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Sexual intercourse during mutah

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Guest Fereshte

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Guest Fereshte

Assalamu alaikom

I am on mutah with my fiance, amd ofcourse my fathers permission was required in order for the mutah to be valid as I am still young. My father placed a condition that this mutah is for a mahramiya only and sexual intercouse is not allowed. However after few months of being in the mutah my fiance and I had sex. 

What is the ruling on this, is it considered haram ?

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1 hour ago, Guest Fereshte said:

I am on mutah with my fiance, amd ofcourse my fathers permission was required in order for the mutah to be valid as I am still young. My father placed a condition that this mutah is for a mahramiya only and sexual intercouse is not allowed. However after few months of being in the mutah my fiance and I had sex. 

What is the ruling on this, is it considered haram ?

Salam. Mutah is a marriage. The husband and wife are making their marriage contract and they decide the conditions of the marriage. If they agree to not have sexual intercourse during the marriage, then this is a lawful contract between them. Imam Jafar Sadiq AS was asked about the woman asking for a condition of not consummating the marriage, and he said:

Quote

'The man has to fulfill the stated conditions.'

So if the condition of non-intercourse is part of the marriage contract, that is the woman's right and the man needs to accept it. Of course she is allowed to change her mind:

Quote

However, according to the most widely held opinion, in such a case if the woman should give permission for intercourse during the time period, intercourse is then permissible. 

Quotes are from The Statutes of Mut'a, Conditions in the Contract, at the link below:

https://www.al-islam.org/muta-temporary-marriage-in-islamic-law-sachiko-murata/statutes-muta

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5 hours ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

So if the condition of non-intercourse is part of the marriage contract, that is the woman's right and the man needs to accept it. Of course she is allowed to change her mind:

If the father gave her daughter in mutah marriage as an engagement thing with the intention of only making them mahram so they can go out together but explicitly stating that sexual intercourse is NOT allowed -then it does not matter whether or not his virgin daughter "changes her mind" throughout the course of that mutah, she does not have authority to change that part of the contract on her own.

 

As far as I know, you and your husband went against the contract by doing something which the contract said you were not allowed to do.

As you say that you are young, thus needing your fathers permission, I assume that you were virgin as well.

Now that you have lost your virginity in a mutah, nothing is stopping the guy from having a change of heart and ending the mutah before you have a permanent marriage, then you will be left in a position where you "secretly" lost your virginity and then you will have to explain that to the next guy, who might go and tell your father, then you have to explain to him how you broke his trust.

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On 6/21/2017 at 10:06 PM, Guest Fereshte said:

What is the ruling on this, is it considered haram ?

@IbnSina What you replied is what some people would say, that what she did was wrong, however, the wife was not asking that. She wanted to know the Islamic ruling, if she had done something haram. The Islamic ruling, according to the majority of the Shia Ulema is that her action was halal. A married couple can decide to abstain from intercourse and they can later decide to consummate the marriage. They are married and in the event she becomes pregnant then their baby is halal

Quote

However, according to the most widely held opinion, in such a case if the woman should give permission for intercourse during the time period, intercourse is then permissible. 

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7 hours ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

@IbnSina What you replied is what some people would say, that what she did was wrong, however, the wife was not asking that. She wanted to know the Islamic ruling, if she had done something haram. The Islamic ruling, according to the majority of the Shia Ulema is that her action was halal. A married couple can decide to abstain from intercourse and they can later decide to consummate the marriage. They are married and in the event she becomes pregnant then their baby is halal

And if the women is virgin when entering the mutah with the fathers permission on the basis that they are NOT allowed to have intercourse.

Is she still allowed to have intercourse based on her own decision later on in the same mutah under the same contract then?

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8 hours ago, IbnSina said:

And if the women is virgin when entering the mutah with the fathers permission on the basis that they are NOT allowed to have intercourse.

Is she still allowed to have intercourse based on her own decision later on in the same mutah under the same contract then?

The father of the bride should have known that once she was married to the groom, the father cannot control what the bride and groom do or don't do. As soon as the couple are married they can agree to follow the conditions of the marriage or they can change their mind and make a new decision. However, the Ulema agree, as soon as the wife consents to consummate the marriage and physical relations took place, she cannot deny intimacy with the husband. She needs to look at "family planning": 

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13 minutes ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

The father of the bride should have known that once she was married to the groom, the father cannot control what the bride and groom do or don't do. As soon as the couple are married they can agree to follow the conditions of the marriage or they can change their mind and make a new decision. However, the Ulema agree, as soon as the wife consents to consummate the marriage and physical relations took place, she cannot deny intimacy with the husband. She needs to look at "family planning": 

 

What you are saying renders the fathers condition on the husband for non intimacy with his virgin daughter or any other condition stipulated in the CONTRACT absolutely useless and pointless.

