Why I became Muslim (Sunni)

[Mohammed72]

Salam,

I will try and be quick. These are JUST three points that made me leave this religion and became a Muslim, trust me there are many. The only reason I even bother to write this is because I used to be one of you. Blindly following these mawlanas, but alhamdullialah Allah guided me and without a doubt there are many Shia out there that don’t know the truth about their religion. Inshallah Allah will guide them. BTW I can provide scans for all the below. 

The Quran.

Firstly, the Quran is the best guide for any Shia as it completely destroys every aspect of their aqeedah. Anyway, I was shocked by the Shia scholars and tahreef! What shocked me the most about this is the fact that these Shia scholars are not only still considered Muslims but are highly praised in the howzat. For example, Majlisi in his “Miratul uqul” (3/31) he said:

و الأخبار من طريق الخاصة و العامة في النقص و التغيير متواترة، و العقل يحكم بأنه إذ كان القرآن متفرقا منتشرا عند الناس، و تصدي غير المعصوم لجمعه يمتنع عادة أن يكون جمعه كاملا موافقا للواقع، لكن لا ريب في أن الناس مكلفون بالعمل بما في المصاحف و تلاوته حتى يظهر القائم عليه السلام، و هذا معلوم متواتر من طريق أهل البيت عليهم السلام و أكثر أخبار هذا الباب مما يدل على النقص و التغيير و سيأتي كثير منها في الأبواب‏

” and traditions from the ways of the elite (i.e Shia) and the public (i.e Sunnah) regarding omission and change are mutawatir, and logic dectates that if the Quran was seperated and spread amongst people, then if a fallible has tried to collect it, then it is highly unlikely that its collection would be complete and in compliance with reality. However, there is no doubt that people are obliged to work with what is included in the Mushafs and to read it until Al-Qayem appears, and this is known through numersous traditions (mutawatir) from the way of Ahlul Bayt and most traditions relating to this topic point to omission and change, and many of it will be related in the chapters……….”

Also, Al Kulayni! And Al Qummi! And Al Alayshi and the list goes on and on and on. Al Kulayni writer of Al-Kafi the number one Shia hadith book believes in tahreef… Al Qummi and Al Ayashi writers of the two oldest Shia tafseers believe in tahreef. And you want me to take hadiths from the likes of these people? And I don’t even want to talk about “Fasl Al-Khitab Fi Tahrif Kitab Rabb Al-Arbbab” by Noori. The only cult ever in any religion to write books attacking the authenticity of their holy book must be the Shia. Even modern-day Shia like Qazwini and Al-Fali and others believe in tahreef. Al-Ghizi even went and said that whoever doesn’t believe in tahreef is a kafir as he has gone against the muttawatir!

What’s funny is that Shias claim that the Quran is the greater thiqah and the Ahlulbayt is the smaller thiqah yet those who attack the greater thiqah are praised and buried next to Imam Ali like Noori!!! But those who attack the Ahlulbayt are nawasib that more najis than dogs and pigs. And following the Shia narration its Halal to kill them and take their money to pay as Khums. Don’t get me wrong attacking/hating the Ahlulbayt (RA) is a sin but this hypocrisy.

Anyway, even the Shias who argue against tahreef have no isnad (chain of narrators) to the Quran. Both sides of the coin are a joke. Especially with over 1200 hadiths on tahreef. As Kamal al Haydari said there are more hadiths on tahreef than Ghadir. Anyway, the Quran that is in our homes is narrated to use by the Sahabah (RA) and every argument a Shia makes using the Quran is always using mutashbihat and weak narrations from books all other the place. Please post your arguments and I will easily dismiss them.

15:9 It is certainly We Who have revealed the Reminder, and it is certainly We Who will preserve it.

2)Shirk.

I really do not know the difference between Shiasim and Christianity. Even the way they speak is the same. Christians tell me to try Jesus and I read somewhere on THIS form saying try salatal istigatha to Fatimah (shirk). Even these Arab Christians say Ya Isa and Shias say Ya Ali!! Yet when we read the Quran and we see verses that condemn these actions. Do I even need to quote the verses?

1:5 It is You we worship and You we ask for help.

And we read this every day in our Salah but we don’t think about what we are saying.

72:18 And [He revealed] that the masjids are for Allah, so do not invoke with Allah anyone.

13:14 To Him [alone] is the supplication of truth. And those they call upon besides Him do not respond to them with a thing, except as one who stretches his hands toward water [from afar, calling it] to reach his mouth, but it will not reach it [thus]. And the supplication of the disbelievers is not but in error [i.e. futility].

This verse clearly calls those who call besides Allah as kafirs.

35: 13-14 He causes the night to enter in upon the day, and He causes the day to enter in upon the night, and He has made subservient (to you) the sun and the moon; each one follows its course to an appointed time; this is Allah, your Lord, His is the kingdom; and those whom you call upon besides Him do not control a straw. If you call on them they shall not hear your call, and even if they could hear they shall not answer you; and on the resurrection day they will deny your associating them (with Allah); and none can inform you like the One Who is Aware.

BTW there is a BIG difference between tawassul and istigatha.

And the verses go on and on. I don’t even want to talk about wilayatul takwinniyah. (The accusation that the Imam has control of every atom in the universe). What is taught in Saturday schools and said on the mimbars is only a small portion of the shirk that we read in the Shia books such as Ali being the Lord (rabb) of the earth and Allah the Lord (rabb) of the heavens.

43:84 And He it is Who is Allah in the heavens and Allah in the earth; and He is the Wise, the Knowing.

If you want I can gladly quote some hadiths for you.

Imammah.

The SHIA TAFSEER of verses used to “prove” imammah is a joke. They bring a couple of mutashabihat and suddenly they make takfir on everyone who doesn’t believe in it. The lack/absence of verses in the Quran about Imammah is what lead Shia scholars to believe in tahreef. There are even verses that suggest otherwise:

42:38 And those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, and their rule is to take counsel among themselves, and who spend out of what We have given them.

