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In the Name of God بسم الله

Counseling/ Therapy

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j.angel

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Has anyone ever went to a counceler or therapist to talk about their feelings? Do you think it would be wrong to expose yourself and sins so you are able to feel more at-ease with yourself and lift some weight off your shoulders? 

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I have not alhamdulillah, but if I ever do I will make sure that it is not a non muslim counseler, they will never understand you and will only advise you out of their moral perspective and world view, which if you listen to will ultimately take you further away from Islam.

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2 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

not a non muslim counseler

That's true I never thought about it in the sense that their advice might be against Islam, however sometimes Muslims are the best to judge. So I'm not sure.

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4 minutes ago, j.angel said:

@Ahmad Al Ugh then what do I do :( I kind of wanted an all-out session where everything is said and case closed lol

I don't think it works like this. That would be like going into a confession box with the therapist substituting for priest. I doubt if that would help.

If it's a matter of getting it off the chest, then perhaps speak to a dear friend (if any) who understands you.

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37 minutes ago, j.angel said:

Wouldn't have considered talking to a stranger if I had another option :)

Just be careful for revealing sins cause revealing them intentionally is haram. Maybe except in cases of necessity but one should double check with their marja on those specific cases.

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3 minutes ago, Al Hadi said:

revealing sins cause revealing them intentionally is haram

I thought this is in the cases of a potential marriage suitor, friends, family, anyone who can spread the information or judge you. Never really thought this was meant for therapists... there is only so much one can keep to himself. We're only human.

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2 minutes ago, j.angel said:

I thought this is in the cases of a potential marriage suitor, friends, family, anyone who can spread the information or judge you. Never really thought this was meant for therapists... there is only so much one can keep to himself. We're only human.

Hmm you might be right ask you marja's office. I said some cases for example one is a drug addict who needs help I would imagine this is a case that's allowed. Maybe even to prevent future sins or may be allowed but double check i may be wrong.

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2 minutes ago, j.angel said:

.......... Right.

I'm actually being serious. Would you rather open up to a stranger that probably doesn't care, or your own mother who would die for you? A close friend of mine hid all their problems from their mother and a giant problem way worse occured as the result. Take this advice. You won't regret it.

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

I have not alhamdulillah, but if I ever do I will make sure that it is not a non muslim counseler, they will never understand you and will only advise you out of their moral perspective and world view, which if you listen to will ultimately take you further away from Islam.

^ this advice by brothet IbnSina is key. 

I would never advise any one to go to a non Muslim counsellor. Ever. I have seen the outcome and it is very dangerous. You will open up paths you didn't know, and it could lead you to move away from religion. 

If you want to see a counsellor, then see a Muslim one. And obviously a lady one. 

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30 minutes ago, j.angel said:

Everyone's parents are different. Some things you just can't say to a mother. Some problems include my mother. I just prefer it's someone I don't know and who's face i'll never see again lol.

I see. Overall I hope the outcome is good, I will remember you in my prayers.

ws

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5 hours ago, IbnSina said:

I have not alhamdulillah, but if I ever do I will make sure that it is not a non muslim counseler, they will never understand you and will only advise you out of their moral perspective and world view, which if you listen to will ultimately take you further away from Islam.

Not true at all.

The best counselors, who understood my disorder and thought process, were non Muslim.

They do not try to take you further from Islam - they give you a different perspective and how to rewire your negativistic ways. EX: I hate my life. Into: Showing gratitude for the journey you are on and knowing you're making small changes for the better. "Although I'm not where I would like to be, life is beautiful."

Therapists are not to give you religious advice. You want religious advice, see a sheikh.

OP: attend therapy - you won't regret it.

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i would never give out my secrets to people I don't trust. I don't even trust my friends with my secrets. Maybe my wife, mother and father get some of them, but even they don't get all from me.

Giving people information about you and knowledge, opens doors their manipulation. Knowledge is power and why give somebody power over you, when you don't even know what's in their hearts?

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let me give you an example of what usually happens:

1 - you 'open up' and feel open, softer, vulnerable. you spill your beans, share your secrets, your weaknesses, while the person you talk to does not do the same. And even if they did, you wouldn't be able to trust them. In the meantime you can be sure that therapist is doing it for the money, or for God-knows-what motive.

2 - the councillor/shrink starts to give you 'advice' and 'guidance'. After all that is the definition of counseling. Now that you are totally open and let your guard down, you are emotionally totally vulnerable, and will most likely be influenced by whatever they say or don't say. There are even messages between the lines that they can send you without you even knowing. 

3 - next step is that you will alter your life, which includes relations with other people, outlooks, paradigms and beliefs, based on this one person whom you don't even know. And if you know a bit about them, it still is no guarantee. However your feeling of 'release' is keeping you going and making you trust the process.

