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In the Name of God بسم الله

Election of Uthman

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Faruk

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Salam,

Does anyone know which hadith or narration tells us about the Election of Uthman, especially the part wherein Imam Ali a.s. is asked to follow the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of the Prophet of Allah s.a.w.a.s. and the sirah of the first two caliphs?

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" Shi'a Muslims argue that the election should not have happened at all. They say that Muhammad had announced Ali to succeed him (see Succession to Muhammad) and that every successive choice of a different caliph was defiance of Muhammad's announcement. Ali did not desire power; he wanted to carry out the duties he had been given by his cousin Muhammad. Shi'a also deny that Ali gave his allegiance to Uthman. Ali is quoted saying:

But good Heavens! what had I to do with this "consultation"? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them (caliphs) that I was now considered akin to these ones (in this consultation)? Sermon of ash-Shiqshiqiyyah

and:

"You (Uthman) know very well that I deserve the caliphate more than anyone else" (Nahj al Balagha sermon 77)

( Here is the part you're looking for )

On the third day, 'Abdu 'r-Rahman ibn 'Awf withdrew his name and told 'Ali that he would make him caliph if; Ali pledged to follow the Book of Allah, the traditions of the Holy Prophet and the system of Abu Bakr and 'Umar. 'Abdu 'r-Rahman knew very well what his reply would be. 'Ali (as) said, "I follow the Book of Allah, the traditions of the Holy Prophet and my own beliefs."

Then 'Abdu'r-Rahman put the same conditions to 'Uthman, who readily accepted. Thus, 'Abdu 'r-Rahman declared 'Uthman to be the caliph. "

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_of_Uthman#Accounts

Edited by Hussaini624
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9 hours ago, Faruk said:

Salam,

Does anyone know which hadith or narration tells us about the Election of Uthman, especially the part wherein Imam Ali a.s. is asked to follow the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of the Prophet of Allah s.a.w.a.s. and the sirah of the first two caliphs?

Even Tarikh e Tabari reports this thing. 

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all 3 caliph in Islamic History is false they just took over and many loyal companions Sahaba of Prophet Muhammad Saww did not gave bayah too this 3 mafia gangsters and Hazrat Bilal RA was forced to leave the country and go to Syria after Prophet Muhammad Saww so who las loyal to Prophet Muhammad Saww was loyal to His Ahlulbayt AS

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17 minutes ago, Shahjee12145 said:

all 3 caliph in Islamic History is false they just took over and many loyal companions Sahaba of Prophet Muhammad Saww did not gave bayah too this 3 mafia gangsters and Hazrat Bilal RA was forced to leave the country and go to Syria after Prophet Muhammad Saww so who las loyal to Prophet Muhammad Saww was loyal to His Ahlulbayt AS

Brother you partially correct. You are right that first 3 caliphs were usurpers who falsely took over the rein of umma'h but they were not all. According to their history, Islamic caliphate starts with Abubakr and ends with Abdulmejid thani of Ottoman caliphate. 

Apart from caliphate of Hazrat Ali (as) and Imam Hasan (as), rest of the caliphs were wrong and usurped the rights of Ahlulbayt (as).

May Allah curse all the enemies of Ahlulbait (as).

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9 minutes ago, haidermpr said:

Brother you partially correct. You are right that first 3 caliphs were usurpers who falsely took over the rein of umma'h but they were not all. According to their history, Islamic caliphate starts with Abubakr and ends with Abdulmejid thani of Ottoman caliphate. 

Apart from caliphate of Hazrat Ali (as) and Imam Hasan (as), rest of the caliphs were wrong and usurped the rights of Ahlulbayt (as).

May Allah curse all the enemies of Ahlulbait (as).

bro i agree with u i meant banu umayya and banu abbasids not all bro :)

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3 hours ago, Shahjee12145 said:

all 3 caliph in Islamic History is false they just took over and many loyal companions Sahaba of Prophet Muhammad Saww did not gave bayah too this 3 mafia gangsters and Hazrat Bilal RA was forced to leave the country and go to Syria after Prophet Muhammad Saww so who las loyal to Prophet Muhammad Saww was loyal to His Ahlulbayt AS

Why were they allowed to take over in the first place ?

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3 hours ago, haidermpr said:

Brother you partially correct. You are right that first 3 caliphs were usurpers who falsely took over the rein of umma'h but they were not all. According to their history, Islamic caliphate starts with Abubakr and ends with Abdulmejid thani of Ottoman caliphate. 

