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In the Name of God بسم الله

What is sufi?

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28 minutes ago, PakistaniGirl1994 said:

I would like to know about Sufi Muslims I hear that they participate in the spiritual side of Islam, and are there sufi converts/reverts

sufism is a sect which rose up quite early in islamic history (even Imam Ali (as) knew about them and did not like them). 

generally, we see them as deviants and their beliefs not inline with what the Masumeen (as) taught. for example there is absolutely zero shame in enjoying the halal pleasures which Allah has given us (such as wives, good food, good clothes etc) and denying them doesn't somehow improve our spirituality. also, there are certain beliefs which are mandatory in our faith (such as salah) which we must perform according to what we were taught by masumeen (as), not make up our own because it "feels" right

they seem like quite a friendly bunch and their spinning thing looks nice and their music is pretty cool. but in terms of islamic beliefs we see them as deviated just like all non shia paths. we are not going to do takfir on them, or call for their murder or oppression or taking their rights or property. they have a right to live in peace like anyone else. our disagreement with them is purely on their islamic beliefs. last time i checked there were a grand total of zero massacres of shia by sufis. 

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1 hour ago, PakistaniGirl1994 said:

I would like to know about Sufi Muslims I hear that they participate in the spiritual side of Islam, and are there sufi converts/reverts

Assalamu Alikum. 

The sofism or sofi Muslim is spiritual understanding of Islam. Were in addition of following external shariah one has to purify his slef and become true servant ofAllah.And achieve nearness in to Allah. 

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3 hours ago, PakistaniGirl1994 said:

I would like to know about Sufi Muslims I hear that they participate in the spiritual side of Islam, and are there sufi converts/reverts

To complete your initial thought:

Sufi is one set of groups that follow romanticized superstitions with lsIamic characterizations (May Allah-s.w.t. curse them. Well, actually, they have already cursed themselves.)

Example: like pagan cults, they proclaim a superstition about "72 Virgins", thereby using sex as an attractant. Actually, this is an "attractant to Jehenna".

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1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

To complete your initial thought:

Sufi is one set of groups that follow romanticized superstitions with lsIamic characterizations (May Allah-s.w.t. curse them. Well, actually, they have already cursed themselves.)

Example: like pagan cults, they proclaim a superstition about "72 Virgins", thereby using sex as an attractant. Actually, this is an "attractant to Jehenna".

This is the same kind of propaganda as is used by nasibi's against Shia muslims. Especially the cursing part of your comment disgusted me.

Do not throw away the baby with bathing water.

Sufi muslims focus a lot on adab and introspection. Dhikr and brotherhood.

Something other sects can learn from.

Edited by Faruk
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1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

To complete your initial thought:

Sufi is one set of groups that follow romanticized superstitions with lsIamic characterizations (May Allah-s.w.t. curse them. Well, actually, they have already cursed themselves.)

Example: like pagan cults, they proclaim a superstition about "72 Virgins", thereby using sex as an attractant. Actually, this is an "attractant to Jehenna".

Wrong brother, Sufis are not like this what you said. They have wrong notions about God and they believe that everything is a part of God which is proved wrong by Shia Islam. 

As far as the question of 72 wives is concerned, there is in Quran, a promise about chaste wives for the people of heaven. I do not say a number but there is definitely a promise, 

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2 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Wrong brother, Sufis are not like this what you said. They have wrong notions about God and they believe that everything is a part of God which is proved wrong by Shia Islam. 

As far as the question of 72 wives is concerned, there is in Quran, a promise about chaste wives for the people of heaven. I do not say a number but there is definitely a promise, 

hauri (SP?) will exist but there is no inference that these are women or men (Yes, a few women will get there inshallah.)

When there are "wrong notions about god", then anything subsequent in thought is also "wrong" no matter how similar it appears.

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12 hours ago, hasanhh said:

hauri (SP?) will exist but there is no inference that these are women or men (Yes, a few women will get there inshallah.)

When there are "wrong notions about god", then anything subsequent in thought is also "wrong" no matter how similar it appears.

What does that mean that there are houris which has bigger eyes and whom no man or Jin has ever touched ? Although, I do not believe that one should primarily do good deeds for acquiring houris instead of being on the side of truth, but there is description and you should read about it. 

