Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Election of Uthman

Rate this topic


Faruk

Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
1 minute ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Then it makes all the more reason to take it back because it was the God given right of Imam Ali according to you. 

 

They all paid their allegiance laters including Imam Ali. 

 

Very poor excuse to let go of your God given right. If somebody stole your ancestors property then you will probably fight them legally all your life. But the God given right to succession was forcibly taken away but Imam Ali never even publicly complained about ? Even when he became the Caliph ? 

Sorry but I find this very hard to digest. 

Imam Ali as scolded all the first three caliphs several times in front of many ashab and public. Whatever they had snatched was worldly power and not the divine succession. Divine succession was with Imam Ali as and many ashab believed and followed Imam Ali as till their last breath like Salman, Abuzar, Miqdad, Ammar rz. Kindly check your own books to confirm these. Imam Ali as never paid allegiance to anyone of the caliphs before him. Even election of Uthman which is topic of this discussion is most apt answer to this. 

Imam Ali as refused to accept the traditions of first two caliphs and Uthman accepted just because of that Abdur Rahman ibn Auf given caliphate to Uthman. 

Even in Nahjul Balagha, Maula Ali as says to Uthman, "you know well that I deserve Caliphate more than anyone else". Read Sermon Shiqshiqya

The whole episode is there even in Tarikh e Tabari.

First three caliphs didn't have faith in Allah's book i.e. Quran

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
3 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

You mean everyone betrayed AhlulBayt because they were busy for some time ? 

 

But wasn`t it their right ? Why didn`t the divinely appoint Imam fought for his right if he was the rightful successor of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) ? More importantly if he cannot even protect his own rights then how could he protect the rights of others ?

This is a View according to a quote in a publication featured on Al-Islam.org   the hadith referenced is from a Al sunnah hadith collection.

"

Based on a parallel (Mutawatir) tradition upon whose authenticity all Muslims agree, the Messenger of Allah (S) informed his followers in several occasions that he would leave them two precious/weighty things and that if Muslims adhere to both of them, they will never go astray after him. They are the Book of Allah (Qur’an) and the Members of the House of the Prophet (Ahlul-Bayt), peace be upon them all.

It is narrated in Sahih Muslim as well as many other sources that:

Someday (after his last pilgrimage) the Messenger of Allah (S) stood to give us a speech beside a pond which is known as Khum (Ghadir Khum) which is located between Mecca and Medina. Then he praised Allah and reminded Him, and then said: "O’ people! Behold! It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. Behold! I am leaving for you two precious things. First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light and guidance...The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. (three times)."

Sunni Reference:

• Sahih Muslim, Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of ‘Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v 4, p1873, Tradition #36.

• And many others such as Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad (see below).

For the English version of Sahih Muslim, see Chapter CMXCVI, v4, p1286, Tradition #5920"

Link to view: https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/quran-and-ahlul-bayt

 

If you want to confirm that this is correct, I suggest you either reference it in Arabic or a pre Saudi influenced English translation, I found the Turkish translation in my Dayi (uncles collection of hadith volumes which  were my grandparents from the Ottoman Era) to say this very statement. Allah knows best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
3 hours ago, haidermpr said:

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-3-Allah-son-abu-quhafah

Famous sermon of Maula Ali as regarding caliphate known as Khutba e Shiqshiqiya

I recently quoted a sermon from Nahjul balagha on another thread but a Shi`a brother rejected it. So I`m not going to consider it either. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, MariyahLaleh said:

This is a View according to a quote in a publication featured on Al-Islam.org   the hadith referenced is from a Al sunnah hadith collection.

"

Based on a parallel (Mutawatir) tradition upon whose authenticity all Muslims agree, the Messenger of Allah (S) informed his followers in several occasions that he would leave them two precious/weighty things and that if Muslims adhere to both of them, they will never go astray after him. They are the Book of Allah (Qur’an) and the Members of the House of the Prophet (Ahlul-Bayt), peace be upon them all.

It is narrated in Sahih Muslim as well as many other sources that:

Someday (after his last pilgrimage) the Messenger of Allah (S) stood to give us a speech beside a pond which is known as Khum (Ghadir Khum) which is located between Mecca and Medina. Then he praised Allah and reminded Him, and then said: "O’ people! Behold! It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. Behold! I am leaving for you two precious things. First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light and guidance...The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. (three times)."

Sunni Reference:

• Sahih Muslim, Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of ‘Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v 4, p1873, Tradition #36.

• And many others such as Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad (see below).