3:159 Thus it is due to mercy from Allah that you deal with them gently, and had you been rough, hard hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair; so when you have decided, then place your trust in Allah; surely Allah loves those who trust

Furthermore, Imammah goes against other verses:

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.

Watch the video and you will see how he even quotes from Al-mufeed.

Also, we are given this idea that Imams are better than prophets while Allah says:

6:83-87 That is Our argument. We gave it unto Abraham against his folk. We raise unto degrees of wisdom whom We will. Lo! thy Lord is Wise, Aware. And We bestowed upon him Isaac and Jacob; each of them We guided; and Noah did We guide aforetime; and of his seed (We guided) David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward the good. And Zachariah and John and Jesus and Elias. Each one (of them) was of the righteous. And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot. Each one (of them) did We prefer above (Our) creatures, With some of their forefathers and their offspring and their brethren; and We chose them and guided them unto a straight path.

After Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى mentions his Prophets, He سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى mentions that they have been preferred over the other creations. You can even give the Quran to a non-Muslim in any language and if you asked him about all the pillars of Islam he would know about them but if you asked him about Imammah he will say "what is that?"

I would like everyone who has read this post to comment any questions as the more questions you ask the more the truth will be revealed. I would also like to thank websites like anti-majos and twelevershia even though I doubt they read these forums. Also, thank all Muslims that were patient with me and spent their time spreading the truth.

PLEASE READ THE QURAN WITH AN OPEN MIND AND IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE ARABIC TRY USING A TRANSLATION WHILE IN THE MEAN TIME LEARNING ARABIC.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Mohammed72

[ali_fatheroforphans]

28 minutes ago, Mohammed72 said:

is You we worship and You we ask for help.

"O you who have believed, fear Allah and seek the means [of nearness] to Him and strive in His cause that you may succeed." (5:35)

28 minutes ago, Mohammed72 said:

I really do not know the difference between Shiasim and Christianity.

You clearly don't have an open mind. We don't believe Imam Ali (as) was the son of God. Seeking intercession is fine and even Sunni hadiths support this.

Edited August 23, 2017 by ali_fatheroforphans

[Akbar673]

3 hours ago, Mohammed72 said:

Salam, [Mod Note: Long quote removed.]

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Hameedeh

[monad]

1) you are a fake.

2) deluded fake.

3)your post tell us all, you are a deluded fake.

4) why do worship your sahabas? Especially the first three? They were just humans, history is laidend with great men too. I would say Socrates was far superior.

[Mohammed72]

Just now, ali_fatheroforphans said:

"O you who have believed, fear Allah and seek the means [of nearness] to Him and strive in His cause that you may succeed." 

You clearly don't have an open mind. We don't believe Imam Ali (as) was the son of God. Seeking intercession is fine and even Sunni hadiths support this.

Surah 5:35 says take a waseelah not istigahtha. Even Sayyiduna Ali (RA) in nahj al balagah (which is a lie against him) sermon 109 say: about waseeelah:

The best means by which seekers of nearness to Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, seek nearness, is the belief in Him and His Prophet, fighting in His cause, for it is the high pinnacle of Islam, and (to believe) in the kalimatu'l-'ikhlas (the expression of Divine purification) for it is just nature and the establishment of prayer for it is (the basis of) community, payment of zakat (Islamic tax) for it is a compulsory obligation, fasting for the month of Ramadan for it is the shield against chastisement, the performance of hajj of the House of Allah (i. e . Ka`bah) and its `umrah (other than annual visit) for these two acts banish poverty and wash away sins, regard for kinship for it increases wealth and length of life, to giving alms secretly for it covers shortcomings, giving alms openly for it protects against a bad death and extending benefits (to people) for it saves from positions of disgrace.

 I do not see the modern day shirk of Shia Ya Ali and Ya Muhammad included.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB1W8Cfziwk

If that isn't shirk I do not know what shirk is.

I like the way you ignored all my other points. And what I said about Christianity is true. I can give a hadith were it says the Ahlulbayt were created from Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى light!!?

I ask Allah to guide you and all the Shia. 

[ali_fatheroforphans]

41 minutes ago, Mohammed72 said:

Ahlulbayt (RA)

I think you were always a salafi/Ibn Tamiyyah fan boy. No need to call yourself "Muslim".

 

Edited August 23, 2017 by ali_fatheroforphans

[Mohammed72]

1 minute ago, monad said:

1) you are a fake.

2) deluded fake.

3)your post tell us all, you are a deluded fake.

4) why do worship your sahabas? Especially the first three? They were just humans, history is laidend with great men too. I would say Socrates was far superior.

 

6 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

 

I have posts on this websites from 3 years ago when I was a Shia.

Mashallah the Akhlaq of the Ahlulbayt.

The mockery of believers isn't something new and it is nothing compared to what Abu Bakr(RA), Umar(RA) and Uthman (RA) and the Shabas(RA) used to go through.

83:29 Verily! (During the worldly life) those who committed crimes used to laugh at those who believed.

I ask Allah to guide all Shias.

[Mohammed72]

4 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I think you were always a salafi/Ibn Tamiyyah fan boy. No need to call yourself "Muslim".

 

I ask Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى to guide you

[monad]

your follow up post proved my point. If you were really a Shia, all you have done now is replaced one authority of reverence to another. Now clap your hands at my genius. What's next, shias have bad grammar?. Entertain me more.

[Mohammed72]

1 minute ago, monad said:

your follow up post proved my point. If you were really a Shia, all you have done now is replaced one authority of reverence to another. Now clap your hands at my genius. What's next, shias have bad grammar?. Entertain me more.

Brother, If I am wrong answer my questions I will become Shia again. The Quran is full of verses including the phrase "they ask you". 

I ask Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى to guide you.

[monad]

here is the dilemma. God already guided me, now what?.....

I already answered you. Figure it out.

my best advice, change your hobby.