4 - your relationship with people changes, and your outlook on life just a had a shift. That is actually a spiritual change in the soul and that has an impact on your heart. The result thereof will change your behavior and reaction to situations and people. You might decide to distance yourself from certain people and get closer to others based on this strangers opinions and manipulation.

5 - you will end up doing things that you wouldn't if you hadn't met with this councilor and showed all your cards to them. At the same time you might shy away from things you would have done, but now you decided not to.

6 - this councilor will basically project their own selves and their own lives on you. They will try to make you react like them and live through the same life like them. Because after all that is all they know. There is also a high likelihood that they do not know the rules of Islam, or that they do not take them into consideration.

 

There is always a chance that this councilor is actually a good person, and will guide you in the right direction with one thing or the other, but judging from the Quran and from real life, we can be sure that 'most people do not understand'. It is very risky to say the least, and I wish you all the best.

Whatever you decide to do, never spill all your beans to anyone, and especially not to somebody who has  no solid track record of trustability in your life.

Edited by 313 Seeker
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6 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Not true at all.

The best counselors, who understood my disorder and thought process, were non Muslim.

They do not try to take you further from Islam - they give you a different perspective and how to rewire your negativistic ways. EX: I hate my life. Into: Showing gratitude for the journey you are on and knowing you're making small changes for the better. "Although I'm not where I would like to be, life is beautiful."

Therapists are not to give you religious advice. You want religious advice, see a sheikh.

OP: attend therapy - you won't regret it.

that is exactly Islam and its purpose!

Why do you think we say Alhamdulilah so many times and why the Quran basically opens with this statement. All praise to the Lord of the worlds. 

That is a religious as an advice can be. Giving praise, giving thanks where it is due. and to whom.  To God of course!

OP: Don't attend 'therapy' with somebody you don't personally know and trust such as your mom for instance. If you don't trust your mom, then seek out the person you do from within your life. Not strangers!

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46 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

that is exactly Islam and its purpose!

Why do you think we say Alhamdulilah so many times and why the Quran basically opens with this statement. All praise to the Lord of the worlds. 

That is a religious as an advice can be. Giving praise, giving thanks where it is due. and to whom.  To God of course!

OP: Don't attend 'therapy' with somebody you don't personally know and trust such as your mom for instance. If you don't trust your mom, then seek out the person you do from within your life. Not strangers!

Alhamdulilah is different from stating a different sentence and thinking differently. 

Everyone needs therapy at some point in their life because people are not professionals to understand the psychological and cognitive damanges done when people go through trauma of any kind. 

You shouldn't be even giving this harmful advice because having spiritual connection is different from therapy. 

OP: many times, people who know you well don't know how to hear you out or give you advice. Therapists, wether non-Muslim or Muslim, are trained and understand the cognitive complexities better than anybody else. Regular people will just tell you to forgive your mom and accept her, not understanding the impact she's had on you.

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2 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Alhamdulilah is different from stating a different sentence and thinking differently. 

Everyone needs therapy at some point in their life because people are not professionals to understand the psychological and cognitive damanges done when people go through trauma of any kind. 

You shouldn't be even giving this harmful advice because having spiritual connection is different from therapy. 

OP: many times, people who know you well don't know how to hear you out or give you advice. Therapists, wether non-Muslim or Muslim, are trained and understand the cognitive complexities better than anybody else. Regular people will just tell you to forgive your mom and accept her, not understanding the impact she's had on you.

The ahlulbayt didn't have "professional" - meaning for money - advice from anybody when they went through trauma like Karbala. Ahlulbayt are the champions of trauma and how to deal with it. They never took or spent money for anybody's guidance. 

If you want guidance, then take it from somebody whom you think has a good heart. Nothing else matters, and western universities and curricula don't know anything about the soul and how it operates. Just a bunch of speculations. The parts that actually work - such as gratitude and positive mental outlooks, are outlined very much in Islam. The important thing is that one should always be connected with the Creator, and give Him ones thanks and gratitude. I believe most shrinks will encourage a more self-centered outlook. They don't teach in shrink books how to find means of approach to God. - Except indirectly as mentioned. 

 

OP: Don't do it! Don't open up to anybody unless you tested them with these"

1 - travel

2 - after they are angry see if they keep their ethics straight

3 - work with them

4 - if you have lived with them

 

Even if you are sure of the above 4, still don't trust them blindly and fully. Don't give them keys to your personality and turn yourself into a puppet!

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12 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

The ahlulbayt didn't have "professional" - meaning for money - advice from anybody when they went through trauma like Karbala. Ahlulbayt are the champions of trauma and how to deal with it. They never took or spent money for anybody's guidance. 

