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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why we don't have 313 yet?

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1 hour ago, AliMohammed said:

Mashallah making your own conclusions to who the 313 are, disregarding ahadith all together as to what these 313 have for attributes.

Try to think with your brain for a second please, try googling the descriptions of the 313 and read on them, then ponder can a non muslim be of these descriptions and stop making your own deductions "312 will be ready and the last one will be a revert by the hands of the mahdi" what kind of logic is this? This is not from the books of ahadith, you can not make things up you silly goose.

Right, so you are the one with preconceived notions about who you want the 313 to be and then saying that I am drawing conclusions.

My only conclusion is that the 313 are who Allah and the Imam determine them to be. So whether it is a 1-day revert or a 100-yr old born shia - makes no difference to me.

1 hour ago, AliMohammed said:

Wallahi you people kill me with your ignorance.

and yet  you are still alive. Hmmmmmmmm...

1 hour ago, monad said:

perhaps you guys should refer to the narrations?. There is a whole book on it.......

one thing is certain - when Imam's (as) mission starts, the 313 will be his shia and believe in his wilayah 100%. The only dispute is if @AliMohammed will allow the Imam (as) to make a revert one of his 313.

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On 7/31/2017 at 4:20 PM, shiaman14 said:

313 will be his shia and believe in his wilayah 100%. The only dispute is if @AliMohammed will allow the Imam (as) to make a revert one of his 313.

You seem confused, this will be my last reply to you, believe in what you believe i will not waste your or my time after this.

1. The whole concept of the 313 is that they are real followers of ahlulbayt, they are the real shia of ahlulbayt, they spend their whole lifetimes in the path of Islam, learning and teaching.

2. I am not claiming that a revert can not become in his life time (before the reappearance) a shia and be of these attributes and among the 313, of course they can and i am sure there will be lots of reverts.

3. My only problem is here, how can a person be regarded as one of these great personalities, when they haven't embraced the true religion of Islam and become real pious personalities?

I will link some videos that speak your language, inshallah you will come to know what i mean when claim that a non muslim can not immediately be regarded as one of the 313, (lest they revert in their lifetime and become believers, before the advent of the reappearance)

 

Biharul Anwar, vol 52, pg 307-308  Imam Sadiq ع:

Their hearts are stronger than iron. 
They will be having complete faith in Allah. There is no place for doubts in their hearts. 
They shall be tougher than stones. They will uproot the mountain only by turning towards it. 
They will conquer every city they enter with their standard. 
They are like swift eagles, mounted on fast horses. 
They will touch the saddle of Imam’s ع mount to seek blessings. 
They will be encircling Imam ع to safeguard him from all calamities and misfortune. 
They will fulfill every desire of Imam ع with their heart and soul. 
They will not sleep in the nights. 
They will buzz like honeybees in their prayers. 
They will pass the night in worship and in the morning they will be seen mounted on horses, ready for helping Imam ع. 
They will be devout worshippers by the night and like the lions in the day. 
They will be more submissive and obedient to Imam ع than a maidservant. 
They are like burning lamps and their hearts are like glowing beacons. 
They are fearful of Allah and testify to His Unity. 
They are hopeful of martyrdom in the Way of Allah. 
Their slogan will be “O Avenger of Husain!” (يالثارات الحسين)
When they march, their awe will precede them by a distance of one month’s journey. 
These are the ones who seek Allah’s Pleasure. 
Allah will help Imam ع through them.

'I am seeing Qaem (a.t.f.s.) and his companions in Kufa. Their foreheads bear the distinct marks of prostration. They have the ferociousness of a lion by the day and are intense worshippers by the night. Their bodies will be stronger than steel. The strength of each one of them will be equal to forty men. They will only kill the hypocrites and the infidels.' 
Behaarul Anwaar, vol. 52, pg. 386, hadith n. 202)

Do non muslim have distinct marks of prostation in their foreheads? Or rather is this proof that the 313 are shia (be they reverts or not, they still became shia before the reappearance and became true shia believers, not that they were non muslim and then became one of the 313 like that in a snap of a finger, that is simply not logical, not possible).

Hope you understand what i meant now.

