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MuslimahAK

Cursing the Cursed Ones

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Bismillah ir Arahman ir Rahim

Salamu Alaikum!

***Note: I'm still very new to Ahlul Bayt***

So I have been seeing issues of cursing the cursed ones and seeing it crossover with unity and tolerance. I know it seems weird.

I have come across two main ideas about this:

1. Some, like Sheikh Yassir al-Habib - I hope I wrote his name correctly. But some like him point out how in the Qu'ran other Prophets of Allah were tested with disbelieving wives, traitors, hypocrites, etc. And sees no reason to not curse and insult openly.

2. Another line of thinking I have found is more like Dr. Syad Ammar Nakshawani (not sure if I wrote that right either). His line and others more like him, is not betray your beliefs, but to still be respectful and tolerant of others. That extra care like this helps with unity and to not be the cause of Shi'a deaths all over the world.

I am still so new to this so its a bit overwhelming and incredibly confusing me, lols.

I am curious about others' opinions on this.

Shukran.

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Ignore what Yassir Habib and his minions say, and follow what our great marjas say on this issue. Most of our marjas tell us to be respectful to our brothers and sisters from different faiths, and not publicly curse the names of the enemies of the Ahlulbayt. Unity between the Muslims is important and we must be standing together because right now you have countries like USA and Israel trying hard to make us turn on each other and kill one another. 

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On 5/12/2017 at 3:24 AM, MuslimahAK said:

I am curious about others' opinions on this.

There are better things to do in life than just sit around cursing people.

There is cursing for some people Ziarat e Ashura.

But that does not mean that we must curse people all the time.

If you wish to express your displeasure with someone, it is better to do so with sound arguments than with bad words.

Remember, the Quran insists on the use of GOOD words with EVERYONE.

Cursing out of place is not a good thing to do.  

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On 5/12/2017 at 3:24 AM, MuslimahAK said:

Another line of thinking I have found is more like Dr. Syad Ammar Nakshawani (not sure if I wrote that right either). His line and others more like him, is not betray your beliefs, but to still be respectful and tolerant of others. That extra care like this helps with unity and to not be the cause of Shi'a deaths all over the world.

Sister, cursing in Islam means saying that "May Allah not have mercy upon them" which we pronounce by "Lanat".

Dr. Ammar Nakhswani is right in what he says about tolerance, the correct method to curse is not to take the names of enemies of Ahlebait and say that "Curse be upon enemies of Ahlebait a.s" because in this way those of our sunni brothers who have issues over our "Tabara" will not be able to get angry as to they will also say the same and our objective of showing "Tabara" would be fulfilled too and unity among Muslims could be maintained. 

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"Cursing" of historical personalities must be done only for the pleasure of God, and nothing else. If it's because of ego, sectarianism, partisanship, anger, aggression, or other motivations -- then it breeds nothing but fitnah. You always wonder how much these factors play into it.

People may claim purity of intention -- but most of us aren't fully in control of ourselves, and we lash out at people/things around us all the time. It's easy to translate that same aggression onto kings a millennia ago, because "busting others" can make one feel good. 

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On 5/12/2017 at 3:35 PM, MuslimahAK said:

What are Marjas?

And who is Ziarat e Ahsura?

What is Tabara?

A marja` is a scholar whom people follow who issues rulings on fiqh topics.

Ziyarat `Ashura' is a du`a' that is recited which counts as a visitation of the martyrs of Karbala'. In contains curses of some by name and others anonymously.

Tabarra' means "dissociation", as it refers to the act of dissociating oneself from the enemies of Ahl al-Bayt.

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yassir al habab is not a follower of Ahlul Bayt(as), he does not follow their sunnah in terms of dealing with ones enemies. He is paid to cause fitnah and further divide the already divided ummah making us even weaker.

For example, during the battle of the camel where Imam Ali(as) and his forces fought against Aisha and her forces, never did the Imam curse her openly or treat her disrespectfully and I think Imam Ali(as) had a deeper understanding of Aishas true personality than any of us here, or yassir al habab for that matter.

If you love Ahlul Bayt(as), as a shia should, then we need to follow their sunnah to the best of our abilities.

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For the Shias, who think Cursing is a SIN.

