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The real slogan of the shia's is...

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Ahsant. No need for the last line you mentioned. There are thousands of hadith that we Shia do not know about. Every new day is a day of  learning. I wonder what would be the slogan of Imam Al Mahdi AS? "Ya Tharatal Hussain" may be!!

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Well you know that they would just say that as Allah describes Imam 'Ali as being the self of the Prophet, Ya Muhammad is the same as Ya 'Ali, you can choose which ever one you want, they will go down that line or argumentation and start talking about tawassul, the usual doing anything but address the issue at hand.

However, this has been discussed before - I could be wrong about this, so best double check - but the 'ya' used is not a harf al-nida' (particle of invoking - when you call someone, as you would say O Zayd), rather it is another particle, so the final vowel would be Ya Muhammada, not Ya Muhammadu as if you were calling him.

This can be backed up by the words of Allah, when He said:

لَّا تَجْعَلُوا دُعَاءَ الرَّسُولِ بَيْنَكُمْ كَدُعَاءِ بَعْضِكُم بَعْضًا

Make not the calling of the Messenger among yourselves like your calling one of another (24:63)

Regarding this verse, al-Fayd al-Kashani in Tafsir al-Safi says:

وعن الباقر عليه السلام قال يقول لا تقولوا يا محمد ولا يا أبا القاسم لكن قولوا يا نبي الله ويا رسول الله

From al-Baqir, peace be upon him, he said: Do not say O Muhammad, nor O Aba al-Qasim, rather you (should) say O Prophet of Allah or O Messenger of Allah

To be honest, I'm surprised that the 'Ya 'Ali' crowd who believe that he is all-hearing have the audacity to address him by his first name, is that what they would do if they were really addressing him? Which narrations taught them that this was the correct way to address their Imam, peace be upon him. I think that it just goes to show the extent to which even they haven't really thought about what they are saying.

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ تَعَالَوْا إِلَىٰ مَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ وَإِلَى الرَّسُولِ قَالُوا حَسْبُنَا مَا وَجَدْنَا عَلَيْهِ آبَاءَنَا أَوَلَوْ كَانَ آبَاؤُهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ شَيْئًا وَلَا يَهْتَدُونَ

And when it is said to them, Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger, they say: That on which we found our fathers is sufficient for us. What! even though their fathers knew nothing and did not follow the right way. (5:104)

صدق الله العظيم

 

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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1 hour ago, Ali_Hussain said:

To be honest, I'm surprised that the 'Ya 'Ali' crowd who believe that he is all-hearing have the audacity to address him by his first name, is that what they would do if they were really addressing him? Which narrations taught them that this was the correct way to address their Imam, peace be upon him. I think that it just goes to show the extent to which even they haven't really thought about what they are saying.

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ تَعَالَوْا إِلَىٰ مَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ وَإِلَى الرَّسُولِ قَالُوا حَسْبُنَا مَا وَجَدْنَا عَلَيْهِ آبَاءَنَا أَوَلَوْ كَانَ آبَاؤُهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ شَيْئًا وَلَا يَهْتَدُونَ

And when it is said to them, Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger, they say: That on which we found our fathers is sufficient for us. What! even though their fathers knew nothing and did not follow the right way. (5:104)

Ma Sha Allah! Very sad to see that calling the name of our Imam has become the pagan tradition. 

Before quoting this verse to us, I wish you would have seen the earlier verse as well.

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 103:

مَا جَعَلَ اللَّهُ مِن بَحِيرَةٍ وَلَا سَائِبَةٍ وَلَا وَصِيلَةٍ وَلَا حَامٍ وَلَٰكِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا يَفْتَرُونَ عَلَى اللَّهِ الْكَذِبَ وَأَكْثَرُهُمْ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ

Allah has not ordained (the making of) a bahirah or a saibah or a wasilah or a hami but those who disbelieve fabricate a lie against Allah, and most of them do not understand.

(English - Shakir)

Please let us know exactly, Ya Ali Madad looks to you like bahira or saibah or a wasilah? 

@Ali_Hussain, thank you for mentioning all this, on behalf of us. May Almighty give you its reward.

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2 hours ago, QuranandAhlulbayt said:

YA MUHAMMED!