The Rashidun (Righty guided) Caliphate start with Abu Bakr as Siddiq and ends with Syedna Hassan (May Allah be pleased with them all). The other empires and nations that came afterwards are refered as Caliphate by some and empires/kingdoms by others. 

How did Usupers managed to take over divinely appointed Imam ? Please explain. 

3 hours ago, haidermpr said:

Apart from caliphate of Hazrat Ali (as) and Imam Hasan (as), rest of the caliphs were wrong and usurped the rights of Ahlulbayt (as).

Didn`t Imam Hassan himself handed over the Khilafah to Ameer Mu`awiyah ? Then how did he usurped Khilafah ? 

 

3 hours ago, haidermpr said:

May Allah curse all the enemies of Ahlulbait (as).

Aameen. 

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17 hours ago, Hussaini624 said:

" Shi'a Muslims argue that the election should not have happened at all. They say that Muhammad had announced Ali to succeed him (see Succession to Muhammad) and that every successive choice of a different caliph was defiance of Muhammad's announcement. Ali did not desire power; he wanted to carry out the duties he had been given by his cousin Muhammad. Shi'a also deny that Ali gave his allegiance to Uthman. Ali is quoted saying:

But good Heavens! what had I to do with this "consultation"? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them (caliphs) that I was now considered akin to these ones (in this consultation)? Sermon of ash-Shiqshiqiyyah

and:

"You (Uthman) know very well that I deserve the caliphate more than anyone else" (Nahj al Balagha sermon 77)

( Here is the part you're looking for )

On the third day, 'Abdu 'r-Rahman ibn 'Awf withdrew his name and told 'Ali that he would make him caliph if; Ali pledged to follow the Book of Allah, the traditions of the Holy Prophet and the system of Abu Bakr and 'Umar. 'Abdu 'r-Rahman knew very well what his reply would be. 'Ali (as) said, "I follow the Book of Allah, the traditions of the Holy Prophet and my own beliefs."

Then 'Abdu'r-Rahman put the same conditions to 'Uthman, who readily accepted. Thus, 'Abdu 'r-Rahman declared 'Uthman to be the caliph. "

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_of_Uthman#Accounts

Yes my brother,

It was actually Wikipedia where I found it again but with no primary source.

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and secondly is that Ahlulbayt AS was not after power or anything like that they didnt care for such things and when they is Imam of All Momineen so why should they go and kill abu bakr and omar and uthman to take over caliphate and if they did you guys now would have said that he was after power but he was not he is Wali of Allah swt and does what Allah orders him to do and abu bakr and omar and uthman was after power and money only nothing else

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It has been said that Imam Ali (a.s) has never in his entire life abused power of imamate or khalifa. Probably the muslims thought he was weak and tried to take advantage of him. Little did they know, they were messing with a Lion sent by Allah, a Lion born in the kaaba, the Lion that beat Amr ibn Abd-wood.

Insha'Allah we can meet Asadullah in Jannah (heaven) along with the rest of his family and previous prophets.

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On 4/28/2017 at 6:41 PM, Student_of_Deen said:

The Rashidun (Righty guided) Caliphate start with Abu Bakr as Siddiq and ends with Syedna Hassan (May Allah be pleased with them all). The other empires and nations that came afterwards are refered as Caliphate by some and empires/kingdoms by others. 

How did Usupers managed to take over divinely appointed Imam ? Please explain. 

Didn`t Imam Hassan himself handed over the Khilafah to Ameer Mu`awiyah ? Then how did he usurped Khilafah ? 

 

Aameen. 

It needs detail answer at the moment I am busy with some other work. 

Insha Allah will provide you all details within 2-3 days.

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On ‎29‎-‎4‎-‎2017 at 7:17 PM, Panzerwaffe said:

If Hasan willingly handed over reins  to muawiyah then why isn't muawiyah a rightly guided caliph ???

Iblis was only expelled when he appeared to be a rebel. Allah knew already what was in his heart but it had to be known to the rest of creation as well so He made it apparent through a test.

Same with Muawiya who violated all if not many of the Hasan-Muawiya treaty. He kept on cursing the Ahl al-Bayt and intended to change khilafa into a monarchy by killing Imam Hasan a.s. and installing his son Yazid as his successor.

Edited by Faruk
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On 4/28/2017 at 6:41 PM, Student_of_Deen said:

The Rashidun (Righty guided) Caliphate start with Abu Bakr as Siddiq and ends with Syedna Hassan (May Allah be pleased with them all). The other empires and nations that came afterwards are refered as Caliphate by some and empires/kingdoms by others. 

How did Usupers managed to take over divinely appointed Imam ? Please explain. 

