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In the Name of God بسم الله
sidnaq

Can anyone refute or explain this?

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18 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

1. How we can interpret that the city mentioned in hadith is persian Isfahan?

2. there are only few jews present inside Iran currently/

3. the following is the hadith that mentions the fews:

Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said:

The Dajjal would be followed by seventy thousand Jews of Isfahan wearing Persian shawls.

حَدَّثَنَا مَنْصُورُ بْنُ أَبِي مُزَاحِمٍ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ حَمْزَةَ، عَنِ الأَوْزَاعِيِّ، عَنْ إِسْحَاقَ، بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَنْ عَمِّهِ، أَنَسِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ يَتْبَعُ الدَّجَّالَ مِنْ يَهُودِ أَصْبَهَانَ سَبْعُونَ أَلْفًا عَلَيْهِمُ الطَّيَالِسَةُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2944

In-book reference : Book 54, Hadith 155

The hadith seems to be a daef .although i do not have its grading from the link given belwo:

http://sunnah.com/muslim/54/155

4. the following hadith from praises the people  of Itan/persia:

Narrated Abu Hurairah:
"Some people among the Companions of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Who are these people whom Allah mentioned, that if we turn away they would replace us, then they would not be like us?'" He said: "And Salman was beside the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), so the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) patted Salman's thigh and said: 'This one and his companions, and by the One in Whose Hand is my soul! If faith were suspended from Pleiades, then it would be reached by men from Persia.'"
 
حَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ حُجْرٍ، أَنْبَأَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ نَجِيحٍ، عَنِ الْعَلاَءِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّهُ قَالَ قَالَ نَاسٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ مَنْ هَؤُلاَءِ الَّذِينَ ذَكَرَ اللَّهُ إِنْ تَوَلَّيْنَا اسْتُبْدِلُوا بِنَا ثُمَّ لَمْ يَكُونُوا أَمْثَالَنَا قَالَ وَكَانَ سَلْمَانُ بِجَنْبِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ فَضَرَبَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَخِذَ سَلْمَانَ قَالَ ‏ "‏ هَذَا وَأَصْحَابُهُ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَوْ كَانَ الإِيمَانُ مَنُوطًا بِالثُّرَيَّا لَتَنَاوَلَهُ رِجَالٌ مِنْ فَارِسَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى وَعَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ نَجِيحٍ هُوَ وَالِدُ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْمَدِينِيِّ وَقَدْ رَوَى عَلِيُّ بْنُ حُجْرٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ الْكَثِيرَ ‏.‏ وَحَدَّثَنَا عَلِيٌّ بِهَذَا الْحَدِيثِ عَنْ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ ‏.‏
Grade Hasan (Darussalam)  
English reference  : Vol. 5, Book 44, Hadith 3261
Arabic reference  : Book 47, Hadith 3570

http://sunnah.com/urn/642960

Its very easy to verify such things, you just need to do a little research without being biased.

1. Its persian Isfahan since the same hadith gives a hint i.e they will be weraing persian shawls. And we know that Isfahan in famous in wolrd for its artwork like shawls, rugs, wall art etc. Isfahan golden era started during the shia safavid danysty. More on Isfahan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isfahan

2. This is how jews feel at city of Isfahan http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/11/middleeast/iran-jews-esfahan/index.html

3. Hadith is from sahih muslim, so it should be authentic.

4. Many scholars are ahlul sunnah are from persia, whose books are spreading faith all over the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Persian_Sunni_Muslim_scholars_of_Islam

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11 minutes ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

Imam Ali Reza a.s have big objection. Source: Bihar-ul-Anwar vol-25/343. http://dlia.ir/kotob/arabic/531/beharo_al_anvar_025/index.html
 

Prayer of Imam Ali reza a.s

Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim.

