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Why the fatwa on masturbation needs to change

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2 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

If you don't ejaculate, you won't die.

2 hours ago, kirtc said:

masturbation is wrong period.

2 hours ago, silasun said:

masturbation provides a temporary high followed by an empty crash.

1 hour ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Masturbating to everything is a very sad thing to do.

In the case of kaffarah for the one who masturbates whilst fasting, a mudhtarr is excused, if idhtirar was acceptable only in matters of life and death then this would not be the case.
Anyway, agreeing that masturbation is haram in general and that there is no idhtirar when it comes to sexual frustration, given how it is harmful psychologically and physiologically, the drive is extremely strong in teens, what is the solution once they reach a point that it is almost guaranteed that not only will they masturbate, but they will most certainly use pornography too?
Would you still say: don't do anything (in which case it is almost certain that they will anyway with the use of pornography, which will cause addiction; I am sure the teen will agree with all the harms that he won't die, or that it is just a temporary high; and that it is sad, the teen in question is not ignorant of the negative effects, rather - اذا قام الذكر عمي البصر)
... or go for the lesser of many haram?

Edited by Ozzy

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1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

what is the solution once they reach a point that it is almost guaranteed that not only will they 

Parents need to be more open with their children. Children need encouragement and support from their parents. The issue is that children are afraid of being judged and will never open up to their parents. You will find that most kids then resort to online forums including the OP. It is a well known fact that talking to someone once you have an addiction can help you fight it. 

We need to stop with this nonsense of shying away from discussing taboo topics such as 'porn/masturbation' in our homes. Once we educate our children and raise awareness, then we can prevent this addiction.

When I have a child in the future(inshallah), I plan to already talk about the issue of pornography/masturbation at an appropriate age to prevent such an addiction.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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13 hours ago, Guest trying to help said:

Not ejaculating for months makes your privates stop working. Like all muscles, if you don’t use it, you lose it. I had experience of this because I wanted to obey Islam but I realised I couldn’t continue because I needed to have kids one day.

Is there any scientific proof to this?

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8 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

When I have a child in the future(inshallah), I plan to already talk about the issue of pornography/masturbation at an appropriate age to prevent such an addiction.

Sure, but what exactly are you planning to say to them?

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On 6/25/2017 at 7:48 AM, Ozzy said:

Sure, but what exactly are you planning to say to them?

 

On 6/24/2017 at 11:32 PM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

We need to stop with this nonsense of shying away from discussing taboo topics such as 'porn/masturbation' in our homes.

On 6/24/2017 at 8:46 PM, IbnSina said:

Why dont you do like the rest of us and go bald instead?

lol, im bald :(

Bros, salam

I was at a village in south Lebanon few days ago. I was visiting cousins when I was told one of the little girls 16 was getting propositions and she wanted to get married soon. Now our infiltrated western minds would automatically go... NOOOO thats too young!.(btw the guy was 20) But I looked around... and almost everyone in the village was like that (married young). My uncle at 74 is a great grandfather, he also looks 40. The families are very tight and everyone is cheery. All 10000 of them. Yes they like to get alot of kids I think my uncle can form a small army with his "kids". But my point is.. getting married young is not wrong. If it doesn't work... divorce, Getting kids is up to God, not up to us.. Look at the alternative... .. 

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15 hours ago, Guest trying to help said:

Didn't you read my post? I said some men don't get wet dreams. If you do then good for you. For the rest of us it's life in pain everyday.

Ofcourse you do, tell me how long have you gone without masturbation? be honest. 

Empathy? Not one male member here does not know what you are talking about. I dont think there is a single member that has not been through this dilemma. you are twisting facts to suite your satisfaction to make masturbation ok.

The idea that if you dont masturbate your genital region will wilt is completely bogus. who said that?! Allah will not punish you for not masturbating! There is no science or logic to what you say. You want to do it go ahead.. but making this thread will not lessen the sin. It is a sin and harmful to you in every way.. that is why it is a sin. If it were good for you it would not be haram. 

You actually will have a higher chance of being impotent from masturbation, Science has proven that you will face erectile problems, premature ejaculation and even kill your sperm cell production count. 

Also it is pathetic.

Edited by kirtc

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Guest trying to help

@kirtc are you married or not? Can you truly honestly say you can go one whole year without masturbation? I think muslim guys who preach no masturbation at all are the ones who do it. They try but fail to live up to their own ideals. Or they are the ones who get wet dreams.