 

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7 hours ago, AliMohammed said:

You seem confused, this will be my last reply to you, believe in what you believe i will not waste your or my time after this.

1. The whole concept of the 313 is that they are real followers of ahlulbayt, they are the real shia of ahlulbayt, they spend their whole lifetimes in the path of Islam, learning and teaching.

2. I am not claiming that a revert can not become in his life time (before the reappearance) a shia and be of these attributes and among the 313, of course they can and i am sure there will be lots of reverts.

3. My only problem is here, how can a person be regarded as one of these great personalities, when they haven't embraced the true religion of Islam and become real pious personalities?

I will link some videos that speak your language, inshallah you will come to know what i mean when claim that a non muslim can not immediately be regarded as one of the 313, (lest they revert in their lifetime and become believers, before the advent of the reappearance)

 

Biharul Anwar, vol 52, pg 307-308  Imam Sadiq ع:

Their hearts are stronger than iron. 
They will be having complete faith in Allah. There is no place for doubts in their hearts. 
They shall be tougher than stones. They will uproot the mountain only by turning towards it. 
They will conquer every city they enter with their standard. 
They are like swift eagles, mounted on fast horses. 
They will touch the saddle of Imam’s ع mount to seek blessings. 
They will be encircling Imam ع to safeguard him from all calamities and misfortune. 
They will fulfill every desire of Imam ع with their heart and soul. 
They will not sleep in the nights. 
They will buzz like honeybees in their prayers. 
They will pass the night in worship and in the morning they will be seen mounted on horses, ready for helping Imam ع. 
They will be devout worshippers by the night and like the lions in the day. 
They will be more submissive and obedient to Imam ع than a maidservant. 
They are like burning lamps and their hearts are like glowing beacons. 
They are fearful of Allah and testify to His Unity. 
They are hopeful of martyrdom in the Way of Allah. 
Their slogan will be “O Avenger of Husain!” (يالثارات الحسين)
When they march, their awe will precede them by a distance of one month’s journey. 
These are the ones who seek Allah’s Pleasure. 
Allah will help Imam ع through them.

All of the above can happen during the time of the Imam's rule. Nothing says they will do this before the appearance.

7 hours ago, AliMohammed said:

'I am seeing Qaem (a.t.f.s.) and his companions in Kufa. Their foreheads bear the distinct marks of prostration. They have the ferociousness of a lion by the day and are intense worshippers by the night. Their bodies will be stronger than steel. The strength of each one of them will be equal to forty men. They will only kill the hypocrites and the infidels.' 

Behaarul Anwaar, vol. 52, pg. 386, hadith n. 202)

Do non muslim have distinct marks of prostation in their foreheads? Or rather is this proof that the 313 are shia (be they reverts or not, they still became shia before the reappearance and became true shia believers, not that they were non muslim and then became one of the 313 like that in a snap of a finger, that is simply not logical, not possible).

Hope you understand what i meant now

Again - does the above hadith say this is the first day of the Qaem's rule. Could it not be his 10 year of rule?

I understood what you were saying from your very first post. You simply have preconceived notions of things and are unwilling to broaden your thinking.

The Jews rejected Prophets including Isa (as) and Prophet Muhammad (saw) because they thought prophets will be who they determined to be prophets. Imam Ali's supporters left him in Siffin because they wanted to dictate to the Imam on how to act. Same happened to Imam Hasan's supporters.

Zohair bin Qain was returning from Mecca to Kufa at the same time as Imam Hussain (as). He was so against Imam Hussain that he would travel at alternate times to the Imam so that he wasn't see with him. Yet one conversation with the Imam changed everything for him.

Similarly, Wahab was a Christian until he met the Imam and his life changed as well.

Hur was the biggest criminal in Karbala until the morning of Ashura and his life changed as well.

Now these are the most revered figures in shia islam.

So why can't this happen with Imam Mahdi's (as) 313. You just have to keep your mind open that the Imam will come and do things that we may not understand but our job will be to follow, not question. 

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On 7/30/2017 at 8:32 PM, shiaman14 said:

Similarly, any revert has just as much of a chance in being 313 as any other shia by birth. The issue remaining would be at what point a revert comes back to Islam. Why is it not possible that a pious Jew or Christian meets Imam Mahdi (as) and realizes he is the Hujjat of Allah, joins the Imam and reverts. Then the Imam makes him one of the 313?