 وہ شیعہ حضرات جو لعنت کرنے کو گناہ سمجھتے ہیں 

English - عربي - فارسي - اردو

قال رسول اللّه (ص): من تاثم أن يلعن من يلعنه الله فعليه لعنة الله

The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:" He who prevents himself from damning who is damned by Allah, considering it a sin shall have the damnation of Allah upon him

رسول اللہ (ص): جو شخص اس پر لعنت کرنا گناہ سمجھے جس پر اللہ کی لعنت ہو، اس پر اللہ کی لعنت ہے

رسول خدا صلى الله عليه وآله: كسی كه احساس گناه كند از لعن كردن شخصی كه خدا او را لعنت كرده، پس لعنت خدا بر او باد

بحارالانوار، مجلد2، صفحة 202

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13 hours ago, IbnSina said:

yassir al habab is not a follower of Ahlul Bayt(as), he does not follow their sunnah in terms of dealing with ones enemies. He is paid to cause fitnah and further divide the already divided ummah making us even weaker.

For example, during the battle of the camel where Imam Ali(as) and his forces fought against Aisha and her forces, never did the Imam curse her openly or treat her disrespectfully and I think Imam Ali(as) had a deeper understanding of Aishas true personality than any of us here, or yassir al habab for that matter.

If you love Ahlul Bayt(as), as a shia should, then we need to follow their sunnah to the best of our abilities.

Yasser Al Habib is a follower of Ahlulbayt a.s, he follows their sunnah and understands what taqqiyah is. He doesn't apply taqqiyah all the time because it is prohibited to practice it in every case.

If you think that the killings of Shias is made because of cursing the cursed ones then you're wrong. If you think that not cursing the enemies of Ahlulbayt a.s will save our lives then you're wrong again.

As for the doctrine of Unity this fatwa of Ayatollah Sayed Sadiq Shirazi (may Allāh swt lengthen his life):

"Islamic unity and Muslim brotherhood is only possible under the Wilayah (Authority) of Imam Ali (a.s) and Ahlulbayt (a.s). Other than that, it is all a political scam.  We Shia Muslims don't only differ with other sects in prayer, we rather differ in the pillars of Islam as well.  Islamic unity is only valid if all Muslims embrace the faith of Ahlulbayt (a.s)."

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23 minutes ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Yasser Al Habib is a follower of Ahlulbayt a.s, he follows their sunnah and understands what taqqiyah is. He doesn't apply taqqiyah all the time because it is prohibited to practice it in every case.

If you think that the killings of Shias is made because of cursing the cursed ones then you're wrong. If you think that not cursing the enemies of Ahlulbayt a.s will save our lives then you're wrong again.

As for the doctrine of Unity this fatwa of Ayatollah Sayed Sadiq Shirazi (may Allāh swt lengthen his life):

"Islamic unity and Muslim brotherhood is only possible under the Wilayah (Authority) of Imam Ali (a.s) and Ahlulbayt (a.s). Other than that, it is all a political scam.  We Shia Muslims don't only differ with other sects in prayer, we rather differ in the pillars of Islam as well.  Islamic unity is only valid if all Muslims embrace the faith of Ahlulbayt (a.s)."

Yasser does not carry discussions regarding Aisha, the way Imam Ali(as) did. I put my trust in Imam Alis(as) akhlaq before I put it in yasser al habibs. Nor do I have full trust in the level of knowledge that yasser has, as there are numerous well known and respected scholars and sheikhs who refute the way that yasser handles this issue.

I have not said anything regarding the killings of shias, shias will always be oppressed, cursing or not cursing, thats the nature of sticking to truth in dunya until our Imam ajf returns.

As I said brother: If you love Ahlul Bayt(as), as a shia should, then we need to follow their sunnah to the best of our abilities.

We need to study their sunnah then.

For example, some times in history an Imam would even help their oppressor when they were in need.

Did they believe that the oppressor would change and become better? I do not think so, but some times you do not behave in a way to affect the counter person, but to affect the third person watching the two of you in your conflict.

The way of Ahlul Bayt(as) is to my understanding a path of wisdom and intelligence, which is not always the same as open and loud hatred, although some times it is important to define your enemies but the way in which you do so is based on case to case scenarios which again is based on what you wish to achieve.

For example brother, you used to be a sunni before you became a shia, what was your opinions of shias before you became one? Maybe you changed from one extreme to the other?

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On 5/12/2017 at 11:24 PM, IbnSina said:

yassir al habab is not a follower of Ahlul Bayt(as), he does not follow their sunnah in terms of dealing with ones enemies. He is paid to cause fitnah and further divide the already divided ummah making us even weaker.