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17 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

What does that mean that there are houris which has bigger eyes and whom no man or Jin has ever touched ? Although, I do not believe that one should primarily do good deeds for acquiring houris instead of being on the side of truth, but there is description and you should read about it. 

The Quran only mentions them for the people who go to Jenna. Other than this there is no description.

Since people in Jenna will be in new forms there is no reason to presume either people, jinn or houri will be in bio-chemical forms. So think something robotic-servant.

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I don't remember exactly its wordings but do remember that someone quoted me a hadith in which it is said that they (sufi) follow the batin of Islam and Shariah is the zahir of Islam. Brother @Qa'im is once again requested to verify if there is any such hadith present in our books as well as its grading (if present).

Note: I am talking about Shia Sufi's. Like Shahbaz Qaladar, Bullay Shah etc.

Edited by Salsabeel
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4 hours ago, hasanhh said:

The Quran only mentions them for the people who go to Jenna. Other than this there is no description.

Since people in Jenna will be in new forms there is no reason to presume either people, jinn or houri will be in bio-chemical forms. So think something robotic-servant.

Brother, form will only be eternal and there will be no change in it except that we will live long and there be a separation between people of hell and heaven. God has promised us that we will live eternally, have food that will remind us what we ate in the world and wives, there will be no other change except that people will not die due to promise of God. 

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11 hours ago, baqar said:

May be but we Shias are not as peaceful as Sufis.

Everyone knows that we Shias are quite aggressive.

Having peace with Satan is also a very bad thing bro excess in everything is bad. There were people who were witnessing the battle of karbala and were saying: "O! curse be upon Yazid, what he is doing, killing the grandson of Prophet PBUHHP". Upon that the person whom Imam Hussain a.s summoned to witness the happening of karbala and tell it to people what Yazid did to us, he called upon them that why do not you go to Imam Hussain a.s and help him instead of sitting here and watching it. They said that we are peaceful persons and we cannot go to war and they called themselves "Sufis". It is due to this that in Ziarat we curse those who "Sit idle and did not acted while there was time" and also those who fight against Imam Hussain a.s.

Staying silent in the favor of oppressor, is helping oppressor. And staying silent in the favor of Oppressed is helping the oppressed.

 

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2 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Note: I am talking about Shia Sufi's. Like Shahbaz Qaladar, Bullay Shah etc.

They were Arif and not Sufis. They taught us the Marifat of Allah AWJ.

Difference between Sufi and Arif is that Sufi apply limits to God and Arif expounds the greatness of God and yet says that I am unable to understand your absolute truth. 

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3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Staying silent in the favor of oppressor, is helping oppressor. And staying silent in the favor of Oppressed is helping the oppressed.

You are right, brother.

But what I was saying was that we Shias do sometimes get unnecessarily provocative.

On the other hand, Sufis generally tend to avoid confrontation..

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On 5/17/2017 at 2:07 AM, Salsabeel said:

I don't remember exactly its wordings but do remember that someone quoted me a hadith in which it is said that they (sufi) follow the batin of Islam and Shariah is the zahir of Islam. Brother @Qa'im is once again requested to verify if there is any such hadith present in our books as well as its grading (if present).

Note: I am talking about Shia Sufi's. Like Shahbaz Qaladar, Bullay Shah etc.

Sofism or irfan is the core of Islam. It is turning heart away from everything and focusing towards Allah jj.

In Shia Islam it is known by suluk. It teaches how to follow Shariah in letter and sprit. Most ofnarrations from Ahlebayat as and duas from Ahlebayat as just highlight it.

If you are want know more about it you can get from  "kernels of kernel "by ayatollah Mohhamad Hussain Tabatabaie or even you can learn it from Adabus salat by imam Khomeini. It is full of irfani understanding of Islam. 

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Just now, baqar said:

You are right, brother.

But what I was saying was that we Shias do sometimes get unnecessarily provocative.

On the other hand, Sufis generally tend to avoid confrontation..

This is not called provocation, it is called bravery. I consider Sufis not peaceful but weak and afraid to complain about bad things. 