Salman Farsi was a revert and he joined the Prophet SA and Imam Ali AS. He is famously remembered as belonging to Ahlul Bayt AS:

Quote

"Salman is neither Muhajir nor Ansar. He is one of us. He is one of the People of the House." Prophet Muhammad SA

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

All of the above can happen during the time of the Imam's rule. Nothing says they will do this before the appearance.

Again - does the above hadith say this is the first day of the Qaem's rule. Could it not be his 10 year of rule?

I understood what you were saying from your very first post. You simply have preconceived notions of things and are unwilling to broaden your thinking.

The Jews rejected Prophets including Isa (as) and Prophet Muhammad (saw) because they thought prophets will be who they determined to be prophets. Imam Ali's supporters left him in Siffin because they wanted to dictate to the Imam on how to act. Same happened to Imam Hasan's supporters.

Zohair bin Qain was returning from Mecca to Kufa at the same time as Imam Hussain (as). He was so against Imam Hussain that he would travel at alternate times to the Imam so that he wasn't see with him. Yet one conversation with the Imam changed everything for him.

Similarly, Wahab was a Christian until he met the Imam and his life changed as well.

Hur was the biggest criminal in Karbala until the morning of Ashura and his life changed as well.

Now these are the most revered figures in shia islam.

So why can't this happen with Imam Mahdi's (as) 313. You just have to keep your mind open that the Imam will come and do things that we may not understand but our job will be to follow, not question. 

 

1 hour ago, Hameedeh said:

Salman Farsi was a revert and he joined the Prophet SA and Imam Ali AS. He is famously remembered as belonging to Ahlul Bayt AS:

Why can't you people understand that i am not claiming that a revert can not attain a righteous maqam, rather i am only stating the obvious, the 313 are the 313 for a reason, they have the attributes needed, and these attributes can not be attained lest you first and foremost have the Iman and a non muslim can not even have this simple Iman then how can they have the other attributes? 

Why can't you understand this simple logic is beyond me...

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

All of the above can happen during the time of the Imam's rule. Nothing says they will do this before the appearance.

Again - does the above hadith say this is the first day of the Qaem's rule. Could it not be his 10 year of rule?

I understood what you were saying from your very first post. You simply have preconceived notions of things and are unwilling to broaden your thinking.

The Jews rejected Prophets including Isa (as) and Prophet Muhammad (saw) because they thought prophets will be who they determined to be prophets. Imam Ali's supporters left him in Siffin because they wanted to dictate to the Imam on how to act. Same happened to Imam Hasan's supporters.

Zohair bin Qain was returning from Mecca to Kufa at the same time as Imam Hussain (as). He was so against Imam Hussain that he would travel at alternate times to the Imam so that he wasn't see with him. Yet one conversation with the Imam changed everything for him.

Similarly, Wahab was a Christian until he met the Imam and his life changed as well.

Hur was the biggest criminal in Karbala until the morning of Ashura and his life changed as well.

Now these are the most revered figures in shia islam.

So why can't this happen with Imam Mahdi's (as) 313. You just have to keep your mind open that the Imam will come and do things that we may not understand but our job will be to follow, not question. 

I understand your logic now, you are assuming that things that are not prophesized in hadith may happen, the hadith state that the 313 will all be ready and they will be key to the reappearance, you however are saying that there may happen sometimes else, which is extremely stupid of you.

How can you say perhaps something will happen and you have no hadith backing your statement up, we can not assume things by ourselves, my statement is backed by ahadith. Your's is not.

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45 minutes ago, AliMohammed said:

these attributes can not be attained lest you first and foremost have the Iman and a non muslim can not even have this simple Iman then how can they have the other attributes? 

Not every revert in the world (past, present and future) had/has/will have led a sinful and promiscuous life. Reverts have been pious people who have faith and iman, so in the future many reverts will be righteous people, too. 

Quote

Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. [Holy Qur'an 2:62]

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18 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Not every revert in the world (past, present and future) had/has/will have led a sinful and promiscuous life. Reverts have been pious people who have faith and iman, so in the future many reverts will be righteous people, too. 

