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In the Name of God بسم الله

What hadith shows praying hands by side correct?

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2 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

What hadith shows praying hands by side correct? I know in shia ahadeeth it exists but in sunni hadiths what shows this was the correct way.

Sunni Hadith show that the Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) prayed using both methods.

However that doesn't answer the question from the Sunni point of view of which method was the predominant.

However Imam Malik categorically says the correct method is hands by the side and says hand clasping invalidates the Salaat.

Reasoning he uses is that the people of Medina always prayed with their hands open.

By that reasoning hand clasping was a foriegn innovation bought in from outside Medina

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2 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

What hadith shows praying hands by side correct? I know in shia ahadeeth it exists but in sunni hadiths what shows this was the correct way.

Imam Malik, lived in Medina, just like Imam Jaffer as sadiq [as]. This was the city of the prophet [saw]. Other locations , the sunnah had distorted far more , and while it had distorted in Medina, it was less than other places where other sunni imams had come from.

Maliki's pray with arms by the side - watch this:

 

 

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10 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

Sunni Hadith show that the Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) prayed using both methods.

However that doesn't answer the question from the Sunni point of view of which method was the predominant.

However Imam Malik categorically says the correct method is hands by the side and says hand clasping invalidates the Salaat.

Reasoning he uses is that the people of Medina always prayed with their hands open.

By that reasoning hand clasping was a foriegn innovation bought in from outside Medina

What reference do you have to prove that?

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10 hours ago, QuranandAhlulbayt said:

Imam Malik, lived in Medina, just like Imam Jaffer as sadiq [as]. This was the city of the prophet [saw]. Other locations , the sunnah had distorted far more , and while it had distorted in Medina, it was less than other places where other sunni imams had come from.

Maliki's pray with arms by the side - watch this:

 

 

Evidence?

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1 hour ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

What reference do you have to prove that?

Few points.

Everything I have said to you is on the internet. You can check it by searching.

What I have said is not contested by Sunnis. 3/4 of the Sunni Imams allow open arms and Imam Malik says it is compulsory.  

The Ibaadis are desecendents of the Kharijis and represent the first formal split in the Islamic Ummah, they also pray with their hands open.

If you study Evolutionary Sociology and want to try and establish the original you have to look at what is common between the groups.

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1 hour ago, A true Sunni said:

Few points.

Everything I have said to you is on the internet. You can check it by searching.

What I have said is not contested by Sunnis. 3/4 of the Sunni Imams allow open arms and Imam Malik says it is compulsory.  

The Ibaadis are desecendents of the Kharijis and represent the first formal split in the Islamic Ummah, they also pray with their hands open.

If you study Evolutionary Sociology and want to try and establish the original you have to look at what is common between the groups.

I cannot see any of it available on the internet. If you make the claim, the burden of proof is on you.  Also that Ibadi point doesn't hold, Ibadis also don't use a turbah and pray on rugs. By that same logic, shia way of prayer isn't correct because of they don't pray like that.

Edited by Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī
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4 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

I cannot see any of it available on the internet. If you make the claim, the burden of proof is on you.  Also that Ibadi point doesn't hold, Ibadis also don't use a turbah and pray on rugs. By that same logic, shia way of prayer isn't correct because of they don't pray like that.

If you are Sunni then it is up to you to discover the truth of your faith not mine. It is there for a true seeker of knowledge. It is out there if you wish to learn you will. If you wish to debate endlessly with no conclusion then I dont engage in such pointless debates.

I pointed out you to look up the theories on 'evolutionary sociology' it would have taught you a lot and if you had you wouldnt have raised the issue of turbah or rug.

If you looked up the the history of Imam Abu Hanifah , Imam Malik and the history of the evolution of the Sunni schools of thought you would not be asking these questions.

If you wish to declare 'victory' please do so I have no wish to go search for information which I know is out there.

I am tired of spoon feeding people. 

If you are ignorant of what is in your own books and fiqh I cannot be blamed.

I am not a professional debater so I do not keep references however I do know the information is in your books, if you wish to find it you will

You should have said you wished to engage in debate and I would have ignored your posts.

 

 

Edited by A true Sunni
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4 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

If you are Sunni then it is up to you to discover the truth of your faith not mine. It is there for a true seeker of knowledge. It is out there if you wish to learn you will. If you wish to debate endlessly with no conclusion then I dont engage in such pointless debates.

I pointed out you to look up the theories on 'evolutionary sociology' it would have taught you a lot and if you had you wouldnt have raised the issue of turbah or rug.

If you looked up the the history of Imam Abu Hanifah , Imam Malik and the history of the evolution of the Sunni schools of thought you would not be asking these questions.

If you wish to declare 'victory' please do so I have no wish to go search for information which I know is out there.

I am tired of spoon feeding people. 

If you are ignorant of what is in your own books and fiqh I cannot be blamed.

I am not a professional debater so I do not keep references however I do know the information is in your books, if you wish to find it you will

You should have said you wished to engage in debate and I would have ignored your posts.

 

 

You are too emotional. I asked a question, never did I say "i'm here to debate". You made a claim and you are shifting the burden on me as "spoon feeding", that is the whole point of 'burden of proof'.

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59 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

You are too emotional. I asked a question, never did I say "i'm here to debate". You made a claim and you are shifting the burden on me as "spoon feeding", that is the whole point of 'burden of proof'.

Nope as I said if I can find it anyone can. Google search functions are wonderful. In addition if you go to the trouble of searching you will read around the subject and you will have a far better picture of life 1400 years ago rather then the highly sanitised versions of history that you hear from the pulpits.

I am doing you a big favour by not providing you the proof but just telling you its out there. Only by independent research can a person achieve enlightenment.

