Regarding Second Marriage In Our Society

[The Stone Of Najaf]

Salam Brothers and Sisters,

I am a 24 year old girl I have a job and currently living with my parents, obviously my parents wants me to get married to someone of their own choice, but I am interested in marrying a person who is 26 years old, is married and already has two children. I don't mind his first wife or his dear children and I am aware of all the rights she has over him.

His current wife and children lives with his family in another city while he is currently living in the same city as me for 6 months now. He has good relationship with his wife and provide everything his wife ask for, but according to him he needs attention and respect from his life partner, also they got married young so that level of understanding which every couple should have has failed to develop between the two. Unfortunately or fortunately whatever you call it, that understanding, respect and attention has developed between him and me in a very short while and we got interested in each other and now wants to get married.

The problem is that, my parents will never allow me to get married to him because of our society, his parents and wife will also not allow him, he has suggested that we should marry secretly then tell my parents about it, and then after about 2 years or after I bear his child he will inform his parents and wife so that my position is equal to his first wife.

Islam has allowed 4 marriages and he has the right to get married to any woman without his wife's consent , until he provide all of his wives equally. I have no such intentions that he leaves his first wife, I have no issue that he gives time to his first wife, continue his sexual relationship with his wife , spend time with his children but his first wife can't and maybe she will want to leave him, and just to avoid that he wants to keep our marriage a secret for sometime.

I know its a selfish move for us , but sometimes we just have to live for our self and nikah is the only thing which requires strong consent of the bride and groom.

I want you to offer some advice in The light of Islam, am I doing right? I know our society will never accept our marriage but I have to answer My Allah not this society , I want to make sure that I am not sabotaging the rights of his first wife and according to Islam, further planning to commit any kind of sin which I have to answer to Allah.

According to Islam can I marry such person? Is my decision of nikah first and telling my parents after will be the right move?

Please offer your advice , thanks in advance.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, The Stone Of Najaf said:

The problem is that, my parents will never allow me to get married to him because of our society, his parents and wife will also not allow him, he has suggested that we should marry secretly then tell my parents about it, and then after about 2 years or after I bear his child he will inform his parents and wife so that my position is equal to his first wife.

Depends on which marja you follow but according to most of them if you are a virgin (not been in a nikkah before) then you cannot marry without your father's consent. 

[DigitalUmmah]

OP dont marry him. especially not without your fathers permission I am almost certain that every single marja says you are not allowed to marry without your guardians permission if you are a virgin or living in their house. 

I happen to know a guy in manchester who has two wives. they all live together. its weird, especially for Pakis. maybe it works for them because theyre older or something I dont know, its not my business. I doubt any desi woman would be ok sharing her husband with someone else, especially when it comes to kids. if you have kids with him, will you be ok with him raising someone elses kids for half the week? 

[Sumerian]

If you have your father's permission you can marry him.

[Muslimthought97]

Not just on fathers permission but I just want to point out, if you do go ahead with this, you will most likely damage your relationship with your family, his family will fall apart if their not happy about it and his relationship with his family. Everything will crumble if theres is not mutual respect across all parties, whatever happens, I really hope this isn't a romantic fantasy, excuse my jumps to conclusions but you have to be in the situation to understand it and I'm basing it on what I have understood. Ijust want you to contemplate the ripple effects your decision may have...

Edited April 27, 2017 by HayderM

[The Stone Of Najaf]

10 hours ago, starlight said:

Depends on which marja you follow but according to most of them if you are a virgin (not been in a nikkah before) then you cannot marry without your father's consent. 

According to my knowledge, Islam says that if father or guardian does not give consent to the nikkah due to any non-islamic reason (based on custom and tradition of the society) the girl CAN marry without the consent.

[notme]

6 hours ago, The Stone Of Najaf said:

but according to him he needs attention and respect from his life partner, also they got married young so that level of understanding which every couple should have has failed to develop between the two.

This raises my red flags. Nothing wrong with a second marriage as long as all affected parties are in agreement, but if he can't have a "level of understanding" with one wife, how can he expect to have it with two? Before you even consider marrying him, he needs to have a very good relationship with his first wife. Otherwise would be unjust to all involved. 

[The Stone Of Najaf]

3 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

OP dont marry him. especially not without your fathers permission I am almost certain that every single marja says you are not allowed to marry without your guardians permission if you are a virgin or living in their house. 