Firstly this ayah that you quoted is referring to the true christians, jews and sabians before the Final Messenger [saas] truly they were righteous, but as for their existence after the revelation of the true religion of Allah, all of them reverted and followed Mohammad since in their books Mohammad [saas] is prophesized, hence they can not exist in the present time since if they truly were followers of the true christianity for example they've should've known about Mohammad [saas] and the true successors of Muhammad [saas] and reverted to the true religion of Allah, a true christian who followed the real revelations of Isa [as] could've not stayed on their previous religions after the revelation of Islam, since that contradicts what they are told in the real Bible and Torah etc.

So you're argument that not every follower of the corrupted abrahamic religions is not a sinful individual, that hukm is up to Allah, you can not use this ayah that you quoted for the modern christians for example, since they deny Mohammad [saas] otherwise they would've already reverted.

Example: christian man in siffin, was waiting for the Prophet or his succeccor, found the succeccor, reverted. 

Now i would be stupid of you to argue that maybe there are christians now at this moment whom never even heard of Mohammad [saas], and that is simply impossible, that would mean that they are still waiting for him... 

Anyway, Allahu a'lam.

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29 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Not every revert in the world (past, present and future) had/has/will have led a sinful and promiscuous life. Reverts have been pious people who have faith and iman, so in the future many reverts will be righteous people, too. 

Inna lillah wa inna ilayh raaji'uun, do you people simply lack the brain power to process simple text???

When in my text did i ever claim that a revert can not attain a righteous maqam? If they reverted before the dhuur and became righteous, 100% they can be amongst the 313 but for someone to argue that after the dhuur (when the 313 are already assembled) can an individual revert and become one of the 313 (that have already assembled!!) So what mashallah now there are 314?? 

SubhaanAllah, how some people can not even comprehend basic logic.

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10 hours ago, AliMohammed said:

 

Why can't you people understand that i am not claiming that a revert can not attain a righteous maqam, rather i am only stating the obvious, the 313 are the 313 for a reason, they have the attributes needed, and these attributes can not be attained lest you first and foremost have the Iman and a non muslim can not even have this simple Iman then how can they have the other attributes? 

Why can't you understand this simple logic is beyond me...

I have tried to play nice but it looks like you prefer stick instead of  carrot.

It seems like all logic is beyond you. Here is a simple question for you to answer that you need to answer with LESS or MORE.

Is the status of Wahab Al-Kalbi less than the status of the other non Bani-Hashim martyrs of Karbala?

10 hours ago, AliMohammed said:

I understand your logic now, you are assuming that things that are not prophesized in hadith may happen, the hadith state that the 313 will all be ready and they will be key to the reappearance, you however are saying that there may happen sometimes else, which is extremely stupid of you.

How can you say perhaps something will happen and you have no hadith backing your statement up, we can not assume things by ourselves, my statement is backed by ahadith. Your's is not.

This is where you are wrong. The hadith state that the Imam (as) will have 313 - it does not clearly state that they will assemble and all of a sudden the Imam will manifest himself. A lot has to happen for him (as) to re-appear.

Next time you call me or @Hameedeh or anyone else stupid - I will promptly put you in your place. I have asked you to be respectful at least 3 times. TONE DOWN YOUR ARROGANT AND IGNORANT RHETORIC.

9 hours ago, AliMohammed said:

Inna lillah wa inna ilayh raaji'uun, do you people simply lack the brain power to process simple text???

When in my text did i ever claim that a revert can not attain a righteous maqam? If they reverted before the dhuur and became righteous, 100% they can be amongst the 313 but for someone to argue that after the dhuur (when the 313 are already assembled) can an individual revert and become one of the 313 (that have already assembled!!) So what mashallah now there are 314?? 

SubhaanAllah, how some people can not even comprehend basic logic.

You are narrow-minded imbecile who thinks that the 313 will assemble and combine their rings and all of a sudden the Imam will re-appear.

vlcsnap-00104.jpg

 

I guarantee that you are the type of person who is so dimwitted that you will reject the Imam because He will fail to meet your criteria of an Imam or his 313 will not have your approval.