[Mohammed72]

40:41-44 "And O my people! How is it that I call you to salvation while you call me to the Fire! "You invite me to disbelieve in Allah (and in His Oneness), and to join partners in worship with Him; of which I have no knowledge, and I invite you to the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving! "No doubt you call me to (worship) one who cannot grant (me) my request (or respond to my invocation) in this world or in the Hereafter. And our return will be to Allah, and Al-Musrifun (i.e. polytheists and arrogants, those who commit great sins, the transgressors of Allah's set limits)! They shall be the dwellers of the Fire! "And you will remember what I am telling you, and my affair I leave it to Allah. Verily, Allah is the All-Seer of (His) slaves."

I ask Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى to guide me and you and all Shia to the path of his Prophet (S). 

[baqar]

26 minutes ago, Mohammed72 said:

Brother, If I am wrong answer my questions I will become Shia again.

Brother, no problem.

You see, your essay is all over the place.

That is not how you ask questions.  

Write down your questions in serial order.

Like this:

1.

2.

3.

4.

And so on.

 

[Abu Nur]

Quote

Mashallah the Akhlaq of the Ahlulbayt.

Is this the way of ex-shia who converts to sunnism dare to state?

Edited August 23, 2017 by Dhulfikar

[Mohammed72]

12 minutes ago, baqar said:

Brother, no problem.

You see, your essay is all over the place.

That is not how you ask questions.  

Write down your questions in serial order.

Like this:

1.

2.

3.

4.

And so on.

 

A question from my "essay" is you want to call it that. After you answer this we can move on to more.

1.Is someone who says the Quran is muharaf a kafir? 

If yes would that make you great scholars Kafirs?

If no then... we can debate that.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Mohammed72

[Mohammed72]

12 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Is this the way of ex-shia who converts to sunnism dare to state? No one really take you seriously as being ex-shia.

I ask Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى to guide you and me and all the Shias.

[Abu Nur]

Quote

3:159 Thus it is due to mercy from Allah that you deal with them gently, and had you been rough, hard hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair; so when you have decided, then place your trust in Allah; surely Allah loves those who trust

How do you make an conclusion that the verse is talking about the matter of khilafe, when the verse itself is referred to the Prophet Muhammad (saws) and how he was commanded to take counsel with them in the affair of that time. Also if this is the proof that khilafa appointment need to be taken with the counseling, why Abu Bakr did not appoint any counseling but rather gave the khilafa to Umar directly?

Edited August 23, 2017 by Dhulfikar

[Akbar673]

1 hour ago, Mohammed72 said:

 

I have posts on this websites from 3 years ago when I was a Shia.

Mashallah the Akhlaq of the Ahlulbayt.

The mockery of believers isn't something new and it is nothing compared to what Abu Bakr(RA), Umar(RA) and Uthman (RA) and the Shabas(RA) used to go through.

83:29 Verily! (During the worldly life) those who committed crimes used to laugh at those who believed.

I ask Allah to guide all Shias.

So why are you here now ?

Do you honestly think the followers and lovers of the Ahle Bayt are going to convert to Sunni simply because you are posting?

No, we are not.

I'll even do you one better and call you out for the liar that you are and expose you as a disguised Wahabbis/Salafi/Whatever that you are lying and saying you were once a Shia. You never were a Shia and you dare to come back and try to convince to become a Nasibi like yourself. You're a liar and this is nothing more than a feeble attempt by a feeble Sunni. 

Akhlaq? No, the followers of the Ahle Bayt recognize the Munafiqs and treat them accordingly. 

Be gone...we don't need your pestilence here.

[Mohammed72]

1 minute ago, Dhulfikar said:

How do you make an conclusion that the verse is talking about the matter of khilafe, when the verse itself is referred to the Prophet Muhammad (saws) hand how he was commanded to take counsel with them. Also if this is the proof that khilafa appointment need to be taken with the counseling, why Abu Bakr did not appoint any counseling but rather gave the khilafa to Umar directly?

Finally a question.

This verse is interesting. Firstly, something that I did not mention is that this verse shows that the Sahaba (RA) were not all hypocrites/kafirs except 3 or 4 as the Shia hadith says, as it commands the Prophet (S) to counsel them before making an order and Allah would not ask for the opinion or want the involvement of kafirs and hypocrites.

Secondly, Abu Bakr (RA) did consult the Muslims as we read:

At the beginning of Jumada al-Ukhra (13 AH), Abu Bakr caught a fever and its intensity continued unabated for a fortnight. When he grew sure of his last hours drawing near, he sent for Abdur Rahman bin Awf and held consultation (Shura) with him regarding the Caliphate…following this, he called Uthman bin Affan and put the same question to him. He (Uthman) said in reply: “Umar’s internal self is better than his external one; he is superior to us all.” When Ali was consulted, he made almost the same answer. Then came Talhah…

(Tareekh al-Islam, Vol.1, pp.312-313)

In another narration, we read:

When ill-health overtook Abu Bakr and the time of his death approached, he summoned Abdur Rahman bin Awf and said: “Tell me about Umar ibn Khattab.” Abdur Rahman replied: “You are asking me about something of which you know better…By Allah, he is even better than the opinion you hold about him.” Then he (Abu Bakr) called Uthman bin Affan and asked him: “Tell me about Umar ibn Khattab.” Uthman replied: “You know him better than us.” Abu Bakr said: “Still, O Abu Abdullah!” Uthman answered: “Indeed, in my opinion, his inner self is better than his outer self and no one among us can parallel him.”

(Ibn Saad; Al-Tabaqat Al-Kubra, Vol.3, p.199)

It clearly shows Ali (RA) was he was pleased with the decision. There are more narrations which show Ijma' for Umar (RA) Khlafa during the time of Abu Bakr (RA) if you want.

Also, you need to quote the other verse which gives more information saying "and their rule is to take counsel among themselves".

