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Abu Hadi

Homosexuality and Islam FAQ

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Depends on what you mean by abuse and discriminate. Certainly the treatment of a fasiq is not the same treatment at that of a adil. For example, when it comes to testimony for divorce, sighting of the moon, and many other testimonies, the testimony of a fasiq is not taken. Also, one shouldn't pray behind a fasiq.

As for abuse, if you mean that the people shouldn't try to tell him what he is doing is wrong then you are wrong too. 

Edited by E.L King

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Abuse means beating, threatening them with bodily harm, defrauding them, stealing from them, etc. Doing something to them which will harm them in a real way. Repeatedly telling them is not abuse. 

Also, in the Islamic definition fasiq does not translate as 'sinner'. If fasiq was 'sinner', then we are all fasiq because all of us have committed sins. Fasiq, there is no word to word translation, but it basically means someone who does a sin openly and denies the fact that it is a sin and doesn't ask Allah(s.w.a) for forgiveness for the sin. 

 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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50 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

Abuse means beating, threatening them with bodily harm, defrauding them, stealing from them, etc. Doing something to them which will harm them in a real way. Repeatedly telling them is not abuse. 

Also, in the Islamic definition fasiq does not translate as 'sinner'. If fasiq was 'sinner', then we are all fasiq because all of us have committed sins. Fasiq, there is no word to word translation, but it basically means someone who does a sin openly and denies the fact that it is a sin and doesn't ask Allah(s.w.a) for forgiveness for the sin. 

 

 

If you know somebody is a sinner (say you caught him with your eye), you can't take his testimony for the aforementioned stuff. Doesn't mean you can expose his sin, you can keep it to yourself, but be wary of those rulings because they still apply.

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1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

Abuse means beating, threatening them with bodily harm, defrauding them, stealing from them, etc. Doing something to them which will harm them in a real way. Repeatedly telling them is not abuse. 

Also, in the Islamic definition fasiq does not translate as 'sinner'. If fasiq was 'sinner', then we are all fasiq because all of us have committed sins. Fasiq, there is no word to word translation, but it basically means someone who does a sin openly and denies the fact that it is a sin and doesn't ask Allah(s.w.a) for forgiveness for the sin. 

 

 

Verbal harassment is abusive and can cause a lot of harm and it does affect people in a "real" way.  Teen suicides due to bullying are usually due to verbal abuse (Also, gay youth are 4 times more likely to commit suicide than other youth).  Most husband abuse is verbal based.  Verbal abuse is very powerful and very real.

Edited by forte
Found a piece of info

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7 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Q: Can you be gay and be a muslim / a 

A: It depends on what you mean by 'gay'

If by 'gay' you mean that you are actively in a sexual relationship with someone who is of the same sex / gender AND you are making no attempt to end the relationship and repent to Allah(s.w.a) for your sins, then the answer is no. 

The word 'Islam' means submission to the will of Allah(s.w.a). The word muslim means 'a person who is in the active state of submitting to the will of Allah(s.w.a)' . So by actively and persistently not 'submitting' by refusing to follow the prohibition against being in a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex / gender, you are considered as a fasiq, someone who is actively sinning and not seeking repentance. Someone cannot be 'submitting' and 'not submitting' at the same time. You are either in one state or the other. 

To be a muslim, you must accept that 'There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah'. By logical extension, you must accept the entirety of the message that was brought by Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) including the prohibition against a sexual relationship between those of the same sex / gender, and attempt, however imperfectly, to follow the entirety of this message. To openly reject any part of the Message of Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h), means you reject the entirety of the Message, and are therefore not a muslim, in fact. 

On the other hand, if someone is actively engaged in homosexual acts, but considers this a sin, and is trying to stop the act and repent, then this person is a muslim, and as long as they consider the act as a sin and attempt to stop, then Allah(s.w.a) will give them the strength and the courage, eventually to stop and amend their life. 

 

@Son of Placid

You were mentioning about a "Gay Mayor" who calls himself "Muslim", you should read this. 

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On 5/5/2017 at 7:17 PM, Abu Hadi said:

Q: Does Islam teach that it is the right or duty of a muslim to kill, harm, abuse or discriminate against someone who is homosexual ?

