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In the Name of God بسم الله

Do Hanafis/Hanbalis/Shafis pray like pagans?

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  • Advanced Member
19 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

@Student_of_Deen You seem to be in shock and denial, did you actually read my source? Let me post an excerpt on the photo:

No i`m not in shock and denial at all. 

Alhamdulilah i`m not illogical enough to buy the conclusion you drew from that picture. Because if we went by your logic then even standing and prostrating and prayer will become an act of emulating pagans. 

19 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

@Student_of_Deen

Actually none do and you haven't provided any evidence showing they do.

 

17 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

The sites are all pininterest, a photo upload site. Literally anyone can title the picture anything. Go ahead and show me one site, it's amazing how you shift the burden of proof on me, when you made the claim.

SwAPdcB.png

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=FpqZCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=praying+statue+of+Amenemhat+III&source=bl&ots=lisuh8Jxkp&sig=hnoeKlJxRiGxXIMnhGAGQdrecwo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZgPScmpfUAhXCu48KHQsUDGI4ChDoAQg4MAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

 


Another example from Ancient Egypt which proves that Shi`as also pray like pagans by kneeling in worship. (of course only if we went by your logic). 

Large Kneeling Statue of Hatshepsut (ca. 1479–1458 B.C.) kneeling in devotion to God(s).

 

 

http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/544448

However if you are still not satisfied then In`sha Allah can present more example of Ancient people praying in similar positions & displaying similar gestures like Shi`as do in prayer. 

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19 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

Do you need more than 1000 jews to confirm your conjectures?

It`s you who is providing incomplete information and forming conclusions based on it.

I simply made a point that this is a minority among Jews who still bows down in prayer. 

19 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

You  do not even recognize the difference between the prayer of Shia and  sunnis except Malikis  who pray with open / unfolded  arms.

What do you mean I do not even recognize the difference between the prayer of Shi`a and Sunnis ?

19 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

Do Maliki pray unfolded rams just presently starting their such prayer?

Are not they the follower of Imam Malik who also lived in medina?

They are the followers of Imam Malik (Rahimahullah) and they pray like this from the start. 

Abu al-Walid al-Baji, A prominent Maliki scholar from Al Andalus explained:

 “It may be that Maalik said that placing one hand on top of the other is makrooh because he was afraid that the common people would believe that this was one of the essential pillars of the prayer and that prayer would be invalid if one did not do this.” 

Imam Maalik (rahimahullah) probably considered it makrooh for the above reason. Unlike the OP, He did not considered it an act emulating the pagans. 

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1 hour ago, Student_of_Deen said:

No i`m not in shock and denial at all. 

Alhamdulilah i`m not illogical enough to buy the conclusion you drew from that picture. Because if we went by your logic then even standing and prostrating and prayer will become an act of emulating pagans. 

 

SwAPdcB.png

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=FpqZCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=praying+statue+of+Amenemhat+III&source=bl&ots=lisuh8Jxkp&sig=hnoeKlJxRiGxXIMnhGAGQdrecwo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZgPScmpfUAhXCu48KHQsUDGI4ChDoAQg4MAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

 


Another example from Ancient Egypt which proves that Shi`as also pray like pagans by kneeling in worship. (of course only if we went by your logic). 

Large Kneeling Statue of Hatshepsut (ca. 1479–1458 B.C.) kneeling in devotion to God(s).

 

 

http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/544448

However if you are still not satisfied then In`sha Allah can present more example of Ancient people praying in similar positions & displaying similar gestures like Shi`as do in prayer. 

Showing "devotionational attitude" is not the same as praying or being in a state of prayer. Show me one that actually says they were praying. Secondly, that is a kneeling one, not standing.

 

Edited by Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī
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8 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

They are the followers of Imam Malik (Rahimahullah) and they pray like this from the start. 

