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In the Name of God بسم الله
Guest trying to help

Why the fatwa on masturbation needs to change

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Guest trying to help

Read my final paragraph to see why I think the law needs to change for this time and place. Please discuss this important subject and not disapprove it.

I am posting anonymously because this topic is far too controversial for me to use my real name. I saw that topic posted by the brother here and felt that enough is enough http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235050452-sexual-frustration-issue/

Islam says no to masturbation and we can give many reasons why the stance of Islam is sensible. However I think the ruling needs to change for this time and place. During the early days of Islam it was easy to get married. During those days you didn’t have porn all over the place like billboards, TV and walking down the street. It was easier to keep desires lower.

Today you have boys who have to study and work until their late 20s while lowering their gaze completely, not having bad thoughts, not masturbating, not having any romantic relationships at all. Mutah is out of the question too.

Do you know how hard it is for a young man to keep looking away every 5 seconds when walking down the street? It’s harder than anything. Do you know what it feels like when you need to ejaculate but can’t? If you don’t then you must realise it’s like wanting to go to the toilet but being told not to ever! If you get wet dreams then good for you, but many boys never do and it stays in.

These boys are not living the life of Arabs in 7th century Arabia who could easily get married. It isn’t surprising masturbation was haram because of ease of marriage.

In the west and modern world so many fatwas are changed because of context. E.g. interest laws, work laws, finance laws, working for government, so many things are haram but become halal because we live here. However the alims will never even question the law of masturbation.

I say the law of masturbation needs to change. Boys suffer in education, they get moody and depressed, they suffer extreme hardship. Not ejaculating for months makes your privates stop working. Like all muscles, if you don’t use it, you lose it. I had experience of this because I wanted to obey Islam but I realised I couldn’t continue because I needed to have kids one day.

The law of masturbation in the west for boys who can’t marry for years needs to change because it breaks other laws of Islam. If it means the boys will be rude and angry, will fail exams, will get depression, will lose functionality in private parts, then all these things are unislamic. In this case one rule of Islam needs to be overlooked because more important rules override it.

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9 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

 @DigitalUmmah Thoughts?

You know my thoughts bro - guys need to work out, dress well, make themselves interesting and able to hold a conversation, most important learn how to be discrete....then find a decent non virgin, independent sister and do mutah. Thats what its there for. 

Mutah was made halal for us to prevent this exact situation. Whos fault is it, if a guy is a scruffy socially awkward nerd who no girl wants? Allahs? Girls? Or the guy himself?

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2 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

You know my thoughts bro - guys need to work out, dress well, make themselves interesting and able to hold a conversation, most important learn how to be discrete....then find a decent non virgin, independent sister and do mutah. Thats what its there for. 

Mutah was made halal for us to prevent this exact situation. Whos fault is it, if a guy is a scruffy socially awkward nerd who no girl wants? Allahs? Girls? Or the guy himself?

I would say that it is the guy's fault.  Otherwise, I don't understand why people overthink Mutah; The mahr/dowry isn't always money like some people think

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Now you are second guessing Allah(s.w.a). You think Allah(s.w.a) didn't realize that there would be a time, like you mentioned ?

While it is true that there are more things to distract us, as there were in the 7th century, there are also more resources at our disposal than those in the 7th century could ever imagine.

Also, the point about staying in forced celibacy till your late 20's / early 30's has nothing to do with Islam, it is a cultural thing. If you choose to follow culture and disregard what the religion says, then you get the consequences for that. Islam says to get married, and get married as early as possible. Islam also gives many options for marriage, who you can marry as well as conditions for the contract (permanent or temporary). Islam also sets a very reasonable conditions for support (financial), the wedding ceremony, and encourages couples to live a humble and simple life. Many cultural communities encourage the opposite of this and call it Islam, but we have access to lots and lots of information at our fingertips that those in the 7th century didn't have access to. So if we remain ignorant and follow culture instead of Islam, then that is a choice that we make and again, we have to accept the consequences for that choice. 

And if you think it is difficult or impossible to challenge your parents on this issue of marriage, do you think it was easy for those muslims of the 7th century to challenge their parents ? Many were expelled from their cities and tribes because they stood for what they believed in ? But they did it anyway, and they eventually succeeded. Challenging your parents on certain issues is not the same as being disrespectful to your parents (i.e. going against the religion), although there are many parent who conflate the two things and are wrong in doing this.

The only difference between now and the 7th century is that we have more tools at our disposal than previous generations. The Internet, billboards, t.v., and modern technologies are only tools, they are not good or bad in themselves but are given to us by Allah(s.w.a) to use to benefit us. The fact that there are many people and groups that use them in the wrong way and use them to promote corruption doesn't change the basic reality, they will be responsible for their deeds and we will be responsible for ours. The presence or absence of tools doesn't change Haqq and Batil, Halal and Haram, or human nature. These were fixed with Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and won't change till the Day of Judgement, not matter what our opinion of these are.