Lets think about this logically:

A virgin daughter is required to have her fathers permission to marry.

If a father gives the virgin daughter his consent on a condition, a contract is made that makes them married under the conditions stipulated in the contract.

If later on his still virgin daughter wishes to make a new marriage contract with changes, this would render the old contract void and as such a NEW contract is made BUT the daughter is still virgin, so should the need for a new consent from her father not be required since she is still virgin, although previously married?

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11 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Lets think about this logically:

A virgin daughter is required to have her fathers permission to marry.

If a father gives the virgin daughter his consent on a condition, a contract is made that makes them married under the conditions stipulated in the contract.

If later on his still virgin daughter wishes to make a new marriage contract with changes, this would render the old contract void and as such a NEW contract is made BUT the daughter is still virgin, so should the need for a new consent from her father not be required since she is still virgin, although previously married?

Since she is a married woman (whether she consummated the marriage or she did not), she no longer needs her father's permission to make another decision. Please refer to your marja:

On 6/22/2017 at 0:02 AM, ShiaChat Mod said:

So if the condition of non-intercourse is part of the marriage contract, that is the woman's right and the man needs to accept it. Of course she is allowed to change her mind:

Quote

However, according to the most widely held opinion, in such a case if the woman should give permission for intercourse during the time period, intercourse is then permissible. 

Quotes are from The Statutes of Mut'a, Conditions in the Contract, at the link below:

https://www.al-islam.org/muta-temporary-marriage-in-islamic-law-sachiko-murata/statutes-muta

 

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3 hours ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

Since she is a married woman (whether she consummated the marriage or she did not), she no longer needs her father's permission to make another decision. Please refer to your marja:

I will iA confirm what you are saying but can you please reply to the statement i made:

"What you are saying renders the fathers condition on the husband for non intimacy with his virgin daughter or any other condition stipulated in the CONTRACT absolutely useless and pointless."

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6 hours ago, IbnSina said:

"What you are saying renders the fathers condition on the husband for non intimacy with his virgin daughter or any other condition stipulated in the CONTRACT absolutely useless and pointless."

What other conditions? The only condition that this topic is discussing is sexual intercourse during mutah. The Father's condition that his virgin daughter can marry by mutah but must refrain from physical relations until her nikah (permanent marriage) is correct and the daughter should have honored her father's condition, however the CONTRACT is between the wife and her husband. If they decide to consummate their marriage, it is permissible. She should immediately tell her female relative (mother, grandmother, aunt) that she consummated the marriage so the family can arrange the nikah as soon as possible. 

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:salam:

On 6/22/2017 at 5:41 AM, IbnSina said:

If the father gave her daughter in mutah marriage as an engagement thing with the intention of only making them mahram so they can go out together but explicitly stating that sexual intercourse is NOT allowed -then it does not matter whether or not his virgin daughter "changes her mind" throughout the course of that mutah, she does not have authority to change that part of the contract on her own.

Which contract are you talking about? The only contract I am seeing here is the marriage contract. The father is not a party to this contract to begin with. He simply gave her permission to get married (which also implies he is fine with her marrying him as a person), but he asked her to ensure she puts this clause in her marriage contract. She listened to her father and placed that clause in her contract, and the husband agreed to it, but after the 'aqd has been recited she then had every right to nullify that condition and change her mind on it.

Wasalam

Edited by Ibn al-Hussain
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34 minutes ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

:salam:

Which contract are you talking about? The only contract I am seeing here is the marriage contract. The father is not a party to this contract to begin with. He simply gave her permission to get married (which also implies he is fine with her marrying him as a person), but he asked her to ensure she puts this clause in her marriage contract. She listened to her father and placed that clause in her contract, and the husband agreed to it, but after the 'aqd has been recited she then had every right to nullify that condition and change her mind on it.

Wasalam

So what you are telling me is that the fathers contingency for his daughter to engage in temporary marriage contract with the guy is only valid as long as the daughter cares about it and she can at any point, even a second after the contract has taken place, nullify the fathers contingency and do whatever they want?

Am I the only one who finds this not sensible?

It was a contingency.