H 8236, Ch. 16, h 1 [Al Kafi, V5]
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn abu Nasr from Mu‘awiyah ibn ‘Ammar who has said the following:
“Abu ‘Abd Allah,  ‘Alayhi al-Salam, has said that our slogan on the day Badr was, ‘O victory of Allah,come close! come close!’
 The slogan of Muslims on the day of ‘Uhud was, ‘O victory of Allah, come close!’
On the day of banu al-Nadir it was, ‘O Holy Spirit, bring comfort!’
On the day of banu Qaynaqa‘ it was, ‘O our Lord, no one is able to defeat You!’
On the day of Taef it was, ‘O Ridwan! (name of a certain angel)’
 Our slogan on the day of Hunayn was, ‘O banu ‘Abd Allah! O banu ‘Abd Allah!’
On the day of al-Ahzab it was, ‘Ha Mim, They cannot see!’
On the day of banu Quraydah it was, ‘O Peace Giver, make them surrender!’
On the day of al-Muraysi‘ which is also called the day of banu al-Mustliq it was, ‘Is the matter not in the hands of Allah!’
On the day of al-Hudaybiyah it was, ‘May Allah condemn the unjust!’
On the day of al-Khaybar, also called the day of al-Qamus it was, ‘O Ali, come upon them from on high!’
On the day of victory it was, ‘We are the servants of Allah, indeed, indeed!’
On the day of Tabuk it was, ‘O the One! O self-sufficient!’
On the day of banu al-Maluh it was, ‘Higher, higher!’
 On the day of Siffin it was, ‘O Assistance of Allah!’
The slogan of al- Husayn,  ‘Alayhi al-Salam , was, ‘O Muhammad!’ Our slogan is, ‘O Muhammad!’

The slogans of Shia are very clear in this hadith. I have highlighted for my understanding.

 

Edited by skyweb1987

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3 minutes ago, mesbah said:

Ali is one of Allah's Names, like al-Ali al-Azim

Ali in that slogan is Allah's name, not Imam Ali pbuh

:) ok, but what about this:

3 hours ago, QuranandAhlulbayt said:

On the day of banu al-Nadir it was, ‘O Holy Spirit, bring comfort!’
On the day of banu Qaynaqa‘ it was, ‘O our Lord, no one is able to defeat You!’
On the day of Taef it was, ‘O Ridwan! (name of a certain angel)’
 Our slogan on the day of Hunayn was, ‘O banu ‘Abd Allah! O banu ‘Abd Allah!’

On the day of al-Ahzab it was, ‘Ha Mim, They cannot see!’

Every thing you're ready to accept, except the name of Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s). Why????

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19 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

May i get the evidence for such interpretation in the light of Arabic text of hadith please?

 

I don't have any evidence.

Do you have evidence for your interpretation? 

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20 hours ago, Engineer73 said:

:) ok, but what about this:

Every thing you're ready to accept, except the name of Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s). Why????

I'm more than willing to accept and hear his blessed name, as the Dhikr of Ali pbuh is 'ibada, but it just didn't appear to be a "slogan" to call a fellow-worrier in your army; yes, in one occasion or two during the battle, all Muslims might have called him cheering him or whatever, but not an slogan. I don't know.

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18 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Saying "Ya Muhammad" is okay per the OP and  not shirk.

so i guess the problem is Ali bin Abu Talib and not calling out a personality.

Does it mean calling Ali ibne Abi Yalib is problem and calling any other personality is not a problem?

 

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On 15/04/2017 at 8:50 PM, mesbah said:

Ali is one of Allah's Names, like al-Ali al-Azim

Ali in that slogan is Allah's name, not Imam Ali pbuh

Well spotted brother, I checked al-Majlisi's commentary in Mirat al-'Uqul, he doesn't clarify this point, however there are other indications that you might be right, the names of Allah have been used a slogan in other battles and the definitive article was dropped (in the Arabic of this same narration).

Because in Arabic, when the 'particle of evocation' yaa' is used, the definite article is dropped, so if you were calling on al-Rahman, you would say Ya Rahman, and so if you are calling on al-'Ali you would say Ya 'Ali etc.

There is a short explanation here

Example from hadith are:

ويوم بني قريظة (يا سلام أسلمهم)

And (on) the day of Bani Qarizha (it was) Ya Salam make them submit

هُوَ اللَّـهُ الَّذِي لَا إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ الْمَلِكُ الْقُدُّوسُ السَّلَامُ الْمُؤْمِنُ الْمُهَيْمِنُ الْعَزِيزُ الْجَبَّارُ الْمُتَكَبِّرُ ۚ سُبْحَانَ اللَّـهِ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ

He is God; there is no god but He. He is the King, the All-holy, the All-peaceable, the All-faithful, the All-preserver, the All-mighty, the All-compeller, the All-sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! (59:23)

However, I think that the strongest proof that you are right in the context of the call, let's look at Khaybar:

khaybar.jpg

The fort was situated on a mountain, why would they call have been on Imam 'Ali, peace be upon him, to come down from on high? It doesn't make any logical sense.

It would be interesting to see what proof these people would bring to back up their point that it is referring to Imam 'Ali, peace be upon him.

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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Surah Al-Anfal, Verse 72:

وَإِنِ اسْتَنصَرُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ فَعَلَيْكُمُ النَّصْرُ إِلَّا عَلَىٰ قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُم مِّيثَاقٌ وَاللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ

and if they seek aid from you in the matter of religion, aid is incumbent on you except against a people between whom and you there is a treaty, and Allah sees what you do.