I happen to know a guy in manchester who has two wives. they all live together. its weird, especially for Pakis. maybe it works for them because theyre older or something I dont know, its not my business. I doubt any desi woman would be ok sharing her husband with someone else, especially when it comes to kids. if you have kids with him, will you be ok with him raising someone elses kids for half the week? 

Obviously our plan is not to live together as a big family, like I mentioned earlier, his employment is in the city where I live in and his first wife lives in other city away from him. His plan after we get married is to live with me and visit his other family once every 3-4 months and provide equal amount of money to both of his wives.

I have no issue with that, he can visit his family when ever he likes but I honestly wants him to live with me longer... Is my this thinking right or not I am really in a dilemma here.

[notme]

12 hours ago, The Stone Of Najaf said:

has suggested that we should marry secretly 

No. No. And No! 

Nobody should ever marry anybody secretly. The only reason for secret marriage is for one or the other to be able to do things that are unethical. If you aren't proud to announce your spouse you should not marry them!

No woman in her right mind would ever agree to a secret marriage and no respectable man would suggest it!

[The Stone Of Najaf]

1 hour ago, HayderM said:

Not just on fathers permission but I just want to point out, if you do go ahead with this, you will most likely damage your relationship with your family, his family will fall apart if their not happy about it and his relationship with his family. Everything will crumble if theres is not mutual respect across all parties, whatever happens, I really hope this isn't a romantic fantasy, excuse my jumps to conclusions but you have to be in the situation to understand it and I'm basing it on what I have understood. Ijust want you to contemplate the ripple effects your decision may have...

Trust me this is not some romantic fantasy I am 24 and he is 26 and way more mature than his age, we are sane adults but really wants to get married because we feel like we need each other, not in any sexual manner but for other kind of support in life. We know the consequences our decision we cause and it will be only because of our practiced customs.

What I really wants to know is According to Islam is our moves right or wrong?

[The Stone Of Najaf]

5 hours ago, notme said:

No. No. And No! 

Nobody should ever marry anybody secretly. The only reason for secret marriage is for one or the other to be able to do things that are unethical. If you aren't proud to announce your spouse you should not marry them!

No woman in her right mind would ever agree to a secret marriage and no respectable man would suggest it!

The only reason for keeping it a secret for sometime is to avoid damaging his first marriage, where as we will inform my parents as soon as we have perform nikkah, we have not planned to keep it a secret forever and such things can never be hidden.

As of your previous reply , they both have failed to create that understanding and he is in need of it that's why he was unintentionally looking for it and found that in me.

Its not necessary that every married men or women is happy with his/her marriage but that doesn't mean he/she should leave him, and if Islam has allowed 4 marriages why can't he look for what he is in need in some other girl with full intentions of getting married to her?

[notme]

How is a man who is unhappy with his first wife so he secretly marries another going to be just to anyone? Seems unjust to both. 

Having a favorite wife is injustice.

Having a secret wife is injustice.

This will not go well if you proceed.

Before he marries another, he needs to have a good relationship with his first wife. Further, his first wife needs to know about and accept the second marriage. Finally, again, nobody should ever marry anyone secretly.

However, it is not wajib for him to gain approval of his first wife before taking another. He must give both wives equal resources, time, and attention. It is wajib for him to gain your father's approval before you can marry him if you have never been married before.

[Abu Hadi]

According to Islamic Teaching, the way I understand them, 

1) You should find a man with the best Aklaq and Taqwa and one who can support you financially. 

If the best one you can find that has these qualities is already married, you should consider it. 

But also you should take some things into consideration.

First, as others have said, according to most marjaa' if you are a virgin, living at home with your family you need your fathers permission to get married. The exception to this would be if he voluntarily withdraws from this issues and gives wiqalat to you for this (I've never heard of a father doing this, but I guess it's theoretically possible). The other exception is if he refuses a man who has good Aklaq and Deen, after he has done his investigation on these issues. If he is turning him down just because he is already married, this is not valid in Islam. His objection must be based on Aklaq or Deen only. If his objection is based on those two criteria, his objection is valid, and you cannot marry him, otherwise if his objection is based on something other than that, you can. 

Second, while he does not need his first wife's permission (I am assuming you are muslima here), 

you have to consider how this will affect his existing family. This is not a fiqh issue, but an aklaq issue. If you believe that it will basically create huge problems in his existing family, possibly leading to his current wife divorcing him and his family breaking apart, you should refrain from doing it out of good aklaq, although from a fiqh point of view you can do it anyway. 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

Not much good ever comes out of doing things secretly, ESPECIALLY when it comes to relationships, especially when its kept secret from the people who TRULY care about you - your parents.

