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In the Name of God بسم الله

God Does Not Change His Method of Dealing

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Each religion has contracted its particular "spiritual disease" which prevents them from recognizing the Next Messenger; and this is mainly the fault of the religious leaders themselves.

After reading Sura of Hud, where a succession of Prophets is described, and the punishments that came upon them for their apostasy, and knowing that God does not change His method, because of this verse:

“(Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah already in the past: no change wilt thou find in the practice (approved) of Allah. (Qur’an 48:23 YusufAli)

--my question is: Why have men concluded that God has changed His method and decided to stop sending divine Messengers?

I decided that the reason they do this is because they came to believe that Muhammad is the last Prophet ever to be sent to earth by Allah,

because of the Verse about the Seal of the Prophets; but I see no reason to believe their conclusion, since “no change wilt thou find in the practice of Allah”.

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Salam

"Change in God's plan" in that context (Sura al-Fath) does not refer to sending further messengers, but to the triumph of divine messengers and their followers. (You can read the pervious verses of 48:23)

However, there are other contexts with the occurrence of "there is no change in God's plan" and none refer to sending further messengers, and some refer to punishment after people reject messengers, meaning God won't punish anyone before truth becomes evident and manifest to them, that's God practice which never changes.

9 hours ago, Daud AbuOmid said:

Why have men concluded that God has changed His method and decided to stop sending divine Messengers?

There is difference between all the Prophets who all promise the next one, and a single Prophet who says I am the last one.

Edited by mesbah
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9 hours ago, Daud AbuOmid said:

Why have men concluded that God has changed His method and decided to stop sending divine Messengers?

I decided that the reason they do this is because they came to believe that Muhammad is the last Prophet ever to be sent to earth by Allah,

because of the Verse about the Seal of the Prophets;

Your question is directed towards the belief of Muslims that Muhammad (peace & blessings of Allah be upon him & his pure progeny) is the last Prophet of Allah.

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Apostle of Allah and the Last of the Prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things" (33:40) 

This is the verse of Quran and the divine message, so how can you say in your question that "Why have men concluded"? It is not the conclusion of men but a divine message which is very clear in its meanings.

 

9 hours ago, Daud AbuOmid said:

but I see no reason to believe their conclusion, since “no change wilt thou find in the practice of Allah”.

What is the Practice of Allah in your point of view? As for your referred verse (48:23), "The practice or dispensation of Allah" refers to the conflict between truth and falsehood which ultimately ends in the defeat of falsehood and triumph of truth.   

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On 7/14/2017 at 1:23 AM, Salsabeel said:

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Apostle of Allah and the Last of the Prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things" (33:40) 

The Quran is very specific. It doesn't say he is the last Apostle of Allah but the Seal of the Prophets. A Prophet(nabih) is someone who brings good news or prophesies. All the prophets have prophesied the Day of Judgement and now that it's here, there is nothing more to prophesy about it.

And being a Prophet (Nabi) doesn't necessarily mean being Messenger (Rasool). For example, Aaron, the brother of Moses was a Prophet but not a Messenger. 

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1 hour ago, megaman said:

I differentiate between a rasool and nabih. For me, last prophet doesn't imply last messenger. 

Every rasool is a nabi but not every nabi is a rasool... So the fact Muhammad  (sawa) was the last nabi makes him the last rasool. This is pretty basic, its taught to kids in madrassa. There is also mutawatir hadith where the prophet (sawa) says he's the last prophet.

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11 hours ago, Shi3i_jadeed said:

Every rasool is a nabi but not every nabi is a rasool... So the fact Muhammad  (sawa) was the last nabi makes him the last rasool. This is pretty basic, its taught to kids in madrassa. There is also mutawatir hadith where the prophet (sawa) says he's the last prophet.

But isn't Isa coming back on the Day of Judgement? Isn't He a Rasool?

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2 hours ago, megaman said:

But isn't Isa coming back on the Day of Judgement? Isn't He a Rasool?

Salam Isa (as) will come back after reappearance of Imam Mahdi (aj) to confirms him as his leader ,people will gather around their leader & they will judge as what judges about their leader & Isa (as) will take refugee & abondon in Judgement day from people that claimed he is God & worshiped him.