Didn`t Imam Hassan himself handed over the Khilafah to Ameer Mu`awiyah ? Then how did he usurped Khilafah ? 

 

Aameen. 

Before indulging deep into subject, we have to a gliding look to see what the major thoughts about caliphate-are

A)     Most of the Sunni believe that all the 4 caliphs after Prophet (S) were rightly guided whereas few others include Imam Hasan (as) too in rightly guided caliphs. According to this group, Prophet (S) did not left any will regarding caliphate and hence people had chosen Abubakr (rz) as caliph after that first caliph at his deathbed nominated Umar (rz) as second caliph. When Abululu attacked second caliph, he made a consultative committee of 6 people to choose caliph among themselves. Abdul Rahman ibn Auf (rz) who had final say as per the will of Umar (rz) in committee chosen Usman (rz) as third caliph. After murder of Usman (rz), majority of people present in Medina chosen Ali (as) as caliph. Though few Sunni even considers caliphate of Imam Hasan (as) too among rightly guided caliphate which lasted a few months. They believe caliphate is completely related to worldly affairs and therefore Prophet (S) didn’t nominate anyone and left it for his community to decide after his demise.

B)      Mutazillite also believe that caliphate is fully a worldly affair but they have some disagreement with Sunni brothers. Ibn Abil Hadeed who doesn’t require any introduction, was one of the learned scholar of this group and had written commentary on Nahjul Balagha. According to Ibn Abil Hadeed, Hazrat Ali (as) was best among the community after Prophet (S) and caliphate was his right but due to certain circumstances people denied him of his rights and chosen Abubakr (rz) as caliph instead of choosing Ali (as). According to this group, since Ali (as) after initial opposition to Abubakr accepted his caliphate and hence we are also accepting caliphate of Abubakr (rz) as correct one, if Ali (as) had not accepted caliphate, we would also have rejected other caliphs.

C)      Nakeseen, Qaseteen and Marekeen- These three groups came into existence after Hazrat Ali (as) became caliph, all these groups came into existence due to different reasons.

§  Nakeseen were those who first paid allegiance to Ali (as) and later broke their allegiance and oath. Hazrat Aisha (rz), Talha (rz) and Zubair (rz) and Marwan (la) were in this group. People of this group were mainly responsible for murder of Usman (rz) and after caliphate went to Ali (as) they started a cry for revenge of Usman’s blood. Hazrat Aisha (rz) had not paid allegiance to Hazrat Ali (as) as she left for Mecca during the revolt against Usman (rz) and from there she directly moved to Basra with an army to oppose the caliphate of Ali (as).

§  Qaseteen are those who raised the flag of opposition against Ali (as) on the name of revenge for Usman (rz). Muawiya (la), Walid (la), Marwan (la), Amr ibn Aa’s (la) were chief perpetrators of this group.

§  Marekeen are those who were with Ali (as) but opposed him when he accepted Muawiya arbitration though Ali (as) laid down a clear condition that arbitration is binding only if it is done though Quran and Sunna’ of Prophet (s). These people are also known as Kharijite.

D)     Shia which is second largest Muslim group after Sunni are of the faith that Prophet (s) nominated not only Ali (as) as his caliph and vicegerent but he clearly mentioned all the caliphs after him till the day of resurrection. No one has any right to alter the order of Prophet (s) and Allah. This group believe that there was clear order from Prophet (S) to follow Ali (as) after his departure from this world.

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Let us believe that Prophet (S) had not appointed any caliph after him that means he left this world for final abode without an heir in place leaving the whole community hanging in between without a proper guide. Assuming that is the true history, we all know that anything said, done or ordered by Prophet (s) is Sunnah’ and doing something opposed to that is Bidah’ (innovation). Majority of Muslim (Sunni of different sects) believe that Abu-Bakr had been elected by general consensus of Muslim community but when we study historical background that was not the case. There are certain questions which has to be answered in understanding the caliphate of Abu Bakr and other caliphs and they are as follows-

1.      Prophet (S) last wish

2.      Election of first Caliph

3.      How many companions of Prophet were present during the election?

4.      Funeral of Prophet (S) and presence of companions

5.      Appointment of Umar as Caliph by Abu Bakr

6.      Formation of Council by Umar to select third Caliph

7.      Caliphate to Ali (as)

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On 29/04/2017 at 5:25 PM, Shahjee12145 said:

they were not allowed brother they upsured it and took over when Ahlulbayts AS was busy with burying Prophet Muhammad Saww

You mean everyone betrayed AhlulBayt because they were busy for some time ? 