Also the hadith states:

I advise you to fear Allaah and to hear and obey even if an Abyssinian slave were to rule over you. For surely, he who lives from amongst you will see much differing, so it is upon you to be upon my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the Rightly Guided Caliphs. Bite on to it with your back molar teeth and beware of newly invented matters, for verily, every newly invented matter is an innovation, and all innovation is misguidance.’” 

Related by Aboo Daawood (no. 4607) and by at-Tirmidthee (no. 2676). It was authenticated by Shaykh al-Albaanee in Irwaa’ul-Ghaleel (no. 2455).

This shows we should follow the Prophet and the Rightly Guided Caliphs. This is backed up by the Quran:

9:100 And the first to lead the way, of the Muhajirin and the Ansar, and those who followed them in goodness - Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him, and He hath made ready for them Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. That is the supreme triumph.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

Could you please clarify what you mean by the label of your thread?

"Why I became Muslim (Sunni)"

Does this mean you were not muslim before since you became muslim?

 

Also, if I ask you to make dua for me, is that shirk?

[Qa'im]

Are you sure you want to do this?

 

3 hours ago, Mohammed72 said:

The Quran.

Firstly, the Quran is the best guide for any Shia as it completely destroys every aspect of their aqeedah. Anyway, I was shocked by the Shia scholars and tahreef! What shocked me the most about this is the fact that these Shia scholars are not only still considered Muslims but are highly praised in the howzat. For example, Majlisi in his “Miratul uqul” (3/31) he said:

و الأخبار من طريق الخاصة و العامة في النقص و التغيير متواترة، و العقل يحكم بأنه إذ كان القرآن متفرقا منتشرا عند الناس، و تصدي غير المعصوم لجمعه يمتنع عادة أن يكون جمعه كاملا موافقا للواقع، لكن لا ريب في أن الناس مكلفون بالعمل بما في المصاحف و تلاوته حتى يظهر القائم عليه السلام، و هذا معلوم متواتر من طريق أهل البيت عليهم السلام و أكثر أخبار هذا الباب مما يدل على النقص و التغيير و سيأتي كثير منها في الأبواب‏

” and traditions from the ways of the elite (i.e Shia) and the public (i.e Sunnah) regarding omission and change are mutawatir, and logic dectates that if the Quran was seperated and spread amongst people, then if a fallible has tried to collect it, then it is highly unlikely that its collection would be complete and in compliance with reality. However, there is no doubt that people are obliged to work with what is included in the Mushafs and to read it until Al-Qayem appears, and this is known through numersous traditions (mutawatir) from the way of Ahlul Bayt and most traditions relating to this topic point to omission and change, and many of it will be related in the chapters……….”

Also, Al Kulayni! And Al Qummi! And Al Alayshi and the list goes on and on and on. Al Kulayni writer of Al-Kafi the number one Shia hadith book believes in tahreef… Al Qummi and Al Ayashi writers of the two oldest Shia tafseers believe in tahreef. And you want me to take hadiths from the likes of these people? And I don’t even want to talk about “Fasl Al-Khitab Fi Tahrif Kitab Rabb Al-Arbbab” by Noori. The only cult ever in any religion to write books attacking the authenticity of their holy book must be the Shia. Even modern-day Shia like Qazwini and Al-Fali and others believe in tahreef. Al-Ghizi even went and said that whoever doesn’t believe in tahreef is a kafir as he has gone against the muttawatir!

The preservation of the Quran was supported by Saduq, Tusi, Sharif Murtada, and [arguably] Mufid; and it is the dominant position (near consensus) in the hawzas and among our maraji`. Yes, we have had scholars that believed in tahreef, so have Sunnis. Tahreef is a complex discussion that Sunnis simply don't want to deal with, and so instead they catastrophize and hurl accusations at others. Al-Albani said that Abdullah b. Mas`ud (ra) did not believe that al-Falaq and an-Nas were a part of the Quran - that is tahreef. All Sunnis believe that ayat ar-rajm has been abograted only from the recitation (naskh at-tilawa) - this is tahreef. All Sunnis believe that the qira'at of the Quran (7 mutawatir, 3 ahad) do not holistically represent the 7 ahruf, which means that aspects of the 7 ahruf are either lost or jumbled into the current qira'at - this is tahreef. Simply research the basic differences between the 7 qira'at, and you'll find places where they differ in meaning (and not just in "accent" or "recitation" or whatever) - call it what you want.

The position of all twelver Shi`a, whether or not they believe in tahreef, is that the mus`haf today is the word of God. We must use it in our prayers, recite from it, and we even receive baraka by looking at it. It is the main criterion by which our ahadith are authenticated. The narrations on tahreef even tell us to stick to this mus`haf, and that the Mahdi will bring the correct qira'a once he comes. In other words, the practice of those who believe or disbelieve in tahreef is identical.

 

3 hours ago, Mohammed72 said:

2)Shirk.

I really do not know the difference between Shiasim and Christianity. Even the way they speak is the same. Christians tell me to try Jesus and I read somewhere on THIS form saying try salatal istigatha to Fatimah (shirk). Even these Arab Christians say Ya Isa and Shias say Ya Ali!! Yet when we read the Quran and we see verses that condemn these actions. Do I even need to quote the verses?

1:5 It is You we worship and You we ask for help.

And we read this every day in our Salah but we don’t think about what we are saying.

72:18 And [He revealed] that the masjids are for Allah, so do not invoke with Allah anyone.

13:14 To Him [alone] is the supplication of truth. And those they call upon besides Him do not respond to them with a thing, except as one who stretches his hands toward water [from afar, calling it] to reach his mouth, but it will not reach it [thus]. And the supplication of the disbelievers is not but in error [i.e. futility].

This verse clearly calls those who call besides Allah as kafirs.

35: 13-14 He causes the night to enter in upon the day, and He causes the day to enter in upon the night, and He has made subservient (to you) the sun and the moon; each one follows its course to an appointed time; this is Allah, your Lord, His is the kingdom; and those whom you call upon besides Him do not control a straw. If you call on them they shall not hear your call, and even if they could hear they shall not answer you; and on the resurrection day they will deny your associating them (with Allah); and none can inform you like the One Who is Aware.