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20 hours ago, megaman said:

I differentiate between a rasool and nabih. For me, last prophet doesn't imply last messenger.  

Well if that is the case then you are not a Baha'i because Baha'u'llah implicitly states:

"Salutations be upon the Master of the World and the Teacher of the Nations (prophet Muhammad) by whom came to an end Messengership and Prophethood and [salutations] be upon his progeny and companions." (Baha'u'llah, Ishraqat wa chand lauh digar, p. 293)

 (اشراقات و چند لوح دیگر ص 293)"السّلام علی سيّد العالم و مربّی الامم الّذی به انتهت الرّسالة و النّبوّة و علی آله و اصحابه "

As you can see even Baha'u'llah admits that Prophet Muhammad is the seal of both prophets and messengers but you somehow claim to be a Baha'i but deny this.

Baha'u'llah knew there would be no prophets and messengers after prophet Muhammad so he devised a new plan. If he were to claim he was prophet or messenger everyone would oppose him, so he claimed that he was God Almighty Himself. This is pretty obvious in his writings where he explicitly makes this claim numerous times. For example when he was imprisoned he would claim:

"There is no God but me the lonely, the imprisoned." (Bahā’u’llāh, Āthār-i Qalam-i A`lā (Canada: Mu’assisiyi Ma`ārif Bahā’ī, 1996), vol. 1, no. 39, p. 226)

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Hi @hadez803,

5 hours ago, hadez803 said:

As you can see even Baha'u'llah admits that Prophet Muhammad is the seal of both prophets and messengers but you somehow claim to be a Baha'i but deny this.

 

I believe in the last Messenger in terms of cycles. So Adam was the first Messenger and Muhammad the last of the Adamic Cycle or Cycle of Prophecy. All of these Messengers have foretold of an age of peace, prosperity and Justice. Muhammad was the last of these Messengers or Prophets to talk about the Day of Judgement. A new cycle has started with Baha'u'llah, the cycle of fulfillment were we can see these ideals coming to a reality. More details here: https://bahai-library.com/momen_encyclopedia_ages_cycles 

If this was not so, how could then we expect the return of Christ with Mahdi? Is He not a Rasool? How else would He prove His Messengership without bringing the Word of God? That's like saying, the sun will rise tomorrow but won't have heat and light. Then, it is no longer the sun.

We read in the Quran:

Quote

And it was not [possible] for this Qur'an to be produced by other than Allah, but [it is] a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the [former] Scripture, about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds. Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah, if you should be truthful." (10:37-38) https://quran.com/10/37-39

5 hours ago, hadez803 said:

"There is no God but me the lonely, the imprisoned." (Bahā’u’llāh, Āthār-i Qalam-i A`lā (Canada: Mu’assisiyi Ma`ārif Bahā’ī, 1996), vol. 1, no. 39, p. 226)

I personally haven't read this but I trust that you are honest and tried your best to translate. The title Baha'u'llah means "Glory of God". That in itself is proof that He isn't claiming to be God.

We also know that there is only one God and we shouldn't attach partners with God. He is exalted above and beyond our understanding. Also, while Baha'u'llah was imprisoned in the Black Pit of Tehran, He received a revelation from God. 

A quote by Baha'u'llah:

Quote

Give heed to My warning, ye people of Persia! If I be slain at your hands, God will assuredly raise up one who will fill the seat made vacant through My death, for such is God’s method carried into effect of old, and no change can ye find in God’s method of dealing. Seek ye to put out God’s light that shineth upon His earth? Averse is God from what ye desire. He shall perfect His light, albeit ye abhor it in the secret of your hearts. (Gleanings, page 224, 225) http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-113.html 

This quote makes it perfectly clear that He isn't claiming to be God.

Another point I would like to make is the Voice. What I mean is that to differentiate between the Voice of God and the Prophets and Messengers. For example, you and I can read the Bible and not think that Jesus is claiming to be God and yet many Christians believe that Christ is God. In the Quran we read the following, but no Muslim thinks that Prophet Muhammad is claiming to be God:

Quote

Indeed, I am Allah . There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance. (20:14) https://quran.com/20/14

Something else to consider is the context and style of the Writing, if it's written in a poetic way. I can't comment on the style because I haven't read the original but we can look at the context. Baha'is use the term Manifestations of God to refer to Baha'u'llah and other Messengers of God. These Messengers/ Manifestations are the Word of God themselves. For example: 

Quote

"The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of God, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary" (Quran 4:171) https://quran.com/4/171 

The Word of God is the Will of God.