You made the audacious claim that all men get wet dreams. It's not true! Read this link to see many complaining they dont masturbate and dont get wet dreams https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/is-it-possible-to-never-have-wet-dreams.51182/ I went six months and didnt get any. All sexual functionality died.

Call me pathetic but at least I am honest.

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On 6/24/2017 at 9:07 PM, Guest trying to help said:

@IbnSina trust me bro I went gray with stress when I stopped masturbation completely! That didn't bother me but then functionality of my lower regions died because I was trying so hard to not masturbate. Then I decided I cant ruin my chances to have kids so I started again. It took some weeks for the lower regions to even start working again!

I don't know where to start. I don't have time to respond to everything, but you are using argument by limited (in this case, one case) case, which scientifically and even logically is a big falacy. 

There is lots of research on this. Given that you have normal reproductive physiology (which is the case for 99.9% of the brothers reading this thread), what will happen if you don't ejaculate is that your testes will produce less and less sperm, and this is reversible, i.e. when you are in a sexual relationship with (hopefully) your wife, your testes will resume sperm production at normal physiological levels. You may have a specific medical condition. If it is a diagnosed condition, then you should follow the advice of your doctor. But if you do, then realize that your advice on this is not applicable to 99.9 percent of the brothers reading this thread. 

That is the physiological side. The psychological and spiritual side are different issues. These have been talked about alot on the site, so no need to go over these again. 

Also, It seems like you have already made up your mind that masturbation is perfectly fine despite all the evidence to the contrary that has been posted. So not exactly sure of the reason you made this thread. Were you looking for lots of people to agree with you and back your position ? 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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16 hours ago, Guest trying to help said:

@kirtc are you married or not? Can you truly honestly say you can go one whole year without masturbation? I think muslim guys who preach no masturbation at all are the ones who do it. They try but fail to live up to their own ideals. Or they are the ones who get wet dreams.

You made the audacious claim that all men get wet dreams. It's not true! Read this link to see many complaining they dont masturbate and dont get wet dreams https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/is-it-possible-to-never-have-wet-dreams.51182/ I went six months and didnt get any. All sexual functionality died.

Call me pathetic but at least I am honest.

once you realise it is a sin and educate yourself of the actual harm it causes.. you will stop inshallah.

 

Edited by kirtc

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Guest d3v1l

The true question is, why is one asking to self-abuse as apposed to natural procreation. In today’s liberal age, there should be

no issue in getting a partner. The true problem is, human conditioning that stems from both cultural and religious education. The idea that

to procreate with someone outside of the religious fold is evil and could lead to problems. This child like conditioning of men from a young age

Leads to unequal growth of making the right decisions, thus leading to this dilemma. Why is that, we always a certain type of mind that comes online

And complains of this issue, whereas others of a different mind-set are in relationships. This isn’t segregated to theists, it is also prevalent in all other

Faiths to non-faiths. Thus, we establish it is primarily a conditioned behavioural issue, that needs to be addressed first. What are the underlining issues, that stop

An individual looking for one, is it family, friends, peer, upbringing, financial or religious or just delusional programming. “If I pray real hard one day I will find her/him.”

Any experienced and honest individual will tell you, this only works for a small percentage, the rest had to do what everyone else did. They did what they could according to their means

As well as exposure to the opposite gender. We find non-muslims, finding their partners, living life, without having to accumulate  large amounts? – They build a life. Yet muslims are still stuck and no scholar is addressing this Problem? Why?. We may hear bits here and there, but generally it is put aside. We generally hear, ohh, just, marry a good pious person, as if the human mind is conditioned to pick

Something they do not like. Fact is, both men and women will reject each other, and if they are forced to marry, eventually they will divorce, or stay for the sake of the children. We have heard this before right? The families themselves do this too? Why?. What purpose is there in a religion or belief in a God if, once we leave that mosque we revert to our own cultural or behavioural programming?.

Why are parents ashamed or too afraid to educate their growing up teens in what life is about, their hormonal changes, the likes and dislikes of the opposite gender, but one day, expect to tell their kids, ohh, it’s time for marriage, I know so and so?.

