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In the Name of God بسم الله
sidnaq

Can anyone refute or explain this?

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11 minutes ago, islam25 said:

@Salsabeel and Dhulfikhar. 

Ambias and imams as and Awlias have extraordinary power from Allah. No body denies it. Even ordinary people have powers. But all these belongs  ororiginally of Allah's. If we consider humans or Awlias or imams real helper forgetting Allah. It constutes shrik. 

Everything is by permission of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. But the Imams, Prophets etc did not have full control meaning absolute free will to do so. If God gave them power, it is always because of his Wisdom and Will. And because Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì want to show guidence/wisdom out from this power that He gave to the Imams/Prophets/Messengers.

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2 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Everything is by permission of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. But the Imams, Prophets etc did not have full control meaning absolute free will to do so. If God gave them power, it is always because of his Wisdom and Will. And because Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì want to show guidence/wisdom out from this power that He gave to the Imams/Prophets/Messengers.

Thats what i said "be ithnillah".

Edited by Salsabeel

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On 6/25/2017 at 10:41 PM, sidnaq said:

WARNING, ONLY FOR KNOWLEDGABLE MEMBERS 

1. How we can interpret that the city mentioned in hadith is persian Isfahan?

2. there are only few jews present inside Iran currently/

3. the following is the hadith that mentions the fews:

Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said:

The Dajjal would be followed by seventy thousand Jews of Isfahan wearing Persian shawls.

حَدَّثَنَا مَنْصُورُ بْنُ أَبِي مُزَاحِمٍ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ حَمْزَةَ، عَنِ الأَوْزَاعِيِّ، عَنْ إِسْحَاقَ، بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَنْ عَمِّهِ، أَنَسِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ يَتْبَعُ الدَّجَّالَ مِنْ يَهُودِ أَصْبَهَانَ سَبْعُونَ أَلْفًا عَلَيْهِمُ الطَّيَالِسَةُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2944

In-book reference : Book 54, Hadith 155

The hadith seems to be a daef .although i do not have its grading from the link given belwo:

http://sunnah.com/muslim/54/155

4. the following hadith from praises the people  of Itan/persia:

Narrated Abu Hurairah:
"Some people among the Companions of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Who are these people whom Allah mentioned, that if we turn away they would replace us, then they would not be like us?'" He said: "And Salman was beside the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), so the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) patted Salman's thigh and said: 'This one and his companions, and by the One in Whose Hand is my soul! If faith were suspended from Pleiades, then it would be reached by men from Persia.'"
 
حَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ حُجْرٍ، أَنْبَأَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ نَجِيحٍ، عَنِ الْعَلاَءِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّهُ قَالَ قَالَ نَاسٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ مَنْ هَؤُلاَءِ الَّذِينَ ذَكَرَ اللَّهُ إِنْ تَوَلَّيْنَا اسْتُبْدِلُوا بِنَا ثُمَّ لَمْ يَكُونُوا أَمْثَالَنَا قَالَ وَكَانَ سَلْمَانُ بِجَنْبِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ فَضَرَبَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَخِذَ سَلْمَانَ قَالَ ‏ "‏ هَذَا وَأَصْحَابُهُ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَوْ كَانَ الإِيمَانُ مَنُوطًا بِالثُّرَيَّا لَتَنَاوَلَهُ رِجَالٌ مِنْ فَارِسَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى وَعَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ نَجِيحٍ هُوَ وَالِدُ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْمَدِينِيِّ وَقَدْ رَوَى عَلِيُّ بْنُ حُجْرٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ الْكَثِيرَ ‏.‏ وَحَدَّثَنَا عَلِيٌّ بِهَذَا الْحَدِيثِ عَنْ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ ‏.‏
Grade Hasan (Darussalam)  
English reference  : Vol. 5, Book 44, Hadith 3261
Arabic reference  : Book 47, Hadith 3570

http://sunnah.com/urn/642960

Edited by skyweb1987

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1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

Imam can control the universe, can distribute the rizq, can give life, can give death, can bring back the setting sun, can shaqq the moon etc. By the ithn of Allah. 

Do you have any objection in that?

