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modaoudi

New moon for eid al fitr

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Assalamo alaikom and eid mubarak for those celebrating,

After the iftar I got in a heated discussion about the eid and the moon. So I'm pretty straightforward, I do not follow any school or marja when it comes to this issue. I follow the moon in my place only (belgium).

I visited three official (astronomical, meteorological) sites that all tell me that the moon cycle ended the 24th june and the new cycle starts the 25th (1% visible) and thus it implicates that the eid is the 25th.

Now, because it's only 1% visible some of my friends insisted that we should only declare eid when we can see it with the naked eye. But why go to the struggle if the highly-accurate machine can do it for me?

I know it's kinda stupid to argue over one extra day of fasting, but it bugged my quite a bit so I really want to know?

Thanks for your attention

Wassalam

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I just heard an announcement from Ahl Al Bayt Islamic Mission (aimislam.org). According to this organization, which is a very reputable organization where I live, tommorow, Sunday June 25 is Eid for all those who do Taqleed to Sayyid Sistani(ha) and Imam Ali Khameni(ha) who live in North and South America based on the sighting of the moon with the naked eye in Brazil a few minutes ago.

http://www.aimislam.com/eid-al-fitr-announcement-2017/

Edited by Abu Hadi

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13 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

I just heard an announcement from Ahl Al Bayt Islamic Mission (aimislam.org). According to this organization, which is a very reputable organization where I live, tommorow, Sunday June 25 is Eid for all those who do Taqleed to Sayyid Sistani(ha) and Imam Ali Khameni(ha) who live in North and South America based on the sighting of the moon with the naked eye in Brazil a few minutes ago.

http://www.aimislam.com/eid-al-fitr-announcement-2017/

The moon was seen in Brazil, that's irrelevant for us here in the north. We northerners have to see it tonight or else eid is on monday.

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Eid depends on whether you believe that the moon should be sighted regionally, or in a place that shares a part of the night with you. So people will be breaking their fast Sunday or Monday based on that criteria.

As for why we physically sight the moon, perhaps one of the functions of physically sighting the moon is to connect us with Allah's ayat.

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1 hour ago, modaoudi said:

Thanks for all the info.

But with all respect brothers I would like a response on the question if it's possible.

Thanks for your attention

Wassalam

Salam 

Why do we make turbas when we have beautiful clean carpets to pray on? Because our prophet prayed on turba (earth). We do as he did. I appreciate technology can give us an advantage, but there is 7ikma in following the prophet's way of doing things. Our sunnah is to follow his lifestyle. The closer you come to it, the better :) It might appear to be a pedantic detail, but God appreciates those who are conscientious in their 3ibada. 

Edited by yusur317

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I don't get how there can be two eids though? Surely its one horizon and it's one moon. Based on a few moonsighting websites the new moon has been born and it has a 1% visibility. Knowing this how can I fast tomorrow here in the UK when I know the month of Shawwal has started?

Would this mean at the start of Ramadan we had two laylatul Qadr's on earth because Shia's started at different times using this logic?

Also why has Fadllalah's marja issued Eid to be tomorrow? Can I use my own logic and not follow Sistani or Khameni, I just feel this is so illogical.

Edited by Crimson

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3 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I just heard an announcement from Ahl Al Bayt Islamic Mission (aimislam.org). According to this organization, which is a very reputable organization where I live, tommorow, Sunday June 25 is Eid for all those who do Taqleed to Sayyid Sistani(ha) and Imam Ali Khameni(ha) who live in North and South America based on the sighting of the moon with the naked eye in Brazil a few minutes ago.

http://www.aimislam.com/eid-al-fitr-announcement-2017/

Except for Canada in the case of Sistani I believe (and I heard Khamenei as well), since the moon apparently isn't visible to the naked eye in Canada.

I must say, living in Canada, every year, this is a problem and it's extremely frustrating because several marjaas say different days. What does one do when they have no clue when they should celebrate eid? Different marjas differ, and within one family each individual may follow their own marjaa.

Is the only solution in this case to travel a distance to break one's fast and return? I don't even know. Apparently in this situation the only thing a lay-person can do is listen to the marjaa they abide by as the decision will rest on their marjaa's neck.

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This is something that really annoys me.

How local does a moon sighting need to be for you to consider it a valid sighting?  In the time of the prophet, unless someone in your village saw it and told you about it, or you saw it, you wouldn't celebrate Eid.  If we use that logic, then you must rely on a moon sighting by someone no more than a few miles away from you. 

If we say that the prophet didn't use a telescope, so we shouldn't use a telescope, then we shouldn't use a prayer timings app on our phone either.  Nor should we fly by plane for Hajj.  We should only use ships, ride camels, and walk.  And we shouldn't use the internet to check if someone in our country a few hundred miles away saw the new moon, because that kind of communication would be impossible in the time of the prophet.  

But if we're ok with using phones/internet to communicate moon sightings from across the country, why aren't we ok with communicating that information across two countries, or three?  Or from continent to continent?

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2 hours ago, Crimson said:

I don't get how there can be two eids though? Surely its one horizon and it's one moon. Based on a few moonsighting websites the new moon has been born and it has a 1% visibility. Knowing this how can I fast tomorrow here in the UK when I know the month of Shawwal has started?

