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John_313

[Closed/Review]Arguments against Khomeini-US relations claims?

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Assalamu alaikum

As many are aware, there are many conspiracy theories that the Revolution in Iran was a Western made up conflict because the shah was becoming more nationalist and getting "out of their hands". So they destroyed the regime and made it appear as it was anti-West (just like they are thought to have done with ISIS).

I only want Revolution defenders' response to such accusations...

I would appreciate if you don't get out of the topic and please reply through rational thinking.

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I am curious who comes up with these conspiracy theories - Yasir Al-Habib? I wouldn't be surprised if it was him.

If the Shah was getting out of their hands, they could have simply have him assassinated instead of coming up with a plan to cause the Revolution and put Ayatollah Khomeini into power, only to fight him for the next 8-9 years in the Iran-Iraq war.

The sole reason for the West putting Saddam into power was to go to war with Iran and remove Ayatollah Khomeini.

There are conspiracy theories and then there are asinine theories. This one is the latter and only the most gullible dimwits would believe it. But then, all Yasir Al-Habib fans are exactly that.

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12 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

coming up with a plan to cause the Revolution and put Ayatollah Khomeini into power, only to fight him for the next 8-9 years in the Iran-Iraq war.

The Iran-Iraq war was 8 years. 1980-1988. 

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On 7/31/2017 at 4:09 PM, shiaman14 said:

I am curious who comes up with these conspiracy theories - Yasir Al-Habib? I wouldn't be surprised if it was him.

If the Shah was getting out of their hands, they could have simply have him assassinated instead of coming up with a plan to cause the Revolution and put Ayatollah Khomeini into power, only to fight him for the next 8-9 years in the Iran-Iraq war.

The sole reason for the West putting Saddam into power was to go to war with Iran and remove Ayatollah Khomeini.

There are conspiracy theories and then there are asinine theories. This one is the latter and only the most gullible dimwits would believe it. But then, all Yasir Al-Habib fans are exactly that.

No it's not Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha) the one who comes up with these conspiracy theories... take a look at these links:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/36431160

And other links as well:

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2008/10/was-khomeini-agent-of-us-and-uk.html?m=1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British–Ruhollah_Khomeini_conspiracy_theory

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/ayatollah-khomeini-jimmy-carter-administration-iran-revolution

and many many many others, at least just do a little research...

You (anti-AlHabib and anti-Shirazis) have failed to show a single proof that Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha) is a British agent. I have shown you evidences why it's irrational to suggest that he (ha) is a western agent, in many topics... However there seems to be overwhelming evidence that the Iran Revolution was US made.

Again, let me repeat: please don't get out of topic!

Yes, in many cases major conflicts are made to seem like that, who do you think was behind WW2 supporting both Nazi Germany and Soviet Union just to make a justification to create the state of Israel?

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17 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I am curious who comes up with these conspiracy theories - Yasir Al-Habib? I wouldn't be surprised if it was him.

If the Shah was getting out of their hands, they could have simply have him assassinated instead of coming up with a plan to cause the Revolution and put Ayatollah Khomeini into power, only to fight him for the next 8-9 years in the Iran-Iraq war.

The sole reason for the West putting Saddam into power was to go to war with Iran and remove Ayatollah Khomeini.

There are conspiracy theories and then there are asinine theories. This one is the latter and only the most gullible dimwits would believe it. But then, all Yasir Al-Habib fans are exactly that.

Salam alaykoum brother,

There are many corrupt religious figures out there. I'm sure you are aware. Yasir Al-Habib isn't as bad as you claim. There is negative stigma attached to him, and I see it as people not willing to listen to him fully. The people who attack him, watch part of a lecture on one issue he combats and attack him because they differ in opinion. There are wonderful lectures by Yasir and I would suggest you to find the good in him. I will never praise any lecturer or speaker and have any fond affection to any. But it is nice to try to locate the good in people. Allah will judge the rest.

Regarding the conspiracy theories, anyone can have their say about a particular issue. You have no idea who is correct and who is not. I am sure you don't work for Khamenei nor do you work for Yasir. I wouldn't assume about these figures because you don't know enough about them both. Ultimately they only show what they wish to show.

Khameni has done some wonderful things but you cannot forget the corruption in Iran and oppression that he has played a part. The same with Habib. He has said some wonderful things but he has also made mistakes.

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On 8/1/2017 at 5:21 AM, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

No it's not Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha) the one who comes up with these conspiracy theories... take a look at these links:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/36431160

And other links as well:

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2008/10/was-khomeini-agent-of-us-and-uk.html?m=1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British–Ruhollah_Khomeini_conspiracy_theory

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/ayatollah-khomeini-jimmy-carter-administration-iran-revolution

and many many many others, at least just do a little research...

