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In the Name of God بسم الله
Zavon

How do you refute Trinity?

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Look at the Biblical Lords Prayer

Math 6th Chap

9. 'Our Father which art in heaven. Hallowed be Thy name.' - Has God only the fatherly love without the motherly attachment? Is God only in Heaven and not on Earth?

10. 'Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as is in heaven.' - Is earth now out of God's Kingdom, i.e. out of His hold or authority? If it is not God's authority that prevails on the earth, who is then the present owner and ruler of the earth? If it not God's will that is always fulfilled on the earth and elsewhere in the universe, whose will is that is being done in the earth now?

11. 'Give us this day our daily bread' - Is bread the only thing that man needs for his life in this world? What about clothes and the other amenities, essential for man's stay on earth? Is there anyone else besides God to provide man with what he needs?

ill do the last 2 verses down below 

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12. 'And forgive us ours debts as we forgive our debtors' - can the one or two petty debts or no rear worth or significance at all, which might be due to us from others, be ever compared to the innumerable and invaluable bounties we continuously receive from Allah? Can the worthless and insignificant debts of ours imaginably be worthy to ransom against our indebtedness to the infinite benevolence of the All-Merciful Almighty Lord?

13. 'Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. From Thine is the kingdom, and the power and the  glory for ever. Amen.' - it is Satan who leads man to temptation and it god who can and who does protect man against it. Does god also lead his creatures to sin? Then who is Satan and what is his quality and work ? The very second article of this prayer says 'thy kingdom come ' and now in this article it is asserted saying 'thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory for ever', is this not a self-contradicting statement?

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On ٢‏/٨‏/٢٠١٧ at 10:20 PM, andres said:

Do you believe the Quran is 100% from God?

I'll answer that for you. See my posts at the end of the thread which refute your Lord's Prayer and I will answer that for you brother :) my hands are so tired I wrote a lot 

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Carrying on... The fact is that any prayer composer by man for his use will naturally be imperfect, and even defective happening in it the aspects of the acknowledged limitation of the human knowledge about God and the conceptive limitation to fully comprehend the incomprehensible infinite divine attributes. Man, when he asks for himself without any guidance from God to do it, will naturally ask for his own immediate demand in this material life in his earthly abode, and thus has been proved to be true in the wording of the above prayer. Besides the prayers formulated by man in the days when he was not yet to be educated with the fundamental knowledge in its fullness, about his individual self and the Universal one, about the vanity of life and the reality of the hereafter, can never be expected to be perfect, neither in wording nor in the concept.

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1 hour ago, beladalrafidan said:

Look at the Biblical Lords Prayer

Math 6th Chap

9. 'Our Father which art in heaven. Hallowed be Thy name.' - Has God only the fatherly love without the motherly attachment? Is God only in Heaven and not on Earth?

10. 'Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as is in heaven.' - Is earth now out of God's Kingdom, i.e. out of His hold or authority? If it is not God's authority that prevails on the earth, who is then the present owner and ruler of the earth? If it not God's will that is always fulfilled on the earth and elsewhere in the universe, whose will is that is being done in the earth now?

11. 'Give us this day our daily bread' - Is bread the only thing that man needs for his life in this world? What about clothes and the other amenities, essential for man's stay on earth? Is there anyone else besides God to provide man with what he needs?

ill do the last 2 verses down below 

You're kidding, right?

Jesus called God His Father on many occasions, always followed by, "Who is in Heaven"  You expected Jesus to call God His mother? Yes, God is in Heaven. The idea that God is an omnipresent being that lives on earth and controls every little thing that happens is what athiests use as an argument against God. God created many angels, not because He wanted a cheering section to watch Him do everything. Gabriel is your first best example.

How does a wish for earth to be like Heaven have anything to do with a God who's kingdom encompasses the universe(s)? Do you see God's will being carried out on earth? Did God instruct man how to build a nuclear bomb? Did God build all the bars and taverns that people destroy their lives in? Does God rule the internet?  

Bread is a good start, it sustains the body so men can do things for themselves. Did you expect a full list? Would it have included a tooth brush? If Jesus were to name every little thing you'd like on the list, He'd still be on the mount teaching us how to pray.

Quote

 

12. 'And forgive us ours debts as we forgive our debtors' - can the one or two petty debts or no rear worth or significance at all, which might be due to us from others, be ever compared to the innumerable and invaluable bounties we continuously receive from Allah? Can the worthless and insignificant debts of ours imaginably be worthy to ransom against our indebtedness to the infinite benevolence of the All-Merciful Almighty Lord?

13. 'Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. From Thine is the kingdom, and the power and the  glory for ever. Amen.' - it is Satan who leads man to temptation and it god who can and who does protect man against it. Does god also lead his creatures to sin? Then who is Satan and what is his quality and work ? The very second article of this prayer says 'thy kingdom come ' and now in this article it is asserted saying 'thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory for ever', is this not a self-contradicting statement?