And btw, generation after generation of muslim/a will continue to suffer from these culturally imposed prison sentences UNTIL young brothers and sisters start challenging their parents (in a respectful way) regarding these issues. Nothing will change until that happens.

Edited by Abu Hadi

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2 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I would say that it is the guy's fault.  Otherwise, I don't understand why people overthink Mutah; The mahr/dowry isn't always money like some people think

Theres (understandably) a huge stigma associated with it because of horny idiots taking advantage if gullible virgin girls living in their dads houses.

But if two sane, independent, non virgin adults want to do it by mutual consent, then whats the problem if its halal?

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Brother, you need to read the Holy Qur'an. The stories of the hardships of the Prophets (AS), you can use them as an example. Do you believe you have endured more than Prophet Ayoub (AS)?

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Guest trying to help
Quote

Now you are second guessing Allah(s.w.a). You think Allah(s.w.a) didn't realize that there would be a time, like you mentioned ?

Islam has enough principles for this. Allah knew this time would come so he said we have rules like health which override lesser laws. If not masturbating will ruin your health you think its still haram? I know because it happened to me.

Have you seen hadith on giving goats and cows as recompense and how scholars understood them in principle? We are not akhbari, we look at principle for our time.

@DigitalUmmah what if the guy is in prison? You deny that mutah is not always possible?

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12 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Theres (understandably) a huge stigma associated with it because of horny idiots taking advantage if gullible virgin girls living in their dads houses.

But if two sane, independent, non virgin adults want to do it by mutual consent, then whats the problem if its halal?

None as far as I can see. Still sad to hear about unsavory characters misusing mutah, the world would be a better place if mutah wasn't stigmatized.

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6 minutes ago, Guest trying to help said:

Islam has enough principles for this. Allah knew this time would come so he said we have rules like health which override lesser laws. If not masturbating will ruin your health you think its still haram? I know because it happened to me.

Have you seen hadith on giving goats and cows as recompense and how scholars understood them in principle? We are not akhbari, we look at principle for our time.

@DigitalUmmah what if the guy is in prison? You deny that mutah is not always possible?

Yes, but the overrides are concluded by scholars who understand the principles and evidence on which those principles are based. There is no alim that I know of that has ever made the argument you made regarding masturbation. So that should give you pause to think about what you are saying.

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Guest trying to help
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Yes, but the overrides are concluded by scholars who understand the principles and evidence on which those principles are based. There is no alim that I know of that has ever made the argument you made regarding masturbation. So that should give you pause to think about what you are saying.

It's because they never lived in the west. You see how shia alims in India were first to say sweat of mushriks was not haram? All other alims said it was najis but Indian alims realized it was impossible for them to even go on the bus because for that fatwa. Its because they lived there. In the future mark my words you will see marjas who will say masturbation is halal if it is done as little as possible. I agree with what ozzy wrote. Do it only as much as needed.

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20 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

None as far as I can see. Still sad to hear about unsavory characters misusing mutah, the world would be a better place if mutah wasn't stigmatized.

The world would be a better place if people talked about those subjects openly like the Quran does...

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I don't think there is any need whatsoever to change the rules as they were in the time of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله

The same rule applies today as it did then and the same exceptions apply as they did then:
فمن اضطر غير باغ ولا عاد فلا إثم عليه

Based on this verse, regardless of whether masturbation is permissible or not - suggests that if one must masturbate then:
[1] Must not be out of deliberate disobedience, or pre-meditated, or feel satisfied with it retrospectively, or boast of it afterwards.
[2] Must not be more than needed; i.e. use of pornography (in whatever form) is not necessary, or spending excessive time, or to the extent that it affects other obligations etc
If one has no recourse to anything except masturbation and he does so under extreme need without the intent to disobey or transgress then there is no sin, never was.

By this principle, the fuqaha never need to change any law, there is always an exception for the مضطرين as long as they observe its boundaries. This is the same as consuming pork or alcohol for the one who must consume it to stay alive, it has always been haram, yet always been excused for the مضطرين as long as they didn't plan it, boasted about it afterwards, or drank more than needed or in excess etc.

As time goes on and fitna increases, we don't change the law, we excuse the weak as being مضطرين and we help them overcome their struggles.

Edited by Ozzy

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35 minutes ago, Guest trying to help said:

@DigitalUmmah what if the guy is in prison? You deny that mutah is not always possible?

Er my advice would be to not drop the soap in the shower.

Seriously though conjugal visits exist for a reason. Behave yourself and the wardens would hook you up

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