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In the Name of God بسم الله

Iddah for Mutah = confusing story

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Salaam.

I'm freaking out and I can't find my answer at all so I really need your help.

So basically a couple of months ago I had a mutah with intercourse with this man I loved but few days later we ended it , 'cuz we realized we couldn't get married permanently for many reasons. So I started counting my Iddah.
Unfortunately I couldn't really understand the meaning of "two menstruation" as in two complete menstruation. But anyway I saw both periods in about 45 days total (the beginning of the second fell on the 45th/46th day, don't remember). However in the meanwhile I got interested in this other person for permanent marriage so at the very end of my second period we contracted mutah with the condition of NO intercourse. I really thought it was over cause I even did ghusl but then when I came back home there was still very very light (so imperceptible but still it was there). Therefore I contacted someone who claims to be expert in Sistani's akham and he told me that generally it is 2 periods but in certain cases just the beginning of the second might be enough. So I'm very confused now. With this new person I didn't have an intercourse as we agreed upon but we kissed/held hands... I'm freaking scared we might be haraam for each other forever according to this rule:

2409. If a person contracts Nikah with a woman who is in the Iddah of another man, and if the man and the woman both know, or any one of them knows that the Iddah of the woman has not yet come to an end, and if they also know that marrying a woman during her Iddah is haraam, that woman will become haraam for the man forever, even if after the Nikah the man may not have had sexual intercourse with her.

but here it talks about Nikah - which from my understanding is permanent marriage, right?
And also I didn't know that my Iddah was not over yet, I was quite sure it was.

Moreover at this point doubts are chasing me all over so I'm also going to ask this:
the mutah I had with intercourse with the first man was a secret, in the sense that I didn't tell anyone and I didn't ask for permission to my dad (he is not Muslim and when I became Muslim - a year ago - I wasn't virgin at the time so I thought I would be considered automatically Rashida, cause I usually don't ask my dad about these things nor he does really care since his mindset is different). Would this make the first mutah void and consequently this one in order?

Thank you for your help!

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You can still marry the man if he committed fornication with you during your iddah of temporary marriage, according to Sayed Sistani's fatwa here:

2407. If a person commits fornication with a woman who is in the Iddah of her revocable divorce, as a precaution that woman becomes haraam for him. And if he commits fornication with a woman who is in the Iddah of temporary marriage, or of irrevocable divorce, or in the Iddah of death, he can marry her afterwards, although the recommended precaution is that he should not marry her.

According to Sayed Sistani however, a women is still considered a virgin if she committed fornication. A non-virgin girl means that she had a valid consummated marriage. If you didn't lose your virginity within a valid marriage, you still remained a virgin and seeking your fathers permission for the first man you did mutah with was obligatory. 

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On 3/25/2017 at 12:31 PM, Hassan- said:

You can still marry the man if he committed fornication with you during your iddah of temporary marriage, according to Sayed Sistani's fatwa here:

2407. If a person commits fornication with a woman who is in the Iddah of her revocable divorce, as a precaution that woman becomes haraam for him. And if he commits fornication with a woman who is in the Iddah of temporary marriage, or of irrevocable divorce, or in the Iddah of death, he can marry her afterwards, although the recommended precaution is that he should not marry her.

According to Sayed Sistani however, a women is still considered a virgin if she committed fornication. A non-virgin girl means that she had a valid consummated marriage. If you didn't lose your virginity within a valid marriage, you still remained a virgin and seeking your fathers permission for the first man you did mutah with was obligatory. 

We didn't commit fornication in the sense that we both agreed to get married temporary.

But anyways in view of the above it means that the first mutah with intercourse was actually fornication and there is no iddah for that so my current mutah is valid. Am I right?

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2 hours ago, Hassan- said:

You can still marry the man if he committed fornication with you during your iddah of temporary marriage, according to Sayed Sistani's fatwa here:

2407. If a person commits fornication with a woman who is in the Iddah of her revocable divorce, as a precaution that woman becomes haraam for him. And if he commits fornication with a woman who is in the Iddah of temporary marriage, or of irrevocable divorce, or in the Iddah of death, he can marry her afterwards, although the recommended precaution is that he should not marry her.

 

According to Sayed Sistani however, a women is still considered a virgin if she committed fornication. A non-virgin girl means that she had a valid consummated marriage. If you didn't lose your virginity within a valid marriage, you still remained a virgin and seeking your fathers permission for the first man you did mutah with was obligatory. 

