Phillips

Siraj Ad-Din

Zakir Naik

and all those guys who run that depressing show on YouTube called "The Din Show".  (I am shuddering from disgust as I think about them).  

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2 hours ago, Hassan- said:

@eThErEaL that's interesting and I didn't know that. Every time I would discuss with a Sunni, they would tell me they don't believe anyone was infallible. 

The word "infallible" is a bit too strong and carries with it Christian connotations.  Many Sunnis will shy from using this strong term "infallible" because strictly speaking only God is infallible.  But as we all know, thoughtful Shias don't mean to say that the Prophet (S) is infallible in this sense.  Traditional Sunnis have absolutely no qualms with saying that the Prophet (S) has 'isma (is protected by God from everything that is humanly possible).  In other words, the Prophet (S) never ever lost his bashariyya (human-ness), but to the extent possible he was a perfect ruh (in fact he is nothing but the ruh but only at a transcendent level). And this (" 'ismah ") is the term Shias and Sunnis are meant to be using if they were to have this discussion in Arabic!  We should get used to, or familiarize ourselves with the technical Arabic term(s) that is typically used within the Islamic tradition.

 

I urge everyone to read the meaning of two very popular salawats that were written by very pious god fearing walis of the Sunni world,

1) Dalail Khayrat & 2) Qasida Al-Burdah.

Any Sunni that has a problem with these two Qasidas (Qasida's which, by the way, praise the Prophet (S) by referring to his (S) Haqiqah or by talking about him being the first creation or nur) is either Wahabi or is Wahabi-washed.

Please NOTE CAREFULLY:  A wahabi washed Sunni may not even know he is wahabi washed because they are ignorant of who has taught them while growing up.  

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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On 27/08/2017 at 7:04 PM, eThErEaL said:

I am sure you know that just like in the Shia Irfani tradition, one of Sufism's central doctrines is that of the Perfect Man (Insan Al-Kamil).  And obviously the Prophet (S) is the Insan al-Kamil

Anyone else?

I am asking from the Sufi point of view, not the Shia.

I know what the Shia view is.

Edited by baqar

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