O Allah, verily, i disassociate myself before you from the strength and power. There is no strength and power except with you. O Allah, verily, i seek refuge in you and disaasociate myself before you from those who claim for us what is not true for us. O Allah, verily i disassociate myself before you from those who say regarding us what we have not said about ourselves.

O Allah, to you belong the creation and from you is the provision. You do we worship and from You we do seek help.

O Allah, You are our creator and the creator of our first fathers and our last fathers. O Allah, lordship is not suitable except with you. and Divinity befits non except for You.

O Allah, verily we are your slaves and sons of your slaves. We have no power over ourselves in respect of benefit or harm, nor death, life or resurrection.

O Allah, whoever claims that we are lords, then we are free from him, whoever claims that to us is the power of creation and providing sustenance, then we are free from him. We are free from him like Issa is free from the christians.

O Allah, we have never called them to what they claim, so do not take us into account fro what they say and forgive us for they claim.

My Lord do not leave upon the earth from them an inhabitant, indeed if you leave them they will mislead your servants and not beget except wicked one and disbeliever.

Great reply  by Ya Allah Madad. 

Imams have extraordinary power. That is OK. How does it benefit . Imams are for guidance. We have to avail it and learn from them .

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On 6/26/2017 at 1:35 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Sis, you know very well that those are duas, not wishes, it's called Dua-e-Ariza and the intercession? Nonsense, we are not praying to them directly, rather we are asking the Imams to pray for us. Whoever did this video is ignorant, Sidnaq.

Look at this: http://www.duas.org/arizatoimam.htm 

There's nothing blasphemous about it, it is simply asking the Mahdi to pray to Allah for you.

Stop watching this garbage, we have warned you time and time again to stop. I have warned you to stop and suggested that you read books from Al-Islam.org. What ever happened to that?

I am not mad at you but I am mad at this disgusting and ignorant video. Nothing good comes from this flith, only suffering and fitnah. A waste of precious time, effort and brain cells went into this video.

Brother those who are writing letters to Imam are praying and asking him directly, not to Allah. Then he will pray to Allah directly for you. You pray to him then he will pray to Allah for you. This also shows they believe Imam in living under that well thats why they are putting letters to it, hpoing that they will reach to our Imam.

Read only books from Al-islam.org. Brother is it not like saying follow al-islam.org blindly and dont read books from other websites. WHY? Is everything that al-islam.org says is true and correct? And whatever others say are wrong?

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36 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

and the typical reaction of the layman shia is to defend these practices even if they don't believe in them. Usually they attack the person who makes these claims and like to sweep the whole thing under the rug.

It is obvious that enemies of shia Islam will use the weaknesses of shias against them. It does not change the reality of the matter, that those weaknesses are weaknesses. And very shameful ones. I have to practice taqya mostly because of the shias wrong practices and not because of the sunnis. And it's the same look i get from pretty much every non-muslim when they find out that i am muslim. It's as if i can read their minds saying: "oh so you believe it's ok to have sex with 9 year old girls?!?!", but they are not saying it.

Such defense is because many ghullat beliefs are now part of fundamental belifs of shias. Like asking Imams for help, infallibility, divine messages, additon in adhan etc.

Shia Allama Mamqani wrote in Tanqihul Maqal (Volume 1, Page 334):

قال المامقاني في تنقيح المقال ج1 ص334 : قد نبهنا غير مرة على أن رمي القدماء سيما القميين منهم ، الرجل بالغلو لا يعتنى به ، لإن الاعتقاد بجملة مما هو الآن من ضروريات المذهب ، كان معدوداً عندهم من الغلو ، ألا ترى عدهم نفي السهو عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله والأئمة عليهم السلام غلواً ، مع أن من لم ينفي السهو عنهم اليوم لا يعد مؤمناً ، ولقد أجاد الفاضل الحائري حيث قال : رمي القميين بالغلو وإخراجهم من قم لا يدل على ضعف أصلاً ، فإن أجل علمائنا وأوثقهم غالٍ على زعمهم ، ولو وجدوه في قم لأخرجوه منها لا محالة