 

46 minutes ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

What other conditions? The only condition that this topic is discussing is sexual intercourse during mutah. The Father's condition that his virgin daughter can marry by mutah but must refrain from physical relations until her nikah (permanent marriage) is correct and the daughter should have honored her father's condition, however the CONTRACT is between the wife and her husband. If they decide to consummate their marriage, it is permissible. She should immediately tell her female relative (mother, grandmother, aunt) that she consummated the marriage so the family can arrange the nikah as soon as possible. 

Whatever condition the father might give, whether its about sexual intercourse or whatever ells. What value does the fathers conditions/contingencies for approving have if they can be nullified whenever it pleases?

 

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3 hours ago, IbnSina said:

What value does the fathers conditions/contingencies for approving have if they can be nullified whenever it pleases?

The woman (adult female) followed the Islamic law and asked her father's permission to get married. The father's condition or contingency that she not consummate the mutah marriage was part of the wife and husband's contract. However, as soon as his daughter was married to her husband, the two of them have the right to live together -- or separately -- and begin to make decisions in their own interest. The father's condition or contingency is something that is possible but cannot be predicted with certainty. The father can only predict with certainty his own behavior, not the behavior of his married daughter and his son-in-law.

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4 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

:salam:

Okay so we need to clarify two possible scenarios. One is that the father gave her permission, and it was not a conditional permission, rather it was a general permission and then a request for them to add a condition to their contract. In this case, we know there is no issue in her nullifying this condition from her contract after the marriage and it has nothing to do with his permission.

In the second scenario, which seems to be the one you are proposing (but doesn't appear to be common practice), is that the permission of the father itself was conditional. So the question now is, is there such thing as a conditional permission when it comes to a marriage contract? Those who say that permission is required for the marriage, then yes the father can put conditions in his permission, however despite that, if the person goes against their condition, there is a difference of opinion on whether the marriage contract gets invalidated or not. Though they have sinned (as far as they have not abided by the condition of the guardian), many jurists say it does not invalidate the marriage contract (and subsequently neither was the intercourse fornication). Since we do not know who her marj'a is and let alone what his opinion is on this matter, there is no other option but to contact the marj'a and see what they have to say.

Wasalam

If a virgin daughter said to her father that she wants to enter a temporary marriage with a man to get to know him before eventually getting a permanent marriage, this is not something strange.

But if a virgin daughter said to her father that she wants to loose her virginity in temporarily marriage to a man she might eventually permanently marry while she is getting to know him, the father would not give his permission, common sense and custom dictates so.

In this case the OP said "ofcourse my fathers permission was required in order for the mutah to be valid as I am still young. My father placed a condition that this mutah is for a mahramiya only and sexual intercouse is not allowed." we can conclude that the father gave his permission on a condition, the condition was that they are not to have sex during the temporary marriage, if she would have told her father that they would, he would not have given his approval just like you wouldnt with your daughter.

Now that we can with most certainty conclude that it is a matter of conditional permission and not absolute permission, we can also like you said, conclude that there is a difference of OPINION between marjas and as such none of us should give a general reply regarding the right or wrong about this situation based on islamic law, since there is not a universal right or wrong but it depends on your marjas ruling.

If one gives a reply regarding it being right and saying that it is the islamic law, then they have taken their opinion and possibly their marjas opinion and expressed it as common islamic law and this is wrong. At least you need to specify that it is the opinion/ruling of a certain marja

It would be interesting to know what the major marjas say regarding this situation and what their opinions are.

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Salam,

I did some research on this as well as asking one of my friends who has been studying in Hawza for about 8 years.

This is the following conclusion:

If the girls father said that she cannot have sex during the reading of the contract, that is when the contract was made, making it a part of the actual contract, then it is valid and in that case under no circumstances can she and her husband break that condition or make a new contract without that condition without it being invalid.

However, if the condition was said for example a day before the contract was made, or said outside of the actual reading of the contract then it is not actually valid but it is still immoral to go against it since your father assumed you will respect his request.

So the father either makes sure his condition is read while verbalizing the contract or he risks the chance of his daughter not respecting his wish, which it will become unless it is particularly said while making the contract in which case it is a CONDITION on which the contract is valid.

If  the fathers condition was recited in the making of the verbal contract, then the daughter has not the right to change her mind on her own regarding the state of her contract if it breaks the condition put on her by her father upon entering the mutah contract because she is still in fiqh vise and other vise a virgin by definition and still needs her fathers permission upon entering a marital contract.

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