Abu al-Walid al-Baji, A prominent Maliki scholar from Al Andalus explained:

 “It may be that Maalik said that placing one hand on top of the other is makrooh because he was afraid that the common people would believe that this was one of the essential pillars of the prayer and that prayer would be invalid if one did not do this.” 

Imam Maalik (rahimahullah) probably considered it makrooh for the above reason. Unlike the OP, He did not considered it an act emulating the pagans. 

Thanks for clarification for the truth.

Shia also pray with unfolded arms like Malikis 

Edited by skyweb1987
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8 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Abu al-Walid al-Baji, A prominent Maliki scholar from Al Andalus explained:

 “It may be that Maalik said that placing one hand on top of the other is makrooh because he was afraid that the common people would believe that this was one of the essential pillars of the prayer and that prayer would be invalid if one did not do this.” 

Imam Maalik (rahimahullah) probably considered it makrooh for the above reason. Unlike the OP, He did not considered it an act emulating the pagans. 

It is unlikely he is a prominent Maliki scholar. If he was a prominent Maliki scholar he would know the following incontrovertible facts.

Maliki school of thought has an extra level jurispudence over and above the other 3 schools

The extra level of jurispudence says if you find 2 conflicting opinions and cannot resolve which one is correct, look to the people of Medina and do what they do.

So in respect of Salaat. Imam Qasim who one of Imam Malik's most prominent students reports that he asked Imam Malik his opinion on those that folded their arms in salaat.

Imam Malik is reported to have said 'I have never seen the people of Medina pray with their arms folded. 

The second piece of evidence that is in my opinion far more illuminating is that the Ibadis of Oman also pray with their arms open.

The Ibaadis are the descendents of the Kharijis who split from the main Ummah after Jang-Sifeen.

They are well known to have rejected religious indoctrination from the Omayads, Abbasides and indeed Hz Ali(as) or any of the 4 Sunni Imams.

Since it is quite clear they developed in isolation from the rest of the Muslim Ummah it is enlightening that they also pray with their arms open.

Malikis , Shias and Ibaadis historically do not share any Religious Jurists therefore either they all independently all started opening their hands or this was the original method.

Hanafi. Hanbal and Shafi all share a common origin and teachings and all have closed arms.

Just on the balance of probability hand clasping would appear to be the modification   

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On ‎29‎-‎5‎-‎2017 at 9:31 AM, Student_of_Deen said:

 

So what ?

If tomorrow a Shi`a group started praying with folded hands. Will you say "okay look some Shi`as are also praying with hands folded so we cannot use that against Sunnis anymore" ? 

In sunnism this is exactly the reason why salafi's in disguise object against sadl.

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Now as far as my concern and quran and ahadith

praying hand folded is not something new in our religion, but we will never know why prophet muhammad (peace be upon him) chose to pray with his hand folded all tho there is nothing wrong with praying hands un-folded, if anyone says its wrong, then we have to disagree its not wrong, but the sunnah of the prophet muhammad is praying hands folded on the chest

Now before we got the hadith some shia do not accept sahih al bukhari, me myself born from shia family but im a muslim and not sunni or shia and i have studied quran and ahadith

here is the following hadith  It was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “We Prophets have been commanded to delay our suhoor and to break our fast straight away, and to place our right hands over our left hands when praying.” (narrated by Ibn Hibbaan in al-Saheeh, 3/13-14).

now from this hadith we clearly see that prophet muhammad (peace be upon him) used to put his left and right hand over to pray all tho it is not obligatory it is a recommended act of prayer

Now the malikis said that : concerning the report about holding one hand with the other in fard and naafil prayers, that this is the more correct meaning, because people were commanded to do this during the earliest generations (See al-Qawaaneen, 65). 

 so people were commanded to do this in the earlier generation too

and Allah knows the best...

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38 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Does not Shia have an auhtentic hadith of how the woman needs to pray exactly by putting the hand next to chest?

 
:bismillah:
 
 

Allahu A3lam

Wsalam

 

Edited by The Straight Path
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