Do Hanafis/Hanbalis/Shafis pray like pagans?

[humanbeing101]

A 24th-century BC statue of a praying Sumerian man (modern day eastern Syria

[Hameedeh]

2 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

A 24th-century BC statue of a praying Sumerian man (modern day eastern Syria

25th-century BC statue.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Ebih-Il 

[AnotherShepherd]

Now there's an interesting topic. 

[Hameedeh]

Is a praying man (who holds his hands near his chest) a pagan? He is praying to God, isn't he? 

[sidnaq]

this makes me feel better about praying with arms down

[notme]

How do they know the statue is of a man praying? Was it recorded, or is it modern interpretation?

[Panzerwaffe]

Kufan style of praying and its comparison with ancient Sumerian way of praying that be a great research topic 

[Student_of_Deen]

The most ridiculous thread i`ve seen on this forum so far. No wonder majority of the Sunnis that used to be on here have left this place. 

[Student_of_Deen]

Statues of Pharaoh Amenemhat III (died 1814 BC) praying. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If anyone wants to see more statues of ancient pagans praying with hands by their sides (i.e Open hands) then let me know. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by Student_of_Deen

[humanbeing101]

On 5/27/2017 at 10:27 AM, Student_of_Deen said:

Statues of Pharaoh Amenemhat III (died 1814 BC) praying. 

If anyone wants to see more statues of ancient pagans praying with hands by their sides (i.e Open hands) then let me know. 

Where does it say the statue is praying?

Edited July 2, 2017 by Dhulfikar

[humanbeing101]

6 hours ago, notme said:

How do they know the statue is of a man praying? Was it recorded, or is it modern interpretation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer#History

http://arthistoryworlds.org/sculpture-from-sumer/

http://www.rmo.nl/english/collection/highlights/near-east-collection/praying-sumerian-man

Quote

This limestone statuette represents a man praying, possibly a priest. His head is shaven and his torso nude. His hands are folded in front of his body, his open right hand enclosing his clenched left fist, his right thumb placed behind his left. It is a praying gesture typical of the time.

 

[Muslim2010]

On 5/27/2017 at 10:27 AM, Student_of_Deen said:

Statues of Pharaoh Amenemhat III (died 1814 BC) praying. 

If anyone wants to see more statues of ancient pagans praying with hands by their sides (i.e Open hands) then let me know. 

The following video makes it clear that most sunni pray like jews (hands folded) and there is no difference between their prayers style.

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Dhulfikar

[Muslim2010]

Also there is section of sunnis ie Malikis who pray like Shia with hands unfolded.

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by skyweb1987

[Ali_Hussain]

2 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

The following video makes it clear that most sunni pray like jews (hands folded) and there is no difference between their prayers style.

 

Yes, but the same way that most Shi'a stay away from certain sea animals, as the Jews do, the same argument can be used for the form of prayer. Rather than being an imitation it is a divine order that is found in the previous religions. 

[notme]

As long as humans have existed, we've had an urge to supplicate to the Creator. There are only just so many respectful postures. I don't think we can draw conclusions about correctness or incorrectness solely due to historical usage. 

[Faruk]

Sadl is permitted in sunnism and obligatory in shi'ism (zaidiyyah and ithna ashari) and ibadism. 

Seems that sadl has the heaviest weight.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Faruk

[humanbeing101]

4 hours ago, notme said:

As long as humans have existed, we've had an urge to supplicate to the Creator. There are only just so many respectful postures. I don't think we can draw conclusions about correctness or incorrectness solely due to historical usage. 

The Ibadis are the earliest sect in Islam and even they pray with hands beside them...

Secondly what is the reason of folding the arms?

Edited May 27, 2017 by Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

[Faruk]

2 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

The Ibadis are the earliest sect in Islam and even they pray with hands beside them...

Secondly what is the reason of folding the arms?

Not only that. Until their disagreement at Siffin they were part of the camp of Imam Ali a.s.  

It seems that Ahlus Sunnah adopted qabd later on.

[Student_of_Deen]

On 2017-5-27 at 4:21 PM, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Where does it say the statue is praying?

The image you posted does not say the statue is praying either. But you choose to believe what the acheologists and the experts in this field say. 

Similarly Archaeologists/Egyptologists say those statues of Amenemhat III depict him praying. 

Search for the praying statue of Amenemhat III. 

[Student_of_Deen]

On 2017-5-27 at 8:54 PM, skyweb1987 said:

The following video makes it clear that most sunni pray like jews (hands folded) and there is no difference between their prayers style.