If you want guidance, then take it from somebody whom you think has a good heart. Nothing else matters, and western universities and curricula don't know anything about the soul and how it operates. Just a bunch of speculations. The parts that actually work - such as gratitude and positive mental outlooks, are outlined very much in Islam. The important thing is that one should always be connected with the Creator, and give Him ones thanks and gratitude. I believe most shrinks will encourage a more self-centered outlook. They don't teach in shrink books how to find means of approach to God. - Except indirectly as mentioned. 

 

OP: Don't do it! Don't open up to anybody unless you tested them with these"

1 - travel

2 - after they are angry see if they keep their ethics straight

3 - work with them

4 - if you have lived with them

 

Even if you are sure of the above 4, still don't trust them blindly and fully. Don't give them keys to your personality and turn yourself into a puppet!

A puppet? That makes no sense. 

You need to connect with your Creator, yes, but you also need to seek out treatment if you have problems or an illness. Allah has sent down a cure for every disease and it is up to us to find the cure, or else we may be questioned on why we didn't. 

 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors
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8 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

A puppet? That makes no sense. 

You need to connect with your Creator, yes, but you also need to seek out treatment if you have problems or an illness. Allah has sent down a cure for every disease and it is up to us to find the cure, or else we may be questioned on why we didn't. 

 

knowledge is power. give them knowledge about you, they have power over you.

Cure? for sure! It can be in form of prayer, fasting, charity, better diet, ideally naturally growing drugs, etc etc, administered and guided by a trusted person who is closer to God, with a good heart .. confirmed by thorough track record and testing.

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18 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

knowledge is power. give them knowledge about you, they have power over you.

Cure? for sure! It can be in form of prayer, fasting, charity, better diet, ideally naturally growing drugs, etc etc, administered and guided by a trusted person who is closer to God, with a good heart .. confirmed by thorough track record and testing.

Don't try to shame people who want to attend counseling or therapy or take medications. 

You didn't understand what I meant by "cure". If you have thoughts of suicide, for example, it is due to a chemical imbalance in the brain and you need medication. 

Sorry, but that's the way it is. 

 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors
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7 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Don't try to shame people who want to attend counseling or therapy or take medications. 

You didn't understand what I meant by "cure". If you have thoughts of suicide, for example, it is due to a chemical imbalance in the brain and you need medication. 

Sorry, but that's the way it is. 

 

i am not trying to shame them, i am trying to protect them.

according to Islam our negative thoughts are from whispering of jinn and human devils. And the cure is the Allah. no shame in that.

Now that's the way it is! no need to apologize for that. 

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Here are two cures for suicidal thoughts:

https://quran.com/113

https://quran.com/114

and of course repeat this one many times

https://quran.com/1

 

here is probably the best cure for me:

https://www.duas.org/tasbihzehra.htm

 

This way we keep those thoughts away, and change them via positive brainwash into positive thoughts and joy of living.

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57 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Regular people will just tell you to forgive your mom and accept her, not understanding the impact she's had on you.

That's exactly the sort of response I see on this forum whenever someone posts about their parents upsetting them. That they can do nothing about it and that's how religion is and you have to accept it. 

As a human, when we're constantly forced to do something we start to not like it. If I had to put up (or if anyone did, especially a revert) with abuse and "just take it" because that's how Islam is, then they might not be interested in the religion anymore. 

Plus, Sheikh's are in their 40s and what not. They're not going to understand what a teenage girl is going through. Everyone's answer is "get married" as if it simply involves submitting my resume to guys and having them choose.

If there is such a worry with Non Muslim counselors, I know many who are Christian, and many who don't find it ethical to even bring God into the session. I'm not looking for advice such as "move out of your mom's house you're over 18 you don't need her" but advice such as when your mom is raging at you, hold your breath for as long as you can so you can't say anything hurtful, or draw pictures to express your feelings. Something like that.

I've already tried the whole "pray for God to help you" thing. I need a solution here and now to help me. I'm a human and I can't bottle in my feelings.

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1 minute ago, j.angel said:

I've already tried the whole "pray for God to help you" thing. I need a solution here and now to help me. I'm a human and I can't bottle in my feelings.

don't give up on this one. it's the only real cure. just add some patience to it and it'll be fine. Life is a test that is soon over. suffering is a must

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7 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

according to Islam our negative thoughts are from whispering of jinn and human devils. And the cure is the Allah. no shame in that.

This isn't necessary to post but I felt that sharing that last year I lost someone who I really loved (they passed away) and despite the praying, I found myself crying every single day. 3 months later I wanted a change, I just couldn't keep living on like that and praying was not helping in ANY way! So I was prescribe medication that would basically prevent me from feeling sad in the first place. I took those for about a month and it solved the problem. Sometimes we just need a little push to put us in the right direction because we can't do that ourselves. 