For example, during the battle of the camel where Imam Ali(as) and his forces fought against Aisha and her forces, never did the Imam curse her openly or treat her disrespectfully and I think Imam Ali(as) had a deeper understanding of Aishas true personality than any of us here, or yassir al habab for that matter.

If you love Ahlul Bayt(as), as a shia should, then we need to follow their sunnah to the best of our abilities.

As for your last point, are you claiming that imam Ali a.s never cursed Aisha, or even if he a.s didn't, are you stating that other imams a.s or the prophet s.a.a didn't?

Holy Prophet(SAWA):
I have cursed 7 types of people . Out of them one is that person who has harassed my Progeny(AhlulBayt).
Ref : Khisaal.
 
Sk Kulaini and Sk Tusi has narrated from authentic sources that: 
Imam Sadiq(AS) used to curse Abubakr, Umar, Usman , Muawiya ,Aisha,, Hafsa and Hind , mother of Hakam and Ummul Hakam , sister of Muawiya.
 

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On 5/12/2017 at 3:50 PM, Qa'im said:

Tabarra' means "dissociation", as it refers to the act of dissociating oneself from the enemies of Ahl al-Bayt.

Shouldn't that be from the enemies of Allah, who in particular may be enemies of the ahl al-bayt?

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The Imams a.s. are first and foremost the embodiment of the Sunnah of the Messenger s.a.w.a.s.

And as the Messenger s.a.w.a.s. never cursed anyone I can not believe that the Imams a.s. would invent something new.

The ones who started to curse were Muawiya and his successors.

Let's please keep it like that.

Edited by Faruk

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On 5/14/2017 at 5:04 AM, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

As for your last point, are you claiming that imam Ali a.s never cursed Aisha, or even if he a.s didn't, are you stating that other imams a.s or the prophet s.a.a didn't?

Holy Prophet(SAWA):
I have cursed 7 types of people . Out of them one is that person who has harassed my Progeny(AhlulBayt).
Ref : Khisaal.
 
Sk Kulaini and Sk Tusi has narrated from authentic sources that: 
Imam Sadiq(AS) used to curse Abubakr, Umar, Usman , Muawiya ,Aisha,, Hafsa and Hind , mother of Hakam and Ummul Hakam , sister of Muawiya.
 

Haydar Husayn was right about you.

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1 hour ago, Qa'im said:

I suppose that depends on whether Allah can hate someone whom the Ahl al-Bayt don't hate, or the Ahl al-Bayt can hate someone whom Allah does not hate. To me, dissociation from the enemies of Ahl al-Bayt and the enemies of Allah is the same thing.

There are also those who were enemies of Allah, such as Firawn, who were not enemies of the ahl al-bayt as such, simply because they weren't around then. It doesn't mean the ahl al-bayt don't hate Firawn, but he was not an enemy of theirs in any meaningful sense of the word (and certainly not in the sense that it is usually understood).

So even though the set of enemies of the ahl al-bayt is contained in that of the enemies of Allah, they are not identical, and so it would make more sense to put the emphasis on being an enemy of Allah. It's not a big deal, I know, but the difference in emphasis still seems important to me.

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3 hours ago, MuslimahAK said:

Shukran for all the replies.

It still sounds a bit of a complicated issue. More than I thought it was. Shukran all the same.

Salaam sister,

To put it simply, everything from Yasir Al-Habib is wrong even the things he does right.

Cursing should be limited to the way it is done in the Quran.

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@SheikhAlHabib'fan ShiaChat has a rule against posting the same content in more than one topic. If you continue to do this, you will be given a warning. At the 3rd warning you will automatically be suspended from the site for a minimum of 12 hours. 

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On 5/13/2017 at 0:27 PM, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

For the Shias, who think Cursing is a SIN.