You should change your screen-name to Abu Musa Al-Ashari - it will be more apt.

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On 8/1/2017 at 2:02 PM, shiaman14 said:

I have tried to play nice but it looks like you prefer stick instead of  carrot.

It seems like all logic is beyond you. Here is a simple question for you to answer that you need to answer with LESS or MORE.

Is the status of Wahab Al-Kalbi less than the status of the other non Bani-Hashim martyrs of Karbala?

This is where you are wrong. The hadith state that the Imam (as) will have 313 - it does not clearly state that they will assemble and all of a sudden the Imam will manifest himself. A lot has to happen for him (as) to re-appear.

Next time you call me or @Hameedeh or anyone else stupid - I will promptly put you in your place. I have asked you to be respectful at least 3 times. TONE DOWN YOUR ARROGANT AND IGNORANT RHETORIC.

You are narrow-minded imbecile who thinks that the 313 will assemble and combine their rings and all of a sudden the Imam will re-appear.

[Mod Note: Image removed in the quote to shorten the length of the quote.]

I guarantee that you are the type of person who is so dimwitted that you will reject the Imam because He will fail to meet your criteria of an Imam or his 313 will not have your approval.

You should change your screen-name to Abu Musa Al-Ashari - it will be more apt.

Go ahead and put me in "my place" i am longing to see your "knowledge" the basic hadith of the reappearance of the Mahdi [ajf] you don't believe in.

You people are something else wallahi.

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12 minutes ago, AliMohammed said:

You people are something else wallahi.

Why are you calling your Shia brothers and sisters "you people"? That sounds very confrontational. 

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On 8/1/2017 at 2:24 PM, Hameedeh said:

Why are you calling your Shia brothers and sisters "you people"? That sounds very confrontational. 

You people seem to be threatened by a mere choosing of words. Anyways i don't see the point in continuing on with this discussion, i don't want to reply to any more replies.

Fi Aman Allah.

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3 hours ago, AliMohammed said:

You people are something else wallahi.

Yes, we are people who knowledge and intellect. You are probably not used to people who can think for themselves. This attitude of yours is usually prevalent in backward madrassahs which you seem to be a product off.

3 hours ago, AliMohammed said:

Go ahead and put me in "my place" i am longing to see your "knowledge" the basic hadith of the reappearance of the Mahdi [ajf] you don't believe in.

The fact that you couldnt answer a simple question "Is the status of Wahab Al-Kalbi less than the status of the other non Bani-Hashim martyrs of Karbala?" is enough proof of your ignorance and low IQ.

The first 2 minutes of Sayed Ahmad Al-Qazwini speech is enough to prove you wrong. He says, "if the Imam (as) finds 313, He will rise." He didnt say that the Imam will re-appear out of Occultation.

Your pea-sized brain can't seem to comprehend that if Imam Al-Sadiq (as) says that he can see the Qaim and his 313, it could mean to be anytime after his re-appearance including 1, 5, 10, 15, 20 years after it. You ASSume it to mean the first day because people like you assume to tell Imam what to do much like the people in Siffin to rejected Imam Ali.

2 hours ago, AliMohammed said:

You people seem to be threatened by a mere choosing of words. Anyways i don't see the point in continuing on with this discussion, i would want to reply to any more replies.

Fi Aman Allah.

Abu Musa Al-Ashari - you are one who feels threatened and starts calling people names instead of having a docile discussion about the possibilities of the 313. Your anger is simple proof of your ignorance.

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I think that many people don't know which brands of clothing, chocolate, cellphones, shoes, etc., come from slavery or really, really low conditions for their workers, I asume that if they knew they wouldn't buy those products. I try as much as I can and with the tools I have of researching every brand I consume to know if is jewish, and if it is, I don't buy it.

Recently I knew that certain brand was manufacturing their chocolates through enslavement, since then I don't buy those chocolates, but it doesn't mean I don't consume any chocolate at all, for example my country brand is Jet and I know the chocolate comes from Santander and that the people that work there collecting the cacao are normal workers (or at least that's the information I can get, if it's a lie or if any forces/the illuminati cover the truth, I think it's difficult for us to know).

