Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

I'd become Shia immediately if...

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

How would you explain these two verses: Surah Maryam, Verse 87: لَّا يَمْلِكُونَ الشَّفَاعَةَ إِلَّا مَنِ اتَّخَذَ عِندَ الرَّحْمَٰنِ عَهْدًا They shall not control intercession, save h

This guy obviously opened this thread to tease you guys. God says in chapter 28 verse 56 انك لا تهدي من أحببت ان الله يهدي من يشاء So you cant engift this guy even if you debate him from now

The last time I checked, intercession was not a pillar of Shiism. It is an optional practice of some Sunnis and some Shi`a. The Shi`a who practice intercession do not believe that the intercessor has

  • Veteran Member
14 minutes ago, Jimmy Boy said:

If it weren't for intercession! I hate this concept of intermediaries between man and God and,no matter how hard one tries to make me accept it,I'll forever refuse it! So,this being an article of faith os Shia Islam (correct me if I am wrong),I cannot embrace this religion!

Intercession or tawasal is permitted not only in Shias but also in sunnis. The following links describe its permissibility in the light of Quran and hadith of the prophet saww.

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/tawassul-resorting-intermediary

http://www.ahlus-sunna.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57

Edited by skyweb1987
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
12 minutes ago, Jimmy Boy said:

If it weren't for intercession! I hate this concept of intermediaries between man and God and,no matter how hard one tries to make me accept it,I'll forever refuse it! So,this being an article of faith os Shia Islam (correct me if I am wrong),I cannot embrace this religion!

You accept that Allah(awj) has the right to Appoint His(awj) Khalifa.

Since you have studied it so diligently, and the only ISSUE is the one you mentioned.

Meaning, you must have formulated your opinion on the following, can you share

Tragedy of Thursday

Shaqifa

Fadak

Battle of Jamal

Battle of Siffin

Karbala

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
32 minutes ago, Jimmy Boy said:

If it weren't for intercession! I hate this concept of intermediaries between man and God and,no matter how hard one tries to make me accept it,I'll forever refuse it! So,this being an article of faith os Shia Islam (correct me if I am wrong),I cannot embrace this religion!

Safa'ah (intercession) is in Day of Judgement (Mentioned many times in Qur'an). What you are concern about must be Tawassul. Tawassul actually is asking Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì help by rightfulness or sake of his representatives. Here is an hadith example:

from Saduq's book al-Khisal:

5-8 Abul Hassan Ali ibn al-Fazl ibn al-Ab’bas al-Baghdady narrated that Ali Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Suleiman al-Harith quoted Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Khald al-At’tar, on the authority of Hussein al-Ashqar, on the authority of Amr ibn Abil Meqdam, on the authority of his father, on the authority of Sa’id ibn Jabir, on the authority of Ibn Abbas, “I asked the Prophet (MGB) about the words by which Adam’s prayers were accepted when he repented. The Prophet (MGB) replied, “Adam (MGB) asked God to accept his repentance by the rightfulness of Muhammad, Ali, Fatimah, Al-Hassan and Al-Hussein!”

---

All the rest that people asking Imams for help instead of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is nothing but wrong and have nothing to do with Shi'a Islam.

Edited by Dhulfikar
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
38 minutes ago, Jimmy Boy said:

If it weren't for intercession! I hate this concept of intermediaries between man and God and,no matter how hard one tries to make me accept it,I'll forever refuse it! So,this being an article of faith os Shia Islam (correct me if I am wrong),I cannot embrace this religion!

Just follow the basic article of faith with sincerity inshaAllah you will succeed. 

Just debating on intercession will yield nothing. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)

Intercession is a reality and helps us realise the status of the holy saints. There are countless hadiths about this concept which one one can deny.

If it wasn't for intercession we would of been praying 50 times a day. Prophet Moses (as) helped all of ummah in this sense. You aren't even a true Shia or even a Muslim if you reject the idea of intercession. 

It is strange that you deny intercession but are in some ways seeking it. Don't you get closer to Allah by mourning for Imam Hussein (as) every year during Muharram? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Jimmy Boy said:

If it weren't for intercession! I hate this concept of intermediaries between man and God and,no matter how hard one tries to make me accept it,I'll forever refuse it! So,this being an article of faith os Shia Islam (correct me if I am wrong),I cannot embrace this religion!

You can commit kuffor in some Laws it's okay...Just, don't complain on judgement day....:hahaha:

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are intermediates   whether you accept it or reject it , they are still there you know why because they are part of the system of the world, this is how God designed the world , for example there is a Hadith for the prophet Muhammed PBUh  that  the first thing that was created was his light and from his light everything else was created.  This Hadith proves that between us and God there is at least prophet Muhammed as  an intercession because we can not accept the flow of existence directly from God, an example of this would be like a power generator that supplies houses with power the houses can not take power from it directly because they dont have the capacity so they need an intermediate that regulates the power  so the houses dont burn. Of course this is just an example,  take the angel of death for instance, its Allah Swt that takes the soul but through him.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another example is when you are healed from some sickness by a medicine, who healed you Allah or the medicine? Its Allah but through the medicine , here the medicine worked as an intermediate between.  This is how the world is designed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
2 hours ago, Jimmy Boy said:

If it weren't for intercession! I hate this concept of intermediaries between man and God and,no matter how hard one tries to make me accept it,I'll forever refuse it! So,this being an article of faith os Shia Islam (correct me if I am wrong),I cannot embrace this religion!