For the English version of Sahih Muslim, see Chapter CMXCVI, v4, p1286, Tradition #5920"

Link to view: https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/quran-and-ahlul-bayt

 

If you want to confirm that this is correct, I suggest you either reference it in Arabic or a pre Saudi influenced English translation, I found the Turkish translation in my Dayi (uncles collection of hadith volumes which  were my grandparents from the Ottoman Era) to say this very statement. Allah knows best.

There is no need to confirm it as we all agree on the hadith about the two weighty things. The thing is Sunni understanding of this hadith is much different from Shi`a understanding of this hadith. 

We believe the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said this because someone complained to him about Syedina Ali. He wanted his Ummah to treat his family kindly and fulfil their rights and not cause them harm after he is gone. We don`t believe the Prophet (Peace be upon him) meant that after the Ahlul bayt (May Allah be pleased with them all) come after the Holy Qu`ran because that spot is not reserved for people, it`s for the Sunnah of the Prophet (Peace be upon him). 

Edited by Student_of_Deen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
8 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Because the Prophet (Peace be upon him) Prophesied that the Rightly guided Caliphate will only last 30 years. 

And what comes after it ? Rightly guided dictatorship?  I think prophet predicted more than that in the same hadith 

It's so unfair muawiyah the great companion , Katib wahi, conquerer of Cyprus,  first admiral of Muslims,  brother in law of the prophet , avenger of uthman... is not a rightly guided caliph ...surely prophet hadith  was not correctly heard

Why isn't Abdullah b zubaur  rightly guided caliph?  Or Umar b abdul Aziz? 

 

Edited by Panzerwaffe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

What kind of argument is that brother ? Allah Subhana watala allowed Pharoah to rule because he wanted to test people as well as the Pharoah himself. What does any of that has to do with a man willingly letting others rob him of his rights ?

finally brother you answered my question thats true that Allah Swt wanted to test people same here when abu bakr took caliphate he wanted to test people who they want as a leader Imam Ali As or abu bakr and who choosed Imam Ali As is called Shias and who think or never think on that matter is called sunnis/wahabis because you guys never listened to what Prophet Muhammad Saww said on ghadir e khum he said Whoever im master to Ali As is Also master of and it means he openly announce the succsesor of him but saqifah meeting didnt let it happen it was test of Imam Ali As patience therefore he didnt do anything to abu bakr and company and how many years Imam Ali As had patience double so many years will Allah Swt give punishment to who did wrong to Imam Ali As so Imam Ali As did very right thing to have patience and have trust only on Allah Swt if he had took over abu bakr then you guys would have said he wanted power u guys will always critisize Imam Ali As which is very surprising for me you guys dont believe in him actually u guys only says that we believe in him and no matter what he did you guys opposed it till now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and secondly we believe in Imamat so you guys can believe in caliphate system Imam Ali As will always be superior to abu bakr omar Usman no matter what you guys say and caliphate system of yours is joke because it looks like that anyone can be caliph in your Islam and you guys dont care who be the caliph no qualification for caliph system in your views.

and you guys have fake hadith that if it was Prophet after Prophet Muhammad Saww it would be omar ibn khattab so why did abu bakr not let omar be caliph first and he second number because in your eyes omar was more important and superior so it only hypocryisi of you guys if omar was so important that he would have been Prophet Naozobillah then he should have been first caliph and not on second place it means you guys create fake hadiths which has no authenitci and abu hurairah was known for making fake hadiths in his times people said to him in his face that you lie because you get money from omar abu bakr and uthman and muawiayah etc types of people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
20 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

He wanted his Ummah to treat his family kindly and fulfil their rights and not cause them harm after he is gone.

And did they do that?

 

Quote

We don`t believe the Prophet (Peace be upon him) meant that after the Ahlul bayt (May Allah be pleased with them all) come after the Holy Qu`ran because that spot is not reserved for people.

You can believe what you want but his s.a.w.a.s. words were to hold fast to the Quran and the Ahl al-Bayt and that these two would not split until they meet at the Hawd. Which indicates that it's also a warning for the later generations.

Edited by Faruk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Shahjee12145 said:

finally brother you answered my question thats true that Allah Swt wanted to test people same here when abu bakr took caliphate he wanted to test people who they want as a leader Imam Ali As or abu bakr and who choosed Imam Ali As is called Shias and who think or never think on that matter is called sunnis/wahabis because you guys never listened to what Prophet Muhammad Saww said on ghadir e khum he said Whoever im master to Ali As is Also master of and it means he openly announce the succsesor of him but saqifah meeting didnt let it happen it was test of Imam Ali As patience therefore he didnt do anything to abu bakr and company and how many years Imam Ali As had patience double so many years will Allah Swt give punishment to who did wrong to Imam Ali As so Imam Ali As did very right thing to have patience and have trust only on Allah Swt if he had took over abu bakr then you guys would have said he wanted power u guys will always critisize Imam Ali As which is very surprising for me you guys dont believe in him actually u guys only says that we believe in him and no matter what he did you guys opposed it till now.

