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In the Name of God بسم الله
sidnaq

Can anyone refute or explain this?

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11 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

:) Zakat can be the source of someone's rizq. This doesn't make Imam Ali "Raziq". Lets see another example, since you're more focusing on rizq:

Surah Al-Insan, Verse 9:

إِنَّمَا نُطْعِمُكُمْ لِوَجْهِ اللَّهِ لَا نُرِيدُ مِنكُمْ جَزَاءً وَلَا شُكُورًا

We only feed you for Allah's sake; we desire from you neither reward nor thanks:

(English - Shakir)

Be it zakat or Rizq everything is of Allah .

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11 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Be it zakat or Rizq everything is of Allah .

Allah gives zakat?

Was that Allah who fed the yateem, miskeen & aseer as mentioned in the 9th verse of Sura-e-Insaan?

Edited by Salsabeel

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53 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Its not any hadith, it can be found in Shi'a and Sunni as authentic hadith. 

Some of what you listed are ghulat beliefs or misunderstand statements. 

What do you understand by "manifesting" throught them?

Again, you act as if you heard it directly from the person who said it, totally bypassing two important points. (1) You seem to dodge the golden rule for shia when it comes to ahadith. You compare the hadith to the Quran and if it agrees, take it if not, throw it at the wall...Ahlul bayt a.s. did not say compare the sahih or weak hadith, they said hadith, which means any hadith regardless how many "scholars" say it's sahih, you HAVE to compare it to the Quran. Which in this case the hadith is useless. (2) I can confidently say without even bringing any sources that, to say names of Allah manifest into humans is shirk.

26 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

:) Zakat can be the source of someone's rizq. This doesn't make Imam Ali "Raziq". Lets see another example, since you're more focusing on rizq:

Surah Al-Insan, Verse 9:

إِنَّمَا نُطْعِمُكُمْ لِوَجْهِ اللَّهِ لَا نُرِيدُ مِنكُمْ جَزَاءً وَلَا شُكُورًا

We only feed you for Allah's sake; we desire from you neither reward nor thanks:

(English - Shakir)

 

24 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Have you seen the quote, to whom i was saying this? And what i was questioning? 

Yes I did, and this is the same verse that ghulat and mughaleen use in their argument of "Ahlul bayt can control the universe as well as give rizq to people". "If Angels do it by the will of Allah, so do the imams" <--- argument

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36 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

:) Zakat can be the source of someone's rizq. This doesn't make Imam Ali "Raziq". Lets see another example, since you're more focusing on rizq:

Surah Al-Insan, Verse 9:

إِنَّمَا نُطْعِمُكُمْ لِوَجْهِ اللَّهِ لَا نُرِيدُ مِنكُمْ جَزَاءً وَلَا شُكُورًا

We only feed you for Allah's sake; we desire from you neither reward nor thanks:

(English - Shakir)

For some reason it did not show in my previous post so I will repeat it...Zakat and Rizq are different, if you insist that ahlul bayt give rizk, I can gladly show you the opposite...If you are prepared mentally, because it is a hadith very hard to swallow...

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2 minutes ago, First Responder said:

Yes I did, and this is the same verse that ghulat and mughaleen use in their argument of "Ahlul bayt can control the universe as well as give rizq to people". "If Angels do it by the will of Allah, so do the imams" <--- argument

Imam can control the universe, can distribute the rizq, can give life, can give death, can bring back the setting sun, can shaqq the moon etc. By the ithn of Allah. 

Do you have any objection in that?

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Again, you act as if you heard it directly from the person who said it, totally bypassing two important points. (1) You seem to dodge the golden rule for shia when it comes to ahadith. You compare the hadith to the Quran and if it agrees, take it if not, throw it at the wall...Ahlul bayt a.s. did not say compare the sahih or weak hadith, they said hadith, which means any hadith regardless how many "scholars" say it's sahih, you HAVE to compare it to the Quran. Which in this case the hadith is useless. (2) I can confidently say without even bringing any sources that, to say names of Allah manifest into humans is shirk.

 

Which Qur'an verses contradict the hadith and how the hadith contradict the Qur'an?

Quote

I can confidently say without even bringing any sources that, to say names of Allah manifest into humans is shirk

Agein, what do you understand by Manifesting? So for example you are saying God can't create a human being that represent His mercy in Earth, it would be shirk?