We didn't commit fornication in the sense that we both agreed to get married temporary.

But anyways in view of the above it means that the first mutah with intercourse was actually fornication and there is no iddah for that so my current mutah is valid. Am I right?

EDIT: actually I researched and it seems that no, since according to Sistani that ruling is based on obligatory precaution so technically it is not as strict as that like I can stick to what Fadhlallah says.

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On 3/25/2017 at 12:43 PM, moonlight_13 said:

But anyways in view of the above it means that the first mutah with intercourse was actually fornication

I don't know if it's considered fornication if you didn't obtain your father's permission. You're going to have to ask a marja on that.

On 3/25/2017 at 12:43 PM, moonlight_13 said:

there is no iddah for that so my current mutah is valid. Am I right?

There is no iddah for fornication you are right, but I'm not sure if your first mutah marriage was regarded as fornication since you thought you were not a virgin and the marriage was valid. Find out from your marja if your first mutah is considered fornication. If it was, there is no objection on marrying the second man and you don't have to worry about the iddah period. 

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11 minutes ago, moonlight_13 said:

EDIT: actually I researched and it seems that no, since according to Sistani that ruling is based on obligatory precaution so technically it is not as strict as that like I can stick to what Fadhlallah says.

What is based on obligatory caution? Obtaining your fathers permission? If that is so, than yes you can refer to the next knowledgeable marja. Ayatollah Fadlallah is deceased, and it's not allowed to act according to fatwas of deceased marjas.

Edit: Sayed Sistani says it's obligatory to seek permission of the father.

 Question: I am a virgin girl, do I need to seek my father's permission for temporary or permanent marriage?

Answer: Yes, it is necessary.
Edited by Hassan-
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On 3/25/2017 at 2:53 PM, Hassan- said:

What is based on obligatory caution? Obtaining your fathers permission? If that is so, than yes you can refer to the next knowledgeable marja. Ayatollah Fadlallah is deceased, and it's not allowed to act according to fatwas of deceased marjas.

Edit: Sayed Sistani says it's obligatory to seek permission of the father.

 Question: I am a virgin girl, do I need to seek my father's permission for temporary or permanent marriage?

Answer: Yes, it is necessary.

Yeah you are right, but I can still refer to Rohani for example. I've been told so many times that this specific rule doesn't apply to me because my father is not Muslim and I was brought up in the west so our mutual (between my father and me) understanding is different, he doesn't really care about permission or not. He gives me complete freedom.

On 3/25/2017 at 2:49 PM, Hassan- said:

I don't know if it's considered fornication if you didn't obtain your father's permission. You're going to have to ask a marja on that.

There is no iddah for fornication you are right, but I'm not sure if your first mutah marriage was regarded as fornication since you thought you were not a virgin and the marriage was valid. Find out from your marja if your first mutah is considered fornication. If it was, there is no objection on marrying the second man and you don't have to worry about the iddah period. 

I don't know either.

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16 minutes ago, moonlight_13 said:

Yeah you are right, but I can still refer to Rohani for example. I've been told so many times that this specific rule doesn't apply to me because my father is not muslim and I was brought up in the west so our mutual (between my father and me) understanding is different, he doesn't really care about permission or not. He gives me complete freedom.

You can only refer to another marja if Sayed Sistani said 'obligatory caution', but that doesn't seem the case, he said it is necessary. Now according to your situation, where your father is not Muslim and he doesn't care what you do is something you must also ask your marja.

Ask here: http://www.najaf.org/english/?#ask but keep your questions short and simple.

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39 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

You can only refer to another marja if Sayed Sistani said 'obligatory caution', but that doesn't seem the case, he said it is necessary. Now according to your situation, where your father is not Muslim and he doesn't care what you do is something you must also ask your marja.

Ask here: http://www.najaf.org/english/?#ask but keep your questions short and simple.

Thank you,  I sent them a question.

Anyway someone today told me that Sistani's ruling on Iddah for Mutah is under "obligatory precaution", so I found this on Ayatollah Alhakeem's website

What is the Iddah for the temporary marriage?

answ.gif If the temporary marriage ended during her menstruation period, she must wait for two complete cycles and her Iddah is finished when she sees blood for the third time. If the temporary marriage ends when she is not in her menses period, she should wait for one complete cycle and her Iddah is finished when she sees blood for the second time

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6 minutes ago, moonlight_13 said:

Thank you,  I sent them a question.