 

On 29/04/2017 at 5:31 PM, Shahjee12145 said:

and secondly is that Ahlulbayt AS was not after power or anything like that they didnt care for such things and when they is Imam of All Momineen so why should they go and kill abu bakr and omar and uthman to take over caliphate and if they did you guys now would have said that he was after power but he was not he is Wali of Allah swt and does what Allah orders him to do and abu bakr and omar and uthman was after power and money only nothing else

But wasn`t it their right ? Why didn`t the divinely appoint Imam fought for his right if he was the rightful successor of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) ? More importantly if he cannot even protect his own rights then how could he protect the rights of others ?

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On 29/04/2017 at 10:47 PM, Panzerwaffe said:

If Hasan willingly handed over reins  to muawiyah then why isn't muawiyah a rightly guided caliph ???

Because the Prophet (Peace be upon him) Prophesied that the Rightly guided Caliphate will only last 30 years. 

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19 minutes ago, haidermpr said:

Before indulging deep into subject, we have to a gliding look to see what the major thoughts about caliphate-are

A)     Most of the Sunni believe that all the 4 caliphs after Prophet (S) were rightly guided whereas few others include Imam Hasan (as) too in rightly guided caliphs.

the Sunni position is that the rightly guided caliphate was meant to last 30 years. So that means Syedina Hasan was also a rightly guided caliph because his rule for 6 months completed 30 years from the death of the Prophet (Peace be upon him).

What people believe out of their ignorance and misunderstanding doesn`t counts. Only what the authentic texts say counts. 

21 minutes ago, haidermpr said:

Let us believe that Prophet (S) had not appointed any caliph after him that means he left this world for final abode without an heir in place leaving the whole community hanging in between without a proper guide. Assuming that is the true history, we all know that anything said, done or ordered by Prophet (s) is Sunnah’ and doing something opposed to that is Bidah’ (innovation). Majority of Muslim (Sunni of different sects) believe that Abu-Bakr had been elected by general consensus of Muslim community but when we study historical background that was not the case. There are certain questions which has to be answered in understanding the caliphate of Abu Bakr and other caliphs and they are as follows-

1.      Prophet (S) last wish

2.      Election of first Caliph

3.      How many companions of Prophet were present during the election?

4.      Funeral of Prophet (S) and presence of companions

5.      Appointment of Umar as Caliph by Abu Bakr

6.      Formation of Council by Umar to select third Caliph

7.      Caliphate to Ali (as)

You`re asking to open more than 7 separate discussions when the op is specifically talking about the election of Uthman (May Allah be pleased with him).

Anyways if started so many things on this thread then it will be buried under replies from every direction. 

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7 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

You mean everyone betrayed AhlulBayt because they were busy for some time ? 

 

But wasn`t it their right ? Why didn`t the divinely appoint Imam fought for his right if he was the rightful successor of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) ? More importantly if he cannot even protect his own rights then how could he protect the rights of others ?

Dear Have you read the book of Sulaym ibn Qais Hilali?

Kindly read it to understand the situation and conditions at that time.

 

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1 minute ago, Student_of_Deen said:

the Sunni position is that the rightly guided caliphate was meant to last 30 years. So that means Syedina Hasan was also a rightly guided caliph because his rule for 6 months completed 30 years from the death of the Prophet (Peace be upon him).

What people believe out of their ignorance and misunderstanding doesn`t counts. Only what the authentic texts say counts. 

You`re asking to open more than 7 separate discussions when the op is specifically talking about the election of Uthman (May Allah be pleased with him).

Anyways if started so many things on this thread then it will be buried under replies from every direction. 

To understand the position of ahlulbait as with regard to caliphate and whether Sahaba had usurped their rights or not, one need to explore these things. Even you can find the answers of all these questions in sunni books. I had studied more sunni books to understand the truth on these subjects rather believing Shia sources blindly.

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13 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

You mean everyone betrayed AhlulBayt because they were busy for some time ? 

 

But wasn`t it their right ? Why didn`t the divinely appoint Imam fought for his right if he was the rightful successor of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) ? More importantly if he cannot even protect his own rights then how could he protect the rights of others ?

Imamat or Nubuwat or Risalat doesn't need to force others to believe in their rights. That is the beauty of Islam that no force is allowed in Deen. The people who believe in divinely guided Imam as will get their rewards and who don't believe will perish for their deeds. All Imam as told people about their positions now it is unto us to believe or don't believe just like it was unto people to believe or don't about the prophethood of all Prophets as. 