My advice is this. Look at your own life, size of family, financial means, friends, physique, intelligence, then figure out a solution that suits you. Sure, we know of folk, who had nothing but made it, but eventually after some analysis, we realise, there were certain conditions or behaviours, that allowed them to achieve their dreams. Although these folk may advertise the fact that they prayed real hard, did x,y,z, truth be told, they too in all honesty cannot give us the true reason, we all need some belief to feel acceptance from the higher power. You do not want to end up in your late 30’s – single, poor, looked down upon, and offered partners you have no attraction to on the bases that one is old now, just accept it as fate, it’s a test nonsense. Humans are too selfish and are constantly looking for what is the most advantageous to them. Instead of creating the excuse that one needs to self abuse, how about changing circumstances and getting a gf. If you can’t then, just like all problems, we deal with it. Whatever manner it maybe. What do you expect the responses to be?, sure buddy, let us call the scholars and change it for you. No one really cares, what they all care for is themselves, so figure out how to solve your own problems. Humans are competitive, once they make it, they will even use religion as a tool to put down others.

I can write a whole chapter here, just trust me, sort it out now or it gets worse. It is all about making the right decision and having courage in life.

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On 6/25/2017 at 0:13 PM, kirtc said:

You actually will have a higher chance of being impotent from masturbation, Science has proven that you will face erectile problems, premature ejaculation and even kill your sperm cell production count. 

This is a debatable point, at least. There are scientific reports that state the opposite - that ejaculating (whether solo or in company) is good for fertility, helps avoid premature ejaculating, helps you sleep, possibly helps reduce risk of prostate cancer. 

Obviously if your reasons for avoiding it are religious then these are not relevant considerations.

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27 minutes ago, Klanky said:

that ejaculating (whether solo or in company) is good for fertility, helps avoid premature ejaculating, helps you sleep, possibly helps reduce risk of prostate cancer. 

there is a difference between masturbation and ejaculation. im talking about masturbation.

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Unfortunately this is one of the tests for most Muslims in our time, specially if you are a male and live in a western country. With all the expectations and requirements needed such as degree, high paying job, hefty dowry, expensive weddings and engagements, etc... It all has been designed to create hardship. I personally believe this is an intended test for this generation and probably the next. As a 21 year old I suffer from this daily and will probably do so for the next 5+ years but there is definitely no way to justify masturbation unless your life is truly in risk (i.e someone has a gun to your head). You need to take all the precautionary steps to maximize your chances of not falling in masturbation such us lowering the gaze, etc.

In other words, suffer. Be miserable if you truly can't until you get married because at the end of the day it's better than suffering in the grave, day of judgement and hell. I accepted that a long time ago and I have 50/60 years max if I don't get married, not to long...

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On 2017-6-25 at 7:48 PM, Ozzy said:

Sure, but what exactly are you planning to say to them?

I will ask certain questions for my child to open up to me and not feel embarrassed at all. There is nothing for me to lose by having this talk.Talking about this issue will not take away your child's innocence, as it might help your child be more wise.

For example I will ask these questions:

" Son, have you come across any naked photos of a man or woman?"

" When I was young a lot people in my school talked about this kind of stuff. So let me know if anyone in your school has shown you a naked picture or talked about it."

" Son, in Islam Allah wants us to avoid looking at these naked photos as he wants us to respect women. Would you ever want someone to be looking at your mother or sister like that?"

" Pornography is videos where men are shown having sex with woman. These videos can be very disturbing and I really want you to avoid looking at these. If you ever come across it, don't be scared to tell me straight away. If you tell me, I can help you straight away."

These are just examples and I will have a very long educated discussion. There are so many countless articles which tell us the importance of opening up to your kid.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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12 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

These are just examples and I will have a very long educated discussion. There are so many countless articles which tell us the importance of opening up to your kid.

 

Q: " Son, in Islam Allah wants us to avoid looking at these naked photos as he wants us to respect women. Would you ever want someone to be looking at your mother or sister like that?"
A: Dad, our family members are different, we don't want to be seen by strangers, whereas these men and women do."

Edited by Ozzy

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On 6/24/2017 at 10:32 PM, Ozzy said:

In the case of kaffarah for the one who masturbates whilst fasting, a mudhtarr is excused, if idhtirar was acceptable only in matters of life and death then this would not be the case.
Anyway, agreeing that masturbation is haram in general and that there is no idhtirar when it comes to sexual frustration, given how it is harmful psychologically and physiologically, the drive is extremely strong in teens, what is the solution once they reach a point that it is almost guaranteed that not only will they masturbate, but they will most certainly use pornography too?
Would you still say: don't do anything (in which case it is almost certain that they will anyway with the use of pornography, which will cause addiction; I am sure the teen will agree with all the harms that he won't die, or that it is just a temporary high; and that it is sad, the teen in question is not ignorant of the negative effects, rather - اذا قام الذكر عمي البصر)
... or go for the lesser of many haram?

