Choosing breastfeeding mother for a Sayyed

[Zifah]

salam dear brothers and sisters

I am a mother of a Sayyed under 1 year.

This is also so sudden dor me but I am very lucky to be called to do hajj this year. I will take off in this week.

The confirmation is about two weeks before going/take off. (quite sudden, isnt it) 

I pumped and expressed my breastmilk everyday but I am sure it won't be enough for my 40 day trip for hajj.

I looked for breastfeeding mom to give my baby milk indirectly from bottle so that they won't be considered mahram in the future. I got 2 moms.

One of them is a shia, I thought that she is very good person. The other is a sunni. But later I knew that my shia friend's husband is a son of zina. (the father of my friend's baby is a son of zina)

My question: will her breastmilk affected by her husband? 

Or can a sunni mother give breastmilk to my baby?

I am now in a deep doubt about this. Again, my baby is a Sayyed. I want to give the better choice of milk from a good background.

I also heard that for temporary replacement of breastmilk, goat milk is a good choice. which one will be a better choice?

Thank you for your help.

[Guest]

Formula milk would be better than having another woman breastfeed him. Switch him to it gradually before you leave. 

Milk from cows and goats can sometimes lead to an upset stomach or the child being uncomfortable until he gets used to it and you wouldn't want an added stress for the baby on top of him being seperated from you.

[wmehar2]

11 hours ago, Zifah said:

salam dear brothers and sisters

I am a mother of a Sayyed under 1 year.

This is also so sudden dor me but I am very lucky to be called to do hajj this year. I will take off in this week.

The confirmation is about two weeks before going/take off. (quite sudden, isnt it) 

I pumped and expressed my breastmilk everyday but I am sure it won't be enough for my 40 day trip for hajj.

I looked for breastfeeding mom to give my baby milk indirectly from bottle so that they won't be considered mahram in the future. I got 2 moms.

One of them is a shia, I thought that she is very good person. The other is a sunni. But later I knew that my shia friend's husband is a son of zina. (the father of my friend's baby is a son of zina)

My question: will her breastmilk affected by her husband? 

Or can a sunni mother give breastmilk to my baby?

I am now in a deep doubt about this. Again, my baby is a Sayyed. I want to give the better choice of milk from a good background.

 

I also heard that for temporary replacement of breastmilk, goat milk is a good choice. which one will be a better choice?

Thank you for your help.

Walaikumasalaam,

Sayyid baby or not. Whoever is kind enough to nurse your baby with bottle or not,  there is no negative impact based on whom is doing it.

I dont see anything in Quran, or brief searches from Imams that its less preferable for a Sunni or wife if a Zina born husband to care for a son.

I beseech you to Perish these thoughts that have no basis in Islam.

Like Sister @starlight  mentioned you should take more consideration into thinking about using formula milk.

[Sindbad05]

26 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

Walaikumasalaam,

Sayyid baby or not. Whoever is kind enough to nurse your baby with bottle or not,  there is no negative impact based on whom is doing it.

I dont see anything in Quran, or brief searches from Imams that its less preferable for a Sunni or wife if a Zina born husband to care for a son.

I beseech you to Perish these thoughts that have no basis in Islam.

Like Sister @starlight  mentioned you should take more consideration into thinking about using formula milk.

 

Bro it has effects, In islam, it is highly advised to keep such woman for breastfeeding child that is faithful and of good moral character. Breastfeeding also has effects upon children's traits, otherwise, if nothing is transferred to child why will it come with prohibited degree to that woman who breastfeed the child and her children. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Sindbad05

[wmehar2]

1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

Bro it has effects, In islam, it is highly advised to keep such woman for breastfeeding child that is faithful and of good moral character. Breastfeeding also has effects upon children's traits, otherwise, if nothing is transferred to child why will it come with prohibited degree to that woman who breastfeed the child and her children. 

The prophet SAW was breast fed by a non Muslim before her conversion, among other notable Sahaba.

 a Sunni or Shia wet nurse makes no difference, one is not morally superior over the other on a sect basis. 