I am just giving you the headlines for you to start your path to enlightenment.

If you don't want to start the journey that is OK as well. Most people prefer to be spoon fed. I prefer people who want to start a journey but they are few and far between.

It is the difference between a school student and a research student .

 

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If we justify praying with our hands by our side because Malikis Ibaadis, and Zaydis do it then the Tashahhud and Salaam in our prayers should be like all other muslims since there is a concensus in all schools of Sunni Islam, Zaydi Shiite Islam and Ibaadi Islam on how Tashahhud and Salaam should be performed. 

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12 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

Nope as I said if I can find it anyone can. Google search functions are wonderful. In addition if you go to the trouble of searching you will read around the subject and you will have a far better picture of life 1400 years ago rather then the highly sanitised versions of history that you hear from the pulpits.

I am doing you a big favour by not providing you the proof but just telling you its out there. Only by independent research can a person achieve enlightenment.

I am just giving you the headlines for you to start your path to enlightenment.

If you don't want to start the journey that is OK as well. Most people prefer to be spoon fed. I prefer people who want to start a journey but they are few and far between.

It is the difference between a school student and a research student .

 

You didn't provide any area to search, you literally just told me to search the title of my thread. Which I did, infact the only things I can find is praying with hands folded, not beside.

 It was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “We Prophets have been commanded to delay our suhoor and to break our fast straight away, and to place our right hands over our left hands when praying.” (narrated by Ibn Hibbaan in al-Saheeh, 3/13-14).

It was narrated that Sahl ibn Sa’d said: the people used to be instructed to place the right hand over the left forearm when praying. (narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 740)

 

Next time, don't be so passively-aggresive, I'm seeking knowledge not trying to fight.

Edited by Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī
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7 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

You didn't provide any area to search, you literally just told me to search the title of my thread. Which I did, infact the only things I can find is praying with hands folded, not beside.

 It was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “We Prophets have been commanded to delay our suhoor and to break our fast straight away, and to place our right hands over our left hands when praying.” (narrated by Ibn Hibbaan in al-Saheeh, 3/13-14).

It was narrated that Sahl ibn Sa’d said: the people used to be instructed to place the right hand over the left forearm when praying. (narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 740)

 

Next time, don't be so passively-aggresive, I'm seeking knowledge not trying to fight.

This search took me all of 20 seconds to think type and get an answer. I asked the question why do Malikis pray with their hands open. This is from a Sunni website and is an interesting balanced introduction to the debate

http://www.virtualmosque.com/islam-studies/why-do-the-malikis-pray-with-their-hands-to-the-sides-part-one/

It is slightly sanitised in as such it doesn't state that Imam Malik said that clasping hands invalidated the Salaat which he was very clear on .

You have to realise that out of the 4 Imams only Imam Malik spent any time in Medina and met the Tabaeen.

Imam Malik categorically states he never saw the people of Medina clasp their hands 

There is a lot more evidence you just have to ask the question

Edited by A true Sunni
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2 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

This search took me all of 20 seconds to think type and get an answer. I asked the question why do Malikis pray with their hands open. This is from a Sunni website and is an interesting balanced introduction to the debate

http://www.virtualmosque.com/islam-studies/why-do-the-malikis-pray-with-their-hands-to-the-sides-part-one/

It is slightly sanitised in as such it doesn't state that Imam Malik said that clasping hands invalidated the Salaat which he was very clear on .

You have to realise that out of the 4 Imams only Imam Malik spent any time in Medina and met the Tabaeen.

Imam Malik categorically states he never saw the people of Medina clasp their hands 

There is a lot more evidence you just have to ask the question

Thank you brother for the information. 

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38 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Thank you brother for the information. 

No problem, on reflection I apologise for being unduly harsh to you earlier. I have learnt so much just by typing in a question into google and reading around the subject.

By doing this I have formulated my own ideas thought processes and evidence. I just wish more people would do the same.

 

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46 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Thank you brother for the information. 

Purely from an academic point of view since 3/4 Sunni Imams allow open arms, what is your thoughts on this and do you wish to explore the evidence further in an academic manner. I stress academic not  sectarian manner since 3/4 Imams allow open arms

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20 hours ago, Aarmeen said:

If we justify praying with our hands by our side because Malikis Ibaadis, and Zaydis do it then the Tashahhud and Salaam in our prayers should be like all other muslims since there is a concensus in all schools of Sunni Islam, Zaydi Shiite Islam and Ibaadi Islam on how Tashahhud and Salaam should be performed. 

I did not say that anyone is justifying praying arms at the side because others are doing it . I specifically referenced evolutionary sociology to indicate what is probably the most accurate.

Edited by A true Sunni
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OK what do I mean by evolutionary sociology.

Firstly as the name suggests it implies that practices evolve and change over a period of time diverging and continuing to change after the divergence. ( think of evolution of land animals as an example)

The question arises what was the original form. All groups would argue that theres is the original unaltered  form and maybe one of them is or maybe they have all 'evolved'

In order to try and establish what the original 'format' was one has to establish the divergence points and look at commonality.

Modern day non-Maliki Sunnis would have you believe that hand clasping was the original method and all other groups diverged from them and decided to open their arms.

In order for this to happen the Shias , Ibadis , Malikis would have all had to split from the main body 3 times independently and choose to open their arms. I say 3 times because there is no jurispudential link between Malikis Shias and Ibadis.

The alternative is to assume that the original method was arms open and hand clasping split from them

This would be a logical conclusion since doctrinally Shafi, Hanafi and Hanbali are linked.

The earliest recognised permanent split is by the Kharijis (Ibadis) at the time of Sifeen ( Hz Ali's (as) time)

Ibadis all pray with hands open. On the balance of probabilities hands open is the most likely original method    

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