The solution was, is, and always will be early marriage, whether that is zawaj tul nikah(commonly referred to as permanent marriage) or mutah. For brothers and sisters in their teen years, instead of masturbating, they should be getting married. Allah(s.w.a) has created this desire in us in order for it to motivate us to bond with our spouse, not with our hand, an image  on a computer screen, etc, because we have no ability to bond with those other things and trying to do this will only increase our pain, frustration, and unhappiness, it won't make it better, it will only make it worse. That is why it is not a solution to anything. (masturbation). 

If you take even a surface examination of hadith from our Prophet(p.b.u.h) and Imams(a.s), this is as clear as the sun at noon time. 

Instead of destroying our souls by getting into the habit of disobeying Allah(s.w.a), we need to have an uprising against the ignorance and cultural B.S. that is sold to the youth as Islam. 

The specific cultural B.S. I am talking about (for the 1000th time now) is the belief that in order to get married you need a six figure salary, a college degree, a big house in the suburbs, and enough money to pay for a big, fancy wedding. You don't need any of this, and these things are not even mustahab(recommended). As long as our communities continue to accept, sell, and spread this B.S. we will continue to suffer what we are suffering now with these sins becoming common, divorce increasing, families breaking up, and eventually communities disappearing, not physically but spiritually. I wonder how long it will take before we wake up. Not sure ? 

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4 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

For brothers and sisters in their teen years, instead of masturbating, they should be getting married.

I agree with all your points. I do not say that masturbation is allowed, though I don't believe it is always a 'sin' as that is relative to circumstances, intentions etc.
The desire to masturbate develops much earlier, say after 10 years of age, and teens are legally not allowed to marry until 16. That is 6 years.
What do you advise during these 6 years?
What action would you implement to have teens marry by 16; considering education, finance, maturity, compatibility etc?

Edited by Ozzy

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11 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I agree with all your points. I do not say that masturbation is allowed, though I don't believe it is always a 'sin' as that is relative to circumstances, intentions etc.
The desire to masturbate develops much earlier, say after 10 years of age, and teens are legally not allowed to marry until 16. That is 6 years.
What do you advise during these 6 years?
What action would you implement to have teens marry by 16; considering education, finance, maturity, compatibility etc?

I am skeptical that it is very common for desire to masturbate is at 10, although I know it does happen once in a while. Most boys are not producing sperm at that age. For the vast majority, it starts between 14 and 16 for boys. Even if it starts at 14, then they marry at 16, they are still young enough for any bad habits they developed in those years to go away with time. Boys at that age are very flexible and resilient. 

The main problem is when people wait till their late 20's, early 30's or later. By the late 20's, any haram habits are deeply ingrained in a person over decades and thus extremely hard to get rid of. So even if a person gets married, there is a big chance that they will bring these haram habits into their married life and it will end up destroying the marriage (there are literally hundreds of threads on this site about this subject, plus the stuff that is not visible to the public, like the pms me and most other mods get on a regular basis regarding these exact issues). It is a huge problem that is basically being ignored, and me being one person, there isn't much I can do about it.We, as a community need to come up with a solution to facilitate early marriage and remove the stigma from mutah. This is something only the community can accomplish. 

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@Abu Hadi I agree with you that marriage should happen earlier.

However do you think that it is important for parents to open up with their children and educate them on these issues before the child gets addicted?

I know children need more support from their parents and don't need to be afraid to mention their struggles. I know most people who masturbate have never even been warned by their parents. Children feel parents will shame them or judge them for talking about it, which makes the child even more secretive etc

There are even articles which say that talking about these taboo issues can help prevent the child from becoming addicted.

 

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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I have three boys and I began a discussion with them, each individually, when they were 11 or 12. 

Gradually, as they got older (my oldest is 14), the discussion became more specific and detailed and I believe now, at least my oldest, understands all the issues, including what is halal and haram. And I have never let my kids be alone in a room with a closed door and there is an electronic device in the room. They know this rule so well they don't even attempt to do this anymore (after testing my resolve a few times in the past). 

I thought this was the norm(at least in the muslim community). Maybe I'm wrong. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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