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Student_of_Deen

One reason to stop hating the Sahaba

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As`salamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh everyone,

I just came across a thread on a forum where someone was saying that a revert moderator from Shiachat left Islam and converted back to Christianity. Too bad most of us didn`t get a chance to talk with her in order to help her out.

It made me think why do a good number of ex-shi`as quit Islam altogether instead of looking at the other major sect (i.e Ahle Sunnah wal jamaah) ? And without a shadow of a doubt immense hatred of Sahaba is one of the main reasons behind it. 

So In`sha Allah I would like to know the opinions of people on this forum about this issue. 

Edited by Student_of_Deen

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17 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

And without a shadow of a doubt immense hatred of Sahaba is one of the main reasons behind it. 

Alaikas Salaam, 

So you know that this was one of the reason behind her leaving Islam. 

Edited by Lover of Ahlulbait (ams)

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Just now, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

So you know that this was one of the reason behind her leaving Islam. 

No I`m not saying this was the reason behind her leaving Islam. She was a revert from Christianity but then she converted back to Christianity (according to that guy on that forum, I can`t confirm because her post is removed). 

But I`m saying she probably didn`t even consider Ahle Sunnah before quieting Islam and converting back to Christianity because the hatred & enmity towards Sahaba she was taught probably didn`t enable her to consider turning to other sects which praise & present Sahaba in good light. 

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we do not hate the sahaba. the dust from their shoes is the kohl for our eyes. 

we hate the hypocrites around the prophet (s) who were described in surah 63 of the holy quran. 

we can identify the hypocrites by their actions after the prophets (s) death. we choose to accept historical facts. non shia choose to believe that everyone was friends and there was no fitnah and there were rainbows and unicorns and pretty fairys handing out gumdrops and chocolates. 

do not hate shia for following what happened, not what we wish happened. 

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Just now, Student_of_Deen said:

No I`m not saying this was the reason behind her leaving Islam. She was a revert from Christianity but then she converted back to Christianity (according to that guy on that forum, I can`t confirm because her post is removed). 

But I`m saying she probably didn`t even consider Ahle Sunnah before quieting Islam and converting back to Christianity because the hatred & enmity towards Sahaba she was taught probably didn`t enable her to consider turning to other sects which praise & present Sahaba in good light. 

Just to let you know there are shias here on SC as well as outside who have converted to sunnis/wahabis (considering major sect?) first but then researched and found the true path.

My question to you, if the sahabas are so much loved in your sect and hated in ours then what was the reason for them to migrate from major sect to shia? 

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@Student_of_Deen

People often accept, change, or retract their religion for a range of reasons, including personal issues, family/community pressure, or lack of sufficient knowledge or support. Other things are usually secondary at best.

You're giving this "Sahaba issue" too much credit. It might be super important to you, but the faith and beliefs of many people don't rely on this. 

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11 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

we do not hate the sahaba. the dust from their shoes is the kohl for our eyes. 

Yet according to you almost all of the Sahaba apostated from Islam, Naudhubillah. You`re basically saying the Prophet (Peace be upon him) was accompanied by hypocrites throughout his life and he didn`t even knew it. Rather he married their daughters and married gave his daughters to them in marriage. You`re saying the Prophet (Peace be upon him) him was given knowledge about this life and the afterlife and so much more but still he didn`t knew that majority of his relatives, friends and more than 99% of his companions are Naudhubillah Hypocrites. Now you got my point or you want me to explain further ? 

Edited by Student_of_Deen

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1 minute ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Yet according to you almost all of the Sahaba apostated from Islam

well, according to YOU anyone who rebels against the rightful caliph of their time is an apostate. 

sooooo all the sahaba who joined the rebellion against Ali ibn Abu Talib (as) are counted asssssss....what, exactly? 

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8 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

Just to let you know there are shias here on SC as well as outside who have converted to sunnis/wahabis (considering major sect?) first but then researched and found the true path.

 

I`m talking about specifically those ex-shi`as who turned to disbelief and now attack Islam in order to vent out their frustration. 

 

9 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

My question to you, if the sahabas are so much loved in your sect and hated in ours then what was the reason for them to migrate from major sect to shia? 