 وہ شیعہ حضرات جو لعنت کرنے کو گناہ سمجھتے ہیں 

English - عربي - فارسي - اردو

قال رسول اللّه (ص): من تاثم أن يلعن من يلعنه الله فعليه لعنة الله

The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:" He who prevents himself from damning who is damned by Allah, considering it a sin shall have the damnation of Allah upon him

رسول اللہ (ص): جو شخص اس پر لعنت کرنا گناہ سمجھے جس پر اللہ کی لعنت ہو، اس پر اللہ کی لعنت ہے

رسول خدا صلى الله عليه وآله: كسی كه احساس گناه كند از لعن كردن شخصی كه خدا او را لعنت كرده، پس لعنت خدا بر او باد

بحارالانوار، مجلد2، صفحة 202

that hadith would directly contradict this verse, therefore it can't be true in my opinion:

So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

فَبِمَا نَقْضِهِم مِّيثَاقَهُمْ لَعَنَّاهُمْ وَجَعَلْنَا قُلُوبَهُمْ قَاسِيَةً ۖ يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَن مَّوَاضِعِهِ ۙ وَنَسُوا حَظًّا مِّمَّا ذُكِّرُوا بِهِ ۚ وَلَا تَزَالُ تَطَّلِعُ عَلَىٰ خَائِنَةٍ مِّنْهُمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا مِّنْهُمْ ۖ فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَاصْفَحْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ - 5:13

 

..... because , according to your hadith, following Allah's clear command of pardoning and overlooking people who are cursed by Allah would get me damned by Him. Obviously Allah would not curse me for following his command. Actually the opposite would be true. Therefore your hadith can't be right!

Additionally, this verse can even be used to show what the real sunnah is in this matter. One can use it as an example to demonstrate that cursing isn't something desirable for us humans.

 

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7 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

@SheikhAlHabib'fan ShiaChat has a rule against posting the same content in more than one topic. If you continue to do this, you will be given a warning. At the 3rd warning you will automatically be suspended from the site for a minimum of 12 hours. 

Is there a reason my content wasn't approved? I thought it was just not seen and making it seen by repeating to a moderator would be more helpful.

@SheikhAlHabib'fan Mod Note: Mods can see your posts. Do not copy and paste the same posts over and over. Also do not post the same thing in another topic. That would be considered spamming. 

Edited by Hameedeh
To add the Mod Note.

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7 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

that hadith would directly contradict this verse, therefore it can't be true in my opinion:

So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

فَبِمَا نَقْضِهِم مِّيثَاقَهُمْ لَعَنَّاهُمْ وَجَعَلْنَا قُلُوبَهُمْ قَاسِيَةً ۖ يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَن مَّوَاضِعِهِ ۙ وَنَسُوا حَظًّا مِّمَّا ذُكِّرُوا بِهِ ۚ وَلَا تَزَالُ تَطَّلِعُ عَلَىٰ خَائِنَةٍ مِّنْهُمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا مِّنْهُمْ ۖ فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَاصْفَحْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ - 5:13

 

..... because , according to your hadith, following Allah's clear command of pardoning and overlooking people who are cursed by Allah would get me damned by Him. Obviously Allah would not curse me for following his command. Actually the opposite would be true. Therefore your hadith can't be right!

Additionally, this verse can even be used to show what the real sunnah is in this matter. One can use it as an example to demonstrate that cursing isn't something desirable for us humans.

 

How do you know that pardoning isn't applied to the ones who "observe deceit amongst them" rather than to "their breaking of the covenant" and the cursed ones in that context? Please don't misinterpret the verse! It's pretty clear who you may pardon and who is cursed in that context.

As for cursing being desirable about humans, doesn't Allāh swt also say:

Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not. (2:216)

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On 5/16/2017 at 0:43 AM, MuslimahAK said:

Shukran for all the replies.

It still sounds a bit of a complicated issue. More than I thought it was. Shukran all the same.

Since our scholars (ha) and our Imams (as) have to permitted tabarra, then I don't see how that's a complicated issue, but it's as clear as water that cursing the enemies of Ahlulbayt (as) is halal and doing it results a great sawap.

I understand that the Anti-Shirazi and Anti-Sheikh Al Habib propaganda is being used everywhere, but please remember what Allāh has said:

"The truth is from your Lord, so never be among the doubters." (2:147)

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6 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

How do you know that pardoning isn't applied to the ones who "observe deceit amongst them" rather than to "their breaking of the covenant" and the cursed ones in that context?

because there is only talk of one group here. That is why in English it is always translated to "them", without introducing a new group:

فَبِمَا نَقْضِهِم مِّيثَاقَهُمْ لَعَنَّاهُمْ وَجَعَلْنَا قُلُوبَهُمْ قَاسِيَةً ۖ يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَن مَّوَاضِعِهِ ۙ وَنَسُوا حَظًّا مِّمَّا ذُكِّرُوا بِهِ ۚ وَلَا تَزَالُ تَطَّلِعُ عَلَىٰ خَائِنَةٍ مِّنْهُمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا مِّنْهُمْ ۖ فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَاصْفَحْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ - 5:13

As you can see it is very clear that the ones "observing deceit" are among them. The underlined word above is "of them", and this word is in direct relation to the people discussed in the first part.