We have warned more than once that an accusation from the classical scholars, especially of the ones from Qum, of a man (hadith narrator) being ghali should not be taken into consideration. This is because overall what is considered among the fundamentals of the religion these days was considered Ghuluw by them. Do not you see that they counted denial of the belief that the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) can forget as Ghuluw, even though one who does not deny that they (as) may forget would not be considered a momin (believer) these days. And Ayatullah Fadhil al Haeri excellently put it, where he said: “Accusation by the classical scholars of Qum, of hadith narrators being ghali and their exiling them from Qum (on charges of ghulu) does not prove in principle their da’f (weakness/unreliability). For indeed, most of our scholars and their most trustworthy ones would have been considered ghali by them, and if they had found them in Qum then they would have definitely exiled them from it inevitably.”

Scholars should take the responsibilty and disown themselves from such acts/people and try to correct them from all platforms tv channels, newspapers, website etc. But I think currently they are also under taqqiyah. Because some scholars had raised voices against such acts in the past but were all killed by those extreme shias. 

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40 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Like a tribal pride, and people will reject the truth because it comes from people who are bad. But fact is that bad people can say truths. So, in this way iblis came up with the ingenious plan of keeping shias away from the truth by rubbing it in their own faces. People will avoid surrendering to the truth, because Salafi said so. Just look at this thread. People even refuse to address the matter because the video was made by salafis. But the problem is that the issue in the video is actual footage of shias. It was Imam Ali who is said to have said: "don't look at who said something, but rather what is said."

Well said. Epic line.

Content is important not the title or who is saying this.

Same is the problem with many sunnis like brelvi sufis who also do not accept the truth about tawassul and istighasah since its coming from salafis.

This reminds me of following verse. Rum 31-32

[Adhere to it], turning in repentance to Him, and fear Him and establish prayer and do not be of those who associate others with Allah

[Or] of those who have divided their religion and become sects, every faction rejoicing in what it has.

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25 minutes ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

Same is the problem with many sunnis like brelvi sufis who also do not accept the truth about tawassul and istighasah since its coming from salafis.

actually i don't believe that making dua to others than Allah in form of supplication being a legitimate form of waseelah. but the point here is that sunis won't accept the shia point of view about the wilaya because many shias are insulting the sahaba. So the sunis will dismiss the notion because of ego again. They say "how can somebody insult them etc." instead of seeing what is the truth from objective reasoning. So likewise iblis uses the same tactics from the other way round to keep people away from the wilaya. Rub the truth in their face with bad manners and the people will reject the truth because of the annoying people, and not because of it making no sense.

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19 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

actually i don't believe that making dua to others than Allah in form of supplication being a legitimate form of waseelah. but the point here is that sunis won't accept the shia point of view about the wilaya because many shias are insulting the sahaba. So the sunis will dismiss the notion because of ego again. They say "how can somebody insult them etc." instead of seeing what is the truth from objective reasoning. So likewise iblis uses the same tactics from the other way round to keep people away from the wilaya. Rub the truth in their face with bad manners and the people will reject the truth because of the annoying people, and not because of it making no sense.

Exactly ego issues. They all believe truth is only with us. Thats why they dont even listen/read to others stuff properly. And whenever they listen/read they listen only in order to refute them.

This is not at all a waseela. But I dont understand how people can fall in this tactic of iblees. While there are hundreds of clear verses on this issue of not invoke others than Allah in the form of dua.

Word wasela has been used only twice in Quran. But sadly people doing this are giving only importance to 5:35 and are totaly ignoring the other place 17:57.

Those whom they invoke seek means of access (waseela) to their Lord, [striving as to] which of them would be nearest, and they hope for His mercy and fear His punishment. Indeed, the punishment of your Lord is ever feared.