Your attempt to justify not asking for one`s right is hilarious. If somebody forcibly took your home and kicked you out on the street. Will you try to get your home back from him or will you say this is a test from Allah so I will let him occupy my house while I sleep with dogs on the street ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
42 minutes ago, Faruk said:

And did they do that?

Most of them did but unfortunately some traitors & tyrants managed to kill and oppress many members of the Ahlul bayt. 

 

44 minutes ago, Faruk said:

You can believe what you want but his s.a.w.a.s. words were to hold fast to the Quran and the Ahl al-Bayt and that these two would not split until they meet at the Hawd. Which indicates that it's also a warning for the later generations.

You can also believe what you but to say that the Prophet`s (Peace be upon him) family comes before his Sunnah then that is an insult to the holy Prophet (Peace be upon him). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
19 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

And what comes after it ? Rightly guided dictatorship?  I think prophet predicted more than that in the same hadith 

Yes in some narrations he said biting monarchy but what is to be understood is that many of the rulers will by tyrants but not every ruler is going to be a biting tyrant otherwise  Isa (Peace be upon him) will also be a tyrant Naudhubillah when he returns 

19 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

It's so unfair muawiyah the great companion , Katib wahi, conquerer of Cyprus,  first admiral of Muslims,  brother in law of the prophet , avenger of uthman... is not a rightly guided caliph ...surely prophet hadith  was not correctly heard

If you think it is unfair then you please take it up with Allah and his messenger (Peace be upon him). But we do not believe Ameer Mu`awiyah was a rightly guided caliph. 

19 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Why isn't Abdullah b zubaur  rightly guided caliph?  Or Umar b abdul Aziz? 

Abdullah Ibn Zubayr (May Allah be pleased with him) was never a Caliph. As for Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz (May Allah have mercy on him) then it is believed that he was a rightly guided caliph because he ruled the same way his great grandfather Umar Ibn al khattab (May Allah be pleased with him) governed his caliphate. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
37 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Most of them did but unfortunately some traitors & tyrants managed to kill and oppress many members of the Ahlul bayt. 

Allahu Akbar! Who were they?
 

Quote

You can also believe what you but to say that the Prophet`s (Peace be upon him) family comes before his Sunnah then that is an insult to the holy Prophet (Peace be upon him). 

You should bear in mind that there are two versions of Hadith al-Thaqalayn.

Kitabullah and Ahl al-Bayt in Muslim and Tirmidhi. Mentioned several times. All sahih.

Kitabullah and Sunnah in Malik's Muwatta. Mentioned one time without a chain.

Which version should I give preference?





 

Edited by Faruk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Your attempt to justify not asking for one`s right is hilarious. If somebody forcibly took your home and kicked you out on the street. Will you try to get your home back from him or will you say this is a test from Allah so I will let him occupy my house while I sleep with dogs on the street ? 

house and caliphate is two different things brother and i believe in Imamat and you can have your caliphate brother good luck :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
20 minutes ago, Shahjee12145 said:

house and caliphate is two different things brother and i believe in Imamat and you can have your caliphate brother good luck :)

But according to you people Imam Ali lost everything because of the caliphate including his wife and unborn child and even his house set on fire. 

Why didn`t he fought back ???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
15 minutes ago, Shahjee12145 said:

btw i dont understand this caliphate system of yours it meaningless and how can u just make anyone caliph and your comments show your hatred towards Ahlulbayt As so finally you guys admit that you dont believe in Ahlulbayt As

LOL I don`t know what to say man. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
6 minutes ago, Shahjee12145 said:

brother he waited to the right time and did live with patience because masomeen As is used to hardship in life and secondly Imam Hussain As exposed all your caliph in Karbala because that was the right time to stand up