 

This is just one man. Can you tell me which sect of Judaism he belongs to ? Do you know majority of Jewish people today do not kneel when they pray ? 

Using your own logic It can be said that they stand in prayer and Shi`as also stand in prayer therefore shi`as pray like Jews, They bow down in prayer and Shi`as also bow down in prayer therefore Shi`as pray like Jews. You realize how Childish and retarded all this sounds ?

On 2017-5-27 at 9:00 PM, skyweb1987 said:

Also there is section of sunnis ie Malikis who pray like Shia with hands unfolded.

 

 

 

So what ?

If tomorrow a Shi`a group started praying with folded hands. Will you say "okay look some Shi`as are also praying with hands folded so we cannot use that against Sunnis anymore" ? 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Student_of_Deen

[humanbeing101]

@Student_of_Deen

 

Quote

The image you posted does not say the statue is praying either. But you choose to believe what the acheologists and the experts in this field say. 

You seem to be in shock and denial, did you actually read my source? Let me post an excerpt on the photo:

Quote

Praying Sumerian man http://www.rmo.nl/english/collection/highlights/near-east-collection/praying-sumerian-man

Quote

Similarly Archaeologists/Egyptologists say those statues of Amenemhat III depict him praying. 

Search for the praying statue of Amenemhat III. 

Actually none do and you haven't provided any evidence showing they do.

[Wisdom007]

1 hour ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

@Student_of_Deen

 

You seem to be in shock and denial, did you actually read my source? Let me post an excerpt on the photo:

Actually none do and you haven't provided any evidence showing they do.

Actually they do, if you just type in the google bar........"STATUE OF AMENMAHET 3 PRAYING", you will get loads of pics and plenty of sites saying he prayed with arms on the side. I don't know why you say you need proofs??

You did the same and came to your conclusion

proof is there on google.....sheikh sahib

Definitely is a ridiculous thread

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Wisdom007
Forgot

[Muslim2010]

6 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

This is just one man. Can you tell me which sect of Judaism he belongs to ? Do you know majority of Jewish people today do not kneel when they pray ? 

Using your own logic It can be said that they stand in prayer and Shi`as also stand in prayer therefore shi`as pray like Jews, They bow down in prayer and Shi`as also bow down in prayer therefore Shi`as pray like Jews. You realize how Childish and retarded all this sounds ?

Do you need more than 1000 jews to confirm your conjectures?

You  do not even recognize the difference between the prayer of Shia and  sunnis except Malikis  who pray with open / unfolded  arms.

[Muslim2010]

6 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

So what ?

If tomorrow a Shi`a group started praying with folded hands. Will you say "okay look some Shi`as are also praying with hands folded so we cannot use that against Sunnis anymore" ? 

Do Maliki pray unfolded rams just presently starting their such prayer?

Are not they the follower of Imam Malik who also lived in medina?

[humanbeing101]

1 hour ago, Wisdom007 said:

Actually they do, if you just type in the google bar........"STATUE OF AMENMAHET 3 PRAYING", you will get loads of pics and plenty of sites saying he prayed with arms on the side. I don't know why you say you need proofs??

You did the same and came to your conclusion

proof is there on google.....sheikh sahib

Definitely is a ridiculous thread

 

The sites are all pininterest, a photo upload site. Literally anyone can title the picture anything. Go ahead and show me one site, it's amazing how you shift the burden of proof on me, when you made the claim.

[Wisdom007]

28 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

The sites are all pininterest, a photo upload site. Literally anyone can title the picture anything. Go ahead and show me one site, it's amazing how you shift the burden of proof on me, when you made the claim.

Bro your giving us a site from Netherlands, like bro student of deen said it's academics and archaeologists that are telling us.

You can use Google and come up with your theory and when we do the same, it's..........."they are pin interest sites", bro there are PLENTY more sites on there, loads of pages, just like the Sumerian praying.

This shows your bias, hence the thread is a waste of time and you have no smoking gun in your hands.

Anyone can make assumptions and conspiracies as you are doing, not hardly academic is it?

 

 

[humanbeing101]

15 minutes ago, Wisdom007 said:

Bro your giving us a site from Netherlands, like bro student of deen said it's academics and archaeologists that are telling us.

You can use Google and come up with your theory and when we do the same, it's..........."they are pin interest sites", bro there are PLENTY more sites on there, loads of pages, just like the Sumerian praying.

This shows your bias, hence the thread is a waste of time and you have no smoking gun in your hands.