It means waseela is something else for which Allah swt is talking about in 5:35. Otherwise He would have not tauted them by saying those to whom you invoke besides Me, themselves seek means of access to their Lord.

Many people accept one part of Quran but not the other. May be thats why they fall into the trap of iblees.

 

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1 hour ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

Word wasela has been used only twice in Quran. But sadly people doing this are giving only importance to 5:35 and are totaly ignoring the other place 17:57.

oh my God praise the Lord!! this is the first time in the history of shiachat that somebody uses this obvious argument other than me. It's not like i invented the quran or something, but i certainly am willing to change any of my beliefs if it can be proved from the quran. 

This is beautiful masha Allah! I love it!

It's funny how waseela is documented in the hadiths to include pretty much every good deed, and the only thing we can prove in the quran that it is not, people say that it is it! Like, as you said exactly we have the word wasila written twice, and once it is clearly written in context to not making dua to others than Allah. And then ironically people make the word wasila synonymous with making duas to others than Allah. That is exactly 180 degrees from the meaning in the quran, and in my opinion is an insult to intelligence. I am glad that i finally found someone to discuss this with all thanks to Allah.

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4 hours ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

Imam Ali Reza a.s have big objection. Source: Bihar-ul-Anwar vol-25/343. http://dlia.ir/kotob/arabic/531/beharo_al_anvar_025/index.html
 

Prayer of Imam Ali reza a.s

Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim.

O Allah, verily, i disassociate myself before you from the strength and power. There is no strength and power except with you. O Allah, verily, i seek refuge in you and disaasociate myself before you from those who claim for us what is not true for us. O Allah, verily i disassociate myself before you from those who say regarding us what we have not said about ourselves.

O Allah, to you belong the creation and from you is the provision. You do we worship and from You we do seek help.

Surah Al-Qamar, Verse 1:

اقْتَرَبَتِ السَّاعَةُ وَانشَقَّ الْقَمَرُ

The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 49:

وَرَسُولًا إِلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنِّي قَدْ جِئْتُكُم بِآيَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُم مِّنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ فَأَنفُخُ فِيهِ فَيَكُونُ طَيْرًا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَأُبْرِئُ الْأَكْمَهَ وَالْأَبْرَصَ وَأُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَأُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا تَأْكُلُونَ وَمَا تَدَّخِرُونَ فِي بُيُوتِكُمْ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَةً لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ

And (make him) an apostle to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Ar-Rad, Verse 38:

وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلًا مِّن قَبْلِكَ وَجَعَلْنَا لَهُمْ أَزْوَاجًا وَذُرِّيَّةً وَمَا كَانَ لِرَسُولٍ أَن يَأْتِيَ بِآيَةٍ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ لِكُلِّ أَجَلٍ كِتَابٌ

And certainly We sent apostles before you and gave them wives and children, and it is not in (the power of) an apostle to bring a sign except by Allah's permission; for every term there is an appointment.

(English - Shakir)

These are the prophets, now lets see other examples:

Surah An-Naml, Verse 40:

قَالَ الَّذِي عِندَهُ عِلْمٌ مِّنَ الْكِتَابِ أَنَا آتِيكَ بِهِ قَبْلَ أَن يَرْتَدَّ إِلَيْكَ طَرْفُكَ فَلَمَّا رَآهُ مُسْتَقِرًّا عِندَهُ قَالَ هَٰذَا مِن فَضْلِ رَبِّي لِيَبْلُوَنِي أَأَشْكُرُ أَمْ أَكْفُرُ وَمَن شَكَرَ فَإِنَّمَا يَشْكُرُ لِنَفْسِهِ وَمَن كَفَرَ فَإِنَّ رَبِّي غَنِيٌّ كَرِيمٌ

One who had the knowledge of the Book said: I will bring it to you in the twinkling of an eye. Then when he saw it settled beside him, he said: This is of the grace of my Lord that He may try me whether I am grateful or ungrateful; and whoever is grateful, he is grateful only for his own soul, and whoever is ungrateful, then surely my Lord is Self-sufficient, Honored.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Kahf, Verse 65:

فَوَجَدَا عَبْدًا مِّنْ عِبَادِنَا آتَيْنَاهُ رَحْمَةً مِّنْ عِندِنَا وَعَلَّمْنَاهُ مِن لَّدُنَّا عِلْمًا

Then they found one from among Our servants whom We had granted mercy from Us and whom We had taught knowledge from Ourselves.