Quote

"He it is who gives life and causes death; and when He decrees a matter, He but says to it, "Be," and it is." https://quran.com/40/68

Also notice how the quote above starts with He, referring to God and the other one with I, which also refers to God. An example of differentiating the Voice.

Back to the topic of context, the quote could be referring to the Word/Will of God being imprisoned but in reality, nothing frustrates the Will of God.

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On 6/17/2018 at 2:18 AM, megaman said:

A new cycle has started with Baha'u'llah, the cycle of fulfillment were we can see these ideals coming to a reality. More details here: https://bahai-library.com/momen_encyclopedia_ages_cycles 

If this was not so, how could then we expect the return of Christ with Mahdi? Is He not a Rasool? How else would He prove His Messengership without bringing the Word of God? That's like saying, the sun will rise tomorrow but won't have heat and light. Then, it is no longer the sun.

This is what mimicry by Satan to destroy true religion by mirroring it  is mentioned in Quran that devil illustrates this matter for people so he distort the true image & replaces  false image instead of it .

وَإِذْ زَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الشَّيْطَانُ أَعْمَالَهُمْ وَقَالَ لَا غَالِبَ لَكُمُ الْيَوْمَ مِنَ النَّاسِ وَإِنِّي جَارٌ لَّكُمْ ۖ فَلَمَّا تَرَاءَتِ الْفِئَتَانِ نَكَصَ عَلَىٰ عَقِبَيْهِ وَقَالَ إِنِّي بَرِيءٌ مِّنكُمْ إِنِّي أَرَىٰ مَا لَا تَرَوْنَ إِنِّي أَخَافُ اللَّـهَ ۚ وَاللَّـهُ شَدِيدُ الْعِقَابِ ﴿٤٨

 

) And when the Shaitan made their works fair seeming to them, and said: No one can overcome you this day, and surely I am your protector: but when the two parties came in sight of each other he turned upon his heels, and said: Surely I am clear of you, surely I see what you do not see, surely I fear Allah; and Allah is severe in requiting (evil). (48)

 

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.shakir/8:48

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Dear @Ashvazdanghe, Moses revealed the Word of God, Jesus did the same and also Prophet Muhammad. Why would Isa not reveal any in His Return?

Quote

وَلَوْ أَنَّمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ مِن شَجَرَةٍ أَقْلَامٌ وَالْبَحْرُ يَمُدُّهُ مِن بَعْدِهِ سَبْعَةُ أَبْحُرٍ مَّا نَفِدَتْ كَلِمَاتُ اللَّهِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ 

And if whatever trees upon the earth were pens and the sea [was ink], replenished thereafter by seven [more] seas, the words of Allah would not be exhausted. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

Quran (31:27)

اسْتِكْبَارًا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَمَكْرَ السَّيِّئِ ۚ وَلَا يَحِيقُ الْمَكْرُ السَّيِّئُ إِلَّا بِأَهْلِهِ ۚ فَهَلْ يَنظُرُونَ إِلَّا سُنَّتَ الْأَوَّلِينَ ۚ فَلَن تَجِدَ لِسُنَّتِ اللَّهِ تَبْدِيلًا ۖ وَلَن تَجِدَ لِسُنَّتِ اللَّهِ تَحْوِيلًا 

[Due to] arrogance in the land and plotting of evil; but the evil plot does not encompass except its own people. Then do they await except the way of the former peoples? But you will never find in the way of Allah any change, and you will never find in the way of Allah any alteration. 

Quran(35:43)

Just because new Word is being revealed, doesn't mean the previous One was bad. Who am I to say anything about the Word of God? God is All-Wise and we are not. We have limitations. We are dependent on God and He is Self-Sufficient. Because of His infinite Wisdom, we only receive what we are capable of. If this was not so, the Quran would have been revealed to Abraham and Moses too. But the people of that time had not matured to the point of receiving it.