Many things in islam are allowed but it does not always mean that anything that is allowed to do is always the best options to do. There are some unwritten laws of right and wrong which depends on the situation and time, they would in my opinion actually define you as a person.

I would personally strongly advise you not to go on with this.

I think this will leave so much destruction in its wake, so many people will get hurt and it is very very very disrespectful towards your parents to not even bring this up before you marry him, its like you couldn't care less about their opinion. If I was your father it would truly break my heart to see my daughter doing something like that without even involving me. Think about tomorrow, how will this affect everyone?

[Lion33]

You should marry him. If the prophet pbuh had multiple wifes than its ok. If Ali pbuh had multiple wives than its okay. Who cares what society says because they also say gays can marry and thats cool but a man cant marry two wives but its okay if he cheats on one, you see my point? Society is the worst in all honesty if I see society walking one way I usually walk the other because of the misguidance of most ppl. The next issue is if your parents dont approve because of the fact that he has another wife then this is not a valid reason and you can still do the nikka. Your local shia imam can do the nikka for you if the parents are not being just. If on the other hand the guy is not religious and not a good person and is trying to use you temporarily or something and your parents recognize that than you should listen to them. But ya if the parents aren't being fair than you MUST go to an imam and have them do the nikka for you.

 

edit: Also he should inform his first wife about it as doing this in secret is not proper. But he should only inform his first wife if you and him have agreed to this marriage and have found a valid way to do the nikkah. No matter what he has to first come and talk to the parents, you have to at least try that before trying other options. I just wanted to let you know that it is possible if the parents say no due to an unjust reason but its fard that you at least try to get them to talk. Me personally I have already told my wive that if A situation comes and I need to get another wife I would and I hope he has shared those opinions with his wife as well rather than do things secretly and all of a sudden.

[Lion33]

and also any guy that sees a problem with multiple wives must have a small "house" or something lol

[Qa'im]

Polygamy is halal, no one is saying that it's not. However, this particular case seems problematic to me. It sounds like he's just having marital problems with his first wife. If these problems go, then he may not want/need you anymore. If you feel that marrying him would make these problems worse, or bring new problems to his children, then I wouldn't advise it. It may be halal but it does not mean it's a good idea, especially if it can lead to the committing of makrooh and haram between him and his first wife.

As for keeping it secret from your parents: he needs your father's permission. If he says "no" for an unislamic reason (and I don't mean hypothetically, you need to actually ask him, and he needs to actually say no and actually provide a reason that is completely unislamic), then take the issue to a Shi`a judge or shaykh. Don't make the decision by yourself, that is not advisable.

Also, you want to keep it a secret until 2 years after having a child? That sounds ridiculous.

On a sidenote, in my anecdotal experience, secret marriages never benefits a woman.

[Guest]

@The Stone Of Najaf Reiterating what's already been said. 

1. There is nothing wrong with polygamy if done the proper way.

2. The proper way is to a. Ask your father's permission b. Inform his wife.

Not informing his wife or your parents so as not to hurt them is a pretty lame excuse. They will find out eventually and will be hurt more if they find out by accident before you have a chance to tell them.

Secretly taking another wife because he has problems with the first is a backdoor approach. It's not something a man of who cares about your honour would do. 

@Yama Nemati Any example of our Prophet (saw) doing secret marriages with virgins?

[The Stone Of Najaf]

@Yama Nemati @Qa'im @Abu Hadi @notme @starlight @IbnSina Thank you so much for your advice , what I understand and now planned to do is try to inform the whole situation to my parents before taking any big step, and analyze whether the reasons of them refusing is Islamic or Un-Islamic. What I have judged him is that he bears good character and have good akhlaq and most importantly does not give up on things so easily.

I admit he has problems with his first wife but they are not huge problems, his first marriage was a love-marriage and he still do loves her dearly and he has no plans of leaving her , I don't want to do gheebat (Allah forbid) but according to him the main things which keeps them apart is her foul mouth and harsh words, he also admits that the faults are from both sides.Anyway these are their personal affairs and I am not the one to judge both of them. The main thing which I feel is that he is in need of support emotionally , which is the duty of a life partner to provide , so If he has found that support in me and I am willing to support him and it can be happen in a legal and Islamic way so why should he still be deprived from it? Is it a bit unfair of the society?