Studies of Hadith and Muhaditheen (people who say ahadith)- by hashim maroof alhusayni page 197

دراسات في الحديث والمحدثين- هاشم معروف الحسيني  ص 197

وجاء عن ابن مسكان ان حجر بن زائدة وعامر بن جداعة الازدي دخلا على الإمام الصادق ( ع ) فقالا له جعلنا الله فداك : ان المفضل بن عمر يقول : انكم تقدرون أرزاق العباد ، فقال : والله ما يقدر أرزاق العباد وأرزاقنا إلا الله ، ولقد احتجت إلى طعام لعيالي فضاق صدري وأبلغت إلى الفكر في ذلك ، حتى أحرزت قوتهم فعندها طابت نفسي ، لعنه الله وبرئ منه ، قالا افنلعنه ونبرأ منه قال نعم

It came about ibn Maskan that Hajr ibn Za'ida and Amr bin Jad'a Alazadi Entered into Imam Al Sadiq (a.s.) and both said, "Allah make us your Fidak, that Mufadil bn Omar says 'You can distribute the rizq of people', So he said (Imam Al Sadiq a.s.): 'By Allah no one can distribute the rizq of people and us except for Allah, and I needed food for my family and my chest was tightened, and I thought about it, until their power was regained, then my nafs relaxed. Allah curse him and is acquitted from him'. So they said," Do we curse him and acquit out selves from him? (asking the imam) 'Yes' (He replied).  

1 hour ago, Dhulfikar said:

Which Qur'an verses contradict the hadith and how the hadith contradict the Qur'an?

Agein, what do you understand by Manifesting? So for example you are saying God can't create a human being that represent His mercy in Earth, it would be shirk?

Any hadith that contradicts the Quran. So far no one that I remember brought me hadith with all those "special abilities". It's all Insha'i (كلام انشائي) made up talk, no sources.

One person claimed that the names of Allah manifests into humans, shirk.

1 hour ago, islam25 said:

If Allah wills even ordinary person can control. One of our misunderstanding is we ascribe powers to individuals. But in reality it is Allah's. Even according to  quran one of servant of Hazrat suliman brought throne  of Bilqees from far different city in a fraction of second. How? 

(كلام افتراضي) What you said is theoretical, and holds no water. I need sources, proofs.. I can fly by the will of Allah a.w. You see? hypothetical, presumptive, speculative, supposive, conjecture, scenarios do not count as proof. Even worse, you shouldn't even bring them up since the counter argument have proof from Quran and ahadith.

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Any hadith that contradicts the Quran. So far no one that I remember brought me hadith with all those "special abilities". It's all Insha'i (كلام انشائي) made up talk, no sources.

This hadith https://sunnah.com/qudsi40/25, show me how does it contradict Qur'an?

Quote

One person claimed that the names of Allah manifests into humans, shirk.

Two things. For example; A person who is a merciful, this mercy is nothing but God given Mercy, that is what we say by manifested God mercy. Another example is God Guidance is manifested trough Prophets, Messengers, Imams, Qu'ran etc. Or God Perfection is manifested trough His creations. I see a perfect Flower, thus surely it's creator is Perfect. This can be also reflected on this Qur'an verse:

Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay. Quran 32:7

The shirk would be is that if we believe the human being can be "The Merciful", sharing absolute ability with God. I believe this is what you are referring as shirk.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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30 minutes ago, First Responder said:

انكم تقدرون أرزاق العباد

What is the translation of word "taqderoona"? Are you arabic speaker?

The root word "qadr" has been used in Quran as:

Surah Al-Qamar, Verse 49:

إِنَّا كُلَّ شَيْءٍ خَلَقْنَاهُ بِقَدَرٍ

Surely We have created everything according to a measure.

(English - Shakir)

Edited by Salsabeel

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7 hours ago, islam25 said:

@313 Seeker.

Who to you that ,oor how come you reached to conclusion that Shia worship other than Allah. Just wake up. 

not sure what you are trying to say as the English isn't too great here, but it seems that to you praying to Imams is not shirq and doesn't contradict verses in the quran and the suna of the prophet. Or saying that the imams control everything. i agree with anybody who says that is shirq. Nobody other than Allah is partner as a destiny of my prayers, and i gave full credit of all knowledge and control to Allah alone. And nobody other than Allah manages all creations! Allah has no partners / shuraka.

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because of these practices that so many shias do and endorse, i hesitate and feel shame when referring to myself as shia in sunni countries. As most all sunnis are aware of this, and i feel that i always need to explain "i am shia, but i don't self flagellate or cut my babies foreheads, and i don't pray to others than Allah" Most non-shias think that all shias do this, much like many if not most non-muslims think that all muslims are terrorists! Being referred to as muslim is not much better these days!

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4 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

because of these practices that so many shias do and endorse, i hesitate and feel shame when referring to myself as shia in sunni countries. As most all sunnis are aware of this, and i feel that i always need to explain "i am shia, but i don't self flagellate or cut my babies foreheads, and i don't pray to others than Allah" Most non-shias think that all shias do this, much like many if not most non-muslims think that all muslims are terrorists! Being referred to as muslim is not much better these days!

Most of it is out of Jahiliyyah. The core belief of Shiasm does not hold any shirk belief, but then the problem is how some of its followers out of their ignorance mix it with shirk.