BTW there is a BIG difference between tawassul and istigatha.

And the verses go on and on. I don’t even want to talk about wilayatul takwinniyah. (The accusation that the Imam has control of every atom in the universe). What is taught in Saturday schools and said on the mimbars is only a small portion of the shirk that we read in the Shia books such as Ali being the Lord (rabb) of the earth and Allah the Lord (rabb) of the heavens.

43:84 And He it is Who is Allah in the heavens and Allah in the earth; and He is the Wise, the Knowing.

If you want I can gladly quote some hadiths for you.

You quote these verses as though none of our scholars have read them in the last 1200 years. First of all, tawassul is not even a Shia issue, it is an Islamic issue. There are Sunnis who practice tawassul, and there are Shias who do not practice tawassul.

Tawassul is often compared to shirk, but to be honest, there will always be an intermediary between one and God. The names of Allah are created and separate from Him, and our words, actions, and rituals are all mediums between us and Him. As Imam al-Hadi once said, we share no medium with Allah, because that would be tashbeeh. We are creation, and we interact with creation - the Creator in His Essence is only known though His created signs. The Infinite God acts through the finite. Allah gives life, by allowing His created Spirit to breathe a soul into our bodies. Allah ends life, by allowing His created angel to remove our soul from our bodies. Allah delivers rizq to us through created means. So tawassul and ziyara, like salat, zakat, sawm, hajj, and other good deeds, are ultimately a path to God. They are all different means through which He is reached. A truly "direct" relationship is not plausible. As long as one believes that all created things have no power in and of themselves, then tawassul can only be an intercession to God, and not calling on a separate deity. Otherwise, the same argument can be made about all of our good deeds.

I'm curious to hear why you think istighatha in the Hereafter is so different from tawassul in the dunya.

3 hours ago, Mohammed72 said:

Imammah.

The SHIA TAFSEER of verses used to “prove” imammah is a joke. They bring a couple of mutashabihat and suddenly they make takfir on everyone who doesn’t believe in it. The lack/absence of verses in the Quran about Imammah is what lead Shia scholars to believe in tahreef. There are even verses that suggest otherwise:

42:38 And those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, and their rule is to take counsel among themselves, and who spend out of what We have given them.

3:159 Thus it is due to mercy from Allah that you deal with them gently, and had you been rough, hard hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair; so when you have decided, then place your trust in Allah; surely Allah loves those who trust

Furthermore, Imammah goes against other verses:

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.

I will simply quote my thread on Imamah in the Quranic worldview. InshaAllah you give it a fair and honest reading, along with its continuation thread at the end.

 

3 hours ago, Mohammed72 said:

Watch the video and you will see how he even quotes from Al-mufeed.

Also, we are given this idea that Imams are better than prophets while Allah says:

As for his point that the difference between Sunnism and Shiism is the finality of prophethood: this is disingenuous because many Sunnis (perhaps most) believed in maHfooth awliya' who performed karamat and kashf (infallibility, sainthood, miracles, and divine inspiration). It is wrong to assume that the Sealing of Prophethood = Cosmic Despair. The Seal even for Sunnis did not mean the end of divine vicegerency, as the Mahdi or even the Caliphs would fulfill that role.

The root difference between Sunnism and Shiism is the question of authority. For Sunnis, divine authority went to the Umma as a whole, which has the right to choose a divine vicegerent (khalifatullah), and the sahaba of which are all `adil and authoritative, and the consensus of the scholars is considered divine law, and the qiyas and ra'y of the scholars is acceptable in fiqh, etc. For Shi`is, the divine authority of the Prophet (s) passed to a man and not to the Umma as a whole. The latter is more Quranic, as it contains no concept of "people's rule" in divine matters; rather Allah's sunna is to appoint a vicegerent to lead the people, and demand that the people submit to that man. And Allah's sunna does not change (33:63).

--

May Allah keep our hearts steadfast on the wilaya of `Ali b. Abi Talib (as)

[Mohammed72]

7 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

So why are you here now ?

Do you honestly think the followers and lovers of the Ahle Bayt are going to convert to Sunni simply because you are posting?

No, we are not.

I'll even do you one better and call you out for the liar that you are and expose you as a disguised Wahabbis/Salafi/Whatever that you are lying and saying you were once a Shia. You never were a Shia and you dare to come back and try to convince to become a Nasibi like yourself. You're a liar and this is nothing more than a feeble attempt by a feeble Sunni. 

Akhlaq? No, the followers of the Ahle Bayt recognize the Munafiqs and treat them accordingly. 

Be gone...we don't need your pestilence here.

You can click on my account and see my posts from 3+ years ago. I do not need to prove myself to you. Alhamdullah Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is my witness. Why can't you just answer my questions? And if I am a nasibi does that mean my killing is now Halal? Are you going to take my money and give it as Khums?

روى الصدوق طاب ثراه في العلل مسندا إلى داود بن فرقد قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله عليه السلام (39) المصدر السابق ص 167 .ما تقول في الناصب ؟
قال : حلال الدم لكني أتقي عليك، فإن قدرت أن تقلب عليه حائطا أو تغرقه في ماء لكيلا يشهد به عليك فافعل .
قلت: فما ترى في ماله ؟
قال خذه ما قدرت .
 وسائل الشيعة 18/463، بحار الأنوار 27/ 231

If you can read arabic.

And your claim that you love and follow the Ahlulbayt (RA) is the same as the Christians (may the lana't of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى be upon them) claim that they love and follow Isa (A). I wonder which follower of the Ahlulbayt (RA) can't answer basic questions about their aqeedah? Wallah it is not the aqeedah of the Ahlulbayt (RA) rather that of Abdullah ibn Saba'.      

In the book "Firaq us Shia" Page 19-22 depending on the edition the Shia sheikh admits that Abdullah ibn Saba' was the first person to spread Imammah and the Lana'h of the Sahaba (RA).