Anyway someone today told me that Sistani's ruling on Iddah for Mutah is under "obligatory precaution", so I found this on Ayatollah Alhakeem's website

What is the Iddah for the temporary marriage?

answ.gif If the temporary marriage ended during her menstruation period, she must wait for two complete cycles and her Iddah is finished when she sees blood for the third time. If the temporary marriage ends when she is not in her menses period, she should wait for one complete cycle and her Iddah is finished when she sees blood for the second time

I don't think Sistani says obligatory percaution.

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16 minutes ago, moonlight_13 said:

what do you think I should do now? tell the guy to forgive the remaining time and re-do it as I'm sure I'm 100% pak from my period? will it be valid?

Re-do it with your intention to be cautious and on the safe side but it's best you wait till you get your answers from your marja. 

Edited by Hassan-
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1 hour ago, Hassan- said:

You can only refer to another marja if Sayed Sistani said 'obligatory caution', but that doesn't seem the case, he said it is necessary. Now according to your situation, where your father is not Muslim and he doesn't care what you do is something you must also ask your marja.

Ask here: http://www.najaf.org/english/?#ask but keep your questions short and simple.

No father's permission is not necessary if he is a nonmuslim. Non Muslims don't have wikalah over muslim girls regardless of independence or not this is in sistani's Arabic minhaj. So if she is a revert or something she is fine without father's permission for sure.

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1 hour ago, Al Hadi said:

No father's permission is not necessary if he is a nonmuslim. Non Muslims don't have wikalah over muslim girls regardless of independence or not this is in sistani's Arabic minhaj. So if she is a revert or something she is fine without father's permission for sure.

Can you show me a reference to that brother? I'm not too familiar with Sayed Sistani's rulings, only Imam Khamenei's rulings.

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20 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

Can you show me a reference to that brother? I'm not too familiar with Sayed Sistani's rulings, only Imam Khamenei's rulings.

I asked a shaykh on WhatsApp problem is i deleted WhatsApp. If I knew Arabic I could go through it. But for sure this is what he told me. There was a topic on it here even.

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On 3/25/2017 at 11:51 AM, moonlight_13 said:

Salaam.

I'm freaking out and I can't find my answer at all so I really need your help.

So basically a couple of months ago I had a mutah with intercourse with this man I loved but few days later we ended it , 'cuz we realized we couldn't get married permanently for many reasons. So I started counting my Iddah.
Unfortunately I couldn't really understand the meaning of "two menstruation" as in two complete menstruation. But anyway I saw both periods in about 45 days total (the beginning of the second fell on the 45th/46th day, don't remember). However in the meanwhile I got interested in this other person for permanent marriage so at the very end of my second period we contracted mutah with the condition of NO intercourse. I really thought it was over cause I even did ghusl but then when I came back home there was still very very light (so imperceptible but still it was there). Therefore I contacted someone who claims to be expert in Sistani's akham and he told me that generally it is 2 periods but in certain cases just the beginning of the second might be enough. So I'm very confused now. With this new person I didn't have an intercourse as we agreed upon but we kissed/held hands... I'm freaking scared we might be haraam for each other forever according to this rule:

2409. If a person contracts Nikah with a woman who is in the Iddah of another man, and if the man and the woman both know, or any one of them knows that the Iddah of the woman has not yet come to an end, and if they also know that marrying a woman during her Iddah is haraam, that woman will become haraam for the man forever, even if after the Nikah the man may not have had sexual intercourse with her.

but here it talks about Nikah - which from my understanding is permanent marriage, right?
And also I didn't know that my Iddah was not over yet, I was quite sure it was.

Moreover at this point doubts are chasing me all over so I'm also going to ask this:
the mutah I had with intercourse with the first man was a secret, in the sense that I didn't tell anyone and I didn't ask for permission to my dad (he is not Muslim and when I became Muslim - a year ago - I wasn't virgin at the time so I thought I would be considered automatically Rashida, cause I usually don't ask my dad about these things nor he does really care since his mindset is different). Would this make the first mutah void and consequently this one in order?

Thank you for your help!

@Hassan-

Well your first mutah was valid as a non Muslim doesn’t have wilayat over a Muslim girl according to Sayed Sistani (ha). This is according to one of my teachers who can give you a source if need be.

your second mutah doesn’t seem to be a problem either even according to that ruling you quoted. You said it yourself you didn’t know and thought it was over so that itself should cover you. 

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