A woman can have 10 children all with different temperaments, all have the same breast milk.

I ask that you to present me with evidence of what you're saying. 

[Sindbad05]

7 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

The prophet SAW was breast fed by a non Muslim before her conversion, among other notable Sahaba.

 a Sunni or Shia wet nurse makes no difference, one is not morally superior over the other on a sect basis. 

A woman can have 10 children all with different temperaments, all have the same breast milk.

I ask that you to present me with evidence of what you're saying. 

Prophet ( PBUHHP ) according to many scholars drank milk of goat rather than milk of Bibi Halima a.s. They provide for such statement example of Hazrat Moses a.s which was never fed by any unbeliever women but his mother.  Besides, Quran also has vowed to save prophet and his family from uncleanliness forever. So, to me the story of Bibi Halima a.s is accurate for raising prophet but milk of goat was fed to Prophet.  

[wmehar2]

8 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Prophet ( PBUHHP ) according to many scholars drank milk of goat rather than milk of Bibi Halima a.s. They provide for such statement example of Hazrat Moses a.s which was never fed by any unbeliever women but his mother.  Besides, Quran also has vowed to save prophet and his family from uncleanliness forever. So, to me the story of Bibi Halima a.s is accurate for raising prophet but milk of goat was fed to Prophet.  

I guess thats where we disagree.  I'm fairly certain as many scholars are he was breastfed. Halimas family had cows, not goats. I dont see any support for that idea you presented,    But I digress. 

Anyway superstition is Haram. 

We dont believe the children born of zina to have sin according to Allah swt in Quran.

Once again these thoughts have no basis in Islam.

[Sindbad05]

8 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

I guess thats where we disagree.  I'm fairly certain as many scholars are he was breastfed. Halimas family had cows, not goats. I dont see any support for that idea you presented,    But I digress. 

Anyway superstition is Haram. 

We dont believe the children born of zina to have sin according to Allah swt in Quran.

Once again these thoughts have no basis in Islam.

Shall we fight on cows and goats or agree to Quran? 

This is not superstition. Please read about what are orders for meat upon whom Allah's name is not read. It is haram. Similarly, read about why can't we eat with disbelievers. 

Only a person who does not knows about will say that bro that Prophet was breastfed by Bibi Halima a.s who ordered us not to eat food of disbelievers. 

Either Halima a.s believed in religion of Ibrahim a.s or she didn't breastfed prophet. There can only be one possibility. 

[Sindbad05]

Also please read about hadith of Imams which say that Eating haram things will appear in the children of such person. These are not guesses bro. 

[wmehar2]

2 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Shall we fight on cows and goats or agree to Quran? 

This is not superstition. Please read about what are orders for meat upon whom Allah's name is not read. It is haram. Similarly, read about why can't we eat with disbelievers. 

Only a person who does not knows about will say that bro that Prophet was breastfed by Bibi Halima a.s who ordered us not to eat food of disbelievers. 

Either Halima a.s believed in religion of Ibrahim a.s or she didn't breastfed prophet. There can only be one possibility. 

Im saying its superstition to say a shia mom is superior a sunni one on a basis of sect, brother. 

Im also saying its supersition to say one should not choose one to help nurse a child because her husband was born from Zina, these are superstition. 

I digressed with the point of disagreement between you and I, I agree to disagree there since we have differing beliefs concerning her.

[Sindbad05]

Just now, wmehar2 said:

Im saying its superstition to say a shia mom is superior a sunni one on a basis of sect, brother. 

Im also saying its supersition to say one should not choose one to help nurse a child because her husband was born from Zina, these are superstition. 

I digressed with the point of disagreement between you and I, I agree to disagree there since we have differing beliefs concerning her.

I did not talk about sunni or Shia nor I spoke anything about a person who was born illegitimately. I just spoke about religion and since I haven't said anything about that how could you say I agree or disagree with you. It may be that you disagree to what I said about Quran and Prophet and Shariah. 