Seeking religious advice at the time I only heard "pray" "pray for him" "read Quran for him" and let me tell you none of that helped as much as the medicine which is what I needed.

Now Im not saying people should be taking medicine for every little thing, but sometimes we (especially people like me who are young) don't know how to deal with sadness and stress and need to find therapy before they go into the wrong direction. I'd rather find someone to talk to than turn to drugs or alcohol to relieve my stress, right? 

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sister feeling sad is the best thing that can happen to you. embrace it and don't try to suppress it. know that it will pass. and don't ever take drugs unless you have to, and unless you are sure what you are taking. Don't take pills where you don't know what is in them. Those pills were made for profit and more foul intentions than that. I would definitely advice talking about it, but with people you trust and know personally from personal experience. At the same time I would suggest things like working out and sweating it out. Move and keep moving. But those drugs can be very addictive and impossible to break free from. The grieving period is great and don't dumb it down or miss the opportunity. Crying for ahlulbayt is great, and crying for anybody you love is great too. My mom whom I love more than anybody on earth ever passed away last year, so I can feel the same thing. It passes and it makes you a stronger person. A better person,

Imam Ali said that if people knew the benefits of suffering, they would cut themselves up with scissors. Please don't take that hadith literally. But no pain no gain.

Allah test us in times of trouble just like times of bliss. To pass the test in times of trouble, we must show patience by still thanking God and asking Him for help more than anybody else. In times of bliss we are tested to see if we are grateful and thankful to God, even though it is easy to forget to whom the credit is due. 

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2 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Crying for ahlulbayt is great, and crying for anybody you love is great too. My mom whom I love more than anybody on earth ever passed away last year, so I can feel the same thing. It passes and it makes you a stronger person. A better person,

Some crying is ok, but crying to the point where I had an infection in my eyes and they hurt so badly I couldn't see is not something God wanted from us. In that case I felt it was appropriate to seek medication, and in the event where someone is tempted to turn to drugs/ drinking and their only solution is to seek therapy then I also think that is appropriate. At the end of the day we need to take care of our emotional health as much as we need to care about our physical and spiritual health as well. :) 

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No difference between psychological health and spiritual health. 

Prophet Jacob cried till he was blind and i dont think that was the wrong thing to do. I doubt he was 'seeking' help from others than God in matters of his mood and depression. Some of us follow the way of prophets and others follow innovations. If you can prove that the ahlulbayt allowed 'professional' help from strangers then i will be the first to do so. 

Our islamic literature is packed with stories of grief such as the one i outlined above, and we are to follow their ways in handling it and understanding it. My mom would kill herself in her grave again and again if i was to take drugs because of ny grief for her. Anybody who loves you would want you to carry on and keep to God without drugs that are like a poisonous bandaid on top of the problem.

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2 hours ago, j.angel said:

Plus, Sheikh's are in their 40s and what not. They're not going to understand what a teenage girl is going through. Everyone's answer is "get married" as if it simply involves submitting my resume to guys and having them choose.

Exactly. Sheikhs usually are not the best marriage counselors, for example, either. Their advice is usually something along the lines of, "Be patient and make dua." Not actually solving the issues or giving real solutions because it's not their expertise. A marriage counselor would know exactly what to say since he/she has studied dynamics and knows wether or not things are salvageable.

Just because Sheikhs know the religion best does not mean they know everything.  

Your answer on marriage made me lol because that is very true of the mentality here. People don't say, "Know yourself, know what you want in a partner, find someone healthy and good for you." Etc. people think that any marriage is better than no marriage at all, and then they wonder why people post about their marital issues. It's sad because people just want to get married when you need to focus on finding someone healthy and genuine and mature THEN think about marriage, not thinking if this person is your future spouse within a few hours of meeting each other.

and they talk as if people have others lined up to marry them. They think that Sunni men are only interested in getting you into bed and Shia men are so "pious, and perfect" and whatnot that you should jump into marriage without hesitation because "he's Shia - what else are you looking for? Genuine love? Honesty? Getting along well? Knowing someone before getting married Bah! No need for that he's Shia!" 

2 hours ago, j.angel said:

As a human, when we're constantly forced to do something we start to not like it. If I had to put up (or if anyone did, especially a revert) with abuse and "just take it" because that's how Islam is, then they might not be interested in the religion anymore. 

Plus, Sheikh's are in their 40s and what not. They're not going to understand what a teenage girl is going through. Everyone's answer is "get married" as if it simply involves submitting my resume to guys and having them choose.

Exactly. People don't understand by saying that Islam is what they think it is, they turn people away from religion. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors
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