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8 minutes ago, haidermpr said:

Imamat or Nubuwat or Risalat doesn't need to force others to believe in their rights. That is the beauty of Islam that no force is allowed in Deen. The people who believe in divinely guided Imam as will get their rewards and who don't believe will perish for their deeds. All Imam as told people about their positions now it is unto us to believe or don't believe just like it was unto people to believe or don't about the prophethood of all Prophets as. 

If someone drags you out of your home and occupies it. Are you going to fight him and take your home back or stay on the streets ? Does Islam allows and encourages you to take your rights or not ?

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18 minutes ago, haidermpr said:

To understand the position of ahlulbait as with regard to caliphate and whether Sahaba had usurped their rights or not, one need to explore these things. Even you can find the answers of all these questions in sunni books. I had studied more sunni books to understand the truth on these subjects rather believing Shia sources blindly.

We have explored these things and if i`m not wrong there are several threads on this forum which has discussed these points in detail. 

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47 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

You mean everyone betrayed AhlulBayt because they were busy for some time ? 

 

But wasn`t it their right ? Why didn`t the divinely appoint Imam fought for his right if he was the rightful successor of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) ? More importantly if he cannot even protect his own rights then how could he protect the rights of others ?

why did Allah swt let pharaoh live so many years and rule didnt Allah Swt know pharaoh naozobillah what are you trying to say Imam Ali As was patience Man he didnt want power he wanted Allah Swt and did get him and abu bakr and omar and uthman was after power nothing else what did they do for Islam tell mee please brother? its funny how you guys defend their bad actions and how pharao challenged Allah Swt every day and every night why did Allah swt not destroy him quick as possible why did Allah Swt let him rule for so many years so if Imam Ali As did not do anything it must be a reason

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55 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

If someone drags you out of your home and occupies it. Are you going to fight him and take your home back or stay on the streets ? Does Islam allows and encourages you to take your rights or not ?

That was not the personal rights of Imam Ali as instead it was God ordained order which was declared by none other than Mohammad saww after the Hajj at Ghadir e Khom. 

Several prominent Ashab didn't paid allegiance to Abubakr after his caliphate including Maula Ali as and all bani hashim. 

Allah swt ask his wali to preach and not to force. 

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1 hour ago, Student_of_Deen said:

It is correct to us Sunnis and he asked me that question so I told him what we believe. 

There is one more Hadith among sunni brothers, what is your say about that?

Prophet said, “All my companions are like shining stars to whomsoever you follow they will lead you to salvation.”

plz let us know so that we can discuss it further

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44 minutes ago, Shahjee12145 said:

why did Allah swt let pharaoh live so many years and rule didnt Allah Swt know pharaoh naozobillah what are you trying to say Imam Ali As was patience Man he didnt want power he wanted Allah Swt and did get him and abu bakr and omar and uthman was after power nothing else what did they do for Islam tell mee please brother? its funny how you guys defend their bad actions and how pharao challenged Allah Swt every day and every night why did Allah swt not destroy him quick as possible why did Allah Swt let him rule for so many years so if Imam Ali As did not do anything it must be a reason

What kind of argument is that brother ? Allah Subhana watala allowed Pharoah to rule because he wanted to test people as well as the Pharoah himself. What does any of that has to do with a man willingly letting others rob him of his rights ?

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21 minutes ago, haidermpr said:

There is one more Hadith among sunni brothers, what is your say about that?

Prophet said, “All my companions are like shining stars to whomsoever you follow they will lead you to salvation.”

plz let us know so that we can discuss it further

The Hadith My companions are like stars...... is a very week Hadith, some scholars even considered it as a fabricated one. Ahmad bin Hanbal (Rahimahullah) said: This Hadith is not correct. Imam Ibn Abdul Barr said: The chain of this Hadith is not reliable. Ibn Hazm said: The narration is disreputable. Al-Albani said, It is a fabricated Hadith.

Edited by Student_of_Deen
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26 minutes ago, haidermpr said:

That was not the personal rights of Imam Ali as instead it was God ordained order which was declared by none other than Mohammad saww after the Hajj at Ghadir e Khom. 

Then it makes all the more reason to take it back because it was the God given right of Imam Ali according to you. 

 

27 minutes ago, haidermpr said:

Several prominent Ashab didn't paid allegiance to Abubakr after his caliphate including Maula Ali as and all bani hashim. 

They all paid their allegiance laters including Imam Ali. 

 

28 minutes ago, haidermpr said:

Allah swt ask his wali to preach and not to force. 

Very poor excuse to let go of your God given right. If somebody stole your ancestors property then you will probably fight them legally all your life. But the God given right to succession was forcibly taken away but Imam Ali never even publicly complained about ? Even when he became the Caliph ? 

Sorry but I find this very hard to digest. 

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