But it was his responsibility to lead the Ummah right ? You brothers yourselves say that Allah divinely appointed him as an Imam and the Successor of the holy Prophet (Peace be upon him). So how can he not perform his responsibility and allow so many Muslims to go astray for several years ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

how can u say he left people get astray his house was open for anyone but its up to us to go there or not and people who was connected to Ameer Ul Momineen Imam Ali As was always on right path but who doesnt got connected to him his father names no one knows even so its up to us what choice we makes in life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and its students who go to teacher for teaching not teacher go to student for teaching so u might have got your answer what i mean and many occasion omar khattab said that if Abul Hassan As was not there to help me i would have vanished haahahha so what have u say about that because omar khattab didnt have knowledge like Ameer Ul Momineen As he admited by himself

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
7 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Yes in some narrations he said biting monarchy but what is to be understood is that many of the rulers will by tyrants but not every ruler is going to be a biting tyrant otherwise  Isa (Peace be upon him) will also be a tyrant Naudhubillah when he returns 

If you think it is unfair then you please take it up with Allah and his messenger (Peace be upon him). But we do not believe Ameer Mu`awiyah was a rightly guided caliph. 

Abdullah Ibn Zubayr (May Allah be pleased with him) was never a Caliph. As for Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz (May Allah have mercy on him) then it is believed that he was a rightly guided caliph because he ruled the same way his great grandfather Umar Ibn al khattab (May Allah be pleased with him) governed his caliphate. 

Isa  is a tyrant according to you ?

Abdullah b zubaur ruled hijaz and Iraq how was he not a caliph ?

So there is a reason why muawiyah marwan  and likes are skipped  and Umar b abdul Aziz is a rightly guided caliph 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Isa  is a tyrant according to you ?

Abdullah b zubaur ruled hijaz and Iraq how was he not a caliph ?

So there is a reason why muawiyah marwan  and likes are skipped  and Umar b abdul Aziz is a rightly guided caliph 

The scribe of the Prophet s.a.w.a.s. Don't make me laugh. This was even disputed by Sayyid Qutb. According to him the Prophet s.a.w.a.s. just did Abu Sufyan a favor by restoring their honor and so he let Muawiya write some formal documents. No Quranic texts.

"The erroneous fable still persists that Mu'awiya was a scribe who wrote down the revelations of Allah's Messenger. The truth is that when Abu Sufyan embraced Islam, he besought the Prophet to give Mu'awiya some measure of position in the eyes of the Arabs; thus he would be compensated of being slow to embrace Islam and of being one of those who had no precedence in the new religion. So the Prophet used Mu'awiya for writing letters and contracts and agreements. But none of the companions ever said that he wrote down any of the Prophet's revelations, as was asserted by Mu'awiyas partisans after he had assumed the throne. But this is what happens in all such cases."

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
22 hours ago, Shahjee12145 said:

yes many Muslims got astray i admit that but this was their choice but who wanted to stay close to Ahlulbayt As did not go astray because Prophet Muhammad Saww said that my Ahlulbayt As is like ark of Noah who got inside is saved and who left it get destroyed :)

 

21 hours ago, Shahjee12145 said:

how can u say he left people get astray his house was open for anyone but its up to us to go there or not and people who was connected to Ameer Ul Momineen Imam Ali As was always on right path but who doesnt got connected to him his father names no one knows even so its up to us what choice we makes in life.

 

21 hours ago, Shahjee12145 said:

and its students who go to teacher for teaching not teacher go to student for teaching so u might have got your answer what i mean and many occasion omar khattab said that if Abul Hassan As was not there to help me i would have vanished haahahha so what have u say about that because omar khattab didnt have knowledge like Ameer Ul Momineen As he admited by himself

 

If accepting others as Khalifah will make someone misguided and even a kaffir then how can he remain silent ? I think even you can see how illogical all this sounds. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
15 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Isa  is a tyrant according to you ?

 Read my post again. 

 

15 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Abdullah b zubaur ruled hijaz and Iraq how was he not a caliph ?

 

He ruled Iraq ? who told you that ? 

I think you don`t know but Abdullah Ibn Zubayr (Radhi Allahu Anhu) was one the people who were at the forefront against the treacherous Iraqis, He publicly exposed the people of Kufa. He is reported to have said this when the news of Syedna Hussain (radhi Allahu Anhu) martyrdom reached Makkah. 

"O people! No other people are worse than Iraqis and among the Iraqis, the people of Kufa are the worst. They repeatedly wrote letters and called Imam Husayn to them and took bay'at (allegiance) for his caliphate. But when Ibn Zeyad arrived in Kufa, they rallied around him and martyr Imam Husayn who was pious, observed the fast, read the Quran and deserved the caliphate in all respects".