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Just now, Dhulfikar said:

Most of it is out of Jahiliyyah. The core belief of Shiasm does not hold any shirk belief, but then the problem is how some of its followers out of their ignorance mix it with shirk.

after reading 7 years of shia hadith books i can confidently say that nothing shirqish exists in any of them. Whatever people come up with completely contradicts their own books, including the quran, and they somehow magically manage to find this weak narration that supports their claims. And it even happened that the narration is graded strong. But literally without exaggeration 99.99999% of all shia narrations have zero traces of shirq according to any standards. 

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14 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

after reading 7 years of shia hadith books i can confidently say that nothing shirqish exists in any of them. Whatever people come up with completely contradicts their own books, including the quran, and they somehow magically manage to find this weak narration that supports their claims. And it even happened that the narration is graded strong. But literally without exaggeration 99.99999% of all shia narrations have zero traces of shirq according to any standards. 

Exactly, among them likes to use the weak hadiths that's supports what their forefathers teached them. When I started to learn more about my beliefs, unfortunate I observed that some of my taught belief in young age have been found from weak hadiths.

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1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

What is the translation of word "taqderoona"? Are you arabic speaker?

The root word "qadr" has been used in Quran as:

Surah Al-Qamar, Verse 49:

إِنَّا كُلَّ شَيْءٍ خَلَقْنَاهُ بِقَدَرٍ

Surely We have created everything according to a measure.

(English - Shakir)

You don't get it *shakes head*...If someone said Ahlul bayt MEASURE rizq are cursed by Imam Sadiq a.s. himself, what do you think about those who say they DISTRIBUTE rizq which is WORSE?

1 hour ago, Dhulfikar said:

This hadith https://sunnah.com/qudsi40/25, show me how does it contradict Qur'an?

Two things. For example; A person who is a merciful, this mercy is nothing but God given Mercy, that is what we say by manifested God mercy. Another example is God Guidance is manifested trough Prophets, Messengers, Imams, Qu'ran etc. Or God Perfection is manifested trough His creations. I see a perfect Flower, thus surely it's creator is Perfect. This can be also reflected on this Qur'an verse:

Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay. Quran 32:7

The shirk would be is that if we believe the human being can be "The Merciful", sharing absolute ability with God. I believe this is what you are referring as shirk.

Sunni ahadith are not hujja on me.

Second of all Someone wrote that the NAMES of Allah (You are adding attributes) can manifest through people. Shirk. Actually let me ask you a question...do prophets, especially Wali Al Azm prophets (Moses a.s., Jesus a.s....) manifest the names and attributes of God perfection like you stated? (Yes) or (No)? 

 

 

Edited by First Responder

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Sunni ahadith are not hujja on me.

You can find same authentic shia hadith.

Quote

Second of all Someone wrote that the NAMES of Allah (You are adding attributes) can manifest through people. Shirk. Actually let me ask you a question...do prophets, especially Wali Al Azm prophets (Moses a.s., Jesus a.s....) manifest the names and attributes of God perfection like you stated? (Yes) or (No)? 

 

I clearly said what is considered as shirk. God shower's mercy, power, kindness, guidance etc to mankind trough Prophets, Messengers and Imams and other of his communications, we say It is Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì who give mercy, power, kindness, guidance to people throught his Communications.

Look at this verse: 

And We have sent you (O Muhammad ) not but as a mercy for the Alameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists)” [al-Anbiya’ 21:107]

What Mercy? God Mercy is manifested trough Prophet Muhammad (saws) to the Mankind, Jinns and all that exist).

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29 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

You can find same authentic shia hadith.

 

Yes I know the hadith and it does not mean the shirky translation that you are claiming and I am talking to you about. I don't need to get into the hadith when the Quran has already solved the problem.

Quote

I clearly said what is considered as shirk. God shower's mercy, power, kindness, guidance etc to mankind trough Prophets, Messengers and Imams and other of his communications, we say It is Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì who give mercy, power, kindness, guidance to people throught his Communications.

On top of the NAMES of Allah, you said the attributes can manifest through people. I already asked you this and you did not answer...do prophets, especially Wali Al Azm prophets (Moses a.s., Jesus a.s....) manifest the names and attributes of God perfection like you stated? (Yes) or (No)? 
 

Quote

 

Look at this verse: 

And We have sent you (O Muhammad ) not but as a mercy for the Alameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists)” [al-Anbiya’ 21:107]

What Mercy? God Mercy is manifested trough Prophet Muhammad (saws) to the Mankind, Jinns and all that exist).