(English - Shakir)

Why Allah (s.w.t) making the help incumbent on Prophet (pbuh)? Allah would have said here, ask me for help, I will help you. Like He also has made incumbent on Himself to help the believers.

Surah Ar-Room, Verse 47:

وَكَانَ حَقًّا عَلَيْنَا نَصْرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ

and helping the believers is ever incumbent on Us.

(English - Shakir)

 

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2 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

Does it mean calling Ali ibne Abi Yalib is problem and calling any other personality is not a problem?

 

I have tried to permanently fix their objections. May the Almighty Allah & the Ahlul Bayt (a.s) accept this effort.

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49 minutes ago, Cool said:

Surah Al-Anfal, Verse 72:

وَإِنِ اسْتَنصَرُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ فَعَلَيْكُمُ النَّصْرُ إِلَّا عَلَىٰ قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُم مِّيثَاقٌ وَاللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ

and if they seek aid from you in the matter of religion, aid is incumbent on you except against a people between whom and you there is a treaty, and Allah sees what you do.

(English - Shakir)

Why Allah (s.w.t) making the help incumbent on Prophet (pbuh)? Allah would have said here, ask me for help, I will help you. Like He also has made incumbent on Himself to help the believers.

Surah Ar-Room, Verse 47:

وَكَانَ حَقًّا عَلَيْنَا نَصْرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ

and helping the believers is ever incumbent on Us.

(English - Shakir)

 

Even though you tried to cut the verse to remove the context, the verse still doesn't say what you are saying:

and if they seek aid from you in the matter of religion, aid is incumbent on you except against a people between whom and you there is a treaty, and Allah sees what you do.

The full verse is:

Indeed, those who have believed and emigrated and fought with their wealth and lives in the cause of Allah and those who gave shelter and aided - they are allies of one another. But those who believed and did not emigrate - for you there is no guardianship of them until they emigrate. And if they seek help of you for the religion, then you must help, except against a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty. And Allah is Seeing of what you do. (8:72)

 

But 10/10 for academic integrity, bravo.

 

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1 minute ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Even though you tried to cut the verse to remove the context, the verse still doesn't say what you are saying:

and if they seek aid from you in the matter of religion, aid is incumbent on you except against a people between whom and you there is a treaty, and Allah sees what you do.

I have mentioned the verse #, so I hope it is not supposed to be intellectual dishonesty.

Now regarding with the red area of your quote, I would like to ask you to define the scope of religion in our life.

Our every breath needs religion, isn't it!

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20 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

and if they seek aid from you in the matter of religion

Central idea of the scope of religion in one's life can be understood from the following verse:

Surah Al-Anaam, Verse 162:

قُلْ إِنَّ صَلَاتِي وَنُسُكِي وَمَحْيَايَ وَمَمَاتِي لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ

Say. Surely my prayer and my sacrifice and my life and my death are (all) for Allah, the Lord of the worlds;

(English - Shakir)

:) I hope that now you can review your thoughts regarding the point raised by me in verse 8:72

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4 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

Does it mean calling Ali ibne Abi Yalib is problem and calling any other personality is not a problem?

 

That's my guess about what the OP is alluding too.

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On 4/15/2017 at 11:18 PM, Engineer73 said:

I think this has been purposely missed or ignored by many. 

In the light of Arabic text of hadith the following names been used in the slogans:

 يَا رِضْوَانُ :  The name of angel (as per OP)

يَا بَنِي عَبْدِ اللهَِّ : ‘O Clan of Abdullah

يَا مُحَمَّدُ:  O Muhammad saww (The name of the prophet )

يَا عَلِيُّ  : ‘O Ali (The name of Imam Ali)

These are valid evidences from the text of hasan hadith that the name of Imam Ali has been used as slogan in addition to the name of the prophet saww.

wasalam

Edited by skyweb1987

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What is said here and new information is produced is helpful to us laypeople.

My question is the perception is that OP does not believe it to be as "Ya Muhammad(peace be upon him and his Progeny) Madad/Adkrani/Help/Assist ? 

Just a Slogan, but what does it mean to her/him?

Is she/he saying don't say Ya Ali(as) say Ya Muhammad(peace be upon him and his progeny) but its not clear to me. 

Word used is Slogan: What does a Solgan mean what is its meaning and in what way is understood.

Shia's will always say Ya Ali(as), for various reason beyond the scope of this thread. One of the reason is its protects Ya Muhammad(peace be upon him and his progeny). Its protects Laa ilaaha illallah.

Also what was the reason for Mawla Husayn(as) to use this Call- what was the message he (as) was delivering to them and us ?  Who was fighting Mawla Husayn(as) what was their belief?

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