I just replied in context of the question. And decision depends upon a personal discretion. 

[Sindbad05]

If I see a good sunni woman who is lover of ahlebait a.s, naturally peaceful, chaste, honest and respectable. I would let my child to be breastfed by her instead of being breastfed by a shia woman who is by name a shia and does not deserves to be called as Shia.  

[Sindbad05]

About the wife of that illegitimate person, I would watch how are her children. If they are morally and ethically sound then their family enjoys good religious atmosphere and would allow my child to be breastfed by that woman. Being born illegitimately is not one's hand and such a person, in my opinion and belief is not liable to be treated for other's crime because Quran says "everyone will be responsible for his actions and not others' action".

[realizm]

Dear sister,

It is not about your baby being a Sayed. It is about your baby being YOUR baby. 

You seem to be putting more emphasis on his title than on his well being. I humbly suggest that you get rid of such egoistic reasoning before going to Hajj. And I say it with total courtesy, forgive me if I sound judgemental.

[wmehar2]

7 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

About the wife of that illegitimate person, I would watch how are her children. If they are morally and ethically sound then their family enjoys good religious atmosphere and would allow my child to be breastfed by that woman. Being born illegitimately is not one's hand and such a person, in my opinion and belief is not liable to be treated for other's crime because Quran says "everyone will be responsible for his actions and not others' action".

You cant judge morals of children who are all pure and innocent without sin, even if they're unruly.

A good child today may become evil tomorrow, and vice versa. 

If a couple who are great spiritual and sincere followers that you personally know but have a child that rebels or is extremely difficult, you would not let them breastfeed your child?

The talking of illegitimate children l/superstitions was in reference to @Zifah's post/context and her concerns.  

I think we misunderstood each other, as im keeping it strictly to OP's situation. 

[Sindbad05]

6 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

You cant judge morals of children who are all pure and innocent without sin, even if they're unruly.

A good child today may become evil tomorrow, and vice versa. 

If a couple who are great spiritual and sincere followers that you personally know but have a child that rebels or is extremely difficult, you would not let them breastfeed your child?

The talking of illegitimate children l/superstitions was in reference to @Zifah's post/context and her concerns.  

I think we misunderstood each other, as im keeping it strictly to OP's situation. 

 

Sure, I can't judge children because they will mature someday and may be they change but I can judge their parents, if the child has aggressive behavior and is abusive and morally on lower grounds, their parents fight often and one of them is abusive or morally low that is where-from the child learned such things. So, I would definitely not choose such parents or home bro. 

Again, I reiterate my words, the children of spiritual homes do not abuse and so aggression can be put aside but morality cannot be. 

I did not misunderstood you bro at all, I understood what you meant but I disagreed with some of your beliefs such as Prophet PBUHHP would be fed on milk that was not halal for him. And, it is also incumbent upon parents to try as much as possible to feed their children with lawful things and prevent them from unlawful things. 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Sindbad05

[Sindbad05]

@wmehar2

I just did not want to speak on the issue about whom only a Maraja should speak because I am not allowed to do Ijtehad on my own, there are many Hadith which we do not know but Marajas definitely know it and they are better than us in that field. So, I did not want to speak on the issue of sunni or shia mother or illegitimate husband. Because, through milk the bones of a child are strengthened and his flesh is made, So, we may due to our sympathy towards other can say such things which are harmful for the child who is going to be a mature man or child. 

I just talked to issue about preliminary conditions. That is find those people who are faithful and of good moral character.  

[wmehar2]

6 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

@wmehar2

I just did not want to speak on the issue about whom only a Maraja should speak because I am not allowed to do Ijtehad on my own, there are many Hadith which we do not know but Marajas definitely know it and they are better than us in that field. So, I did not want to speak on the issue of sunni or shia mother or illegitimate husband. Because, through milk the bones of a child are strengthened and his flesh is made, So, we may due to our sympathy towards other can say such things which are harmful for the child who is going to be a mature man or child. 

