What can be done to combat poverty?

[LeftCoastMom]

^ It isn't the over-crowding, as you said,it is the overuse of resources by a small part of the planet called the " First World".

[hasanhh]

@LeftCoastMom

Leftie, tribal similarities to communalism is no where near the same as industrial level communism.

ls the DPRK like your tribal system?

[notme]

4 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

What this part means is that the World is not as overcrowded as the media pretends.

Thanks for the clarification.  I was confused.

I'm planning to talk about overpopulation later, I think.  I'm actually planning to go through the "UN Sustainable Development Agenda", one goal at a time.  Regardless of the politics of the UN, the goals seem worth evaluating, from what I've read so far.  If I remember correctly, one of the goals is related to population.  

http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/development-agenda/

But right now, we acknowledge that these issues are interrelated, but let's try to focus on one at a time.

Edited April 18, 2017 by notme
Added link.

[LeftCoastMom]

17 minutes ago, notme said:

@hasanhh

I don't trust government.  Any government.  I don't trust politicians.  But I do think if they see that it becomes in their best interest to do good, they will do good.  I think waiting for it to start with them or relying on them, or relying on the mega-rich, or relying on anyone else, is destined to fail.  The world is only going to change when WE change it.

1.  Taxes would be a start, but that relies on government to vote against what they perceive to be their best interests. I don't think WE can do much about taxes. 

 

Technically ,in the US, WE are the government. 

But " we" is a lot of humans.

I find " the government" works a lot better for me when more people like me are in office. Lol.

[Christianlady]

Just now, notme said:

How many slaves did not have the opportunity that Mr. Douglass was given?  

Salam Notme,

Most.

Quote

How many were never taught even the fundamentals of reading?

Most. 

I don't remember if Frederick Douglass taught other people to read? Do you remember? I need to research that. However, definitely it is important for people who have gained knowledge in a poor or struggling to survive community to teach others in their community, if at all possible.

It's very possible however that Frederick Douglass could not teach his community - thanks to slavery. Definitely, his actions as a result of his educating himself helped him in his fight for freedom for his people - so that they could receive a quality education.

Quote

Maybe some people could decipher written language without being taught the letters and sounds, but not most.  

True.I'm a tutor, and English drives me crazy lol because of all the exceptions. I don't know how many times I've been asked by my students why "enough" for example is not written "enuf." My answer: English is crazy. Spanish is a much better language in my opinion than English, because the words are mostly spelled phonetically.  

Quote

Education - or at least access to education - should be a fundamental human right.  

Amen!!!!

Quote

Unfortunately, knowledge is often tied up by politics.

Excellent point. And, I know you don't like politics, but oftentimes the way to change politics is by getting involved in them. But, it is true that politics are ruled by the rich, so it's very hard to get involved in them without having rich friends who want something from you, without even getting into the fact of the harsh criticism involved in the political arena.

Peace and God bless you

[hasanhh]

Just now, notme said:

Thanks for the clarification.  I was confused.

I'm planning to talk about overpopulation later, I think.  I'm actually planning to go through the "UN Sustainable Development Agenda", one goal at a time.  Regardless of the politics of the UN, the goals seem worth evaluating, from what I've read so far.  If I remember correctly, one of the goals is related to population.  

Maybe you can use this, something my Dad use to 'preach' and l had in collegian readings a couple of times.

Civilizations destroy 'fall' after they have destroyed their agricultural base.

[notme]

Just now, LeftCoastMom said:

Technically ,in the US, WE are the government. 

But " we" is a lot of humans.

I find " the government" works a lot better for me when more people like me are in office. Lol.

No, most definitely WE are not the government!  The government might be intended to represent us, but it's a group of isolated, ignorant, oligarchs, who have no idea how the rest of us live.  They need to have their bubbles popped so they know what they are supposed to be representing.  I wonder how many would stay in office if they knew US. 

[Christianlady]

2 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Technically ,in the US, WE are the government. 

Salam LeftCoastMom,

That's how it's supposed to be!!!

Quote

But " we" is a lot of humans.

Yep!!!

Quote

I find " the government" works a lot better for me when more people like me are in office. Lol.

Ahem... Hint hint!!!

Peace and God bless you

[LeftCoastMom]

3 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

@LeftCoastMom

Leftie, tribal similarities to communalism is no where near the same as industrial level communism.

ls the DPRK like your tribal system?

No, but that was one of my points. However, I think some governments may approach it better. People from here who have traveled to the Scandinavian countries ( albeit to meet with the Samis over problems they are having ) think their systems are more keyed to the needs of their citizens. I'm using " commie" as a tongue-in-cheek term, not a literal one.

[Christianlady]

19 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

What this part means is that the World is not as overcrowded as the media pretends.

Salam Hasanhh,

Aye. So true. It's not.

Some people use the fear tactic of claiming that refugees will take away our jobs, but that's not true. Jobs can be created.

The cycle of life helps prevent overpopulation. While definitely people are living longer now, the cycle of life continues. And interestingly, even though it's safer now in modern countries to have babies, many women are opting not to have many children, or any children. (And, some are barren, like me.)

Peace and God bless you

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Christianlady

[LeftCoastMom]

5 minutes ago, notme said:

No, most definitely WE are not the government!  The government might be intended to represent us, but it's a group of isolated, ignorant, oligarchs, who have no idea how the rest of us live.  They need to have their bubbles popped so they know what they are supposed to be representing.  I wonder how many would stay in office if they knew US. 

I'm talking about the theory. Lol.