 

How do you expect me to know ? I personally have never came across any Shi`a who was formerly Sunni. 

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14 minutes ago, magma said:

You're giving this "Sahaba issue" too much credit. It might be super important to you, but the faith and beliefs of many people don't rely on this. 

 

I don`t understand how it`s not important to you but any logical person will tell you that by demonizing 99.99% of the Sahaba people are indirectly attacking Islam. 

 

Edited by Student_of_Deen

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6 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

I don`t understand how it`s not important to you but any logical person will tell you that by demonizing the Sahaba you`re indirectly attacking Islam. 

Is it one of the "five pillars"?

For how much this topic is hammered endlessly, you would think its right there with salat and the shahada itself. 

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8 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

I`m talking about specifically those ex-shi`as who turned to disbelief and now attack Islam in order to vent out their frustration

Probably he/she didn't understood deen properly or had some pre-meditated belief that didn't let him/her accept the aqaed or didn't got support from his/her community or couldn't absorb family pressure etcetera could be the reasons for a person to revert to their original faith. And you choose 'Hating the Sahaba' the most ridiculous ones as an argument for a sister who left Islam, Which is absolutely wrong in the first place. 

13 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

How do you expect me to know ? I personally have never came across any Shi`a who was formerly Sunni. 

I have come across many... many people. 

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19 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Yet according to you almost all of the Sahaba apostated from Islam, Naudhubillah. You`re basically saying the Prophet (Peace be upon him) was accompanied by hypocrites throughout his life and he didn`t even knew it. Rather he married their daughters and married gave his daughters to them in marriage. You`re saying the Prophet (Peace be upon him) him was given knowledge about this life and the afterlife and so much more but still he didn`t knew that majority of his relatives, friends and more than 99% of his companions are Naudhubillah Hypocrites. Now you got my point or you want me to explain further ? 

I suggest you read this before coming with such a conclusion:

May Allah SWT guide us all,

Wsalam

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W/s

39 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

It made me think why do a good number of ex-shi`as quit Islam altogether instead of looking at the other major sect (i.e Ahle Sunnah wal jamaah) ?

And the same question could be asked in the other direction: Why do a good number of ex-Sunnis leave Islam and turn to atheism?

Also, that the (supposed) hatred for the Sahaba being the ‘main’ reason for one person’s reversion to Christianity, and that we should respect all Sahaba because of such flimsy conjecture, is a bit of a leap, no?

19 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

How do you expect me to know ? I personally have never came across any Shi`a who was formerly Sunni. 

FYI: some of the most knowledgeable members on this site were formerly Sunni.

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On 4/28/2017 at 9:57 AM, Student_of_Deen said:

As`salamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh everyone,

I just came across a thread on a forum where someone was saying that a revert moderator from Shiachat left Islam and converted back to Christianity. Too bad most of us didn`t get a chance to talk with her in order to help her out.

It made me think why do a good number of ex-shi`as quit Islam altogether instead of looking at the other major sect (i.e Ahle Sunnah wal jamaah) ? And without a shadow of a doubt immense hatred of Sahaba is one of the main reasons behind it. 

So In`sha Allah I would like to know the opinions of people on this forum about this issue. 

Who said we hate sahabas?? we hate munafiqs. is that a bad thing?

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44 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Yet according to you almost all of the Sahaba apostated from Islam, Naudhubillah. You`re basically saying the Prophet (Peace be upon him) was accompanied by hypocrites throughout his life and he didn`t even knew it. Rather he married their daughters and married gave his daughters to them in marriage. You`re saying the Prophet (Peace be upon him) him was given knowledge about this life and the afterlife and so much more but still he didn`t knew that majority of his relatives, friends and more than 99% of his companions are Naudhubillah Hypocrites. Now you got my point or you want me to explain further ? 

lol where did you get that number 99% from???? Shias dont believe that the majority of sahabas appostated.  Show me any shia scholar who has said that? Its true shias have issues with abu bakr, umar, and aisha to be specific but thats 3 people and there was a little more but by no means 99 percent. You should fear Allah a little bit and get your facts straight before making parrot statements from weak scholars.

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47 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

As`salamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh everyone,

I just came across a thread on a forum where someone was saying that a revert moderator from Shiachat left Islam and converted back to Christianity. Too bad most of us didn`t get a chance to talk with her in order to help her out.