Would this mean at the start of Ramadan we had two laylatul Qadr's on earth because Shia's started at different times using this logic?

Also why has Fadllalah's marja issued Eid to be tomorrow? Can I use my own logic and not follow Sistani or Khameni, I just feel this is so illogical.

 

1 hour ago, coldcow said:

This is something that really annoys me.

How local does a moon sighting need to be for you to consider it a valid sighting?  In the time of the prophet, unless someone in your village saw it and told you about it, or you saw it, you wouldn't celebrate Eid.  If we use that logic, then you must rely on a moon sighting by someone no more than a few miles away from you. 

If we say that the prophet didn't use a telescope, so we shouldn't use a telescope, then we shouldn't use a prayer timings app on our phone either.  Nor should we fly by plane for Hajj.  We should only use ships, ride camels, and walk.  And we shouldn't use the internet to check if someone in our country a few hundred miles away saw the new moon, because that kind of communication would be impossible in the time of the prophet.  

But if we're ok with using phones/internet to communicate moon sightings from across the country, why aren't we ok with communicating that information across two countries, or three?  Or from continent to continent?

Because our traditions say you must see the moon with the naked eye, not with computers. Telescopes/binoculars are fine since you are technically still using your eyes to see it. Only marja that differs from this is ayatollah fadlallah, where he says you can determine the moon sighting via computers and electronics.

The reason why maraji' differ on the day of eid is because some maraji' say you must see the moon in your region, and others say if the moon is visible in a country across the world from you but with the same timezone, you can follow that country.

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6 hours ago, Hassan- said:

 

Because our traditions say you must see the moon with the naked eye, not with computers. Telescopes/binoculars are fine since you are technically still using your eyes to see it. Only marja that differs from this is ayatollah fadlallah, where he says you can determine the moon sighting via computers and electronics.

The reason why maraji' differ on the day of eid is because some maraji' say you must see the moon in your region, and others say if the moon is visible in a country across the world from you but with the same timezone, you can follow that country.

So what if a country has a different time zone? How does that justify fasting another day when its one moon. Fasting a day KNOWING its eid does not seem very comforting specially since two members from my household are bit fasting today because they follow a different marja... Its pathetic.

Since Ayatollah fadallah is different from all other marjas in this regard would this mean he is wrong, surely someone had to be wrong?

Edited by Crimson

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50 minutes ago, Crimson said:

So what if a country has a different time zone? How does that justify fasting another day when its one moon. Fasting a day KNOWING its eid does not seem very comforting specially since two members from my household are bit fasting today because they follow a different marja... Its pathetic.

The only maraji' I know of that do this are Sayed al-khoei (ra) and Imam Khomeini (ra), and I don't know their reasoning behind it. They obviously have a reason for it, but I don't know. If the moon is sighted in Brazil for example, the people living all the way up in eastern Canada can follow the sighting of Brazil since we're in the same timezone.

50 minutes ago, Crimson said:

Since Ayatollah fadallah is different from all other marjas in this regard would this mean he is wrong, surely someone had to be wrong?

Yes someone has to be wrong and someone is right. Allah knows best.

Edited by Hassan-

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This whole timezone business doesn't make sense.  The continental United States has 4 time zones (more if you include Alaska and Hawaii).  If someone sees the moon in California, does that mean someone in Texas can't utilize that sighting because they're in different time zones but in the same country?  Even Texas spans two time zones.  Someone in central Texas wouldn't be able to rely on a moon sighting from El Paso, being only a few hundred miles apart, but someone in Canada could if they were in the same time zone?  Or what about countries adjacent to one another but in different timezones, where the moon sighting may have only been 50 miles away.

How many ayatollahs have scientific or technical backgrounds?  I feel like that may be a big reason why this is an issue.

And you don't need computers.  The entire lunar calendar was calculated well over a thousand years ago.  And obviously we are allowed to proceed to the next month without a sighting because if there is inclimate weather preventing you from looking for the moon you don't have to stay in the current month until you see a new moon.

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16 hours ago, coldcow said:

This is something that really annoys me.

How local does a moon sighting need to be for you to consider it a valid sighting?  In the time of the prophet, unless someone in your village saw it and told you about it, or you saw it, you wouldn't celebrate Eid.  If we use that logic, then you must rely on a moon sighting by someone no more than a few miles away from you. 

If we say that the prophet didn't use a telescope, so we shouldn't use a telescope, then we shouldn't use a prayer timings app on our phone either.  Nor should we fly by plane for Hajj.  We should only use ships, ride camels, and walk.  And we shouldn't use the internet to check if someone in our country a few hundred miles away saw the new moon, because that kind of communication would be impossible in the time of the prophet.  

But if we're ok with using phones/internet to communicate moon sightings from across the country, why aren't we ok with communicating that information across two countries, or three?  Or from continent to continent?

This sort of qiyas doesn't add up. I'm sorry.

Please read this: http://purifiedhousehold.com/why-crescent-must-be-sighted-despite-astronomers-news/

Edited by E.L King

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