You (anti-AlHabib and anti-Shirazis) have failed to show a single proof that Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha) is a British agent. I have shown you evidences why it's irrational to suggest that he (ha) is a western agent, in many topics... However there seems to be overwhelming evidence that the Iran Revolution was US made.

Again, let me repeat: please don't get out of topic!

Yes, in many cases major conflicts are made to seem like that, who do you think was behind WW2 supporting both Nazi Germany and Soviet Union just to make a justification to create the state of Israel?

A couple of blogs and wikipedia is overwhelming evidence? I, sincerely, hope you are not a lawyer because you will lose every case.

On 8/1/2017 at 5:21 AM, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

You (anti-AlHabib and anti-Shirazis) have failed to show a single proof that Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha) is a British agent

I havent shown any evidence but the writing is on the wall. A no-name nobody rotting in jail in Kuwait gets bail, moves to England and comes into millions of pounds. Nothing sinister there. I wish all of us are that lucky...or British agents.

On 8/1/2017 at 8:19 AM, beladalrafidan said:

There are many corrupt religious figures out there. I'm sure you are aware. Yasir Al-Habib isn't as bad as you claim. There is negative stigma attached to him, and I see it as people not willing to listen to him fully. The people who attack him, watch part of a lecture on one issue he combats and attack him because they differ in opinion. There are wonderful lectures by Yasir and I would suggest you to find the good in him. I will never praise any lecturer or speaker and have any fond affection to any. But it is nice to try to locate the good in people. Allah will judge the rest.

I saw a video of Yasir Al-Habib cutting a cake celebrating the death of Hz Aisha and raising balloons. That is all I need to see to know exactly who he is. If you read my posts on the Shia/Sunni thread, you will find plenty that I say against Hz Aisha BUT I discuss facts and do not insult her.

No legitimate scholar would ever do that unless his objective is to create fitna in the local and international community.

No one of would bear to watch a video where some wahabis or salafi celebrate Ashura but hosting parties and cutting cake, etc so would we do that?

There may be some good lectures by YaH but I am sure I can find good speeches by Hitler and Saddam as well.

Best-case scenario: YaH is a dimwit nutjob who can't tell his foot from his head so he does these attention-grabbing things to get morons to support him and give him more money.

Worst-case scenario: He is a British agent with the objective of creating fitna across the Muslim community and we all know the British policy of "Divide and Conquer". 

Unfortunately, there are a lot of over-emotional and under-intelligent shias much like Abu Musa Al-Ashari (in Imam Ali's time) who end up following nutjobs or foreign agents.

 

On 8/1/2017 at 8:19 AM, beladalrafidan said:

Regarding the conspiracy theories, anyone can have their say about a particular issue. You have no idea who is correct and who is not. I am sure you don't work for Khamenei nor do you work for Yasir. I wouldn't assume about these figures because you don't know enough about them both. Ultimately they only show what they wish to show.

I am under the taqleed of Ayatollah Sistani. I dont believe the concept of WF applies to people outside of Iran. At the same time, there is no comparison between YaH and Ayatollah Khamenei. One is a Bristish agent causing division in the community. The other saved Syria and Iraq from complete destruction.

Had Ayatollah Khamenei not stepped in Syria, the shrine of hz Zainab (as) would not be standing today. Had Ayatollah Khamenei not stepped in Iraq, there wouldn't be a single shia shrine in Iraq. And then people like YaH would accuse Aaytollah Khamenei of not doing anything to help the shia.

And it really doesnt matter why Ayatolah Khamenei stepped in to help in Iraq and Syria. My interests were served so every single shia in the world is in debt to him and Ayatollah Sistani who really guided us in the toughest of times. Granted they received wisdom and guidance from the Hujjat and from Allah, nevertheless it was their actions and leadership.

What did Yasir Al-Habib do? Cut some cake!!!

On 8/1/2017 at 8:19 AM, beladalrafidan said:

Khameni has done some wonderful things but you cannot forget the corruption in Iran and oppression that he has played a part. The same with Habib. He has said some wonderful things but he has also made mistakes.

Would you blame Imam Ali (as) if there were corrupt governors under his leadership?

Just today, I read that former President Ahmedinjad is being tried for corruption.