6 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Please don't misinterpret the verse! It's pretty clear who you may pardon and who is cursed in that context.

ironic that you tell me not to misinterpret! Please give evidence before coming up with conclusions!

The first underlined 'minhom' is 100% referring to the cursed group.

I hope that if you are not convinced, that you ask people who know Arabic and ask them to explain this obvious point to you. And please refrain from coming up with interpretations if you don't understand what is written yourself! T

 

6 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not. (2:216)

this has nothing to do with cursing. Yet my verse is talking directly about cursing, just like this one too ..

وَيَدْعُ الْإِنسَانُ بِالشَّرِّ دُعَاءَهُ بِالْخَيْرِ ۖ وَكَانَ الْإِنسَانُ عَجُولًا - 17:11

And man supplicates for evil as he supplicates for good, and man is ever hasty.

 

So, yet another verse discouraging cursing. Do you have a single verse directly encouraging it? I don't think so! And please admit that you are wrong about your interpretation above, or prove me wrong. This is a serious issue!

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On 5/14/2017 at 1:29 PM, Hassan- said:

Haydar Husayn was right about you.

This is how you try to demoralize me by using foolish language towards me? So you don't have any answer to my arguments?

I'd like to explain you that I wasn't zealous at all when I became a Shia, I didn't become a Shia because of sheikh Yasser Al Habib's videos, that would be immature and laughable... I started favoriting Iran and was a big fan (and still am on some topics developed by) of Khomeini. 

 Ayatollah Khomeini himself had such opinions about sunnis that someone could easily mistake him for Ayatollah Sayed Muhammad Shirazi (r), claims such as:

What is meant by the term 'momin' i.e believer, is Shia Ithna Ash'ari (Twelvers) only. As for the narrations which are applicable on the 'momin', so they are meant to be for the Imami shias only. Therefore, the hadith which mention 'your brother' (for example hadith on backbiting being akin to eating the meat of one's brother) do not include the non-shias (sunnis etc) for there is no brotherhood at all between us Imami shias and the non-Shias. In fact, it is absolutely obligatory to do Tabarrah from them, their schools of thought and their leading scholars, based upon our hadith which deem it (absolute Tabarra from non shias) to be the core of our religion. So whenever brotherhood is implied in religious interpretations, it must be kept in mind that non-shias are by no means our brothers.

(Source: Al-Makasib Al-Moharramah. Volume 1, Page 378-379.)

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2 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

This is how you try to demoralize me by using foolish language towards me? So you don't have any answer to my arguments?

I'd like to explain you that I wasn't zealous at all when I became a Shia, I didn't become a Shia because of sheikh Yasser Al Habib's videos, that would be immature and laughable... I started favoriting Iran and was a big fan (and still am on some topics developed by) of Khomeini. 

 Ayatollah Khomeini himself had such opinions about sunnis that someone could easily mistake him for Ayatollah Sayed Muhammad Shirazi (r), claims such as:

What is meant by the term 'momin' i.e believer, is Shia Ithna Ash'ari (Twelvers) only. As for the narrations which are applicable on the 'momin', so they are meant to be for the Imami shias only. Therefore, the hadith which mention 'your brother' (for example hadith on backbiting being akin to eating the meat of one's brother) do not include the non-shias (sunnis etc) for there is no brotherhood at all between us Imami shias and the non-Shias. In fact, it is absolutely obligatory to do Tabarrah from them, their schools of thought and their leading scholars, based upon our hadith which deem it (absolute Tabarra from non shias) to be the core of our religion. So whenever brotherhood is implied in religious interpretations, it must be kept in mind that non-shias are by no means our brothers.

(Source: Al-Makasib Al-Moharramah. Volume 1, Page 378-379.)

lol after more than one month now you reply to me? Listen brother, I don't want to get into an argument with you about this issue, it won't benefit the both of us. You follow who you want, and I'll follow who I want.

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@SheikhAlHabib'fan, you did not get back to me concerning your interpretation of the quran that you brought without any evidence or reasoning above. Please kindly let us get to the bottom of this, because coming up with wrong translations/interpretations is a serious issue.