Edited by Dhulfikar

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2 minutes ago, First Responder said:

 

Again, you act as if you heard it directly from the person who said it, totally bypassing two important points. (1) You seem to dodge the golden rule for shia when it comes to ahadith. You compare the hadith to the Quran and if it agrees, take it if not, throw it at the wall...Ahlul bayt a.s. did not say compare the sahih or weak hadith, they said hadith, which means any hadith regardless how many "scholars" say it's sahih, you HAVE to compare it to the Quran. Which in this case the hadith is useless. (2) I can confidently say without even bringing any sources that, to say names of Allah manifest into humans is shirk.

 

Yes I did, and this is the same verse that ghulat and mughaleen use in their argument of "Ahlul bayt can control the universe as well as give rizq to people". "If Angels do it by the will of Allah, so do the imams" <--- argument

If Allah wills even ordinary person can control. One of our misunderstanding is we ascribe powers to individuals. But in reality it is Allah's. Even according to  quran one of servant of Hazrat suliman brought throne  of Bilqees from far different city in a fraction of second. How? 

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2 minutes ago, First Responder said:

Zakat and Rizq are different, if you insist that ahlul bayt give rizk, I can gladly show you the opposite...If you are prepared mentally, because it is a hadith very hard to swallow...

:) have i said zakat is rizq? 

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3 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Imam can control the universe, can distribute the rizq, can give life, can give death, can bring back the setting sun, can shaqq the moon etc. By the ithn of Allah. 

Do you have any objection in that?

No one have objection. 

I too can give rizq and money and help to others. So what? But I can'tattain the level of Proximity to Allah that imam has. 

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3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

No one have objection. 

I too can give rizq and money and help to others. So what? But I can'tattain the level of Proximity to Allah that imam has. 

Why you're picking up my comments where i am not addressing you?

You can only give what you have. Can you cause the shaqqal qamar? Can you claim that malak has been descended upon you? Can you give life to dead? Can you bring back the sun which is about to set?

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3 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Can you show us this sunnah of Allah?

Where Allah is authorizing any common person to control anything.

I told you servant hazrat suliman broght throne from different city in fraction of quran. How? 

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1 minute ago, Salsabeel said:

Why you're picking up my comments where i am not addressing you?

You can only give what you have. Can you cause the shaqqal qamar? Can you claim that malak has been descended upon you? Can you give life to dead? Can you bring back the sun which is about to set?

Yes. Exactly I can only give what Allah gave me. This is universal. Allah has described human as faqeer  (dependent or nothingness ) .

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Just now, islam25 said:

I told you servant hazrat suliman broght throne from different city in fraction of quran. How? 

What was with him? ilmun minal kitab.

Who taught him that ilm? He was not an ordinary person. Same is the matter of Khidr?

Surah Al-Kahf, Verse 65:

فَوَجَدَا عَبْدًا مِّنْ عِبَادِنَا آتَيْنَاهُ رَحْمَةً مِّنْ عِندِنَا وَعَلَّمْنَاهُ مِن لَّدُنَّا عِلْمًا

 

Then they found one from among Our servants whom We had granted mercy from Us and whom We had taught knowledge from Ourselves.

(English - Shakir)

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Imam can control the universe, can distribute the rizq, can give life, can give death, can bring back the setting sun, can shaqq the moon etc. By the ithn of Allah. 

Good post to read about this:

and this too:

 

Edited by Dhulfikar

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@Salsabeel and Dhulfikhar. 

Ambias and imams as and Awlias have extraordinary power from Allah. No body denies it. Even ordinary people have powers. But all these belongs  ororiginally of Allah's. If we consider humans or Awlias or imams real helper forgetting Allah. It constutes shrik. 

Edited by islam25

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1 minute ago, islam25 said:

If we consider humans or Awlias or imams real helper forgetting Allah. It constutes shrik. 

Why are you people labelling the poster of shirk? 

What do we meant by Waliullah or Imam? Their designation & their closeness to Allah is the reason. 

Can you deny the statement that angels cause death? Is this statement shirk? 

Our basic belief is that it is Allah who causes life & death, it is He who give sustenance to all. 

Why it is so easy for you to start chanting shirk shirk?

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