[Hassan-]

You should read this thread here by Qa'im (who is a convert from Sunni to shi'a).

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235043713-imamate-in-the-quran/#comment-2974026

[Mohammed72]

A screenshot of "Firaq us Shia" talking about Abdullah Ibn Saba'

Doc3.docx

[Mohammed72]

49 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Could you please clarify what you mean by the label of your thread?

"Why I became Muslim (Sunni)"

Does this mean you were not muslim before since you became muslim?

Also, if I ask you to make dua for me, is that shirk?

I used to be a Shia (mushrik), to be short used to say things like Ya Ali and that the prophet has Ilm' Al Ghayb.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

32 minutes ago, Mohammed72 said:

I used to be a Shia (mushrik), to be short used to say things like Ya Ali and that the prophet has Ilm' Al Ghayb.

So shias are not muslims is what you are saying? Are we kafir then?

Also, you did not answer my second question.

[Mohammed72]

Just now, IbnSina said:

So shias are not muslims is what you are saying? Are we kafir then?

 

Also, you did not answer my second question.

No it is not shirk to ask Dua from someone who is alive.

And it depends on what that individual believes. Every Shia will say something different. If he believes for example that Aisha (RA) did zina then he is a kafir.

Please just let me answer the questions above before you ask your next question.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

28 minutes ago, Mohammed72 said:

No it is not shirk to ask Dua from someone who is alive.

Ok, so then you are saying as long as someone is alive, it is not shirk to ask them to make dua for you.

What about people who are alive but you do not see them? Does the holy Qur'an mention something about such cases? People who died fi sabilillah?

2:154

Sahih International: And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah , "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not.

28 minutes ago, Mohammed72 said:

And it depends on what that individual believes. Every Shia will say something different. If he believes for example that Aisha (RA) did zina then he is a kafir.

What do you mean?

If you say whatever about Aisha, does it make you a kafir or not a kafir? Does my belief in the existence of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and the message of his last messenger(S) depend on what I may say or not say about Aisha, one of the wives of the Prophet(S)? How do you reason?

What is your definition of the term kafir?

[Akbar673]

40 minutes ago, Mohammed72 said:

You can click on my account and see my posts from 3+ years ago. I do not need to prove myself to you. Alhamdullah Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is my witness. Why can't you just answer my questions? And if I am a nasibi does that mean my killing is now Halal? Are you going to take my money and give it as Khums?

روى الصدوق طاب ثراه في العلل مسندا إلى داود بن فرقد قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله عليه السلام (39) المصدر السابق ص 167 .ما تقول في الناصب ؟
قال : حلال الدم لكني أتقي عليك، فإن قدرت أن تقلب عليه حائطا أو تغرقه في ماء لكيلا يشهد به عليك فافعل .
قلت: فما ترى في ماله ؟
قال خذه ما قدرت .
 وسائل الشيعة 18/463، بحار الأنوار 27/ 231

If you can read arabic.

And your claim that you love and follow the Ahlulbayt (RA) is the same as the Christians (may the lana't of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى be upon them) claim that they love and follow Isa (A). I wonder which follower of the Ahlulbayt (RA) can't answer basic questions about their aqeedah? Wallah it is not the aqeedah of the Ahlulbayt (RA) rather that of Abdullah ibn Saba'.      

In the book "Firaq us Shia" Page 19-22 depending on the edition the Shia sheikh admits that Abdullah ibn Saba' was the first person to spread Imammah and the Lana'h of the Sahaba (RA).

Ignored.

You're a waste of server space.

and to my fellow Shia who read his posts beware of this Sunni Wahabbi who comes here to create confusion in the hearts of the ill educated. He's here for that exact reason. Any question which may arise in your hearts I would ask you to ask in a separate thread on this forum as well as ask of your scholars.

Dont be deceived by this shaitan. He's here to create weakness in your Iman by creating confusion in your mind. Ignore this enemy of Shias.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Akbar673

[Mohammed72]

24 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

 

The preservation of the Quran was supported by Saduq, Tusi, Sharif Murtada, and [arguably] Mufid; and it is the dominant position (near consensus) in the hawzas and among our maraji`. Yes, we have had scholars that believed in tahreef, so have Sunnis. Tahreef is a complex discussion that Sunnis simply don't want to deal with, and so instead they catastrophize and hurl accusations at others. Al-Albani said that Abdullah b. Mas`ud (ra) did not believe that al-Falaq and an-Nas were a part of the Quran - that is tahreef. All Sunnis believe that ayat ar-rajm has been abograted only from the recitation (naskh at-tilawa) - this is tahreef. All Sunnis believe that the qira'at of the Quran (7 mutawatir, 3 ahad) do not holistically represent the 7 ahruf, which means that aspects of the 7 ahruf are either lost or jumbled into the current qira'at - this is tahreef. Simply research the basic differences between the 7 qira'at, and you'll find places where they differ in meaning (and not just in "accent" or "recitation" or whatever) - call it what you want.

The position of all twelver Shi`a, whether or not they believe in tahreef, is that the mus`haf today is the word of God. We must use it in our prayers, recite from it, and we even receive baraka by looking at it. It is the main criterion by which our ahadith are authenticated. The narrations on tahreef even tell us to stick to this mus`haf, and that the Mahdi will bring the correct qira'a once he comes. In other words, the practice of those who believe or disbelieve in tahreef is identical.

 

First of all Al-Mufid as you clearly know but want to hid has contradicted himself once saying he believes in tahreef and once saying he doesn't. You putting the names of 4 of your scholars who do not believe in tahreef doesn't prove anything nor does it have anything to do with my question. Its funny how you talk about the hawzas and tahreef. You try and ignore Al-Qazwini and Al-Fali and other modern-day scholars who believe in tahreef by saying "we had scholars". LOL you had, have and will have scholars who believe in tahreef. Please name me the sunni scholars who believe in tahreef. Who actually believe in tahreef not just commented on the narrations as fabricated. It doesn't change the rule that whoever believes in tahreef is a kafir. This is what Shias can not say as they wouldn't have a religion with that many of their scholars being kafir. You talk about naskh at-tilawa while you can open Bihar Al Anwar and Waseeli as Shia and you will find the same narrations. Go read your own books. Waseeli As Shia has a chapter called the proof for stoning from the Quran go read it. 