(English - Shakir)

Read the whole story till verse 82, when you reach to this sentence:

رَحْمَةً مِّن رَّبِّكَ وَمَا فَعَلْتُهُ عَنْ أَمْرِي

( a mercy from your Lord, and I did not do it of my own accord.)

Think on it.

Now lets see a tradition:

عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن مثنى الحناط عن أبي بصير قال: دخلت على أبي جعفر عليه السلام فقلت له: أنتم ورثة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله؟ قال: نعم، قلت: رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وارث الأنبياء، علم كما علموا؟ قال لي: نعم، قلت: فأنتم تقدرون على أن تحيوا الموتى وتبرؤا الأكمه والأبرص؟ قال: نعم بإذن الله، ثم قال لي: ادن مني يا أبا محمد فدنوت منه فمسح على وجهي وعلى عيني فأبصرت الشمس والسماء والأرض والبيوت وكل شئ في البلد ثم قال لي: أتحب أن تكون هكذا ولك ما للناس وعليك ما عليهم يوم القيامة أو تعود كما كنت ولك الجنة خالصا؟ قالت: أعود كما كنت، فمسح على عيني فعدت كما كنت، قال: فحدثت ابن أبي عمير بهذا، فقال أشهد أن هذا حق كما أن النهار حق

Translating the part I highlighted red: I (Abi Basir who is narrating the Hadith) said: "So you have decree (or power) over giving life to the dead, and curing the blind and lepers?" He (Imam Abi Ja'far Muhammad Al-Baqir (as)) said: "Yes, by the permission of Allah,"

This is found in Al-Kafi volume 1 page 470 hadith 3

Allama Majlisi called it's chain Hasan (Good) in Mir'at Al-Uqul volume 6 page 20

Edited by Salsabeel

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3 hours ago, islam25 said:

Imams have extraordinary power. That is OK. How does it benefit . Imams are for guidance. We have to avail it and learn from them .

Read all comments of these people brother, their claim is that Prophets & Imams do mistakes & commit sins. 

For them, Syeda Fatima & Abu Bakr both were with the truth in the matter related to Fadak.

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18 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Read all comments of these people brother, their claim is that Prophets & Imams do mistakes & commit sins. 

For them, Syeda Fatima & Abu Bakr both were with the truth in the matter related to Fadak.

Mr.That is their belief. We can't force them our belief. And they have to for their belief and action. 

Our all effort should be how follow Prophet as and imams so that we won't commit sin. Just forceing others to believe how extraordinary power won't benefit us or others. 

A person values before Allah is how much he is away from sin and close to Allah. 

 

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4 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

oh my God praise the Lord!! this is the first time in the history of shiachat that somebody uses this obvious argument other than me. It's not like i invented the quran or something, but i certainly am willing to change any of my beliefs if it can be proved from the quran. 

This is beautiful masha Allah! I love it!

It's funny how waseela is documented in the hadiths to include pretty much every good deed, and the only thing we can prove in the quran that it is not, people say that it is it! Like, as you said exactly we have the word wasila written twice, and once it is clearly written in context to not making dua to others than Allah. And then ironically people make the word wasila synonymous with making duas to others than Allah. That is exactly 180 degrees from the meaning in the quran, and in my opinion is an insult to intelligence. I am glad that i finally found someone to discuss this with all thanks to Allah.

Brother, thats why its word of Allah swt.