 

Your translation has nothing to do with what the verse says. Oh p.s. The English transaltion your brought me is not the Quran, the Quran is Arabic and this is what it says,

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِّلْعَالَمِينَ

صدق الله العلي العظيم

it says mercy and not "God Mercy is manifested trough Prophet Muhammad (saws) to the Mankind, Jinns and all that exist)."

 

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Lol. That is not my translation of the verse. What I stated is truth. Mercy that is referred in that verse IS from Allah. Read surat an nisa verse 79:

Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allah, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself. And We have sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a Messenger to mankind, and Allah is Sufficient as a Witness.

For rest of your post I have already answered it and i don't repeat myself. 

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2 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

Lol. That is not my translation of the verse. What I stated is truth. Mercy that is referred in that verse IS from Allah. Read surat an nisa verse 79:

Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allah, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself. And We have sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a Messenger to mankind, and Allah is Sufficient as a Witness.

What does that have to do with what you said earlier and now? Again you are not bringing me Quranic verses you are bringing me Translation from A person you don't even name..

Quote

For rest of your post I have already answered it and i don't repeat myself. 

Actually I am the one who doesn't like to repeat himself and I wanted to answer you already but decided to repeat my question which remains un-answered. You could have told me you wish to not answer but that is okay, I can strongly and firmly confirm that you DO believe in the names/attributes of Allah subhanah wa ta3ala manifesting into people. I believe it is time to end this. Ponder upon this verse.

ألاعراف 180

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

وَلِلَّـهِ الْأَسْمَاءُ الْحُسْنَىٰ فَادْعُوهُ بِهَا ۖ وَذَرُوا الَّذِينَ يُلْحِدُونَ فِي أَسْمَائِهِ ۚ سَيُجْزَوْنَ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ

صدق الله العلي العظيم

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7 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Why are you people labelling the poster of shirk? 

What do we meant by Waliullah or Imam? Their designation & their closeness to Allah is the reason. 

Can you deny the statement that angels cause death? Is this statement shirk? 

Our basic belief is that it is Allah who causes life & death, it is He who give sustenance to all. 

Why it is so easy for you to start chanting shirk shirk?

Brother question is not statement. Question is what is in heart. Giving independence to Angle of death makes problem. It is Allah made Angle to cause death. Angle by himself can do nothing. 

Who is the owner mobile that is in your hand. 

It is Allah in reality. If one forget Allah and belive himself to be owner that means his iman is weak. 

It is here were our imams of Ahlebayat as were perfect thiey had fulacknowledgement that it is Allah who owner. 

Edited by islam25

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6 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

not sure what you are trying to say as the English isn't too great here, but it seems that to you praying to Imams is not shirq and doesn't contradict verses in the quran and the suna of the prophet. Or saying that the imams control everything. i agree with anybody who says that is shirq. Nobody other than Allah is partner as a destiny of my prayers, and i gave full credit of all knowledge and control to Allah alone. And nobody other than Allah manages all creations! Allah has no partners / shuraka.

Mr.313 seeker. 

No one worship imams. Yes believing imams having extraordinary powers doesn't compromise Tawheed. A simple ordinary human have vast abilities, power and knowledge. Does this compromise Tawheed. 

Everything is of Allah even the power or Ability that humans have is of Allah. 

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Just now, islam25 said:

Mr.313 seeker. 

No one worship imams. Yes believing imams having extraordinary powers doesn't compromise Tawheed. A simple ordinary human have vast abilities, power and knowledge. Does this compromise Tawheed. 

Everything is of Allah even the power or Ability that humans have is of Allah. 

 

- yes for you praying to others than Allah isn't infringing on Tawheed Mr. Islam.

- or claiming that Imams have taken charge of everything isn't either. 

 

in the quran there are people described to do shirq claiming it is for the sake of their God. So it is possible to think there is only on God, and still worship other gods without officially doing so:

 

و يعبدون من دون الله ما لا يضرهم و لا ينفعهم و يقولون هؤلاء شفعاؤنا عند الله قل أتنبئون الله بما لا يعلم في السماوات و لا في الأرض سبحانه و تعالى عما يشركون

 

And they worship other than Allah that which neither harms them nor benefits them, and they say, "These are our intercessors (bringers of shifa'a) with Allah " Say, "Do you inform Allah of something He does not know in the heavens or on the earth?" Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him 10:18

 

The Quran and sunnah is clear about praying only to Allah and Allah has no partners in His heavens and earth.

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35 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr.313 seeker. 

No one worship imams. Yes believing imams having extraordinary powers doesn't compromise Tawheed. A simple ordinary human have vast abilities, power and knowledge. Does this compromise Tawheed. 

Everything is of Allah even the power or Ability that humans have is of Allah. 

Brother, there is a difference between worshiping Imams and doing ghuloo. Sunnis on the other hand.....let's not even open that file.

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