People with power tend to hang on to it and money = power in America and elsewhere. This is not a new thing. I don't think there ever was a " good old days" when " the people" were in completely charge against the moneyed interest in this nation-state. This nation was built on genocide, slavery, exploitation, and a bunch of other unsavory things. 

Time to push in another direction. I just shared how we pushed around here. Sorry, don't have much time now...will be back later.

Grandma duty calls.

[hasanhh]

4 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

No, but that was one of my points. However, I think some governments may approach it better. People from here who have traveled to the Scandinavian countries ( albeit to meet with the Samis over problems they are having ) think their systems are more keyed to the needs of their citizens. I'm using " commie" as a tongue-in-cheek term, not a literal one.

As, according to SC timing, l posted l0 hours ago, your writing "l think some gov'ts may approach  it better" is to me a "pinko-progressive" fantasy.

 if l hurt your feelings. 

Remember Sweden back inn the 70s and how that became an international laughing stock?

[notme]

1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

As, according to SC timing, l posted l0 hours ago, your writing "l think some gov'ts may approach  it better" is to me a "pinko-progressive" fantasy.

 if l hurt your feelings. 

Remember Sweden back inn the 70s and how that became an international laughing stock?

I don't mind being accused of "pinko-progressive" fantasy.  I'm discussing here to get ideas because I'm unwilling to rule the situation hopeless, and that, in itself, might be optimism to the point of fantasy.  

[hasanhh]

1 minute ago, notme said:

I don't mind being accused of "pinko-progressive" fantasy.  I'm discussing here to get ideas because I'm unwilling to rule the situation hopeless, and that, in itself, might be optimism to the point of fantasy.  

l wrote to Leftie, @notme

lf you want ideas, post some Qs or Thoughts and l'II try to help. lnclude your intended point or theme/sub-theme.

[Christianlady]

3 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

As, according to SC timing, l posted l0 hours ago, your writing "l think some gov'ts may approach  it better" is to me a "pinko-progressive" fantasy.

 if l hurt your feelings. 

Remember Sweden back inn the 70s and how that became an international laughing stock?

Salam Hasanhh,

Out of curiosity, why is Sweden used so much to counter inviting poor Muslim refugees into the USA?

I got so upset one day with church friends, who were supporting not allowing Muslim refugees into the USA. One of the points they used is that "Muslim refugees rape Swedish women" and thus they cannot be trusted in America.

This upsets me when people generalize all Muslims because of what some do.

My counter was, guess what? Some American Christians rape American women. Should we generalize all American Christian men because of what some do?? Obviously, rapists in both groups are disobeying God.

To the economic/political point, Sweden's model is not perfect, but it is indirectly or directly based on a caring, compassionate system that desires to help the poor. Personally, I think the USA and other nations can learn from Sweden and other country's systems that strive to help the poor among them. We don't need to "throw the baby out with the bath water", as the saying goes.

Peace and God bless you

[hasanhh]

@Christianlady 

You evidently do not know what l referred to.

Sweden in the 60's and 70s engaged in this near-commie-styled socialist equality garbage. Some tax rates on income were as high a 107%  ---yep, you read that correctly. Of course these people left Sweden and took what money they could with them and abandoned businesses left behind. In the end, Sweden became a basket case.

This has nothing to do with refugees now.

[LeftCoastMom]

@hasannhh.  Lol. No hurt feelings at all. We are used to it. Back the early 50's before I was born, the dominant culture BIA types, horrified by our " communistic " lifestyle, came out and pounded on the tribal chairs' desks and told them we ought to form " business councils" and be good capitalists. So eventually many years later we did firm a " business council", and a couple of businesses, and then shared proceeds from that among the community. They leave us alone now. We are hopeless. I think Sweden still ranks above the US on livability indexes.

[Christianlady]

Just now, hasanhh said:

@Christianlady 

You evidently do not know what l referred to.Sweden in the 60's and 70s engaged in this near-commie-styled socialist equality garbage.

Oh, no. I am referring to recent events in Sweden. I assume that Sweden, like the USA has changed a lot since the 60's and 70's.

Quote

Some tax rates on income were as high a 107%  ---yep, you read that correctly.

Yikes! That is ridiculous.

Quote

Of course these people left Sweden and took what money they could with them and abandoned businesses left behind.

Well, it's good to learn from mistakes. Hopefully Sweden learned from that.

Quote

In the end, Sweden became a basket case.

Do you think that Sweden is a basket case now, or has Sweden learned from mistakes and moved on?

Quote

This has nothing to do with refugees now.

Since this thread is about combating poverty, the refugee status is important because most refugees are poor. And, Sweden in recent years is known for taking in many refugees, especially Muslim refugees.

Again, some of my church friends who oppose inviting poor refugees to the USA (which could help them combat poverty) use Sweden as an example of why not to do so.

Peace and God bless you

 

 

[hasanhh]

@Christianlady   l do not understand what refugees have to do with "combating poverty" and an indigenous socio-economic order?

[hasanhh]

14 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

 

@hasannhh.  Lol. No hurt feelings at all. We are used to it. Back the early 50's before I was born, the dominant culture BIA types, horrified by our " communistic " lifestyle, came out and pounded on the tribal chairs' desks and told them we ought to form " business councils" and be good capitalists. So eventually many years later we did firm a " business council", and a couple of businesses, and then shared proceeds from that among the community. They leave us alone now. We are hopeless. I think Sweden still ranks above the US on livability indexes.

Leftie, l remember seeing the film  of HUAC hearings doing the anti-communist diatribes.

The difference between your writings and mine is that you are relating this discussion's aspect to tribal conditions which are not comparable to industrial level socialist oppression.