It made me think why do a good number of ex-shi`as quit Islam altogether instead of looking at the other major sect (i.e Ahle Sunnah wal jamaah) ? And without a shadow of a doubt immense hatred of Sahaba is one of the main reasons behind it. 

So In`sha Allah I would like to know the opinions of people on this forum about this issue. 

Waalaykum salam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh ya akhi,

Clarification:

Let me first make sure i understand your position. You affirm that shia's who leave islam are those who tend to quit it altogether, rather than looking for another sect. You attribute this to the 'hatred' of the Sahaba'. In later posts, you have given forth your perception of our beliefs, in that we believe 99.9% of sahaba were kuffar , and only say a handful, maybe five , remained on Islam. You then conclude by stating that loving the sahaba is not mere idol worship of personalities, but an affirmation to their absolutely central role in preserving the sunnah. After all, you affirm, it is through them we obtain the following phrase 'QALA RASULLULAH'. Attacking them is therefore akin to attacking the only reliable source and root of the sunnah, which is a foundation of this religion and how we understand every pillar in Islam.

I believe i have properly represented your position, Tayyib?

My response:

On the issue of an ex-mod apostating: Before we move onto the Sahaba, let me first give what i believe is the case with shia's who leave islam not join other sects  - but apostate altogether. You will find that many reverts into shia islam are not those who are direct reverts [though many are]. Rather, due to the greater number of sunni's [ashari's, salafi's etc] and the more extensive dawah network you have owing to your numbers, more people reverting are ofcourse, going to be sunni's. It is when these people dig deeper, compare the shia creed to the sunni one, when they come to a realisation and follow shia islam. So when you find the odd, very rare, apostate, often more than not, they have already been sunni's and rejected it.

I knew the sister you refer to in the OP. I even had clashes with her. Her problem was arrogance , and not willing to take the view point of another. A strong element of her apostating was due to personal factors [as was in the message she wrote when she left, and testimony from others]. I can assure you, there was little link to the sahaba here. I don't think she even cared enough to have them as a reason.

On the claim we hate Sahaba: Before i begin to address this topic, let me clarify one factual error in your post. We do not  - and can i please emphasize this- catagorically reject the absurd notion that 99.9% of the sahaba are kuffar, and only four were 'muslims'. Having debated brothers who often source similar if not identical links and scanned pages , can i advise you not to rely entirely on ahadith taken out of context, or which lack reliability.

You seem well-read [albeit well-read in flawed refutations against us also]. So i sincerely recommend you to read this thread:

You must understand brother, that we do not deem the 'Sahaba' to be as one body, as one monolithic group. The Sahaba of Muhammed [saw] or of the other Prophets of God [asws] or of any  group of human beings are composed of people of various levels of taqwa and eman. Hence there is no such thing as 'hating the sahaba' in shia islam. Do we have strong reservations against a number of them? Yes. However, i would like to you to consider the following:

1. If we define the 'Sahaba' as anyone who saw and heard the Prophet [saw] and died at least, on apparent islam without renouncing the shahadatayn then:

A. The vast majority of people who qualify for the above converted in the last two years of the life of the Prophet [saw]. Indeed, in ten years of open prophethood in Makkah, barely 50 or 60 converted to Islam. In Medina, he had to fight war after war with the kuffar of Makkah. It was only until the very last two or three years of his life that Makkah had 'converted' albeit with no real choice. We then find only in te last one or two years the remainder of the arabian peninsula converts - and still there are 'apostates' and many wars that have to be fought after. All in all, the proportion of the Sahaba who truly knew the prophet [saw], who were dedicated, loyal, and with him from the beggining to the end [at least apparently] even by your books, were a fraction of the total proportion of largely untested 'Sahaba'.