Personally I don't agree with the thought or opinion that if we don't want to have participation in bad things we should live in the nature, although I don't agree, I respect that point of view, but I think that's not necessary and that we can buy things from decent companies. If you suspect as some people say that china mistreat their workers, you can buy things from your own country, for example. 

Many people here is really commited to buy only colombian products to help the economy and to increase jobs for the people, they think that if national companies don't earn, there will be a cut in the jobs and there will be more unemployment; but is due to that, not because they care about the workers conditions that  manufactured the product, they could be interested just in the product quality and that's all.

For that reason they don't buy in starbucks, mc donalds, chinese or any multinational companies, but only colombian and try to lead all people into doing that, don't ask me why but I prefer to buy international rather than colombian. Then if Nikes comes from poor conditions in china, there are plenty other brands from you can choose.

I know there are things we can't completely avoid in this world but I also think that human beings can't be completely good, there is just one who is completely good, even though I try as much as I can to run away from the Big Babylon.

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1 hour ago, beladalrafidan said:

This thread is a very sad thread. Why is necessary to abuse and attack one another? It is possible to disagree but respectfully. May Allah guide us all 

I apologize brother. I cautioned OP several times to maintain proper decorum but he refused. Some people like carrots, others prefer stick.

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3 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

I apologize brother. I cautioned OP several times to maintain proper decorum but he refused. Some people like carrots, others prefer stick.

No brother, no need for the apology. It is sad that we cannot maintain mutual respect during moments of disagreement. This is what is weakening our people (one of the ways). What is OP? I noticed it wasn't just from one individual sadly. We must remember Allah swt created humans as the superior creation with intellect and knowledge no man has the right to refute that. And sadly I didn't understand your last sentence, please explain further. 

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2 minutes ago, beladalrafidan said:

No brother, no need for the apology. It is sad that we cannot maintain mutual respect during moments of disagreement. This is what is weakening our people (one of the ways). What is OP? I noticed it wasn't just from one individual sadly. We must remember Allah swt created humans as the superior creation with intellect and knowledge no man has the right to refute that. And sadly I didn't understand your last sentence, please explain further. 

Sorry, not OP but @AliMohammed. He called me stupid several times and asked him to play nice, then he called someone else stupid. It was the final straw.

All we were doing is sharing ideas and my simple point was that we should not be dismissive of events that take place after the Re-appearance of the Imam if they are contrary to what we've been told.

Carrot and Stick - simply means some people don't listen when you ask nicely so you have to be rude to them to get them to behave.

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1 minute ago, shiaman14 said:

Sorry, not OP but @AliMohammed. He called me stupid several times and asked him to play nice, then he called someone else stupid. It was the final straw.

All we were doing is sharing ideas and my simple point was that we should not be dismissive of events that take place after the Re-appearance of the Imam if they are contrary to what we've been told.

Carrot and Stick - simply means some people don't listen when you ask nicely so you have to be rude to them to get them to behave.

May Allah forgive us all brother. I hope you don't carry anything against him.

thank you, I haven't heard of that expression 

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2 minutes ago, beladalrafidan said:

May Allah forgive us all brother. I hope you don't carry anything against him.

thank you, I haven't heard of that expression 

Nothing against him whatsoever. I think he is genuinely frustrated that someone thinks differently from him. 

Funny story about thinking differently - someone on SC was saying that we should all get military training to serve the Imam (as) and I said, I would be happy to be a cook in the Imam's army. Literally serving the Imam. That person got mad at me too.

We have this idea that all the Imam will need are soldiers. But the Imam will need engineers, doctors, cooks, etc. Anway, I digress.

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1 minute ago, shiaman14 said:

Nothing against him whatsoever. I think he is genuinely frustrated that someone thinks differently from him. 

Funny story about thinking differently - someone on SC was saying that we should all get military training to serve the Imam (as) and I said, I would be happy to be a cook in the Imam's army. Literally serving the Imam. That person got mad at me too.

We have this idea that all the Imam will need are soldiers. But the Imam will need engineers, doctors, cooks, etc. Anway, I digress.

Loool that is funny. I do agree with you. Khadim Al-Zahra inshallah. 

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