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@shiaman14thank you for your input. I appreciate your view point and it's okay to differ. As regards to celebrating the death of Omar and Aisha, this is common practice for those who follow Shirazi HA. Eid AlZahra is a very important Eid for us. I hope you respect the rulings of other maraja'. You have mentioned much of your own opinion and no historical facts and I differ from you in this regard. The protection of the holy sites in Iraq and Syria was not so because of one hand, and hence your view is solely opinionated. All respect due to your opinion. Ultimately I will refrain from the back and forth of my view and your view because solely Allah knows best. Salam alaykoum. 

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13 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

@shiaman14thank you for your input. I appreciate your view point and it's okay to differ. As regards to celebrating the death of Omar and Aisha, this is common practice for those who follow Shirazi HA. Eid AlZahra is a very important Eid for us. I hope you respect the rulings of other maraja'. 

Salaam brother.

I celebrate Eid-e-Zahra (9th Rabi-ul-Awal) with great joy every year. That is different from cutting cake celebrating the death of Hz Aisha.

13 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

You have mentioned much of your own opinion and no historical facts and I differ from you in this regard. The protection of the holy sites in Iraq and Syria was not so because of one hand, and hence your view is solely opinionated. All respect due to your opinion. Ultimately I will refrain from the back and forth of my view and your view because solely Allah knows best. Salam alaykoum. 

So Iranian military is not helping in Iraq and Syria?

Simple question brother - who played a bigger role in the protection of the shrines in Iraq and Syria (pick one):

A) Yasir Al-Habib
B) Ayatollah Khamenei and Ayatollah Sistani

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13 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Salaam brother.

I celebrate Eid-e-Zahra (9th Rabi-ul-Awal) with great joy every year. That is different from cutting cake celebrating the death of Hz Aisha.

So Iranian military is not helping in Iraq and Syria?

Simple question brother - who played a bigger role in the protection of the shrines in Iraq and Syria (pick one):

A) Yasir Al-Habib
B) Ayatollah Khamenei and Ayatollah Sistani

I don't Celebrate the death of Aisha either but I see no issue in it. If he wants to celebrate her death that's his problem not mine. I didn't say they weren't helping, but it's a shared aid not solely him. Without him I'm sure we would have managed. Yasir habib is a lecturer, you cannot compare a lecturer with 2 Grand ayatollahs. Of course ayatoallahs have a greater role to play. 

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12 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

I don't Celebrate the death of Aisha either but I see no issue in it. If he wants to celebrate her death that's his problem not mine. 

yes he can do what he wants but when he does it publicly and it creates fitna, then it becomes a problem.

Allah is very strict against fitna-mongers.

12 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

I didn't say they weren't helping, but it's a shared aid not solely him. Without him I'm sure we would have managed. 

Absolutely, we would have managed. But he was there and he did help so we should be thankful and not dismissive.

12 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

Yasir habib is a lecturer, you cannot compare a lecturer with 2 Grand ayatollahs. Of course ayatoallahs have a greater role to play. 

I would never compare the YaH to anyone. but when you say,

On 8/1/2017 at 9:19 AM, beladalrafidan said:

Khameni has done some wonderful things but you cannot forget the corruption in Iran and oppression that he has played a part. The same with Habib. He has said some wonderful things but he has also made mistakes.

it seems like you are comparing.

Anyway, Ayatollah Khomeini was right for Iran with or without the US' help. For 8 years, the whole world (at least the West) was against Ayatollah Khomeini and he persevered. 

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@shiaman14 it is not your place to decide whether celebrating the death of aisha is okay or not. I doubt you are scholar. Unless you are learned in the field then speak. Therefore, you cannot say it is fitna without being sure that is wrong. I personally do not see it as fitna brother. I'm not dismissive and I'm thankful to each and every man who helped cure Iraq and Syria from the rebels. It was a comparison on other grounds brother, but it doesn't matter. Thank you for remaining civlised while we differed in opinion. Fe A'man Allah 

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12 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

@shiaman14 it is not your place to decide whether celebrating the death of aisha is okay or not. I doubt you are scholar. Unless you are learned in the field then speak. Therefore, you cannot say it is fitna without being sure that is wrong. I personally do not see it as fitna brother. I'm not dismissive and I'm thankful to each and every man who helped cure Iraq and Syria from the rebels. It was a comparison on other grounds brother, but it doesn't matter. Thank you for remaining civlised while we differed in opinion. Fe A'man Allah 

This is kind of the problem when people run out of arguments, they start saying the other person isn't a scholar. Refute the logic instead. Certain things are code of conduct, show us where the 12 imams, ulama and marjas of today "celebrated" the death of Aisha. If you claim unicorns exists, you can't expect me to prove they don't. You made the claim, you have to prove the truth of it. 

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48 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

A couple of blogs and wikipedia is overwhelming evidence?