As for the 7 Qiraat, they are wahi from Allah. Did you not know that? Even your Marjas like sistani say you can pray Salah with them. Who said an ayah can not have more than one meaning? GO read tafsir al mizan. As for Abdullah ibn Masud (RA) there are narrations that say he did include them and narrations that say otherwise. The narrations that say he did include them are stronger. As for Al-Albani that his opinion not a hujjah. He himself doesn't not believe in tahreef. You can read more here:

  http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=11694

However, Majlisi backs him self up with fake narrations from the Ahlulbayt (RA) that he says reaches the level of muttawatir. You also ignored Al-Gizi video who used evidence from Al-Khoei's book.

You still have not answered:

If someone believes in tahreef are they a kafir?

Do shias even have an isnad for the Quran?

55 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

You quote these verses as though none of our scholars have read them in the last 1200 years. First of all, tawassul is not even a Shia issue, it is an Islamic issue. There are Sunnis who practice tawassul, and there are Shias who do not practice tawassul.

Tawassul is often compared to shirk, but to be honest, there will always be an intermediary between one and God. The names of Allah are created and separate from Him, and our words, actions, and rituals are all mediums between us and Him. As Imam al-Hadi once said, we share no medium with Allah, because that would be tashbeeh. We are creation, and we interact with creation - the Creator in His Essence is only known though His created signs. The Infinite God acts through the finite. Allah gives life, by allowing His created Spirit to breathe a soul into our bodies. Allah ends life, by allowing His created angel to remove our soul from our bodies. Allah delivers rizq to us through created means. So tawassul and ziyara, like salat, zakat, sawm, hajj, and other good deeds, are ultimately a path to God. They are all different means through which He is reached. A truly "direct" relationship is not plausible. As long as one believes that all created things have no power in and of themselves, then tawassul can only be an intercession to God, and not calling on a separate deity. Otherwise, the same argument can be made about all of our good deeds.

I'm curious to hear why you think istighatha in the Hereafter is so different from tawassul in the dunya.

 

You don't even know what istighatha means? FLOP. We believe in tawassul and like Ali (RA) said with our good deeds and so on. Who is even talking about Ismai wa Sifat? Allah's names created another shia belief. Please actually know what you are talking about before you post. Maybe I should ask you what you mean by istighatha in the hereafter? Istighatha is asking someone apart from Allah for something. e.g. Ya ALI give me a child. In other words shirk. Tawassul is saying Ya Allah give me this and this as I preformed this action. Need Surah AL Khaf to see an example. And Ahlul-sunnah say tawassul using a dead person is not allowed and is bid'a. Some scholars have put it under the category on minor shirk. Its seems you and your scholars have been reading Quran like the jews read the torah.

 

1 hour ago, Qa'im said:

 

 

 

As for his point that the difference between Sunnism and Shiism is the finality of prophethood: this is disingenuous because many Sunnis (perhaps most) believed in maHfooth awliya' who performed karamat and kashf (infallibility, sainthood, miracles, and divine inspiration). It is wrong to assume that the Sealing of Prophethood = Cosmic Despair. The Seal even for Sunnis did not mean the end of divine vicegerency, as the Mahdi or even the Caliphs would fulfill that role.

The root difference between Sunnism and Shiism is the question of authority. For Sunnis, divine authority went to the Umma as a whole, which has the right to choose a divine vicegerent (khalifatullah), and the sahaba of which are all `adil and authoritative, and the consensus of the scholars is considered divine law, and the qiyas and ra'y of the scholars is acceptable in fiqh, etc. For Shi`is, the divine authority of the Prophet (s) passed to a man and not to the Umma as a whole. The latter is more Quranic, as it contains no concept of "people's rule" in divine matters; rather Allah's sunna is to appoint a vicegerent to lead the people, and demand that the people submit to that man. And Allah's sunna does not change (33:63).

--

May Allah keep our hearts steadfast on the wilaya of `Ali b. Abi Talib (as)

   First of all that thread is exactly what I mean. Firstly, you ignored my question about the Prophets being better than no prophets as Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى has said. The verses used fail in these ways:

Allah has not cut himself off from creation. The Quran and the Sunnah was left for us as guidance.

The verse about Ull Al Amr says that if there is a dispute than return to the Prophet (Sunnah )and the Quran (Allah) so that means the Ull Al Amr who are the Imams to you are not a Hujjah.

Saying Allah made Talut a king has nothing to do with Imammah. I can say Allah pointed Abu Bakr (RA) as the leader after the Prophet (S) using that logic.

You used verse that talk about the role of prophets like the one from Surah Al Anbya and said that talks about the role of the Imam? Also you do not seem to know that the word "Aiimmah" in arabic means leaders. So Allah made the Prophets Leaders that would receive wahi to do good actions somehow equals to the Imammah of the ahlulbayt?

Even Imam it has many meaning such as leader. In surah Yasin

36:12   Verily, We give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before (them), and their traces [their footsteps and walking on the earth with their legs to the mosques for the five compulsory congregational prayers, Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) and all other good and evil they did, and that which they leave behind], and all things We have recorded with numbers (as a record) in a Clear Book.

Here it means book. And in surah Al furqan 

25:74 And those who say: "Our Lord! Bestow on us from our wives and our offspring who will be the comfort of our eyes, and make us leaders for the Muttaqun"

If Imammah was meant by the word Imam in the Quran than this Dua would be Haram. Its like praying to be a prophet. However, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى says it is a characteristic of his servants to say this dua.