I just talked to issue about preliminary conditions. That is find those people who are faithful and of good moral character.  

After some quick investigation, it seems Shia side also believed the Prophet SAW was breastfed by at least 2 women  (instead of 3 from the sunni narrative) but breastfed nonetheless. 

I think you need to revaluate/look more into this, as this discussion sparked a more interesting enlightenment opportunity. 

[Sindbad05]

2 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

After some quick investigation, it seems Shia side also believed the Prophet SAW was breastfed by at least 2 women  (instead of 3 from the sunni narrative) but breastfed nonetheless. 

I think you need to revaluate/look more into this, as this discussion sparked a more interesting enlightenment opportunity. 

To me Quran is foundation of all Islamic literature and logic is the criteria to evaluate those things:

If Prophet PBUHHP breastfed by two or three, they have to be monotheists and Muslims and on the religion of Ibrahim a.s otherwise, they would not be able to breastfed prophet PBUHHP.

One of my Imam a.s was asked to have alcohol and He a.s said: "Nothing like this have ever polluted our blood since our ancestors". 

So, if Imam says this, it means Prophet PBUHHP has said it. 

[Sindbad05]

@wmehar2 If you could show me once in his life time Prophet PBUHHP drink a drop of water that was from a usurped well, I would acknowledge this, But that has to be by narrated by Adil man who were not hypocrites and infamous. And I am sure, you will fail in this bro, so, I guess we should stop discussing a thing which is impossible or which contradicts Quran. Prophet PBUHHP said: "Anything that is against Quran but you hear it as my words, throw it on wall". 

I would throw it on wall if whole world agrees upon it that Prophet PBUHHP was breastfed by unbelieving woman. 

[Ron_Burgundy]

14 hours ago, realizm said:

Dear sister,

It is not about your baby being a Sayed. It is about your baby being YOUR baby. 

You seem to be putting more emphasis on his title than on his well being. I humbly suggest that you get rid of such egoistic reasoning before going to Hajj. And I say it with total courtesy, forgive me if I sound judgemental.

Thank you! I don't know when people will realize this. 

[wmehar2]

9 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

To me Quran is foundation of all Islamic literature and logic is the criteria to evaluate those things:

If Prophet PBUHHP breastfed by two or three, they have to be monotheists and Muslims and on the religion of Ibrahim a.s otherwise, they would not be able to breastfed prophet PBUHHP.

One of my Imam a.s was asked to have alcohol and He a.s said: "Nothing like this have ever polluted our blood since our ancestors". 

So, if Imam says this, it means Prophet PBUHHP has said it. 

Its on al islam.

https://www.al-islam.org/glance-life-holy-prophet-islam-dar-rah-haqq/chapter-2-prophets-birth-and-childhood

Halimahs breast swelled and camels and harvests flourished upon the prophets SAW arrival. She did not feed one child goat milk while the rest with her own. @Sindbad05. The quran doesnt say the wet nurse must be a muslim or people of the book.  Show me in Quran where it says the breast feeding mother must be a monotheist. 

﷽

2:233

 Play Copy

Mothers may breastfeed their children two complete years for whoever wishes to complete the nursing [period]. Upon the father is the mothers' provision and their clothing according to what is acceptable. No person is charged with more than his capacity. No mother should be harmed through her child, and no father through his child. And upon the [father's] heir is [a duty] like that [of the father]. And if they both desire weaning through mutual consent from both of them and consultation, there is no blame upon either of them. And if you wish to have your children nursed by a substitute, there is no blame upon you as long as you give payment according to what is acceptable. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Seeing of what you do.

 

[Sindbad05]

3 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

Its on al islam.

https://www.al-islam.org/glance-life-holy-prophet-islam-dar-rah-haqq/chapter-2-prophets-birth-and-childhood

Halimahs breast swelled and camels and harvests flourished upon the prophets SAW arrival. She did not feed one child goat milk while the rest with her own. @Sindbad05. The quran doesnt say the wet nurse must be a muslim or people of the book.  Show me in Quran where it says the breast feeding mother must be a monotheist. 