Quote

يَا ابْنَ الْجَمالِ

وَرُوحِي وَعِنايَتِي ثُمَّ رَحْمَتِي وَجَمالِي، كُلُّ ما نَزَّلْتُ عَلَيْكَ مِنْ لِسانِ الْقُدْرَةِ وَكَتَبْتُهُ بِقَلَمِ القُوَّةِ قَدْ نَزَّلْناهُ عَلى قَدْرِكَ وَلَحْنِكَ لا عَلى شَأْنِي وَلَحْني.

O SON OF BEAUTY!

By My spirit and by My favor! By My mercy and by My beauty! All that I have revealed unto thee with the tongue of power, and have written for thee with the pen of might, hath been in accordance with thy capacity and understanding, not with My state and the melody of My voice. 

-Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah, Part I, Arabic 67

 

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3 hours ago, megaman said:

Why would Isa not reveal any in His Return?

Salam ,it because Imam Mahdi (aj) will reveal the word of Allah & he will be leader of Isa (as),he  returns to verifies  Imam & convinces Christians to accept Islam without war.

 

3 hours ago, megaman said:

If this was not so, the Quran would have been revealed to Abraham and Moses too. But the people of that time had not matured to the point of receiving it.

Quran is not a separate book ,it confirms the true books also Imam Mahdi (aj) will shows people all divine books from prophet Adam (as) to prophet Mohammad (pbu) 

but Bahai books are just scum ,Baha'u'Allah just play with shia Islamic words & say it in his way of speech ,but his followers blindly believe that these words is from him as I said before Shaitan uses mirroring trick to decieve naive people , you want to see sky but you look at a dirty mirror to see the whole sky but sky is above you .

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Hi @Ashvazdanghe, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you believed that no Word of God will be revealed but this makes sense now, thanks.

The Quran and verses like it are only producible by God, it's not something that anyone can do.

Quote

وَمَا كَانَ هَٰذَا الْقُرْآنُ أَن يُفْتَرَىٰ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ وَلَٰكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ الْكِتَابِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ مِن رَّبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ - 10:37

And it was not [possible] for this Qur'an to be produced by other than Allah, but [it is] a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the [former] Scripture, about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.

أَمْ يَقُولُونَ افْتَرَاهُ ۖ قُلْ فَأْتُوا بِسُورَةٍ مِّثْلِهِ وَادْعُوا مَنِ اسْتَطَعْتُم مِّن دُونِ اللَّهِ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ - 10:38

Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah, if you should be truthful."

 

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3 minutes ago, megaman said:

The Quran and verses like it are only producible by God, it's not something that anyone can do.

This is what all muslims & me believe to it but Iqan & rest of Bahai books are man made books .

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On 6/17/2018 at 3:18 AM, megaman said:

Hi @hadez803,

I believe in the last Messenger in terms of cycles. So Adam was the first Messenger and Muhammad the last of the Adamic Cycle or Cycle of Prophecy. All of these Messengers have foretold of an age of peace, prosperity and Justice. Muhammad was the last of these Messengers or Prophets to talk about the Day of Judgement. A new cycle has started with Baha'u'llah, the cycle of fulfillment were we can see these ideals coming to a reality. More details here: https://bahai-library.com/momen_encyclopedia_ages_cycles 

If this was not so, how could then we expect the return of Christ with Mahdi? Is He not a Rasool? How else would He prove His Messengership without bringing the Word of God? That's like saying, the sun will rise tomorrow but won't have heat and light. Then, it is no longer the sun.

We read in the Quran:

I personally haven't read this but I trust that you are honest and tried your best to translate. The title Baha'u'llah means "Glory of God". That in itself is proof that He isn't claiming to be God.

We also know that there is only one God and we shouldn't attach partners with God. He is exalted above and beyond our understanding. Also, while Baha'u'llah was imprisoned in the Black Pit of Tehran, He received a revelation from God. 

A quote by Baha'u'llah:

This quote makes it perfectly clear that He isn't claiming to be God.

