Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
notme

Jimmy Carter on gender discrimination

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Salam

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/losing-my-religion-for-equality-20090714-dk0v.html?stb=fb

Note that he's speaking from a Christian perspective. 

I find that I agree with much of what he says. Carter may not have been a good president, but he is an eloquent writer and strong advocate for human rights. Opinions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I have everything against him as a president,  I do agree what he said about the bible.

In history men were horrible and had no respect for women. You do find that the holy Quran is the only holy book which has a whole chapter on women. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the biggest feminist in a way. I don't think any religion gave women so much rights as Islam.

Bible has clearly been distorted like Jimmy said and messed up scholars have rewritten certain verses to suit their own desires.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Bible has clearly been distorted like Jimmy said and messed up scholars have rewritten certain verses to suit their own desires.

I think that some Muslims have distorted certain verses of the Quran similarly, and ignored other verses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

 Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the biggest feminist in a way.

Oh my...

Bro why don't we refrain from using all these fancy words with highly highly volatile and dangerous connotations?

Why don't we just leave it at: the Prophet came up in a society in which women were, as a whole, not respected as human beings and he brought a divine message which upheld the respect for women. Isn't this better?

The word feminist, especially these days, comes with a lot of unnecessary baggage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, notme said:

Salam

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/losing-my-religion-for-equality-20090714-dk0v.html?stb=fb

Note that he's speaking from a Christian perspective. 

I find that I agree with much of what he says. Carter may not have been a good president, but he is an eloquent writer and strong advocate for human rights. Opinions?

Women must be treated with the upmost respect and care but Men were raised to a higher degree by Allah to take care of the Women but society destroys that tradition and instead Men and Women are made equal which is not right. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, ShiaBrother12 said:

Women must be treated with the upmost respect and care but Men were raised to a higher degree by Allah to take care of the Women but society destroys that tradition and instead Men and Women are made equal which is not right. 

Disagree. Men have been assigned responsibility for leadership and protection, but this is not superiority. No man or woman is superior except in his or her deeds. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, notme said:

Disagree. Men have been assigned responsibility for leadership and protection, but this is not superiority. No man or woman is superior except in his or her deeds. 

 

I never claimed superiority I claimed what you just mentioned about leadership, responsibility and protection but Men and Women are not equal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, notme said:

Disagree. Men have been assigned responsibility for leadership and protection, but this is not superiority. No man or woman is superior except in his or her deeds. 

 

You can disagree if you will but Feminism and Islam dont go together. You cant be a true believer and a feminist. Doesnt work that way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ShiaBrother12 said:

I never claimed superiority I claimed what you just mentioned about leadership, responsibility and protection but Men and Women are not equal. 

Spiritually and morally equal, equal in value as humans, but assigned different roles, just as a doctor and a farmer are equal, but not the same. Equal does not mean identical, it means neither is more or less than the other. (Four quarters is equal to one dollar, but they aren't very similar in weight, appearance, durability, sound when dropped....)

1 hour ago, ShiaBrother12 said:

You can disagree if you will but Feminism and Islam dont go together. You cant be a true believer and a feminist. Doesnt work that way. 

Feminism is one of those slippery words that means different things to different people at different times and places. Because of this, I try to avoid using it if there is another word that will fit. I think in the case of Mr. Carter's article "human rights" is a more fitting term than "feminism". Agree? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think President Carter's move is logical for him. He is interested in women's equality and rights. There are other Baptist groups he can join if he wishes. Plenty of people leave groups that they feel are spiritually or societally oppressive for one reason or another. Likely one of the reasons the largest growing faith group in the US is the one affiliated with no organized religion.

My note on his church history thinking: Although I think that the office of deacon is the only one that can be scripturally proved was held by women in the early days of the Church (it is inferred from art and other sources that others might have been held) we are not living in the same type of society as the earliest Christians. My own church is dealing with this outside of ordination to the diaconate,but I personally think the ancient office should be reinstituted, especially since women end up doing most of the work in the Church  and are de facto deacons and ministers even if they don't have the title. This is going to require some work in theology and canon law due to the tradition of these positions being held only by men for over a millenia.

Whether or not a faith claims to " liberate" women ( from what? In terms of the ancient Middle East for Abrahamic faiths,how high or low was that bar? ) the proof, as they say,is in the pudding. Women continue to be abused in many religions. So he is correct on that. Are the patriarchal  attitudes  extant in some to blame? Can't speak for anyone else, but sure have been in my Church at times.

 

Cultural note...we don't have a traditional legacy of patriarchy in this village....so there is another set of values extant. It has traditionally clashed with what was considered the "unbalanced "aspects of Christianity. So we come by that honestly, not from outside feminists or college classes. Lol. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, notme said:

Spiritually and morally equal, equal in value as humans, but assigned different roles, just as a doctor and a farmer are equal, but not the same. Equal does not mean identical, it means neither is more or less than the other. (Four quarters is equal to one dollar, but they aren't very similar in weight, appearance, durability, sound when dropped....)

Feminism is one of those slippery words that means different things to different people at different times and places. Because of this, I try to avoid using it if there is another word that will fit. I think in the case of Mr. Carter's article "human rights" is a more fitting term than "feminism". Agree? 

Men and Women are not equal. Period. This is clearly Feminism. As I mentioned Feminism and Islam cant coexist. Its either one or the other. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ShiaBrother12 said:

Men and Women are not equal. Period. This is clearly Feminism. As I mentioned Feminism and Islam cant coexist. Its either one or the other. 

Can you prove (or at least support) this assertion? As I read it, men are assigned the responsibility of leadership and protection. I've seen no evidence of superiority or inferiority. Having a particular assignment does not indicate superiority or inferiority. 

Edited by notme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, notme said:

Can you prove (or at least support) this assertion? As I read it, men are assigned the responsibility of leadership and protection. I've seen no evidence of superiority or inferiority. Having a particular assignment does not indicate superiority or inferiority. 

No inferiority but Men and Women are not the same. Period. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, ShiaBrother12 said:

No inferiority but Men and Women are not the same. Period. 

We agree, men and women are not the same. :) Equal in value as a person is not the same as identical. 

The point of the article was Mr. Carter deciding to disassociate himself from the Christian denomination he had identified with because it preaches that women are inferior to men because of "original sin". 

Some Muslims seem to believe similarly, which is odd since we don't believe in "original sin". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, notme said:

We agree, men and women are not the same. :) Equal in value as a person is not the same as identical. 

The point of the article was Mr. Carter deciding to disassociate himself from the Christian denomination he had identified with because it preaches that women are inferior to men because of "original sin". 

Some Muslims seem to believe similarly, which is odd since we don't believe in "original sin". 

What im trying to say is that well for example Husbands have to provide for their wives, pay for their food and clothing and also for the children. The wife has to serve the husband but the husband must treat the wife with care. The Father is the one whom a man must ask for permission to take his daughters hand. Women are not inferior. Women are powerful and bring joy to a man's life. Important women who made an impact in humanity is Fatima and Prophet Elisha. Women have the right to education and proper treatment. I never meant that Women were inferior to Men nor will I ever believe in such inshallah. I just dont support Feminism. I agree with Feminism in Educational purposes. I like countries like Iran whereby a lot of women go to University. 

Edited by ShiaBrother12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...