Oh, BBC, The Guardian and many more articles (do your own research at least) by famous news networks are not reliable? Did you even read where their sources come from?

48 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

I havent shown any evidence but the writing is on the wall. A no-name nobody rotting in jail in Kuwait gets bail, moves to England and comes into millions of pounds. Nothing sinister there. I wish all of us are that lucky...or British agents.

What about Khomeini, how did the shah act towards him when he spoke up. Didn't the same thing happen with Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha) when protesting a tyrannical government? As for the millions, I guess how are you going to prove them, from the same news networks I offered?

Why does it have to be Britain the one who sponsors Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha), but it cannot be France the one who sponsored Khomeini?

48 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

I saw a video of Yasir Al-Habib cutting a cake celebrating the death of Hz Aisha and raising balloons. That is all I need to see to know exactly who he is. If you read my posts on the Shia/Sunni thread, you will find plenty that I say against Hz Aisha BUT I discuss facts and do not insult her.

No legitimate scholar would ever do that unless his objective is to create fitna in the local and international community.

Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha) answers your very complaint in his website through authentic Hadith. Not only did legitimate scholars do that, but even our Imams (as) performed such act. Astaghfirullah brother, did our Imams (as), the masoom act in such way to create disorder in local and international community? May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى guide you! Ameen!

http://alqatrah.net/en/an244

1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Had Ayatollah Khamenei not stepped in Syria, the shrine of hz Zainab (as) would not be standing today. Had Ayatollah Khamenei not stepped in Iraq, there wouldn't be a single shia shrine in Iraq.

And how do you know that all these conflicts were not made up in order to create a theater just like they did during WW2, supporting both terrorist and Shia groups in order to create chaos and profit from it? The evidences seem very reliable to me.

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12 hours ago, repenter said:

This is kind of the problem when people run out of arguments, they start saying the other person isn't a scholar. Refute the logic instead. Certain things are code of conduct, show us where the 12 imams, ulama and marjas of today "celebrated" the death of Aisha. If you claim unicorns exists, you can't expect me to prove they don't. You made the claim, you have to prove the truth of it. 

@beladalrafidan didn't run out of arguments, I showed you arguments obove while answering @shiaman14...

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12 hours ago, repenter said:

This is kind of the problem when people run out of arguments, they start saying the other person isn't a scholar. Refute the logic instead. Certain things are code of conduct, show us where the 12 imams, ulama and marjas of today "celebrated" the death of Aisha. If you claim unicorns exists, you can't expect me to prove they don't. You made the claim, you have to prove the truth of it. 

Salam alaykoum. I can believe whatever I wish brother and you can too. My scholar allows to celebrate the death of Omar and I see no issue in celebrating the death of Aisha. I hope you may at least accept my beliefs if you cannot respect it. 

Im not a scholar to prove everything and I'm not learned enough to do so. Alhamdialah for our scholars who are more knowledgeable than ourselves. 

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13 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

Salam alaykoum. I can believe whatever I wish brother and you can too. My scholar allows to celebrate the death of Omar and I see no issue in celebrating the death of Aisha. I hope you may at least accept my beliefs if you cannot respect it. 

I would assume your scholar is Sayed Sadiq Shirazi right? 

This is his view on these celebrations from his website.

Question: Is it permissible to celebrate the death anniversary of enemies of Allah?

It is permissible to do so provided that it does not cross the Islamic barriers and boundaries of ethical practices. Meaning, that it would consist of a lecture and it would be considered an educational gathering. Rather than an atmosphere of chaos.
 
Based on what you probably know, the death celebration that happened in London by YH was most obviously chaotic and unethical, meaning that the criteria given by their marji' was not obeyed and completely ignored.

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12 hours ago, emceemo40 said:

I would assume your scholar is Sayed Sadiq Shirazi right? 

This is his view on these celebrations from his website.

Question: Is it permissible to celebrate the death anniversary of enemies of Allah?

It is permissible to do so provided that it does not cross the Islamic barriers and boundaries of ethical practices. Meaning, that it would consist of a lecture and it would be considered an educational gathering. Rather than an atmosphere of chaos.
 
Based on what you probably know, the death celebration that happened in London by YH was most obviously chaotic and unethical, meaning that the criteria given by their marji' was not obeyed and completely ignored.

Like I said, I don't celebrate it. All I said was that it's not wrong. I didn't see how Yasir celebrated it therefore I cannot speak of it. 

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12 hours ago, emceemo40 said:

I would assume your scholar is Sayed Sadiq Shirazi right? 

This is his view on these celebrations from his website.