Secondly, if you and your masters believe that it's ok to hate, and keep insulting the enemies among the prophet's wives, then you are going against the quran as well:

 

يا أيها الذين آمنوا إن من أزواجكم وأولادكم عدوّا لكم فاحذروهم و إن تعفوا وتصفحوا وتغفروا فإن الله غفور رحيم

O you who have believed, indeed, among your wives and your children are enemies to you, so beware of them. But if you pardon and overlook and forgive - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 64:14

 

Allah addresses all momineen, and practically orders us to pardon, overlook and forgive them. Does this resonate with hate speech and grudges? 

Does it sound like we should curse the enemies of the momins, who are obviously people cursed by Allah?

This is proof again that Allah does not encourage us to curse those who are bad people, but encourages forgiveness and pardon. We are more like the Christians than most are aware of. Forgiving our enemies is part of Islam.

 

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On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 5:40 PM, 313 Seeker said:

that hadith would directly contradict this verse, therefore it can't be true in my opinion:

So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

فَبِمَا نَقْضِهِم مِّيثَاقَهُمْ لَعَنَّاهُمْ وَجَعَلْنَا قُلُوبَهُمْ قَاسِيَةً ۖ يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَن مَّوَاضِعِهِ ۙ وَنَسُوا حَظًّا مِّمَّا ذُكِّرُوا بِهِ ۚ وَلَا تَزَالُ تَطَّلِعُ عَلَىٰ خَائِنَةٍ مِّنْهُمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا مِّنْهُمْ ۖ فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَاصْفَحْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ - 5:13

 

..... because , according to your hadith, following Allah's clear command of pardoning and overlooking people who are cursed by Allah would get me damned by Him. Obviously Allah would not curse me for following his command. Actually the opposite would be true. Therefore your hadith can't be right!

Additionally, this verse can even be used to show what the real sunnah is in this matter. One can use it as an example to demonstrate that cursing isn't something desirable for us humans.

 

Wrong. Another verse you misunderstood and reference for your certain agenda bypassing comparing the verse to other verses.

البقرة 161

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَمَاتُوا وَهُمْ كُفَّارٌ أُولَئِكَ عَلَيْهِمْ لَعْنَةُ اللّهِ وَالْمَلآئِكَةِ وَالنَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ

صدق الله العلي العظيم

 

ال عمران 87

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 كَيْفَ يَهْدِي اللَّـهُ قَوْمًا كَفَرُوا بَعْدَ إِيمَانِهِمْ وَشَهِدُوا أَنَّ الرَّسُولَ حَقٌّ وَجَاءَهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ ۚ وَاللَّـهُ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ ﴿٨٦ أُولَـٰئِكَ جَزَاؤُهُمْ أَنَّ عَلَيْهِمْ لَعْنَةَ اللَّـهِ وَالْمَلَائِكَةِ وَالنَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ ﴿٨٧ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا لَا يُخَفَّفُ عَنْهُمُ الْعَذَابُ وَلَا هُمْ يُنظَرُونَ ﴿٨٨ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ تَابُوا مِن بَعْدِ ذَٰلِكَ وَأَصْلَحُوا فَإِنَّ اللَّـهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ ﴿٨٩ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بَعْدَ إِيمَانِهِمْ ثُمَّ ازْدَادُوا كُفْرًا لَّن تُقْبَلَ تَوْبَتُهُمْ وَأُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الضَّالُّونَ

صدق الله العلي العظيم

p.s. learn the difference between la'na (لعنة) and Curse/cuss/insults.

P.S Allah subhanah wa ta3ala does indeed, encourage forgiveness. That I agree with you on. But there are certain people who have not, are not, and will not be forgiven. Matter of fact, they not only have Allah's az wajal curse on them, but the angels and ALL people as well.

 

Edited by First Responder
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8 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

@SheikhAlHabib'fan, you did not get back to me concerning your interpretation of the quran that you brought without any evidence or reasoning above. Please kindly let us get to the bottom of this, because coming up with wrong translations/interpretations is a serious issue.