﷽

2:233

 Play Copy

Mothers may breastfeed their children two complete years for whoever wishes to complete the nursing [period]. Upon the father is the mothers' provision and their clothing according to what is acceptable. No person is charged with more than his capacity. No mother should be harmed through her child, and no father through his child. And upon the [father's] heir is [a duty] like that [of the father]. And if they both desire weaning through mutual consent from both of them and consultation, there is no blame upon either of them. And if you wish to have your children nursed by a substitute, there is no blame upon you as long as you give payment according to what is acceptable. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Seeing of what you do.

 

So, Halimah was a believer.  It proves it. 

[Sindbad05]

5 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

The quran doesnt say the wet nurse must be a muslim or people of the book.  Show me in Quran where it says the breast feeding mother must be a monotheist.

Quran stops you from eating those things on which Allah's name is not taken, please read it in Quran, do you think that Prophet PBUHHP would drink milk from an idolatress who might be eating food in the name of idols ??????

I think, the way Imams taught me. 

[Sindbad05]

Only a woman who has unshakable belief in Allah, will not runaway from those miracles when she learned that her breast has swelled due to Prophet PBUHHP, no other woman could stand such thing. She was a secret keeper. An honest woman who kept Prophet PBUHHP protected. 

Other woman might have ran away bro. 

[wmehar2]

35 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Only a woman who has unshakable belief in Allah, will not runaway from those miracles when she learned that her breast has swelled due to Prophet PBUHHP, no other woman could stand such thing. She was a secret keeper. An honest woman who kept Prophet PBUHHP protected. 

Other woman might have ran away bro. 

In other words she fed him. That's my argument. 

Though halimah did not officially accept  Islam until after battle of Hunayn.

The prophet SAW didn't bring message of monotheism before his time, how was she to know or believe?

Perhaps maybe the Prophet  saw was just an ordinary person before Prophet hood.

These all sound very round about ways and illogical reasons/excuses.   I don't think we really know what the imams taught nor that we know exactly what happened during the prophets birthing.

Like I said, the Quran doesnt state  a monotheistic woman must breast feed, only she be compensated.  And in a time of Jahiliya, where everyone did not recieve the quran, people were not sinners or doing haram on purpose, such that Allah would say they're intentful idoletress/idolaters.  As quran says Allah does punish  until  after a messenger was sent.

When you throw the things you hear from a marja, only then do things not add up it Seems.

Luckily quran says we must question information and not take words blindly from men as certain jews did with rabbis.

Edited August 17, 2017 by wmehar2

[Sindbad05]

45 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

In other words she fed him. That's my argument. 

Though halimah did not officially accept  Islam until after battle of Hunayn.

The prophet SAW didn't bring message of monotheism before his time, how was she to know or believe?

Perhaps maybe the Prophet  saw was just an ordinary person before Prophet hood.

These all sound very round about ways and illogical reasons/excuses.   I don't think we really know what the imams taught nor that we know exactly what happened during the prophets birthing.

Like I said, the Quran doesnt state  a monotheistic woman must breast feed, only she be compensated.  And in a time of Jahiliya, where everyone did not recieve the quran, people were not sinners or doing haram on purpose, such that Allah would say they're intentful idoletress/idolaters.  As quran says Allah does punish  until  after a messenger was sent.

When you throw the things you hear from a marja, only then do things not add up it Seems.

Luckily quran says we must question information and not take words blindly from men as certain jews did with rabbis.

How was Abdul Mutalib a Muslim?  

How were Ashab e kahaf Muslims, since they did not meet Jesus a.s. 

It is not necessary that a Muslim should declare his faith among infidels. 

Sometimes, believers lived a secret life.

[Sindbad05]

59 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

In other words she fed him. That's my argument. 

Though halimah did not officially accept  Islam until after battle of Hunayn.

The prophet SAW didn't bring message of monotheism before his time, how was she to know or believe?