As a general rule important events/concepts are atleast mentioned twice in Quran. So that in case at one place if we understand incorrectly then the other place should correct and explain us. 

And thats why Quran also dont need any tafsir to explain its basic rules and concepts except only in some rare cases.

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2 hours ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

Exactly ego issues. They all believe truth is only with us. Thats why they dont even listen/read to others stuff properly. And whenever they listen/read they listen only in order to refute them.

This is not at all a waseela. But I dont understand how people can fall in this tactic of iblees. While there are hundreds of clear verses on this issue of not invoke others than Allah in the form of dua.

Word wasela has been used only twice in Quran. But sadly people doing this are giving only importance to 5:35 and are totaly ignoring the other place 17:57.

Those whom they invoke seek means of access (waseela) to their Lord, [striving as to] which of them would be nearest, and they hope for His mercy and fear His punishment. Indeed, the punishment of your Lord is ever feared.

It means waseela is something else for which Allah swt is talking about in 5:35. Otherwise He would have not tauted them by saying those to whom you invoke besides Me, themselves seek means of access to their Lord.

Many people accept one part of Quran but not the other. May be thats why they fall into the trap of iblees.

 

Do you believe in wasilla or not. 

What is your interpretation of wasilla. 

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3 hours ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

Brother, thats why its word of Allah swt.

As a general rule important events/concepts are atleast mentioned twice in Quran. So that in case at one place if we understand incorrectly then the other place should correct and explain us. 

And thats why Quran also dont need any tafsir to explain its basic rules and concepts except only in some rare cases.

exactly!

people also tend to say: "to understand quran you first need to check hadiths, or scholars first". 

but it is exactly the other way round. First must be quran, and then to understand the hadiths, we must check quran first on every issue. Many if not most controversial issues are shown in various angles in the quran, so as you said there is already enough proof from the quran to make it clear. But to use contradictory hadiths to ignore quran can never be right. But we can use contradictory verse to ignore hadiths. But ironically most hadiths are in tune with quran anyway. So most innovations are not even present in neither quran and hadiths. Such an innovation includes self beating or blood letting, as well as making duas to others than Allah.

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6 hours ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

1. Its persian Isfahan since the same hadith gives a hint i.e they will be weraing persian shawls. And we know that Isfahan in famous in wolrd for its artwork like shawls, rugs, wall art etc. Isfahan golden era started during the shia safavid danysty. More on Isfahan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isfahan

3. Hadith is from sahih muslim, so it should be authentic.

I have the following remarks on the post:

1. where does the arabic text of hadith mention the word Persian in it? (ie Faras)

2. The presence of hadith in sahih muslim needs its grading before a hadith can be judged tobe authentic or not

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On 6/27/2017 at 7:12 PM, First Responder said:

So what if there is a hadith? You also bring me a hadith from the Sunni's as if it will strengthen your case... I won't bring any sources yet, very powerful sources to swallow but let me start off by making you think...So if Ahlul Bayt a.s. can fulfill wishes, give wealth, control the universe like some say, decide who goes to heaven and hell...even worse, the names of Allah manifests them like one person said ....What is left? How are they different than Allah aza wa jal?!?! Don't give me the typical  "by the will" of Allah answer which so far I haven't had a person back it up.

The problem is that you consider it an absolute power, an absolute knowledge, an absolute infallibility. These are all shirk akbar. There have been always a minority of Ghali Shias who believed in an absolute power, knowledge or infallibility.

In fact the mainstream Shias consider great power, knowledge, infallibility for Rasulullah and then the twelve imams after him, not an absolute power, knowledge or infallibility. There is a big difference.

No Shia says that there is no difference between Rasulullah and Allah ! except the ghali mushrik ones.

What you say is a shallow and superficial perspective about the beliefs of Shias. If someone has a deep and unbiased knowledge about the Shia literature, he knows that your viewpoint is unrealistic and a bit naive.

but you shall not, unless Allah wills, the Lord of all the Worlds. (81:29)

Only the will of Allah is absolute and all other wills even the will of the greatest prophet, Rasulullah, and his greatest successors, the twelve imams, are based on the will of Allah.