 

15 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

So there is a reason why muawiyah marwan  and likes are skipped  and Umar b abdul Aziz is a rightly guided caliph 

The point is rightly guided caliphate ended 30 years after the passing away of the holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) just as he prophesied. Whether Ameer Mu`awiyah and Umar ibn Abdul Aziz were rightly guided caliphs or not is another discussion. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
9 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Doubting muawiyah who was katib wahi means doubting Quran 

And doubting Quran makes one a kafir

By this logic criticizing muawiyah makes one a Kafir

No we never say such things. I challenge to show me one example where any knowledgeable Sunni scholar have said such a thing. 

We know for a fact that the Holy Qu`ran is not dependent on anyone for it`s preservation because Allah has sworn to protect and besides people memorized the verses immediately as they were revealed if they happen to be around the Prophet (Peace be upon him). And as we all know the Prophet (Peace be upon him) was rarely ever alone. He was either with people outside or with his family.

criticising Ameer Mu`awiyah does not makes someone a kafir, but it certainly proves that person to be misguided.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
14 hours ago, Faruk said:

The scribe of the Prophet s.a.w.a.s. Don't make me laugh. This was even disputed by Sayyid Qutb. According to him the Prophet s.a.w.a.s. just did Abu Sufyan a favor by restoring their honor and so he let Muawiya write some formal documents. No Quranic texts.

"The erroneous fable still persists that Mu'awiya was a scribe who wrote down the revelations of Allah's Messenger. The truth is that when Abu Sufyan embraced Islam, he besought the Prophet to give Mu'awiya some measure of position in the eyes of the Arabs; thus he would be compensated of being slow to embrace Islam and of being one of those who had no precedence in the new religion. So the Prophet used Mu'awiya for writing letters and contracts and agreements. But none of the companions ever said that he wrote down any of the Prophet's revelations, as was asserted by Mu'awiyas partisans after he had assumed the throne. But this is what happens in all such cases."

 

Sayid Qutb was not a scholar. Obviously he didn`t liked the Sahaba and he took sides with Shi`as on many matters because afterall he was a member of Muslim Broherhood, an organisation proven to be Freemasonic since it`s inception. Other ikhwani groups like Jamaat e Islami of India also dislikes many Sahaba and they take sides with Shi`as for the same reason. In fact Abul Ala Maududi (founder of jamaat) was best friends with Khomeini and he was deeply concerned with his revolution. 

1) Riyah bin al Jarrah said A person asked Mu`aafaa bin Imran (d 185 h)
 يا أبا مسعود أين عمر بن عبد العزيز من معاوية بن أبي سفيان ؟ فغضب من ذلك غضبا شديدا ، وقال : لا يقاس بأصحاب رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - أحد ، معاوية صاحبه ، وصهره ، وكاتبه ، وأمينه على وحي الله ،
O Abu Masood “What is the role of Muawiyah compared to Umar bin Abdulaziz?”. Mu`aafaa bin Imran got furious and said “Nobody can be compared to the companions of Prophet peace be upon him. Muawiyah was companion of Prophet peace be upon him, Brother in law, scribe and his ameen regarding wahyy of Allah.” [Tareekh Baghdad 1/209 Authenticated by Sh Zubair Ali Zai in tahqiq of Fadail as-Sahaba page 129, see also الآجري 5/2466 واللالكائي 8/1445 وتاريخ بغداد 1/209 ومن طريقه الجورقاني 1/195]
 
2) Ibn Asakir he said
وأصح ما رُوي في فضل معاوية حديث أبي حمزة عن ابن عباس أنه كاتِبُ النبيِّ منذ أسلم، أخرجه مسلم في صحيحه. وبعده حديث العرباض: اللهم علمه الكتاب. وبعد حديث ابن أبي عَميرة: اللهم اجعله هاديا مهديا"
"And most authentic that was narrated in merits of Muawiya is the narration of Abu Hamza from ibn Abbas that he was scribe of prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) after he embraced Islam,it was reported by Muslim in his Sahih, and after that narration of al-Irbad: O Allah teach him the book (i.e. The Holy Qu`ran), and after that narration of ibn Abu Umeyrah: O Allah make him guided, a guider".[Tareekh madinatul dimashq (59/106), Shaykh Nasir ud din al-Albani Quoted in Silsilah as-Saheeha Vol 7 Page 694 hadeeth no: 3227]
 
 Ibn Kathir said
وقد اعتنى ابن عساكر بهذا الحديث وأطنب فيه، وأطيب وأطرب، وأفاد وأجاد، وأحسن الانتقاد، فرحمه الله، كم له من موطن قد تبرز فيه على غيره من الحفاظ والنقاد.
Ibn Asakir mentioned this hadith with organized manner, and in great detail, and in best and good way, May Allah have mercy on him. He went ahead in many feilds from many Huffaz and Nuqaad. [al Bidaya wal Nihaya 8/160]
 