[DigitalUmmah]

2 hours ago, The Stone Of Najaf said:

@Yama Nemati @Qa'im @Abu Hadi @notme @starlight @IbnSina Thank you so much for your advice , what I understand and now planned to do is try to inform the whole situation to my parents before taking any big step, and analyze whether the reasons of them refusing is Islamic or Un-Islamic. What I have judged him is that he bears good character and have good akhlaq and most importantly does not give up on things so easily.

I admit he has problems with his first wife but they are not huge problems, his first marriage was a love-marriage and he still do loves her dearly and he has no plans of leaving her , I don't want to do gheebat (Allah forbid) but according to him the main things which keeps them apart is her foul mouth and harsh words, he also admits that the faults are from both sides.Anyway these are their personal affairs and I am not the one to judge both of them. The main thing which I feel is that he is in need of support emotionally , which is the duty of a life partner to provide , so If he has found that support in me and I am willing to support him and it can be happen in a legal and Islamic way so why should he still be deprived from it? Is it a bit unfair of the society?

sister, if a load of different people online who do not benefit in any way from lying to you, and who do not agree on anything under normal conditions, ALL are unanimous in telling you this is a terrible idea, you should probably listen to us. most of us are a lot older than you as well, we have seen situations like this before. you are going to be his booty call until he bores of you, then he will dump you. you have more value than being his secret little piece on the side. find a decent momin brother who your parents approve of. the world is full of them. you can do better for yourself than this. you are better than this mashaAllah. 

[A true Sunni]

16 hours ago, The Stone Of Najaf said:

According to my knowledge, Islam says that if father or guardian does not give consent to the nikkah due to any non-islamic reason (based on custom and tradition of the society) the girl CAN marry without the consent.

OK lets step back and look at this objectively.

He is prepared to lie and deceive his wife and the mother of his children.

And you who claim to be mature enough to find your own partner are happy to aid him in this deception and betrayal.

He sounds like a man who wants his cake and eat it.

Fast forward 5 years and he tires of you because you have grown apart and the cant bear the anguished cries of his first wife and kids.

He then moves to another city with a marvelous job opportunity.

2 years he has a 3rd wife with another kid in tow.

Methinks what you sow so shall you reap.

If he deceives his first wife he will deceive you and you will noone else to blame but yourself 

[DigitalUmmah]

2 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

If he deceives his first wife he will deceive you and you will noone else to blame but yourself 

nail on the head. theres a saying that goes "If they can do it with you, they can do it to you".

what surprises me the most is that a young, decent momin sister cannot find a suitable husband so is lowering her status to this. what on earth lies or favours has he done on her to convince her that this is a good idea. 

[Lion33]

8 hours ago, starlight said:

 

@Yama Nemati Any example of our Prophet (saw) doing secret marriages with virgins?

AstigfuruAllah I never endorsed any type of secret marriage. I dont know of any secret marriages he had done and I wouldn't support secret marriage for anyyone so I dont know why you would ask me that. I said she should ask her parents and if they say no for an unjust reason then her local shia imam can make the judgment of what to do and that is the fairest and most logical way to go about this whole situation inshallah. One thing I wanted to say is that I think men marrying multiple woman is a solution for many of the problems in society today.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Yama Nemati said:

....

Then please don't advice her to marry this guy. If he was a good person he wouldn't have agreed to a secret marriage. 

[Lion33]

Just now, starlight said:

Then please don't advice her to marry this guy. If he was a good person he wouldn't have agreed to a secret marriage. 

everbody makes mistakes and one mistake doesnt make a person bad or whatever. Also notice I left the marriage in the hands of the parents and imam. Since I dont know them personally and most people here dont know them we cant make a judgment about them, maybe the guy is a saint or he could be a shaytan for all we know. One thing is it seems like she likes him and she should go to her parents who care about her and see what their judgment is and if it is unjust than the imams are the best judges and will make a better decision than anybody on this thread, wAllahu Alam

[A true Sunni]

I thought about this long and hard my advice to you is marry him. You both deserve each other 100%. Your post indicated that inherently you are selfish unthinking and prepared to lie and deceive to get your 'man' . You deserve each other. I just feel sorry for his wife . This topic isn't about second marriages it's about trust honesty lies and deception