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On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 6:46 AM, maes said:

but you shall not, unless Allah wills, the Lord of all the Worlds. (81:29)

Only the will of Allah is absolute and all other wills even the will of the greatest prophet, Rasulullah, and his greatest successors, the twelve imams, are based on the will of Allah.

That was not even worth a reply but I will, for the viewers to help them evade those shirky ways and so I don't the burden of "he didn't answer so he lost". This is the problem, you solve it (even though it already is solved). 

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

وما تشاءون إلا أن يشاء الله رب العالمين

صدق الله العلي الظيم

How do you connect a QURANIC VERSE that literally says  (وما تشاءون) "what you want/desire (for the lack of better words)  (إلا أن يشاء الله رب العالمين) can only be achieved by the will and permission of Allah a.w.  with what YOU said?

 

[Edit](p.s. mainstream ideologies doesn't hold water.)

Edited by First Responder

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On 26/06/2017 at 0:25 AM, 313 Seeker said:

much of what is in this movie is a disgrace for shias, and used by their enemies to attack them. This includes:

- making dua for help to the imams, such as asking them for help concerning sickness, etc

- this making dua is often accompanied with fake images of the imams that people imagine and look to much like Christians look to images of Jesus and Mary for help.

- the self beating and flagellation that just makes the shias look so bad, and is not tradition of any prophet or imam.

- the propagation of untruths like the claim that the imam(s) manages all affairs of the world, and that because of them there is no chaos in the world - as said by the ex president of Iran. And that other scholar after him saying that all the keys of all matters are with the imam, that is just purely wrong.

 

It is sad that many shia will not tolerate and self criticism amongst those who call themselves shia, and will go to any length to defend their practices or mistakes. 

 

Let us see what people say to the following video that i have posted before and got no comment for. Here are people who call the shrine on a telephone to ask the imam reza for help. These practices are purely praying to others than Allah to me, and i don't see any tradition of ahlul bayt or quran or prophetic teachings in this. Just purely human pitfalls that come again and again through history. Please, anybody tell me what you think of the following hotline to imam reza for praying to him:

 

Thank God that all shia books are unanimous about praying only to Allah, making dua only to Allah, supplicating only to Allah, and the same goes with the Quran. Never did an imam or prophet pray to a martyred person for help, and the whole message of Islam is to keep that to Allah. So the one or two (literally) hadiths that contradict the countless truthful ones won't make any difference in this. True shias of ahl bayt will only pray to Allah.

The Imams have the Ability to heal by the permission of Allah and when we call out their names. We do it with pride. If you want to see a nice debate to what istigatha is then watch a 5hour long debate on YouTube between Sunni and Wahabi. 

 

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On 08/07/2017 at 11:46 AM, maes said:

The problem is that you consider it an absolute power, an absolute knowledge, an absolute infallibility. These are all shirk akbar. There have been always a minority of Ghali Shias who believed in an absolute power, knowledge or infallibility.

In fact the mainstream Shias consider great power, knowledge, infallibility for Rasulullah and then the twelve imams after him, not an absolute power, knowledge or infallibility. There is a big difference.

No Shia says that there is no difference between Rasulullah and Allah ! except the ghali mushrik ones.

What you say is a shallow and superficial perspective about the beliefs of Shias. If someone has a deep and unbiased knowledge about the Shia literature, he knows that your viewpoint is unrealistic and a bit naive.

but you shall not, unless Allah wills, the Lord of all the Worlds. (81:29)

Only the will of Allah is absolute and all other wills even the will of the greatest prophet, Rasulullah, and his greatest successors, the twelve imams, are based on the will of Allah.

Even when you say there is a difference between Allah and the Prophet, you are putting Allah on a scale which again cannot be done! 

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