Then he went on and quoted other ahadith and said
ثم ساق ابن عساكر أحاديث كثيرة موضوعة بلا شك في فضل معاوية، أضربنا عنها صفحا، واكتفينا بما أوردناه من الأحاديث الصحاح والحسان والمستجادات عما سواها من الموضعات والمنكرات.
ثم قال ابن عساكر: وأصح ما روي في فضل معاوية حديث أبي جمرة، عن ابن عباس: أنه كان كاتب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم منذ أسلم.
أخرجه مسلم في صحيحه.
وبعده حديث العرباض: «اللهم علم معاوية الكتاب».
وبعده حديث ابن أبي عمير: «اللهم اجعله هاديا مهديا».
 
Then Ibn Asakir mentioned many fabrications without a doubt on virtues of Muawiyah, I have not mentioned them, Against these fabrications I have mentioned authentic, good and powerful ahadith.
 
Ibn Asakir said: "And most authentic that was narrated in merits of Muawiya is the narration of Abu Hamza from ibn Abbas that he was scribe of prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) after he embraced Islam,it was reported by Muslim in his Sahih, and after that narration of al-Irbad: O Allah teach him the book, and after that narration of ibn Abu Umeyrah: O Allah make him guided, a guider". [Al Bidaya wal Nihaya 8/161]

 

 ad-Dahabi said:

وذكر المفضل الغلابي: أن زيد بن ثابت كان كاتب وحي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، وكان معاوية كاتبه فيما بينه وبين العرب. كذا قال. وقد صح عن ابن عباس قال: كنت ألعب، فدعاني رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وقال: ادع لي معاوية وكان يكتب الوحي. وقال معاوية بن صالح، عن يونس بن سيف، عن الحارث بن زياد، عن أبي رهم السماعي، عن العرباض بن سارية: سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وهو يدعونا إلى السحور: هلم إلى الغداء المبارك. ثم سمعته يقول: اللهم علم معاوية الكتاب والحساب، وقه العذاب. رواه أحمد في مسنده، وقد وهم فيه قتيبة، وأسقط منه أبا رهم والعرباض. وقيل أبو مسهر: ثنا سعيد بن عبد العزيز، عن ربيعة بن يزيد، عن عبد الرحمن بن أبي عميرة المزني وكان من أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال لمعاوية: اللهم علمه الكتاب والحساب، وقه العذاب. هذا الحديث رواته ثقات، لكن اختلفوا في صحبة عبد الرحمن، والأظهر أنه صحابي،
روي نحوه من وجوه أخر. وقال مروان الطاطري: ثنا سعيد بن عبد العزيز، حدثني ربيعة بن يزيد، سمعت عبد الرحمن بن أبي عميرة يقول: سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول
لمعاوية: اللهم اجعله هادياً مهدياً، واهده واهد به. رواه الوليد بن مسلم، وأبو مسهر، عن سعيد، نحوه، رواه الترمذي، عن الذهلي، عن أبي مسهر، وقال: حسن غريب. 
 
al Mufdal al Ghlabi mentioned: Zaid bin Thabit was Katib al Wahy for Rasool Allah peace be upon him, and Muawiyah used to write letters, BUT THIS IS AUTHENTICALLY proven from Ibn Abbas that Ibn Abbas that he said “I was playing when the Prophet called upon me and said to me ‘Go and call Muawiyah’ and he was a scribe of revelation.. Al-Aarbad bin Sariyah as-Sulamee ra reported that he heard the Prophet Peace be upon him saying : "O Allah ! Teach Muawya the Book and Math, and protect him from the Punishment ". (ad-dahabi said "This hadeeth is Powerful shahid" in Syar Ailam al Nubala 3/124)... Abdul Rahman bin Abi Umaira said that Prophet Peace be upon him said " O Allah ! Teach Muawya Math, and protect him from the Punishment " THIS HADITH (of Ibn abi Umairah) HAS TRUSTWORTHY NARRATORS  but there is difference of opinion on companionship of Abdul Rahman, but is is more correct that he was a sahabi... Abdul Rahman bin abi Umaira ra said “O Allah, make him (Muawiya ) guided, a guider, and guide people through him”... Tirmidhi said Its Hasan  Ghareeb. [Tareekh al Islam 4/309-310]
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
5 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

@Faruk Was Syed Qutb a scholar of hadith, Islamic history and personalities ?