A: No. 

Q: What is the penalty, in an Islamic Government System, for committing a homosexual act. 

A: The penalty is death

This just seems contradictory.

We wont discriminate against you because youre homosexual, but know that if you have a homosexual relationship, legally, we may have you killed. But dont worry, we wont discriminate against you.

I wonder what laws there are that may lead to heterosexual couples being killed. Would they too, be killed if seen having sex?

Edited by iCambrian

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31 minutes ago, iCambrian said:

I wonder what laws there are that may lead to heterosexual couples being killed. Would they too, be killed if seen having sex?

I'm sure if they are in a place where four sane and just people see them in the act, they'd be arrested for indecency in a secular state whether married or not. I don't think the penalty is death, but I also don't think most people want to have intimate relations in public, regardless of their orientation. It actually ends up being irrelevant. 

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1 minute ago, notme said:

I'm sure if they are in a place where four sane and just people see them in the act, they'd be arrested for indecency in a secular state whether married or not. I don't think the penalty is death, but I also don't think most people want to have intimate relations in public, regardless of their orientation. It actually ends up being irrelevant. 

The OP says the penalty is death.  Would a heterosexual couple, also be put to death for the same?

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37 minutes ago, iCambrian said:

This just seems contradictory.

We wont discriminate against you because youre homosexual, but know that if you have a homosexual relationship, legally, we may have you killed. But dont worry, we wont discriminate against you.

How is it contradictory? His point is that nobody should be discriminated based on their inclinations, but obviously if it is proven that they have broken the law, then there are consequences.

37 minutes ago, iCambrian said:

I wonder what laws there are that may lead to heterosexual couples being killed. Would they too, be killed if seen having sex?

Yes, if they were both committing adultery.

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@iCambrian the point is such behavior is not acceptable, however it is also unacceptable to discriminate or abuse a person on the basis of suspicion, and also the Everyman Muslim on the street doesn't have authority to apply legal punishments even if four reliable witnesses saw the act. Like all criminal behaviors, it has to go to court and a judge has the authority to apply, reduce, or suspend the penalty. 

Same would apply to adultery or fornication. Married people in public would have a different penalty but I have no idea what it is. 

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10 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

How is it contradictory? His point is that nobody should be discriminated based on their inclinations, but obviously if it is proven that they have broken the law, then there are consequences.

Yes, if they were both committing adultery.

Ah I see, so it turns to the question of what a legal marriage is.

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3 minutes ago, notme said:

Same would apply to adultery or fornication. Married people in public would have a different penalty but I have no idea what it is. 

Thanks,

it then would be a question of if it is discrimination, if gays cannot be married. We went into this in other topics.  I would say that it is.

The topic has turned from... well heterosexuals would also be killed as well, if they too were not married.  As if the question of if theyre married, is a larger question than if theyre gay.

If there were really equality and were not forms of discrimination, this topic wouldnt even exist to begin with.

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On 2017-5-6 at 2:07 PM, forte said:

Verbal harassment is abusive and can cause a lot of harm and it does affect people in a "real" way.  Teen suicides due to bullying are usually due to verbal abuse (Also, gay youth are 4 times more likely to commit suicide than other youth).  Most husband abuse is verbal based.  Verbal abuse is very powerful and very real.

Too bad Islam commanded us to verbally tell people they are wrong.

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On 5/5/2017 at 7:17 PM, Abu Hadi said:

Q: What is the penalty, in an Islamic Government System, for committing a homosexual act. 

A: The penalty is death, however, in order for the penalty to be carried out, the act must meet ALL  the following conditions. 

1. The act must be eye-witnessed by four just witnesses, people known in the community as being honest and of good character. 

2. The four witnesses must witness the act of penetration. 

3. The act must take place under the jurisdiction of an Islamic Government. 

4. There must be a trial and sentence must be pronounced by an Islamic Jurist (judge)

5. The penalty must be administered by an Islamic Jurist (judge). 

If any of these conditions are not present, the penalty cannot be carried out and the person cannot be harmed in any way. 

If there is an anal test wich show that there were an act of sodomization do we really need all these conditions ? Because when they hang homosexuals in Iran i am not sure they follow all these conditions.

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