Also through out the article you gave wrong information. E.g. sidiqeen means the truthful not whatever you said. There are other examples as well if you want.

Also one more verse

28:41  And We made them leaders inviting to the Fire, and on the Day of Resurrection, they will not be helped.

In arabic "jalnahum" is used. Does that somehow mean these are Godly chosen Imams?

About the finality of prophet hood it like usually tried to change the topic. We say that Awliya have karamt. And there is a difference between wahi and ilham. That might be another word you do not know the meaning of. Also if you meant by that paragraph that you rejected the finality of prophet hood than thats Kufr. Even in the Quran it talks about a period with no Prophets.

5:19  O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you to make things plain unto you after an interval (of cessation) of the messengers, lest ye should say: There came not unto us a messenger of cheer nor any warner. Now hath a messenger of cheer and a warner come unto you. Allah is Able to do all things.

[hoskot]

2 hours ago, Mohammed72 said:

Brother, If I am wrong answer my questions I will become Shia again. The Quran is full of verses including the phrase "they ask you". 

I ask Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى to guide you.

a very good point. And yet, none asked the prophet saww, "who are these uil amr" as per 4:59

[Shakir 4:59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

[AfricanShia]

@Mohammed72 . 

Shia follow the tradition of Ahlulbayt. What does Ahlulbayt teach us? To be virtuous and to be obedient to Allah. In Qunut we praise Allah and do salawat on the Prophet (SAWA) and then to end Qunut we do the same process. In Salat, we praise and glorify Allah's name, we face Qiblah direction, and we do salawat on the Prophet (SAWA) and his Ahlulbayt (as). The most holiest book in Shia Islam is the Quran. The most perfect creation that Allah has created is none other than the Holy Prophet (SAWA). In Christianity they believe in the Trinity that God, the son and the Holy Spirit combine to form one enitity, a physical entity. In Sunni Hadith it mentions that we will see Allah's face and that he will have arms and legs while we refute this belief. According to the tradition of the Prophet and his family, Allah does not have a physical form, that he is too powerful to obtain a physical form. According to what I just mentioned it seems that Sunni Islam are the ones that actually contradict themselves are closer to Christianity. We accept all Prophets in Islam, we do not reject Muhammad's (SAWA) tradition, we uphold it and we practice it. I domt know what research you have conducted but it needs to be done again, from Shia sources and not Sunnu sources. 

[Mohammed72]

57 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Ok, so then you are saying as long as someone is alive, it is not shirk to ask them to make dua for you.

What about people who are alive but you do not see them? Does the holy Qur'an mention something about such cases? People who died fi sabilillah?

2:154

Sahih International: And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah , "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not.

What do you mean?

If you say whatever about Aisha, does it make you a kafir or not a kafir? Does my belief in the existence of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and the message of his last messenger(S) depend on what I may say or not say about Aisha, one of the wives of the Prophet(S)? How do you reason?

What is your definition of the term kafir?

The shia picking and choosing. 

3:169 Think not of those who are killed in the Way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are alive, with their Lord, and they have provision.

This is talking about barzakh. If the Prophet can hear everyone that calls him even me in London whats the difference between him and Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. 

Tell me if someone accused Fatima (RA) of that it would still make them a kafir so why the hypocrisy and hate for the Prophets wives.

For info on what makes someone a Kafir:

https://islamqa.info/en/85102

[Islandsandmirrors]

You are mixing up a lot of things.

You troll.

[Mohammed72]

58 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Ignored.

You're a waste of server space.

and to my fellow Shia who read his posts beware of this Sunni Wahabbi who comes here to create confusion in the hearts of the ill educated. He's here for that exact reason. Any question which may arise in your hearts I would ask you to ask in a separate thread on this forum as well as ask of your scholars.

Dont be deceived by this shaitan. He's here to create weakness in your Iman by creating confusion in your mind. Ignore this enemy of Shias.

Typical shia who has nothing to say. Accuse him of being a wahabi. Saying wahabi will not hide Abdullah ibn Saba'.Saying wahabi will not hide your shirk. Saying wahabi it will not hide tahreef. Saying wahabi will not hide the truth.

The file I posted shows a confession by a shia scholar that Abdullah ibn Saba' the Yemeni jew was the first person to spread Imammah and the dissocation from the Sahaba (RA). In English:

Allama Hasan Musa Naubahti in his book “Firaq ush shia” wrote:

Some knowlegable people from companions of Ali said that:

“Abdulla ibn Saba was yahudi who accepted islam. He was supporter of Ali . While a Jew, he propounded the exaggerative notion that Yusha ibn Nun was divinely appointed to succeed Prophet Musa, after accepting islam, he adopted a similar stance with regard to `Ali in relation to the Holy Prophet (after his death).

He (ibn Saba) was the first man who told that believe in imamat of Ali is obligatory, and he openly vitriolated his enemies (i.e. the first three Caliphs) and branded them as infidels.”

https://devilsdeceptionofshiism.wordpress.com/2011/07/01/first-shia-scholar-and-founding-father-of-shiism-abdullah-ibn-saba/

This link contains another scan.

Please all Shia, open the Quran and read about the praise Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى gives to the Sahaba (RA). Read about what Allah Says about Calling upon besides him. The Shia on this form try and sugar coat their beliefs by not answering questions and ignoring half of what I say.

48:29 Muhammad (SAW) is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and falling down prostrate (in prayer), seeking Bounty from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. The mark of them (i.e. of their Faith) is on their faces (foreheads) from the traces of (their) prostration (during prayers). This is their description in the Taurat (Torah). But their description in the Injeel (Gospel) is like a (sown) seed which sends forth its shoot, then makes it strong, it then becomes thick, and it stands straight on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the disbelievers with them. Allah has promised those among them who believe (i.e. all those who follow Islamic Monotheism, the religion of Prophet Muhammad SAW till the Day of Resurrection) and do righteous good deeds, forgiveness and a mighty reward (i.e. Paradise).