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In the Name of God بسم الله

precum, mazi, please help

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As-salaam mulaikum brothers. I am facing an issue. So I have to go to the washroom a lot because of urine urgency symptoms. Also I have noticed if I don't do istibra, then after going to the washroom, if I bend or sit, a discharge naturally comes out. So now to the question:

When I think about marriage, now in regards to marriage a man can get aroused just by thinking that he will get married and what will follow and a liquid sometimes gets discharged. Is this liquid pure. or When a person intends to get married just for pleasure and a liquid is discharged, is that liquid pure? Please explain, I need help in regards to this issue in my life. It seems whenever a lustful thought enters my mind and if it deepens, then sometimes something comes out. Is that liquid pure?

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A fluid will be treated as semen if it is thrown out with lust and if the body is slackened.

So since pleasure is accompanied by lust so any fluid which comes out in the state I have described above, wouldn't that be semen?

 

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19 minutes ago, race said:

As-salaam mulaikum brothers. I am facing an issue. So I have to go to the washroom a lot because of urine urgency symptoms. Also I have noticed if I don't do istibra, then after going to the washroom, if I bend or sit, a discharge naturally comes out. So now to the question:

When I think about marriage, now in regards to marriage a man can get aroused just by thinking that he will get married and what will follow and a liquid sometimes gets discharged. Is this liquid pure. or When a person intends to get married just for pleasure and a liquid is discharged, is that liquid pure? Please explain, I need help in regards to this issue in my life. It seems whenever a lustful thought enters my mind and if it deepens, then sometimes something comes out. Is that liquid pure?

In the situation of lustful thoughts the liquid based on what your describing is precum which is pure. Semen is najis and requires ghusl Janabah to purify yourself from the major Hadath. 

The liquid is only semen if you know for sure it is semen ,if you doubt then According to ayatollah khamenei if 3 signs have been met such as 1.fatigue after discharge 2. The semen gushed out 3. And the discharge was accompanied by lust or sexual excitement, then it will be considered semen.

Sayed sistani I believe, adds if you have a disease where you may discharge semen without orgasm, then if the discharge is accompanied by lust it will be considered semen, if you doubt it is semen. 

 

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If you're sure the liquid is semen, you must do ghusl. If you're unsure whether the liquid is semen or urine, you must do ghusl and wudu.

Q: After urinating, doing istibrā’, and performing wuḍū’, a fluid suspected of being either urine or semen came out. What is its rule? 
A: In the given question, it is obligatory to perform both wuḍū’ and ghusl in order to obtain certainty of purity from the invalidators of both of them. 

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Al-Hadi, thank you for your response. I don't think I have a disease as doctors did a test and did not find a disease. Its just something obstructing which hold some urine back after urinating.

So discharge accompanied by lust can be considered pure?

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45 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

In the situation of lustful thoughts the liquid based on what your describing is precum which is pure. Semen is najis and requires ghusl Janabah to purify yourself from the major Hadath. 

The liquid is only semen if you know for sure it is semen ,if you doubt then According to ayatollah khamenei if 3 signs have been met such as 1.fatigue after discharge 2. The semen gushed out 3. And the discharge was accompanied by lust or sexual excitement, then it will be considered semen.

Sayed sistani I believe, adds if you have a disease where you may discharge semen without orgasm, then if the discharge is accompanied by lust it will be considered semen, if you doubt it is semen. 

 

Thanks.

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48 minutes ago, race said:

Al-Hadi, thank you for your response. I don't think I have a disease as doctors did a test and did not find a disease. Its just something obstructing which hold some urine back after urinating.

So discharge accompanied by lust can be considered pure?

Yes, if you don't have that disease and the other signs like fatigue and gushing forth of fluid are not present.

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1 hour ago, Hassan- said:

If you're sure the liquid is semen, you must do ghusl. If you're unsure whether the liquid is semen or urine, you must do ghusl and wudu.

Q: After urinating, doing istibrā’, and performing wuḍū’, a fluid suspected of being either urine or semen came out. What is its rule? 
A: In the given question, it is obligatory to perform both wuḍū’ and ghusl in order to obtain certainty of purity from the invalidators of both of them. 

No, that question is talking about the situation when you know and are sure that the liquid is either urine or semen. So you do both. But the situation the brother is discussing is different. If you think it's precum possibly then the situation is different. Only purifying the private parts is necessary to pray.

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47 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

No, that question is talking about the situation when you know and are sure that the liquid is either urine or semen. So you do both. But the situation the brother is discussing is different. If you think it's precum possibly then the situation is different. Only purifying the private parts is necessary to pray.

He said a liquid is discharged after lustful thoughts. The liquid could either be semen or urine. Since he doesn't know if the liquid discharged is semen or urine, in that case ghusl and wudu is required as per the fatwa I have showed. 

Edited by Hassan-
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29 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

He said a liquid is discharged after lustful thoughts. The liquid could either be semen or urine. Since he doesn't know if the liquid discharged is semen or urine, in that case ghusl and wudu is required as per the fatwa I have showed. 

No, lustful thoughts doesn't mean it's semen, lustful thoughts is only one of the signs, it could also be precum (mazi) which also happens as a result of lust. Since it could be urine or precum and he is not sure it is semen he doesn't have to do ghusl. 