Secondly, if you and your masters believe that it's ok to hate, and keep insulting the enemies among the prophet's wives, then you are going against the quran as well:

 

يا أيها الذين آمنوا إن من أزواجكم وأولادكم عدوّا لكم فاحذروهم و إن تعفوا وتصفحوا وتغفروا فإن الله غفور رحيم

O you who have believed, indeed, among your wives and your children are enemies to you, so beware of them. But if you pardon and overlook and forgive - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 64:14

 

Allah addresses all momineen, and practically orders us to pardon, overlook and forgive them. Does this resonate with hate speech and grudges? 

Does it sound like we should curse the enemies of the momins, who are obviously people cursed by Allah?

This is proof again that Allah does not encourage us to curse those who are bad people, but encourages forgiveness and pardon. We are more like the Christians than most are aware of. Forgiving our enemies is part of Islam.

 

Salam,

I saw that the first point was answered by @First Responder. As for the second point that you made from the verse:

O you who have believed, indeed, among your wives and your children are enemies to you, so beware of them. But if you pardon and overlook and forgive - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 64:14

Firstly the verse is a warning that implies to alive betraying wives and children who can be forgiven and pardoned by their husband and father. So for instance, during the time Aisha was alive the prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå could have pardoned her and Allāh ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì forgive her do to her repentance to them for her mistakes. 

Finally It doesn't say the cursed (whom la'na of Allāh ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is upon them (wives and children)) can be pardoned, it says enemies. How does this verse oppose the Hadith, and how is it applied to us as a recommendation to not cursing the wives of the prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå?

Someone could as well argue that the verse only applies to our wives and children not to others' wives and children...

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On 5/13/2017 at 4:16 PM, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Yasser Al Habib is a follower of Ahlulbayt a.s, he follows their sunnah and understands what taqqiyah is. He doesn't apply taqqiyah all the time because it is prohibited to practice it in every case.

If you think that the killings of Shias is made because of cursing the cursed ones then you're wrong. If you think that not cursing the enemies of Ahlulbayt a.s will save our lives then you're wrong again.

As for the doctrine of Unity this fatwa of Ayatollah Sayed Sadiq Shirazi (may Allāh swt lengthen his life):

"Islamic unity and Muslim brotherhood is only possible under the Wilayah (Authority) of Imam Ali (a.s) and Ahlulbayt (a.s). Other than that, it is all a political scam.  We Shia Muslims don't only differ with other sects in prayer, we rather differ in the pillars of Islam as well.  Islamic unity is only valid if all Muslims embrace the faith of Ahlulbayt (a.s)."

Whom we need to follow in case of opposite views on any matter. I have great respect for Syed Sadiq Shirazi but Imam Ali as himself tried to unite muslim of all thoughts. He continued providing support and help to all muslim irrespective of his friends or enemies. 

That is true teachings of Imam as.

Imam Ali as fought only with those who didn't left any space for discussion and debates i.e. Kharijites, Muawiya etc as these groups were interested only in war rather in peace. 

 

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On 6/29/2017 at 2:30 AM, haidermpr said:

Whom we need to follow in case of opposite views on any matter. I have great respect for Syed Sadiq Shirazi but Imam Ali as himself tried to unite muslim of all thoughts. He continued providing support and help to all muslim irrespective of his friends or enemies. 

That is true teachings of Imam as.

Imam Ali as fought only with those who didn't left any space for discussion and debates i.e. Kharijites, Muawiya etc as these groups were interested only in war rather in peace. 

During the time of Imam Ali (as) there wasn't such a separation between Muslim thought as it is now.

Imam Ali (as) let people such as Aisha and Umar alive for the sake of guidance like the prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå let the rulers of Mecca.

I agree with being tolerant and peaceful towards sunnis, however I wasn't arguing about that. Some Shias try to use the argument of unity to restrict us from performing certain acts that are part of Shia belief such as tabarra.

Imam Ali (as) himself said:

"Anyone who loves our enemy is our killer."
(Source: Tafseere Furat, page 39)
 
The idea of a unity with sunnis is itself impossible for the reasons stated above by Grand Ayatollah Sayed Sadiq Shirazi (ha).

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4 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Firstly the verse is a warning that implies to alive betraying wives and children

how do you come to this conclusion?

 

4 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Finally It doesn't say the cursed (whom la'na of Allāh ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is upon them (wives and children)) can be pardoned, it says enemies.

so the enemies of mumineen are not cursed? Is it possible to be an enemy of Islam and not be cursed by Allah? 

4 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Someone could as well argue that the verse only applies to our wives and children not to others' wives and children...

really? how? based on what could one come up with such a conclusion? 

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