Shia muslims do not consider 99.9% of the sahaba to be 'Kuffar'. We respect the matyrs of all the holy wars. We respect many prominent companions, such as Jabir ibn Abdillah al-ansari [ra], Abu sai'd al Khudri [ra], Ibn Abbas [ra], Salman al Farsi [ra], Miqdad Al aswad [ra], abudhar al ghifari [ra], Umar ibn Abi Salama [ra], Hadrath Bilal [ra], Abu ayyub al Ansari [ra], Ubay ibn K'ab [ra], Khuzaymah bin thabit [ra] - and i could continue. Let us also not ignore among these are obviously Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, Hasan a.s, Hussain a.s, Fatima a.s, and wives, such as Lady Khadija [ra], Umm salama [ra]. You'll find that among these names are people who are prolific narrators in the sihahayn , as well as sihah-al sitta. We just differ on the chains sometimes attributed to them - though there is much we agree on here.

Let me add, for the many of the 'sahaba' we do not pass judgement - as literally tens of thousands converted during the last few years of the Prophet [saw] and many were also ignorant, and Allahu'alam. You had farmers, bedouins, women , children, old men, who had seen and heard the prophet [saw], professed Islam, and returned to their lands far and wide in Arabia and beyond.

So this claim we consider 99.9% are kuffar is patently false. We do not go to the other extreme by regarding them all to be righteous and beyond criticism. The Quran is evidence enough that for many of the Prophets of God, and indeed, even men chosen by God, such as Saul [as], few truly obeyed their commands and many turned away.

Our conviction and preservation of the Sunnah rests on the shoulders of many of the loyal companions, but our main route is through the Quran and the Ahlulbayt asws. This is why the majority of our isnads go through Imam muhammed al baqir [as] and Imam Jaffer as Sadiq a.s. Muhammed Al Baqir [as] was a tabi', the grandson of Hussain ibn Ali a.s, the grandson of the Prophet [saw]. Even according to the ahlus-sunnah, the chain to Rasulullah [saw] from Jaffer as sadiq a.s, to his father Al Baqir a.s, to his father Zain Al Abideen a.s, to Hussain ibn Ali as/Hassan ibn Ali a,s, to Ali a.s to the Messenger of Allah [saw] is perfect. It is the golden chain.

Consider, even for acts of salah, how Imam Malik [who lived and was raised in Medina] as well as Jaffer as sadiq [as], again, living in the city of the prophet [saw] somehow agree on sadl, placing the hands by the sides? Whereas some of the other imams of ahlus-sunnah, who were influenced by geographic alterations and were primarily educated elsewhere first, adopt those alterations.

I know this is a long reply , but because you are polite, and you evidence your points and ask fair questions , i feel you were worthy of me taking out the time to reply. I hope you read this response in full, so inshAllah in the future we can build further on these points and in these arguments.

 

:ws:

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28 minutes ago, magma said:

Is it one of the "five pillars"?

For how much this topic is hammered endlessly, you would think its right there with salat and the shahada itself. 

No it`s not, But the thousands upon thousands of Sahabas who memorized the holy Qu`ran are one of our strongest evidences when it comes to proving to Non Muslims that the Qu`ran is preserved exactly the way it was revealed. 

When you say 99.99% of the Sahaba was hypocrite and they turned away from Islam the moment Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) passed away, you right away cast doubts on the preservation of the holy Qu`ran in the minds of people. 

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42 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Yet according to you almost all of the Sahaba apostated from Islam, Naudhubillah. You`re basically saying the Prophet (Peace be upon him) was accompanied by hypocrites throughout his life and he didn`t even knew it. Rather he married their daughters and married gave his daughters to them in marriage. You`re saying the Prophet (Peace be upon him) him was given knowledge about this life and the afterlife and so much more but still he didn`t knew that majority of his relatives, friends and more than 99% of his companions are Naudhubillah Hypocrites. Now you got my point or you want me to explain further ? 

Prophet married their daughters because before that Prophet said that if anyone offer you his daughter in marriage don't refuse. So, those men came to offer their daughters as they knew Prophet can't back out from what he pbuhhp said.

Gave his daughters to hypocrites?  Prophet had only one daughter whom he gave to Ali a.s. All other ladies whom you call daughters of Prophet were married to their husbands even before they didn't accept Islam. So, you wanna say that Prophet gave his daughters to kuffar while marriage with kuffar is Haram. 

Finally, prophet knew every hypocrite but since this world is a trial where hypocrite and momin live in the same place so prophet did not do anything until they give explicit evidence that they were enemy of Islam. If they would have done that openly, you would have seen prophet fighting against them.

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