Perhaps maybe the Prophet  saw was just an ordinary person before Prophet hood.

These all sound very round about ways and illogical reasons/excuses.   I don't think we really know what the imams taught nor that we know exactly what happened during the prophets birthing.

Like I said, the Quran doesnt state  a monotheistic woman must breast feed, only she be compensated.  And in a time of Jahiliya, where everyone did not recieve the quran, people were not sinners or doing haram on purpose, such that Allah would say they're intentful idoletress/idolaters.  As quran says Allah does punish  until  after a messenger was sent.

When you throw the things you hear from a marja, only then do things not add up it Seems.

Luckily quran says we must question information and not take words blindly from men as certain jews did with rabbis.

Perhaps occurs in minds of people who are unaware about Prophet PBUHHP. Prophet's birth is sufficient to tell us that he isn't an ordinary person.

How was he an ordinary person for whom famine perished and cows and goats who had no milk yielded milk. 

Why do you think, it's difficult to reach message of monotheism to those in Mecca before Prophet while there were numerous prophet's who lived on that soil. You think all were ignorant before it? 

Do you think Mehdi a.s will come when there be no Muslims?  I beg to differ bro. There are Muslims but they are rare and Mehdi a.s will come to revive message again.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Sindbad05

[wmehar2]

39 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Perhaps occurs in minds of people who are unaware about Prophet PBUHHP. Prophet's birth is sufficient to tell us that he isn't an ordinary person.

How was he an ordinary person for whom famine perished and cows and goats who had no milk yielded milk. 

Why do you think, it's difficult to reach message of monotheism to those in Mecca before Prophet while there were numerous prophet's who lived on that soil. You think all were ignorant before it? 

Do you think Mehdi a.s will come when there be no Muslims?  I beg to differ bro. There are Muslims but they are rare and Mehdi a.s will come to revive message again.

Well, this conversation could take a turn into something not related to the thread/topic, which  I don't mind.  But it would involve spiraling into concepts such as Monotheistic people considered Muslims, and therefore possibly Mumin, and destroy the whole idea /concept of Mumin versus just muslim.

So I won't go further on that topic.

And the Prophet SAW ultimately did declare his faith to teach those "infidels" you called, to not be "infidels"  Because spreading God's message is more important than hiding it, if it means progress towards peace on the planet, and making the lives of humans pure, clean, and structured and to help them get to Heaven.  The Prophet SAW was not such a man to starve the people of much needed knowledge to improve their lives.

Tying it back to this discussion,  I don't think its right to assume things from Hadith as truth.  I can however shape things around Qu'ran because that is the only thing I can assert as truth to all of you, myself, and others.

Deflecting my statements from Qur'an using Hadiths from Imams or the Prophet AS on them all, I will not accept.  Which ultimately boils down to the futility of our conversation, brother =\ .   

I try to use what the Qu'ran says, and I'll make this simple and not complicated, and agree with you, that we as muslims should try to find morally upright people, which Halimah was as she took in the prophet SAW when she didn't have to, and that demonstrated her character. 

Since  Lady Aminah couldn't compensate Halimah, Allah SWT did so in her stead.  I don't think it was the presence of Prophet SAW alone that made her breasts and land blessed, because Qur'an says it is the Man who must pay/compensate and provide in verse 2:233.  Since the Prophet's father was dead AS/SAW, and Aminah could not provide, Allah SWT acted on His words and compensated Halimah.  It wasn't the miracle of the Prophet SAW alone that did it, and that is in alignment with Qur'an.

This is what I believe, you may believe different but that's cool man. 

Now that I've read more in this @starlight  It seems actually that baby formula seems to actually NOT recommended now that I've read into this more.  It seems the Quran strictly says mothers must breastfed ...

 

[notme]

Why is goat milk more "pure" than the milk of a mother? 

Nowadays, though, infant formula is quite healthy. It lacks the antibodies found in the mother's milk, but supplies all necessary nutrients. If a mother has doubts about another woman feeding her child, and she is unable, she can opt for formula with no harm to the child. 