If he did istibra and is not sure if its urine or something Tahir he is still Tahir. The fatwa your talking about is only if your sure if it's either urine or semen but not sure which, so it makes sense to do both ghusl and wudhu.

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2 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

No, lustful thoughts doesn't mean it's semen, lustful thoughts is only one of the signs, it could also be precum (mazi) which also happens as a result of lust. Since it could be urine or precum and he is not sure it is semen he doesn't have to do ghusl. 

If he did istibra and is not sure if its urine or something Tahir he is still Tahir. The fatwa your talking about is only if your sure if it's either urine or semen but not sure which, so it makes sense to do both ghusl and wudhu.

When you say mazi do you mean madhi? Madhi is the liquid that comes out after foreplay with your wife, and yes that is tahir. His liquid is not considered as madhi because he didn't fore play with his wife, and having lustful thoughts of sex other than your wife is impermissible by obligatory caution. 

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Question: Whenever I am thinking about a beautiful woman, there comes out a liquid that is very similar to semen? Is it semen? How can I understand that it is semen or a clean discharge?

Answer: The said liquid is clean. However, when one cannot ascertain whether the fluid emitted from one's body is semen, urine or something else, it will be treated as semen if it is thrown out with lust and if the body is slackened. If all or some of these signs are not present the fluid will not be treated as semen. In the case of illness, the fluid may not come out with sudden swiftness and the body may not slacken; but if the emission takes place with lust, it will be treated as semen. 
If a fluid emitted by a healthy person possesses one of the aforesaid three signs and he does not know whether or not it also possessed other signs, and if before the emission he was with wudhu he will content himself with that wudhu. And if he was not with wudhu, it would be sufficient for him to perform wudhu only, and Ghusl would not be necessary.
 
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1 hour ago, Hassan- said:

When you say mazi do you mean madhi? Madhi is the liquid that comes out after foreplay with your wife, and yes that is tahir. His liquid is not considered as madhi because he didn't fore play with his wife, and having lustful thoughts of sex other than your wife is impermissible by obligatory caution. 

Yes Madhi, madhi is pre cum bro, one of the instances it comes out is in foreplay as you said. Look at the istiftat king just posted to show you. 

Btw: I know it's haram but the liquid that comes out is precum (madhi) which is tahir, semen is najis though.

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1 hour ago, Al Hadi said:

Yes Madhi, madhi is pre cum bro, one of the instances it comes out is in foreplay as you said. Look at the istiftat king just posted to show you. 

Btw: I know it's haram but the liquid that comes out is precum (madhi) which is tahir, semen is najis though.

What does this sentence mean to you "However, when one cannot ascertain whether the fluid emitted from one's body is semen, urine or something else, it will be treated as semen if it is thrown out with lust and if the body is slackened."

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1 hour ago, IbnMariam said:

thrown out with lust

 

1 hour ago, IbnMariam said:

plus it's clear that "if the body is slackened" is referring to the instant urge to fall asleep that typically follows

Thrown out with lust doesn't mean ejaculation, or else Sistani would have used the word 'ejaculation'. Looking at women with lustful thoughts can be considered as 'thrown out with lust'.

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1 hour ago, Hassan- said:

 

Thrown out with lust doesn't mean ejaculation, or else Sistani would have used the word 'ejaculation'. Looking at women with lustful thoughts can be considered as 'thrown out with lust'.

Bro it's ejaculation. Do you know how to read Arabic? I always understood this, way before this conversation. When you read the Arabic it becomes pretty clear. The English can often leave room for misinterpretation.

the liquid being "thrown out" as in it gushed or spurt forth is one of the signs, the second is if it was with lust, i.e sex, masterbation (though haram) are examples. And 3rd is slackened but sometimes you see weak like with imam Khamenei's fatwa, just because it depends on translation. 

Q 176: When is a discharge from a male considered to be semen?

A: When it is accompanied by sexual excitement, weakness of the body and ejaculation, it is subject to the rule of semen.

so as you can see they translated to weakness of the body but if you read the Arabic there is usually no room for confusion. Also as you can see imam Khamenei's translation uses ejaculation to describe "gushing forth" see. so unless you have all these signs you can't say it is semen unless you know it's semen. Get it, brother Hassan.

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5 hours ago, Al Hadi said:

Bro it's ejaculation. Do you know how to read Arabic? I always understood this, way before this conversation. When you read the Arabic it becomes pretty clear. The English can often leave room for misinterpretation.

the liquid being "thrown out" as in it gushed or spurt forth is one of the signs, the second is if it was with lust, i.e sex, masterbation (though haram) are examples. And 3rd is slackened but sometimes you see weak like with imam Khamenei's fatwa, just because it depends on translation. 

Q 176: When is a discharge from a male considered to be semen?

A: When it is accompanied by sexual excitement, weakness of the body and ejaculation, it is subject to the rule of semen.

so as you can see they translated to weakness of the body but if you read the Arabic there is usually no room for confusion. Also as you can see imam Khamenei's translation uses ejaculation to describe "gushing forth" see. so unless you have all these signs you can't say it is semen unless you know it's semen. Get it, brother Hassan.

I thought madhi was only the discharge from foreplay and nothing else, I guess it's not. You're right about reading the fatwas in English, they can be very misleading and inaccurate. I should start reading them in Arabic.

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