Another point I would like to make is the Voice. What I mean is that to differentiate between the Voice of God and the Prophets and Messengers. For example, you and I can read the Bible and not think that Jesus is claiming to be God and yet many Christians believe that Christ is God. In the Quran we read the following, but no Muslim thinks that Prophet Muhammad is claiming to be God:

Something else to consider is the context and style of the Writing, if it's written in a poetic way. I can't comment on the style because I haven't read the original but we can look at the context. Baha'is use the term Manifestations of God to refer to Baha'u'llah and other Messengers of God. These Messengers/ Manifestations are the Word of God themselves. For example: 

The Word of God is the Will of God.

Also notice how the quote above starts with He, referring to God and the other one with I, which also refers to God. An example of differentiating the Voice.

Back to the topic of context, the quote could be referring to the Word/Will of God being imprisoned but in reality, nothing frustrates the Will of God.

I would just like to answer to this :

Quote

All of these Messengers have foretold of an age of peace, prosperity and Justice.

Where is the age of peace? Baha'u'llah came and gone to Abha Kingdom some 150 year ago and Baha'is are still waiting for a "great calamity" after which the "great peace" is supposed to come. Presently Baha'is don't want to interfere in the process of "deconstruction of the Old World Order", they just standby and see it collapsing and they claim that they are building a new civilization and "new world order" by converting people to Bahaism. This is just so mean!!! You see people dying with excitement claiming that this is the plan of God (Baha'u'llah) and that once this "Old Building" is collapsed Baha'is will build a "new building" at its place! One Baha'i counselor says this:

Baha'i faith is a scam. It wan't the world to suffer because only after a lot of suffering people will recognize Baha'u'llah!!!

Muslims believe that Mahdi will establish peace not an UHJ that will dictate the NWO. Ok?

Baha'i faith (because it is not from God but from Baha'u'llah) is into so many problems today. After 150 years people don't even know that there is such a religion! People join this faith after getting trapped into its "marketing slogans" but leave very soon. Baha'is are waiting for "Entry By Troops" since 1940s-50s but they have only witnessed "Exit by Troops". Great Baha'i historians and scholars have left the faith after deep study. Some scholars are placed under "administratively sanctions" for their independent beliefs... Baha'ism got split into as many as 15 splinter groups (sects), there are multiple Guardians, elders... Baha'is are struggling to unite the people of their own so called "Religion", they are suing Baha'is of other denomination into courts for using their registered names and symbols, there are Election frauds, financial scams, sexual scandals, racism and so many other issues.

To me this is a cult and it will only disunite the people more and more.

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9 hours ago, Badi19 said:

It wan't the world to suffer because only after a lot of suffering people will recognize Baha'u'llah!!!

Hi @Badi19, I don't want the people of the world to suffer.

Quote

“You must become distinguished for loving humanity, for unity and accord, for love and justice. In brief, you must become distinguished in all the virtues of the human world—for faithfulness and sincerity, for justice and fidelity, for firmness and steadfastness, for philanthropic deeds and service to the human world, for love toward every human being, for unity and accord with all people, for removing prejudices and promoting international peace”. -‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace 

This process of disintegration of the way of the past is an inevitable process. We can't build an new building on top of an old one.

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12 hours ago, megaman said:

Hi @Badi19, I don't want the people of the world to suffer.

This process of disintegration of the way of the past is an inevitable process. We can't build an new building on top of an old one.

Hi Megaman,

Quote

Once Varqa asked Baha'u'llah, "How will the Cause of God be universally adopted by mankind?" Baha'u'llah said that first, the nations of the world would arm themselves with infernal engines of war, and when fully armed would attack each other like bloodthirsty beasts. As a result, there would be enormous bloodshed throughout the world. Then the wise men from all nations would gather together to investigate the cause of such bloodshed. They would come to the conclusion that prejudices were the cause, a major form being religous prejudice. They would therefore try to eliminate religion so as to eliminate prejudice. Later they would realize that man cannot live without religion. Then they would study the teachings of all religions to see which of the religions conformed to the prevailing conditions of the time. It is then that the Cause of God would become universal.

"Revelation of Baha'u'llah, vol. 4, p.56"

 

Also listen to this 3 Minute video : Baha'i New World Order to come after Calamities...

Hope that helps you!

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