Question: Is it permissible to celebrate the death anniversary of enemies of Allah?

It is permissible to do so provided that it does not cross the Islamic barriers and boundaries of ethical practices. Meaning, that it would consist of a lecture and it would be considered an educational gathering. Rather than an atmosphere of chaos.
 
Based on what you probably know, the death celebration that happened in London by YH was most obviously chaotic and unethical, meaning that the criteria given by their marji' was not obeyed and completely ignored.

How was it chaotic and unethical when It consisted of food and recitations. Do you know what the Islamic barriers and boundaries of ethical practices in this case are? How did the performed celebration by Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha) cause an atmosphere of chaos?

I'm surprised and shocked of your ignorance.

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14 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

@shiaman14 it is not your place to decide whether celebrating the death of aisha is okay or not. I doubt you are scholar. Unless you are learned in the field then speak. Therefore, you cannot say it is fitna without being sure that is wrong. I personally do not see it as fitna brother. I'm not dismissive and I'm thankful to each and every man who helped cure Iraq and Syria from the rebels. It was a comparison on other grounds brother, but it doesn't matter. Thank you for remaining civlised while we differed in opinion. Fe A'man Allah 

Firstly brother - I am definitely NOT a scholar. Read the following ayah:

[Shakir 6:108] And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did.
[Pickthal 6:108] Revile not those unto whom they pray beside Allah lest they wrongfully revile Allah through ignorance. Thus unto every nation have We made their deed seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return, and He will tell them what they used to do.
[Yusufali 6:108] Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did.

While no one claims Hz Aisha to be Allah nor do we claim any Aimmah to be Allah, Islam does lay the principal of not abusing revered figures. Consequently, a cake on Hz Aisha's death will be answered by Ashura festivities and celebrations. Both these acts will result in hatred, anger and animosity among Muslims. This is the very definition of fitna.

[Shakir 2:11] And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers.
[Pickthal 2:11] And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only.
[Yusufali 2:11] When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"

13 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Oh, BBC, The Guardian and many more articles (do your own research at least) by famous news networks are not reliable? Did you even read where their sources come from?

I guess next you will tell me FoxNews is a reliable source as well.

13 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

What about Khomeini, how did the shah act towards him when he spoke up. Didn't the same thing happen with Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha) when protesting a tyrannical government? As for the millions, I guess how are you going to prove them, from the same news networks I offered?

Lol. YaH was in jail for insulting the sahaba, not for protesting Kuwaiti government.

13 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Why does it have to be Britain the one who sponsors Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha), but it cannot be France the one who sponsored Khomeini?

Because YaH lives there now on a plush millions of pounds worht of property.

13 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha) answers your very complaint in his website through authentic Hadith. Not only did legitimate scholars do that, but even our Imams (as) performed such act.

Imams cut cake???

13 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

And how do you know that all these conflicts were not made up in order to create a theater just like they did during WW2, supporting both terrorist and Shia groups in order to create chaos and profit from it? The evidences seem very reliable to me.

Just to be clear - Ayatollah Khamenei and Ayatollah Sistani are part of the theater of war. Is that what you are saying?

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As for arguments against these claims, @SheikhAlHabib'fan, for one, we have a principle in the Holy Qur'an:

O ye who believe! if a wicked person comes to you with any news ascertain the truth lest ye harm people unwittingly and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done. [49:6]

Based on that principle, who is coming up with these rumours and theories? Is it a mu'min or a fasiq/kafir? It seems to me that such theories are coming from fasiqs or kafirs, therefore we shouldn't believe them just by reading an article on the internet.

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3 hours ago, E.L King said:

To claim Islam is against all insulting and abuse is not true brother, if that's what you meant @shiaman14. The fuqaha don't say this, I'm sure you know about the hadith of Dawud bin Sarhan:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235031376-the-controversial-hadith-of-dawood-bin-sarhan/

Salaam brother,

I didn't say all but definitely not in a public setting. There is a time and place for everything.

I am not even sure there are documented evidences of the Prophet (saw) or the Imams or the AhlulBayt insulting and abusing anyone.

Even in the court of Yazid, Imam Sajjad (as) and Hz Zainab (as) put Yazid in his place by speaking the truth but not resorting to abuse and vulgarity.

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The amateur video that was posted above is a clip of Sheikh Yasser Al-Habib slashing a cake into pieces. Not only the cake had an inappropriate slogan against a wife of the Holy Prophet SA but the audience members were singing the same slogan. ShiaChat has rules. The post with the video was removed and the reply by another member which quoted the video was removed. Unapproved posts will not be approved. 

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