[Sindbad05]

1 hour ago, wmehar2 said:

And the Prophet SAW ultimately did declare his faith to teach those "infidels" you called, to not be "infidels"  Because spreading God's message is more important than hiding it, if it means progress towards peace on the planet, and making the lives of humans pure, clean, and structured and to help them get to Heaven.  The Prophet SAW was not such a man to starve the people of much needed knowledge to improve their lives.

If Prophet PBUHHP would have considerable number of people to support him, He PBUHHP would have declared his prophethood in the cradle just like Jesus a.s did. Neither Prophet PBUHHP nor Moses a.s openly propagated Islam unless they thought there are some people who can carry their message onwards with the permission of Allah AWJ. When rumors begin to be spread in the battle of Uhud that Prophet PBUHHP had been martyred, the people from Jews came to a companion may be it was Hazrat Huzaifah a.s. So, people said him that now your prophet had been martyred so come back to your religion. Upon that Hazrat Huzaifah a.s said that should I leave the true religion and go with you. And Quran said that such believers know Prophet PBUHHP more than their own children. And mentioning hypocrites, Quran said that will you turn away from religion, if Prophet PBUHHP is more among you. 

So, this was the reason of the prophet not to declare his message until Allah AWJ strengthen Deen with the support of good number of people and during that time, Hazrat Bibi Halema a.s and Banu Abdul Mutalib kept silent. 

You are now again assuming things, Messengers come only to revive the previous Shariah and bring new information which the earlier shariah did not include. I did not say whole of the Arabia was Momineen, I say few were Momineen and majority of them were infidels that is why Prophet PBUHHP did not openly propagated this message in the beginning. 

And yes, God's message is more important, but God says to watch the situation first and then spread the message in the best possible way and not just go and spread message which bring harm to you. Like Moses a.s kept hidden his message for certain time, Prophet PBUHHP also kept hidden his message to openly propagate.

1 hour ago, wmehar2 said:

Tying it back to this discussion,  I don't think its right to assume things from Hadith as truth.  I can however shape things around Qu'ran because that is the only thing I can assert as truth to all of you, myself, and others.

Again taking wrong, I did not assumed things, Should I believe in a hadith that is against Quran ? While prophet PBUHHP stopped us eating food from Hindus and Atheists because they do not take name of God upon food, you think Prophet PBUHHP would allow for himself and then you are saying that he was normal person lolz, Am I assuming things or you are speaking what is not in Quran and lowering down the status of Prophet to suit what you believe ? 

I did not lower down the status of Prophet PBUHHP, you said may be he was ordinary and I said if he was ordinary, how come all the idols fell on grounds, how did great fire in persia stopped, how did all magicians lost their minds, how did famine was changed into harvest ?

You thought me wrong before and now again repeating same mistake bro. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, wmehar2 said:

Now that I've read more in this @starlight  It seems actually that baby formula seems to actually NOT recommended now that I've read into this more.  It seems the Quran strictly says mothers must breastfeed

But the mother has opted to go on hajj and she asked advice regarding a substitute. If I were in her place I'd rather give my baby formula than have another woman nurse him. 

[wmehar2]

15 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

You are now again assuming things, Messengers come only to revive the previous Shariah and bring new information which the earlier shariah did not include. I did not say whole of the Arabia was Momineen, I say few were Momineen and majority of them were infidels that is why Prophet PBUHHP did not openly propagated this message in the beginning. 

Look man, I don't believe that the Prophet knew he was a Prophet for certain SAW, we differ here.  I can't really argue or convince you nor do I really want to man, and that's fine.  To be honest its fine if he did or didn't, I don't think it affects our deens here.  I don't know the truth just assumed like you're saying.  Also, the Prophet SAW ended up fighting the whole of Arabia anyways.   But either way we progress further with this point, its futile. 