Salaam brother.

It is entirely your loss if you dont accept and your gain if you do. Even the Prophet did not have a 100% record of reverting people to Islam so we are under no illusions to revert everyone to the true Islam as taught by the Prophet and explained by the Ahlul-Bayt.

A couple of simple questions:

1) If Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì used intermediaries from Him to us ie Messengers, then what makes you think you can do directly to Allah without intermediaries? Why send the Quran through the Prophet instead of revealing it directly into our hearts?

2) The earliest wives and sahaba of the Prophet used his cloak and drinking cup as tawasul (intermediary) to pray to Allah. Were they wrong?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
1 hour ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

This guy obviously opened this thread to tease you guys.

God says in chapter 28 verse 56 انك لا تهدي من أحببت ان الله يهدي من يشاء

So you cant engift this guy even if you debate him from now till the judgement day. You will only Outrage him more if you Ignore him.

I mean the prophet himself couldn't help these men...

May God hasten the reappearance of our Imam.

You are right but we are not being teased but our responses are for his eye opening to the truth for the religion and success on the day of judgement.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, skyweb1987 said:

You are right but we are not being teased but our responses are for his eye opening to the truth for the religion and success on the day of judgement.

Brother, i think he already knows everything you are telling him. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

Safa'ah (intercession) is in Day of Judgement (Mentioned many times in Qur'an). What you are concern about must be Tawassul. Tawassul actually is asking Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì help by rightfulness or sake of his representatives. Here is an hadith example:

from Saduq's book al-Khisal:

5-8 Abul Hassan Ali ibn al-Fazl ibn al-Ab’bas al-Baghdady narrated that Ali Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Suleiman al-Harith quoted Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Khald al-At’tar, on the authority of Hussein al-Ashqar, on the authority of Amr ibn Abil Meqdam, on the authority of his father, on the authority of Sa’id ibn Jabir, on the authority of Ibn Abbas, “I asked the Prophet (MGB) about the words by which Adam’s prayers were accepted when he repented. The Prophet (MGB) replied, “Adam (MGB) asked God to accept his repentance by the rightfulness of Muhammad, Ali, Fatimah, Al-Hassan and Al-Hussein!”

---

All the rest that people asking Imams for help instead of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is nothing but wrong and have nothing to do with Shi'a Islam.

Yours was the only reasonable answer! Thank you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 hours ago, Jimmy Boy said:

Or it might be that I do not agree with them!

Mr.just be with the sect you are .Follow quran and Mohhamad saw. You will get salvation. You have different understanding of intercession based on your knowledge. There is nothing wrong in it. Even amongst Shia scholars they differ in understanding and manner actualization of Intercession .

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
26 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr.just be with the sect you are .Follow quran and Mohhamad saw. You will get salvation. 

Whom you may follow to obey  the sayings and actions of prophet Muhammad saww?

He  (saww) has  instructed us to follow Quran and Ahl albayat ie his progeny.

Edited by skyweb1987
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
35 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

Whom you may follow to obey  the sayings and actions of prophet Muhammad saww?

He  (saww) has  instructed us to follow Quran and Ahl albayat ie his progeny.

Is not Mohhamad saw amongst Ahlebayat as. 

Do you think one who follow Quran and Mohhamad saw won't get salvation. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
14 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Is not Mohhamad saw amongst Ahlebayat as. 

Do you think one who follow Quran and Mohhamad saw won't get salvation. 

So the words of the prophet as given in  hadith thaqlayn for following Quran and Ahl albayat  are not acceptable to you?

Edited by skyweb1987
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

So the words of the prophet as given in  hadith thaqlayn for following Quran and Ahl albayat are not acceptable to you?

Did I say Ahlebayat are not acceptable to me. 

The basic question was intercession. So I too have differentunderstanding on intercession. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
Just now, islam25 said:

That is why I told him to follow Mohhamad saw. To get salvation. 

This is again a contradiction in  your statements  

Following the prophet through his Ahl labayat is defined in hadith thaqlayn

Intercession is different concept  as mentioned in the posts in this thread.

No mixing please.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

This is again a contradiction in  your statements  

Following the prophet through his Ahl labayat is defined in hadith thaqlayn

Intercession is different concept  as mentioned in the posts in this thread.

No mixing please.

OK. 

Should I follow Ahle bayat as or mujtahids. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Just now, skyweb1987 said:

i do not know whom you follow.

I follow the sayings of the prophet saww and sayings of the Ahkl albaayt defined in authentic hadith that comes from shia sources.. 

What is futwa about cursing by Ayatollah khamnaie. 

I follow him. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...