Edited April 28, 2017 by A true Sunni

[Lion33]

1 hour ago, A true Sunni said:

I thought about this long and hard my advice to you is marry him. You both deserve each other 100%. Your post indicated that inherently you are selfish unthinking and prepared to lie and deceive to get your 'man' . You deserve each other. I just feel sorry for his wife . This topic isn't about second marriages it's about trust honesty lies and deception

Also I feel like you should probably hear the guys side of the story before you make this statement because anybody that knows anything about woman will tell you that woman are ALL professional and experts liars lol. There is a show on netflix that is called pretty little liars and thats what woman are at the end of the day... lol

[notme]

29 minutes ago, Yama Nemati said:

anybody that knows anything about woman will tell you that woman are ALL professional and experts liars lol. There is a show on netflix

Maybe you should turn off the TV and get out around real people. 

[Lion33]

55 minutes ago, notme said:

Maybe you should turn off the TV and get out around real people. 

I dont watch the show my wife does lol, and in real life every woman I met lies alot but they think its little white lies but to me little white lies add up and make you a big time liar. Of course maybe not every woman is like this but just from my experience I have noticed that many of them are. Allahu Alam maybe your the exception Inshallah.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Yama Nemati

[notme]

25 minutes ago, Yama Nemati said:

t just from my experience I have noticed that many of the are. Allahu Alam maybe your the exception Inshallah.

I would have recommended changing who you associate with, but I guess it's too late for that. I'm not the exception, I don't associate with anyone who is like you describe. I was taught by my parents to value honesty and to demand it of my friends. If someone isn't trustworthy, I don't need them in my life. 

As for the question in the opening post, I have no problem with consensual polygamy. I have a problem with secrecy and other forms of dishonesty. 

[Lion33]

2 minutes ago, notme said:

I would have recommended changing who you associate with, but I guess it's too late for that. I'm not the exception, I don't associate with anyone who is like you describe. I was taught by my parents to value honesty and to demand it of my friends. If someone isn't trustworthy, I don't need them in my life. 

As for the question in the opening post, I have no problem with consensual polygamy. I have a problem with secrecy and other forms of dishonesty. 

lol your 100 % correct.... mashallah jazakallahkhair

[A true Sunni]

1 hour ago, Yama Nemati said:

Also I feel like you should probably hear the guys side of the story before you make this statement because anybody that knows anything about woman will tell you that woman are ALL professional and experts liars lol. There is a show on netflix that is called pretty little liars and thats what woman are at the end of the day... lol

What's there to know. If he is contemplating marrying her and keeping it a secret he is party to it. it doesnt matter whose idea it is or who is driving it, they are 24 and 26 . 'Mature' enough to get married 'immature' enough to try and avoid the consequences.

They deserve each other. She/He wants to make it public on the birth of their baby. Not even mentally mature enough to have kids. 

But as a woman she will carry the consequences and others will laugh at her and say she got what she deserved. I am just telling her what she will face in 5 years time. He will be looking at wife 3 by that time  

[Soldiers and Saffron]

4 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

I thought about this long and hard my advice to you is marry him. You both deserve each other 100%. Your post indicated that inherently you are selfish unthinking and prepared to lie and deceive to get your 'man' . You deserve each other. I just feel sorry for his wife . This topic isn't about second marriages it's about trust honesty lies and deception

No need to be mean brother.

[A true Sunni]

38 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

No need to be mean brother.

Am I really being mean or very generous hearted. I am giving her a small glimpse of what people will think of her.

You can argue about the right and wrongs from a religious point of view. This has nothing to do with religion its about lies and deceptions.

She says she wont reveal the marriage until a baby is born because that will put her on an equal footing with the first wife.

So she acknowledges that she is going to be stealing the rights of the first wife and children until she has a child herself.

The more times he spends with her now and in the future till a child is born is stolen rights of the first wife and children ( in her eyes).

I can see her scheming in a few years time to get him to divorce the first wife so then she can him all to herself. Of course she will then claim he is neglecting her kids in favour of his first wives kids.

Is it better to tell the truth in these cases or quote the letter of the law not the spirit 

[Islandsandmirrors]

Don't marry him. 

Itll only bring hostility from his first wife, and he is just using you. 

Secret marriages ARE A HUGE RED FRACKING FLAG. You have no idea. 

You deserve a man who wants the world to know who he's in love with. You're not going to get that from him.