If Lal Qalandar Shahbaz, Shah Abdul Latif Bhittai and Baba Bulley Shah were Sufis, they would not have cursed the wrong ones and encouraged and praised right ones. They were also very courageous saying wrong as wrong, though their time was much difficult than ours, so would they be called provocative or brave ? 

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Just now, baqar said:

Brother, I think we are on different wave-lengths.

So I will leave the thread now.

Best Wishes

Yeah brother, if you could have implied towards any terrorist activity or any burning of cars and public or private property by Shias, you could have proved right that Shias are provocative.

But we come out when our people are murdered without any reason while they are going to visit our Imams and I do not think that calling this would be called provocation. 

God bless you.

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10 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

They were Arif and not Sufis. They taught us the Marifat of Allah AWJ.

Difference between Sufi and Arif is that Sufi apply limits to God and Arif expounds the greatness of God and yet says that I am unable to understand your absolute truth. 

Thanks for your comment, they were Aarif but their overall teachings are quite similar to Sufi's. Both have criticized the Mullah's & Mullahism. I remember Bullay Shah even said that "Namaz parhan kam zanana" (Offering prayers is female job) and "Bahron paak ketay ki howay, jay andre rahi paleeti" (external cleanliness through ablution worth nothing if inner is unclean/stinking).

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Just now, Salsabeel said:

Thanks for your comment, they were Aarif but their overall teachings are quite similar to Sufi's. Both have criticized the Mullah's & Mullahism. I remember Bullay Shah even said that "Namaz parhan kam zanana" (Offering prayers is female job) and "Bahron paak ketay ki howay, jay andre rahi paleeti" (external cleanliness through ablution worth nothing if inner is unclean/stinking).

Yeah, because their message was similar to Quran and that is why Shah Abdul Latif Bhittai said: "The things which you read in my words and consider it as poetry are actually message of Quran". So, like Sufis took Quran wrong and said: "Ina Lilah wa ina Alaih rajoon" means we will go to God and become part of him in essence that is what Sikhism leader "Guru Nanak" said and he was disciple of Sufisim. 

So, Sufis are like this anything whose outer seems according to their beliefs, they take it as their saints and do not delve deeper into "it's meanings". 

Yes, they have always talked against Mulla and Mullahiat but those Mullas and Molvis who do not understand Quran and yet derive wrong things and make themselves as sinners. Such as cutting hands because of theft but Islam says that "Investigate" what caused him to steal ? "Was he hungry", "Was he forced", "Was he compelled". 

So, Sachal Sarmast says to both those who take outward and not inward both among Sufis and Mullahs: "They do not out of pure love, learn the lesson, they do not write the words on heart, instead are wasting their time by pouring ink on the papers". 

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Just now, Sindbad05 said:

Namaz parhan kam zanana" (Offering prayers is female job) and "Bahron paak ketay ki howay, jay andre rahi paleeti" (external cleanliness through ablution worth nothing if inner is unclean/stinking).

Baba Bulleh shah meant that "Those who pray Nimaz without understanding the essence of prayer are weak (Zanana = weak physically). What will you get by showing outwardly that you are pious and strong but inside you are weak and do not submit to Allah AWJ in reality and do ill-deeds in absence and presence of people". 

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@Salsabeel

You would see that on account of misunderstanding, the people who misunderstood the message of these great men will never pray and never fast because they did not delved deeper. While these great men did not say anything like that, it is only that what they said overtook their brains and they did not catch meaning of what they said.

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8 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Baba Bulleh shah meant that "Those who pray Nimaz without understanding the essence of prayer are weak (Zanana = weak physically). What will you get by showing outwardly that you are pious and strong but inside you are weak and do not submit to Allah AWJ in reality and do ill-deeds in absence and presence of people". 

:) I don't understand Siraikee language too much, may be that's why I misunderstood him. I have just listened his kalam via Abida Perveen.

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1 minute ago, Salsabeel said:

:) I don't understand Siraikee language too much, may be that's why I misunderstood him. I have just listened his kalam via Abida Perveen.

We all have misunderstood them, either due to language barrier or due to our weaker intellectual approach. Thanks God, I know now and I beseech Allah AWJ to help me understand them further. 

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