 

Anyone who actually studied this for more than 8 seconds would know that debt is a modern translation of trespass. This is not about monetary debts, but trespassing. It doesn't mean walking on your neighbours lawn, if that's your next thought. To trespass means to wrong someone. Asking for forgiveness for things you have done wrong to other people, and forgiving people who have done wrong to you. I know it's not a concept you are used to because Islam seems to prefer vengeance.

How does that become self contradicting? Both the Bible and the Qu'ran speak of God confusing the ungodly. This might be a bit deep for you because the Qu'ran doesn't go into much detail on evil. It's rather obvious that Heaven and earth are not the same. Even the Qu'ran speaks of earth as a testing ground for mankind, It happens to be within the kingdom of God. 

Part of satan's quality and work is to twist and refute scripture. 

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43 minutes ago, beladalrafidan said:

Carrying on... The fact is that any prayer composer by man for his use will naturally be imperfect, and even defective happening in it the aspects of the acknowledged limitation of the human knowledge about God and the conceptive limitation to fully comprehend the incomprehensible infinite divine attributes. Man, when he asks for himself without any guidance from God to do it, will naturally ask for his own immediate demand in this material life in his earthly abode, and thus has been proved to be true in the wording of the above prayer. Besides the prayers formulated by man in the days when he was not yet to be educated with the fundamental knowledge in its fullness, about his individual self and the Universal one, about the vanity of life and the reality of the hereafter, can never be expected to be perfect, neither in wording nor in the concept.

So you say, but it's not evidenced in the Lords prayer.

Your accusation basically says Jesus taught people to pray selfishly without guidance. Maybe you should put more thought into this. Your agenda cannot be proven here, only seen as a prejudice looking for a place to land. 

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9 hours ago, baqar said:

Palestine is not as cold as Sweden. So heating the home in that part of the world was not a priority.

In any case, I do not know what your beliefs are but every Jew, Christian and Muslim believes that Moses was a man of God. That could be more than 4 billion people. 

So if Moses was a man of God, then his laws must have come from God.

Very many Jews and Christians today have realised that Moses is a mythical person. When will Muslims start to find out?

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29 minutes ago, andres said:

Very many Jews and Christians today have realised that Moses is a mythical person. When will Muslims start to find out?

Very many?

Have the Vatican and Protestant churches accepted the verdict of the very many Christians that you mention.

If they haven't, then the views of your very many Christians holds no significance for me.

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12 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

12. 'And forgive us ours debts as we forgive our debtors' - can the one or two petty debts or no rear worth or significance at all, which might be due to us from others, be ever compared to the innumerable and invaluable bounties we continuously receive from Allah? Can the worthless and insignificant debts of ours imaginably be worthy to ransom against our indebtedness to the infinite benevolence of the All-Merciful Almighty Lord?

13. 'Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. From Thine is the kingdom, and the power and the  glory for ever. Amen.' - it is Satan who leads man to temptation and it god who can and who does protect man against it. Does god also lead his creatures to sin? Then who is Satan and what is his quality and work ? The very second article of this prayer says 'thy kingdom come ' and now in this article it is asserted saying 'thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory for ever', is this not a self-contradicting statement?

The beauty of a language lies in is the role of metaphor, without which, it is so easy to misunderstand the text.

Let us not forget that without the grace of metaphor, the Quran also becomes vulnerable.

So criticisms such as the ones you raise can easily ricochet back you.

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10 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

@Son of Placid I had no intent for such a reaction from a fellow brother , Not my intent at all. I have my view and you have your view, all respect due.

All respect due, but when I realize my view might be wrong I usually study some, and if I find my view is wrong, I change it. I'm more interested in the actual truth than my truth.

If you thought debt meant monetary then your view is obviously wrong. If you thought Jesus would teach people to pray irresponsibly your view must be wrong. It's quite simple.

Can you honestly use these views on the next Christian you meet?

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9 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

All respect due, but when I realize my view might be wrong I usually study some, and if I find my view is wrong, I change it. I'm more interested in the actual truth than my truth.

If you thought debt meant monetary then your view is obviously wrong. If you thought Jesus would teach people to pray irresponsibly your view must be wrong. It's quite simple.

Can you honestly use these views on the next Christian you meet?

I will do so brother :) I will take this on board

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The Father is greater than I (John 14:28)

I myself can do nothing. (John 5:30)

I am son of man(8 times mentioned btw)

Jesus SON OF MARY.

All these are quotes from the bible. 

And then a priest comes and start shouting "Jesus son of God".

ehm

 

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Is there anything that one of the 3 Gods in the concept of trinity can do that the other one cannot?

For example can the father do something that the son cannot, or something that the spirit can but the father cannot?

In that case it is like saying that God is limited in his actions and needs to be divided into 3 entities in order to achieve whatever it is, does that make sense when you at the same time say that God created time and space and everything and everyone in it?

 

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