You don't have to be a Masterchef to know the food doesn't taste right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
30 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

 

1) Riyah bin al Jarrah said A person asked Mu`aafaa bin Imran (d 185 h)
 يا أبا مسعود أين عمر بن عبد العزيز من معاوية بن أبي سفيان ؟ فغضب من ذلك غضبا شديدا ، وقال : لا يقاس بأصحاب رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - أحد ، معاوية صاحبه ، وصهره ، وكاتبه ، وأمينه على وحي الله ،
O Abu Masood “What is the role of Muawiyah compared to Umar bin Abdulaziz?”. Mu`aafaa bin Imran got furious and said “Nobody can be compared to the companions of Prophet peace be upon him. Muawiyah was companion of Prophet peace be upon him, Brother in law, scribe and his ameen regarding wahyy of Allah.” [Tareekh Baghdad 1/209 Authenticated by Sh Zubair Ali Zai in tahqiq of Fadail as-Sahaba page 129, see also الآجري 5/2466 واللالكائي 8/1445 وتاريخ بغداد 1/209 ومن طريقه الجورقاني 1/195]
 
2) Ibn Asakir he said
وأصح ما رُوي في فضل معاوية حديث أبي حمزة عن ابن عباس أنه كاتِبُ النبيِّ منذ أسلم، أخرجه مسلم في صحيحه. وبعده حديث العرباض: اللهم علمه الكتاب. وبعد حديث ابن أبي عَميرة: اللهم اجعله هاديا مهديا"
"And most authentic that was narrated in merits of Muawiya is the narration of Abu Hamza from ibn Abbas that he was scribe of prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) after he embraced Islam,it was reported by Muslim in his Sahih, and after that narration of al-Irbad: O Allah teach him the book (i.e. The Holy Qu`ran), and after that narration of ibn Abu Umeyrah: O Allah make him guided, a guider".[Tareekh madinatul dimashq (59/106), Shaykh Nasir ud din al-Albani Quoted in Silsilah as-Saheeha Vol 7 Page 694 hadeeth no: 3227]
 
 Ibn Kathir said
وقد اعتنى ابن عساكر بهذا الحديث وأطنب فيه، وأطيب وأطرب، وأفاد وأجاد، وأحسن الانتقاد، فرحمه الله، كم له من موطن قد تبرز فيه على غيره من الحفاظ والنقاد.
Ibn Asakir mentioned this hadith with organized manner, and in great detail, and in best and good way, May Allah have mercy on him. He went ahead in many feilds from many Huffaz and Nuqaad. [al Bidaya wal Nihaya 8/160]
 
Then he went on and quoted other ahadith and said
ثم ساق ابن عساكر أحاديث كثيرة موضوعة بلا شك في فضل معاوية، أضربنا عنها صفحا، واكتفينا بما أوردناه من الأحاديث الصحاح والحسان والمستجادات عما سواها من الموضعات والمنكرات.
ثم قال ابن عساكر: وأصح ما روي في فضل معاوية حديث أبي جمرة، عن ابن عباس: أنه كان كاتب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم منذ أسلم.
أخرجه مسلم في صحيحه.
وبعده حديث العرباض: «اللهم علم معاوية الكتاب».
وبعده حديث ابن أبي عمير: «اللهم اجعله هاديا مهديا».
 
Then Ibn Asakir mentioned many fabrications without a doubt on virtues of Muawiyah, I have not mentioned them, Against these fabrications I have mentioned authentic, good and powerful ahadith.
 
Ibn Asakir said: "And most authentic that was narrated in merits of Muawiya is the narration of Abu Hamza from ibn Abbas that he was scribe of prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) after he embraced Islam,it was reported by Muslim in his Sahih, and after that narration of al-Irbad: O Allah teach him the book, and after that narration of ibn Abu Umeyrah: O Allah make him guided, a guider". [Al Bidaya wal Nihaya 8/161]

 

 ad-Dahabi said:

وذكر المفضل الغلابي: أن زيد بن ثابت كان كاتب وحي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، وكان معاوية كاتبه فيما بينه وبين العرب. كذا قال. وقد صح عن ابن عباس قال: كنت ألعب، فدعاني رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وقال: ادع لي معاوية وكان يكتب الوحي. وقال معاوية بن صالح، عن يونس بن سيف، عن الحارث بن زياد، عن أبي رهم السماعي، عن العرباض بن سارية: سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وهو يدعونا إلى السحور: هلم إلى الغداء المبارك. ثم سمعته يقول: اللهم علم معاوية الكتاب والحساب، وقه العذاب. رواه أحمد في مسنده، وقد وهم فيه قتيبة، وأسقط منه أبا رهم والعرباض. وقيل أبو مسهر: ثنا سعيد بن عبد العزيز، عن ربيعة بن يزيد، عن عبد الرحمن بن أبي عميرة المزني وكان من أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال لمعاوية: اللهم علمه الكتاب والحساب، وقه العذاب. هذا الحديث رواته ثقات، لكن اختلفوا في صحبة عبد الرحمن، والأظهر أنه صحابي،
روي نحوه من وجوه أخر. وقال مروان الطاطري: ثنا سعيد بن عبد العزيز، حدثني ربيعة بن يزيد، سمعت عبد الرحمن بن أبي عميرة يقول: سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول
لمعاوية: اللهم اجعله هادياً مهدياً، واهده واهد به. رواه الوليد بن مسلم، وأبو مسهر، عن سعيد، نحوه، رواه الترمذي، عن الذهلي، عن أبي مسهر، وقال: حسن غريب. 
 
al Mufdal al Ghlabi mentioned: Zaid bin Thabit was Katib al Wahy for Rasool Allah peace be upon him, and Muawiyah used to write letters, BUT THIS IS AUTHENTICALLY proven from Ibn Abbas that Ibn Abbas that he said “I was playing when the Prophet called upon me and said to me ‘Go and call Muawiyah’ and he was a scribe of revelation.. Al-Aarbad bin Sariyah as-Sulamee ra reported that he heard the Prophet Peace be upon him saying : "O Allah ! Teach Muawya the Book and Math, and protect him from the Punishment ". (ad-dahabi said "This hadeeth is Powerful shahid" in Syar Ailam al Nubala 3/124)... Abdul Rahman bin Abi Umaira said that Prophet Peace be upon him said " O Allah ! Teach Muawya Math, and protect him from the Punishment " THIS HADITH (of Ibn abi Umairah) HAS TRUSTWORTHY NARRATORS  but there is difference of opinion on companionship of Abdul Rahman, but is is more correct that he was a sahabi... Abdul Rahman bin abi Umaira ra said “O Allah, make him (Muawiya ) guided, a guider, and guide people through him”... Tirmidhi said Its Hasan  Ghareeb. [Tareekh al Islam 4/309-310]
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

As I said before. A lot of ahaadith do serve politics and ideologies. The ideology of Ahl al-Sunnah is that all established rulers were right, no matter if they were tyrants or not. So while rationally seen certain words and deeds from some people were not fitting they still will defend those people no matter what the cost, because of their invented dogmas that would ensure power of the usurpers.

The Sahaba myth is one of these dogmas.
 

Quote

Sayid Qutb was not a scholar. Obviously he didn`t liked the Sahaba and he took sides with Shi`as on many matters because afterall he was a member of Muslim Broherhood, an organisation proven to be Freemasonic since it`s inception. Other ikhwani groups like Jamaat e Islami of India also dislikes many Sahaba and they take sides with Shi`as for the same reason. In fact Abul Ala Maududi (founder of jamaat) was best friends with Khomeini and he was deeply concerned with his revolution. 



Concerning Sayyid Qutb and Maududi. They were sunni's. Only Saudi-Wahhabi's who pretend they're sunni talk like that., because the MB and other organisations are independend from the Saud monarchy and therefore a threat to them.

Edited by Faruk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, Faruk said:

As I said before. A lot of ahaadith do serve politics and ideologies. The ideology of Ahl al-Sunnah is that all established rulers were right, no matter if they were tyrants or not. So while rationally seen certain words and deeds from some people were not fitting they still will defend those people no matter what the cost, because of their invented dogmas that would ensure power of the usurpers.

Then why did you quote Syed Qutb ? How do you know he did not said that to serve his own ideology ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
8 minutes ago, Faruk said:

You don't have to be a Masterchef to know the food doesn't taste right.

But you do have to be a physicist in order to understand rocket science. 

It`s very logical of you for making a comparison between eating and researching over 1000 years old text without being an expert. 

Edited by Student_of_Deen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
44 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

criticising Mu`awiyah does not makes someone a kafir, but it certainly proves that person to be misguided.

And cursing, critisizing or having a grudge against Imam Ali a.s. What does that make of someone?

'Ali observed: By Him Who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle (may peace and blessings be upon him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against me.

Sahih Muslim

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...