Anyone can make assumptions and conspiracies as you are doing, not hardly academic is it?

 

 

So I cannot use sites from the Netherland? What logic are you even employing? Here is information about the site

Quote

http://www.rmo.nl/english/organization/mission

The National Museum of Antiquities aims to be the central platform in the Netherlands for bringing antiquities and archaeology to a diverse range of people. Through exhibitions, education, public activities, scientific study, and national and international exchange, we tell stories that shed light on the relevance of the ancient world to our past and present.

Now tell me it isn't an academic site...

You haven't actually shown me any site. Which site just link me one legitmate site that supports what you are claiming. If you can show me just one, I will accept what you are saying. Deal? 

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

[Wisdom007]

24 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

So I cannot use sites from the Netherland? What logic are you even employing? Here is information about the site

Now tell me it isn't an academic site...

You haven't actually shown me any site. Which site just link me one legitmate site that supports what you are claiming. If you can show me just one, I will accept what you are saying. Deal? 

 

 

DEAL

AGAIN.....bro you are using a site so did he, yours is a Dutch antiquities museum site, so? Who do they get information from? Archaeologists etc same as the sites of  amenmahet 3.

Try reading this book bro it's ACADEMICALLY written , "Ancient Egypt Transformed: The Middle Kingdom", written by Adela Openheim, Dorothea Arnold and Dieter Arnold

Here is a site https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FpqZCgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:"Adela+Oppenheim"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSj9WXyZXUAhVrBsAKHRvlA-8Q6AEIITAB#v=onepage&q=Amenmahet 3 praying&f=falsewhere you can type in "ahmemahet 3 praying"........much easier than reading the book, it's not cheap.

 

[humanbeing101]

35 minutes ago, Wisdom007 said:

 

DEAL

AGAIN.....bro you are using a site so did he, yours is a Dutch antiquities museum site, so? Who do they get information from? Archaeologists etc same as the sites of  amenmahet 3.

Try reading this book bro it's ACADEMICALLY written , "Ancient Egypt Transformed: The Middle Kingdom", written by Adela Openheim, Dorothea Arnold and Dieter Arnold

Here is a site https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FpqZCgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:"Adela+Oppenheim"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSj9WXyZXUAhVrBsAKHRvlA-8Q6AEIITAB#v=onepage&q=Amenmahet 3 praying&f=falsewhere you can type in "ahmemahet 3 praying"........much easier than reading the book, it's not cheap.

 

You didn't read your own source, did you? This is the page and it says nothing on that pharaoh praying:

[Muslim2010]

10 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Using your own logic It can be said that they stand in prayer and Shi`as also stand in prayer therefore shi`as pray like Jews, They bow down in prayer and Shi`as also bow down in prayer therefore Shi`as pray like Jews. 

On 5/27/2017 at 0:27 PM, Student_of_Deen said:

Statues of Pharaoh Amenemhat III (died 1814 BC) praying. 

If anyone wants to see more statues of ancient pagans praying with hands by their sides (i.e Open hands) then let me know. 

 

These are your comments going against your own false assumptions presented in the last post:

 

[Wisdom007]

1 hour ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

You didn't read your own source, did you? This is the page and it says nothing on that pharaoh praying:

Oh bro come on, try reading before posting bro you would not have said what you said if you posted the FULL article for ALL to see, this is not justice.

i can only post links, I can't post the excerpts from the book somehow.

I have read it and you completely missed the first part,I don't know why, maybe by mistake.

click the link and type amenmahet 3 praying on the left of the screen it will take you straight there, if you still can't find it scroll to.......

'28. Statue of amenmahet 3 in a devotional attitude'

Look again it says " in prayer"

bro it's Ramadan be sincere, I know you made a deal and you know you lost it, we can leave it at that but please be sincere.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Wisdom007

[Wisdom007]

It should take you to this page

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Dhulfikar

[Wisdom007]

I think that concludes this useless uninformative waste of space thread unless your gonna go out on a limb and clutch on straws to give weight to your conspiracy theory, you made a deal on bringing you legitimate sites but I went one better.......I got you a link to an academic LEGIT book.

good luck and good bye bro I am done

[Student_of_Deen]

13 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

These are your comments going against your own false assumptions presented in the last post:

 

What assumptions ? I really don`t get what you`re talking about. 

[Hassan-]

In Shi'a fiqh women are allowed to pray like that too you know, not by folding their hands, but they can place their hands on their chest.