 

15 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

And yes, God's message is more important, but God says to watch the situation first and then spread the message in the best possible way and not just go and spread message which bring harm to you. Like Moses a.s kept hidden his message for certain time, Prophet PBUHHP also kept hidden his message to openly propagate.

Also, earlier messengers were killed for revealing the message given to them.  Did they disobey?  It seems many of times according to Qur'an messengers came and failed to spread the message, so why did God ask the messengers to do it, if it was set up to fail and mean their vainly deaths?  Unless, they didn't know they were to be Prophet's and only acted when it was revealed to them that they are.  But hey that's my line of logic, its completely fine if you disagree.

15 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Again taking wrong, I did not assumed things, Should I believe in a hadith that is against Quran ? While prophet PBUHHP stopped us eating food from Hindus and Atheists because they do not take name of God upon food, you think Prophet PBUHHP would allow for himself and then you are saying that he was normal person lolz, Am I assuming things or you are speaking what is not in Quran and lowering down the status of Prophet to suit what you believe ? 

I did not lower down the status of Prophet PBUHHP, you said may be he was ordinary and I said if he was ordinary, how come all the idols fell on grounds, how did great fire in persia stopped, how did all magicians lost their minds, how did famine was changed into harvest ?

You thought me wrong before and now again repeating same mistake bro. 

Allah SWT caused the Idols to fall, Allah stopped the fire, Allah turned famine to harvest.  Not the Prophet SAW.  But we see different sides of the coin here.  This how I perceive history to have transpired.  It was Allah SWT who sent down angels to help during battles, the same token applies Allah helped these people.   Causation is not correlation.

This is what I believe, and what you believe is different man. I don't think we're converging towards agreement.  Maybe you don't believe your assumptions are assumptions, but I know my assumptions are assumptions and I still perceive yours to be as well. 

 

[wmehar2]

1 hour ago, starlight said:

But the mother has opted to go on hajj and she asked advice regarding a substitute. If I were in her place I'd rather give my baby formula than have another woman nurse him. 

*shrug* I'm just pointing out what I read for your edification.  The Qur'an says:

"Mothers may breastfeed their children two complete years for whoever wishes to complete the nursing [period]. Upon the father is the mothers' provision and their clothing according to what is acceptable. No person is charged with more than his capacity. No mother should be harmed through her child, and no father through his child. And upon the [father's] heir is [a duty] like that [of the father]. And if they both desire weaning through mutual consent from both of them and consultation, there is no blame upon either of them. And if you wish to have your children nursed by a substitute, there is no blame upon you as long as you give payment according to what is acceptable. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Seeing of what you do."

It seems she won't have enough of her own supply for the 40 days...  So the greater question is how much supply does she have?

Considering all the underlined points, it seems the Quran says if you wish to breast feed, then breast feed for 2 years, if you wish to not do the 2 years, then with consent/consultation you can wean the baby off the breast feed prior to that  2 year period.  It seems to advise against the baby switching back and forth between different milk/food sources UNLESS they are breast milk.  If the child is going to get off breast milk, it must be weaned and remain off the breast milk.

But hmmmmm....  it says no person is charged beyond their capacity.  If she can't find a suitable substitute wet nurse, I don't see how formula milk can be wrong.  But if she has options for a substitute nurse I don't think formula milk is advised the way to go. 

And I guess earlier from what we're discussing above ( @Sindbad05 and @realizm etc.), a woman with good moral standards (regardless of the status of how the  wet nurses husband  was born or Sayyid status of the child) that is trustworthy and not kufr is the best kind. It is also Regardless with sect identification the nurse belongs.  It seems she has suitable substitutes on both ends.  And it seems to agree with @notme's elegant but brief response.

Far be it from me to decide or know for certain the best approach.  What do you think?  I'm struggling with all of this.

Edited August 17, 2017 by wmehar2

[ShiaMan14]

If a boy is fed goat milk and that goat has a kid who it also feeds - are the boy and the goat-kid brothers?

If the boy is then fed that kid, is he literaly eating the flesh of his brother????